I know this has been discussed before, in particular the recent threads about charging extra for unscented phero’s… but I’m now even more confused
I understand that phero’s are heavy molecules and that combining them with carrier molecules such as neroli helps give optimal diffusion. But I thought that ANY carrier molecule or scent would do that? I have a few unscented P’s that I sometimes use with my own perfume ontop, other times I don’t use any regular perfume as cover scent…
In the thread about charging extra for unscented Steve said the following;
*Now Androtics is thinking wow this might be some really good stuff, but we only have enough to make about 100 more bottles. About 30 are picked up by new users thinking they will get the same type of results as spraying Instant Shine or Turn Up The Heat (Turn Up the Heat – Sensual Pheromone Spray Cologne for Men - Alpha A314) . They don’t take into consideration that this is a raw molecule that is unknown and might not be all that easy to test.
We used to charge about $3 to scent it with Neroli so trying to save a few bucks they get it unscented. Then we have about 50 users who have some experience but a few of them want to mix and match. Then some others like there own colognes. All gone at this stage.
Then we have the members who saved a few bucks and got it unscented and never capitalized on the results because it never diffused properly. There was nothing to get the molecule working so others would be affected.
Then there are the more experienced users who decided to use it with colognes that can be bought in a store. Since we cant duplicate those colognes that research is completely useless to us. *
So does that mean that reports where I wear my own perfume as cover is totally useless in terms of research data? And the ones where I used an unscented Putative but no cover scent? I don’t always state iin my reports whether I used a regular perfume as cover scent or not… should I be doing that?
Now I don’t mind getting all my MX’s and P’s in neroli, (I quite like the scent so I’ve kept out of the discussions about pricing)… but can someone tell me what I should or shouldn’t do in regards to using my own perfumes when testing? I don’t want my results to be useless in the data collection…
Yes, Glad to see this as I had a question as well for diffusion. I have some musk products that all I need is one tiny swipe of the plastic swiper as to some colognes I use 2 or 3 sprays.
Now that tiny swipe is very powerful. The musk scent is really strong and diffuses really well, but dosen’t directly cover all the phero app. spots. So does the musks carry the pheromones out in the air or not?
I am sorry I missed this, Thanks Tigerlilly for giving me a heads up.
First let me say that any Data you report on a mix or putative is much appreciated. Its helps the other members of the forum as well as points out some useful information to the research team.
No all scents will not do this. The reason neroli was used is because of its diffusive properties. Basically, the fixatives and highly diffusive molecules are found in the scent package, which then bind to pheromones and regulate the rate and path of dispersion. Now because the fixative is found in the scent pack and not in the pheromone formula when you get unscented and use your own cologne they have no way of knowing exactly how diffusive it was or if the scent binded with the mones. We are finding that many new members are not able to pick up on anything from the putatives and mixes and later find out they were using unscented. Now when those reports come in there is no way to know if the molecule is actually not acting as a putative or if its not diffusing off the body. When they use the neroli scent pack they know for sure its diffusing and if people dont see results they know for sure if the putative is acting as a pheromone.
Another reason neroli was chosen is because they know that people want to use there own scents sometimes. Neroli blends with just about anything. Foody scents, Musky scents, florals. It dosnt alter the cover scent. Many perfumers use it, not as part of the scent but because it is so diffusive and can create more sillage (vapor trial) for there perfume formulas. Sillage is important, it carries the mones around the targets and gently creates that pull to you.
It hides the pheromone scent well with out being over bearing. Neroli drys down light and fresh. People can get away with wearing it in places perfume is not allowed more often then other perfumes.
So as MHarris as told us many times …
Totally useless no but useless in the sense that they can not use the information to make a mix for the smartmones store. The data is still collected for the advancement of mone technology though.
However one of the big things members ask for here is “more” … more mixes to try more consumer products to use and they cant give more if they do not have the information needed to create a product sold with the neroli scent fixative they have invested in and plan to use.
Now this is what they ask for and are giving the testing discount price for. Think of it in phases …
When in testing Phase 1…
Always get either neroli or the light neroli cover scent. They have both options. For those who think the regular strength neroli is to heavy the light one will still act as a fixative and diffuse well. However it may not cover the mone smell.
Always test the mix or putative on its own with out using other mones with it. Generally it can take a whole to-go bottle of testing before you get a good feel for everything the mix or putative has to offer. be sure to at least use half the bottle on its own before you begin to layer If your layering to quickly we dont know what effects are coming from the test mix and what are coming from the othr products you layered on. Save layering for Phase 2 of testing.
Test it without cover at first and report on that. Make them aware your not using cover but the neroli scent pack.
Phase 2 of testing…
After you have reported and have a good feel for what reactions the mix or putative is evoking you can cover it with cologne if you choose to and report on that. Again make them aware you are using a neroli scented product covered by your own cologne. The neroli is still present even if covered so this is fine and still used.
You can also report on layering them with other Androtic products.
Phase 3 testing …
Once you have tested and reported on a product and get consistent results if you want to get unscented its your option but they will not offer the lower discount testing price. This also keeps new members who jump right into testing putatives from buying unscented giving them a better chance to be successful testers of the products. A lot of new users have been moving quickly into buying advanced products and ending up disappointed because they were just not ready to go there. The rule of thumb used to be a year of consumer mone use before using the advanced and becoming part of the test group. That has changed and using neroli gives the new tester a better chance at seeing results and giving useful data.
Reporting unscented is still useful, just in different ways. The other members who opt for unscented get a feel for how the molecule works with different scents. Androtics discover if the molecule is diffusive on its own or its a molecule that stays close to the body. Some molecules such as P79 have been discovered to be highly diffusive on there own and this was partly learned by members reporting.
Some musks will, some wont, If your using unscented you want to cover the mones with your scent. If your using neroli you can apply the musk anywhere and diffusion will occer. Its part of my point though. We dont know if your scent cover is diffusing because we are not testing your scent cover. If you have experience with mones and are using unscented you should be able to determine that especially if you followed the test phases above and know what to expect from the product first.
So they are not saying never use your own musk or scent because it will not work at all. When choosing a scent cover choose something diffusive with good sillige but understand that the mones molecule may not act the same with that scent cover the it did with the neroli.
…
You can always write the Phase of testing your in at the top of your report for your own reference and to help the research. You dont have to do this though. We know people have there own styles when it comes to reporting and want them to be open and free to express themselves there own ways.
Remember the whole premise of the “Instant” line is for hard hitting, fast acting results. This is the whole reason they invested so much in the neroli scent package. This is how Michael designs them so that mone users see results. They know for sure that mones do work. He is a perfectionist and will not release anything until he is sure it can carry the “Instant” name and standard.
Think of it this way. If you were creating a new smoothie drink to sell to the public and it was flavored Strawberry cherry vanilla thats what you would test. You wouldn’t have everyone test apple pear vanilla even if its a tasty drink. Its just not what you plan to use or sell.
I’m all eared or may i say all eyed. Got a very good inside from ur explaination Tisha.
Hmm. I’ve also learned from there that p79 diffuse greatly by itself. Which is good. But let me test all the consumer line 1st . Although i’d love to jump at the chance of mx292 and the Raw Power package given the chance, some other none product cos Ammo kinda dont work like the hit hard act fast type of results not even subtle, I’ll still pretty much be testing the consumer series 1st.
Well I dont have specific test data on this but in my experience and those I know who have tried it it slows diffusion with both scented and unscented.
If you apply lotion before the mones and let it absorb into the skin its fine and dosnt seem to effect diffusion.
If you apply lotion on top of the mones it slows diffusion and the hits tend to be more mild. I believe this is because the molecules in the lotion are heavier then the mone molecules and weigh them down more.
This is the same with oil based scents and mones. They are very slow to diffuse so the concentration of mones in them should be higher then they would be with alcohol carriers to see the same results. This is why when I make a oil mix like Vavoom I went so high with the mones.
Now sometimes what I like to do with lotion is put a blob in my palm and put a few drops of EOW or some other mone I am wearing in it and slather it on. I will get a longer more mild effect from this. Then what ever mones I used in that blob I will apply separately as well cutting my normal dose slightly to account for what I used in the blob of lotion.
I feel this gives a longer lasting effect for me and works well in most climates. This is my personal preference though and not a application method Androtics has endorsed. It will fall under Phase 3 reporting.
Maybe using the phase # at the top of reports will help at least on advanced reporting users reports. I will ask Steve what he thinks and we can encourge it if he approves. It will help the members to when reading all the info in the forum.
On an aside - I thought I read once that Neroli and Cookie/Chocoatini scents were available “a la carte” to spray as a cologne or scent… is this not true? I couldn’t find them at the store except as scent additives to a phero as you purchase it. I have some unscented putatives that I want to now mix with the AD scents.
You can get the neroli, if you buy a 30ml bottle (under Mixing Supplies) and choose Perfumer’s Alcohol w/ light neroli or PA w/ cologne strength neroli.
I’ve asked about getting the other fragrances in a post in the Store Announcements section, but no one answered. I should PM Steve and ask.
