Pheromone Evaporation : Top, Middle, Base?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Maybe we should categorise products, pheromone/putatives based on their perceived evaporation rate & tenacity? Could be useful in gauging which mones need to top-up or let roll over?

Below are those chemset & products which I’ve used regularly & recently (Androtics), in a South East Asian country (humid + hot).

Please indicate “notes” category according to your standard/successful dosage (i.e. non-OD) & country/weather.

TOP notes (evaporate fastest, finishes quickly) (lasts no more than 2.5 hours)
pheromone : ANOL, BNOL, EST, P74, TAC
product : IO, IS, LT

MIDDLE notes (evaporate slower) (2.5 - 4.0 hours)
pheromone : Meo-EST, TAH, TAL
product : IH, WAGG

BASE (evaporates slowest, last longest) (longer than 4 hours)
pheromone : NONE, A1
product : A314 (oil)

I’m interested in the longevity of Androtics copulins & none products also (Ammo, TUTH, LAM, iSexi, IFM etc). Would the ladies & other users comment as well? Thanks.

Unsure if molecular weight plays a part?

Molecular Weight
METHANOL 32.04
ETHANOL 46.07
PROPYLENE GLYCOL 76.09
DI-PROPYLENE GLYCOL 134.17
EST-NOL 256.38
EQUILIN 268.35
EST 268.36
ESTRONE 270.37
A1 270.41
B-ESTRADIOL 272.38
A-ESTRADIOL 272.39
TENONE 272.43
TANONE 274.44
ANOL 274.44
BNOL 274.44
ESTRIOL 288.38
DHEA 288.42
A-RONE 290.44
B-RONE 290.44
PREGNENOLONE 316.48

Iso E Super: 7-acetyl, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8-octahydro-1,1,6,7-tetramethyl naphthalene
I need help badly.
Escentric 01 / Molecule 01
2

I think MHarris has said that TAA (the main mone in IS/m) and ANol are the quickest evaporators on the skin. That might have been before all the putatives hit the market though.

I definitely noticed the quick evaporation whenever I spritzed on Experimone TAA and indeed loved the ‘powerful instant confidence’ it gave me.

Visionary

3

Monolaurin isn’t bad as a stabilizer

This is sold in a highly purified form for human consumption as Lauricidin… it dissolves well in alcohols… it is a natural emulsifier and apparantly has potent anit-viral actions due to the way it blocks virus formation… I have dissolved large quantities in mone-alcohol-oil combinations, enough that when I set it in the refrigerator it will solidify into a waxy block. On the skin it has a smooth, velvety feel, not at all greasy but you are aware that there is a layer of something on your skin. They are experimeting with this stuff now in anti-bacterial hand washes as an emollient and anti-bacterial. It has the added advantage of neutralizing any bacteria that might want to convert one mone to another. It also appears to stabilize the lighter mones for a steady release, although other fixative agents like the tenacious amber scents migh add to this… too much amber can be obnoxious, I tend to prefer patchouli oil…:roll_eyes:

4

Lauricidin & Virgin Coconut Oil

Lauricidin - the purified form, is it available in pellets/powder or liquid form (oil)?
http://www.lauricidin.com/faq.htm

I’ve been consuming Virgin Coconut Oil (VCO) for half a year. VCO is composed of nearly 50% lauric acid by volume, while Lauricidin is derived from lauric acid by combining it with glycerol.

I did mix some NPA/w into VCO. No solubility issues but there is gloss/sheen upon application onto skin. The VCO is fully absorbed into skin after 40 mins, leaving the pheromones to do their work. Diffusion is low but the mones lasts, just have to use more. I couldn’t use VCO as I need the stealth/cover, the sheen is not viable for me.

A bit off topic, I could personally testify to the health benefits of VCO, and I have tested many other supplements, including extreme ones :smiley: My parents, sister & myself have experienced increased metabolic rate, more energy, “lightness” on the body/limbs & better skin color (pink, better circulation). Most notable are the regulated effects of thyroid/liver functions. Highly recommended if body/mind lethargy is indicated, especially for the elderly. BTW, skin brushing with VCO, helps to tone cellulite & belly :wink:

While many are familliar with VCO’s health benefits, there are different grades of VCO on the market (I spent many weeks consolidating these info). Methods of producing VCO from fresh & mature coconuts:

  1. EXTRACT VIA DRY PROCESS (a.k.a. cold-pressed= meat are dried (by steam, less coconut aroma) then cold/expeller-pressed manually (worst choice)

  2. EXTRACT VIA WET PROCESS = GRATED MEAT, THEN PRESSED TO PRODUCE COCONUT MILK, THEN EITHER

a) traditional cooking method, low-temp boiling/heating until oil floats & moisture is evaporated (worst choice)

b) fermentation (a.k.a cold-processed, absolutely no heat ANH), which allows enzymes to act on coconut milk, separating oil from water 15 hours only, aka cold-processed, further decanted for 3 weeks to separate minute moisture levels (2nd best choice)

c) mechanical separation via centrifugal of oil from water 2 hours only, dried further via vacuum evaporation in low temperature (best choice)

Premium VCO are the centrifugal & fermentation type, which is expensive & rare. Tropical Traditions (TT) & only a handful in US carries them.

The rest are common in the market.

I had contacted around 20 Philippines VCO manufacturers. The centrifugal & fermentation type are actually quite cheap (USD $8.00/litre) when you buy in bulk (not retail packs), i.e. 8 litres, which is around $64.00. But TT sells only 1 gallon (3.75 litres) for this price. It might be cheaper to get direct from Phillipines, depending on where you’re from.

Pour 1-2 teaspoons of VCO onto food. 1 litre lasts 2 months. I’ve ordered 16 litres :smiley:

My recommended Phillipine sources, centrifugal is cheaper :

CENTRIFUGAL
http://www.elixirspacific.com/ ($8/litre)

FERMENTATION (cold-processed, ANH)
http://www.coconuthaven.com/diet.htm
http://www.cocoark.com/index.html
http://www.amazingfoodscorp.com/product.html
Redirecting... (Philippines, UK, Singapore)
Ginoco.com is for sale | HugeDomains

Research
http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/index.htm

Manufacturers List

Maybe we should have a Health section?

i2w

5

Monolaurin (sold as Lauricidin) is a lauric (12 carbon) fatty acid ester

There are good reasons why Monolaurin will behave in a substantially different way that coconut oil. The most important is that being a monoglyceride (technically glyceryl laurate) is has emulsifier or soap like properties which may explain why it is effective in disrupting virii… it’s soapiness means that it will be attracted to water, alcohol, and oils and can dissolve into far more things that coconut oil can. On the skin it feels dry, not oily or sheen like, not sticky either. It is shipped in bottles filled with small pellets that feel like a soft wax. It is solid at room temperture, and odorless. It is being investigated as a legitimate anti viral medicine.. I can attest that after I began taking it, my incidence of influenza and the severity of the flus were noticably less. It is being investigated as an adjunct medicine for HIV infection and is rumored to be effective against the herpes family of virii…:wink:

6

I have ordered Carnation Absolute to try as a fixative of pheromones in a DPG or Ethanol base. Ordered Benzoin as well, should arrive within a week.

Is there a low-odor or lightly-scented fixative among EOs? Any synthetic alternatives? Arbozol?

7

Carnation absolute is intensly fragrant

You won’t believe how little of this you need. Concentrated. My favorite absolute is jasmin… one drop on a whole bottle of good cologne will impart a potent floral character… erotic too… carnation can work with spicy scents, be careful you don’t overuse it and get floral all over the place. Harris can source some interesting fragrant things… you might give him a request… some attars (rose absolutes) can impart a masculine note IF thye’re balanced against a strong wood note. I’m still hoping Harris can find that “gothic cathedral” stuff…

8

Iso E Super may do the trick… I’ve liked it in combination with other fragrances as well… I think there is a perfume education site where you can buy pure Iso E Super at a cheap price or you can buy it as Molecule 01 cologne expensively…:wink:

9

Where are you guys getting your absolutes from? This sounds interestsing.

10

Thanks. Found it!

11

it occured to me reading this thread that we used to make our own body powders using fixitives that hold EO’s within the cornstarch. i believe it was orris rt powder, and occasionally sandalwood powder. the reason i bring this up is because living in Fla, i use powders to cool, and the orris/sandalwood “lock in” a scent, obviously not so that it is not diffused because you smell it for up to a year before it fades. antibacterial properties there too but im sure not to the extent you guys are talking. just thought someone might have a thought about it…

12

Iso E Super
Relative Odor Impact : 5
Odor : amber, woody with “velvety undertones”
Odor Life : 280 Hours
Substantivity : 172 hour(s) at 100.00 %
CAS 54464-57-2
Molecular Weight : 234
Molecular Formula : C16H26O
Specific Gravity : 0.96000 - 0.96800 @ 25.00 °C, 0.96100 - 0.96900 @ 20.00 °C

As comparison, Clary Sage EO used in one of our favorite product

Clary Sage EO
Relative Odor Impact: 110
Odor Life: 20 Hours
Substantivity : 36 hours
CAS 8016-63-5
Actual Specific Gravity 0.91570 @ 25.00 °C

Notes :
Relative Odor Impact : strength value of the scent, as compared to Linalool which has a value of 100

Iso Super E is lighter than Clary Sage EO, in terms of scent strength. I’ve found quite a few others which is low-odor, lasts long (>30 hours).

Can I assume long odor life (>30 hours)/specific gravity (>0.92) to be a good indicator of fixative properties & retard pheromone diffusion? Thanks.

13

it may be a lot more complicated than that… the electrostatic charges on the pheromone molecules may need a fit with the fixative, kind of like things will cling to plastic… so there’s more the shape and charge cloud around the fixative than pure weight or viscosity…

14

The thing about scents in my Asian community : most people don’t have a trained nose & are acclimatized to popular celebrity colognes only (sigh).

The last time I sampled Pheros from DST (LS), I almost got “killed” by people’s unapproving stares on the train (I wore 1 dab, could be the civet). Less popular scents, no matter how pure/original, will undo the best effects of my pheromones. As such, I am weary of scented pheromones, I’d prefer unscented any day. Still looking for a low-odor/odorless fixative for my mones.

Pheros did have a nice evolving & long drydown, a thin layer of substrate/film forms on the skin upon drying (think it was benzoin/collagen as mentioned by DST). The film could help with controlling pheromone diffusion as skin temp changes. I could get a bottle again just to let it age. Maybe I could use it one day :smiley:

Iso Super E : is the scent intense/light? Dominant woody note? Noticeable radiation?

Rose Otto or Carnation : could a guy wear it as a single note? Any thoughts? Don’t want to appear on the feminine side :smiley: Thanks.

Shortlisted low-odor & long lasting stuff :

  • Methyl Ionone- alpha-iso- (Iris woody note, violet sweet orris powdery floral)
  • Dupical (Lily of the valley green note, powerful diffusive fresh watery floral lily the valley)
  • Aurantiol -Schiff-s base MA-Hydroxy- (Narcotic floral citrus note, fresh lily orange blossom sweet)
  • Ambroxan - Cetalox (Animalic woody note, dry woody amber ambergris musk sweet)
  • Iso E Super (Woody animal note, amber, woody with velvety undertones)
15

research orris. its used because it has little/no scent.

16

Stick with the Iso E Super

everything else on your list is too strong… I sometimes mix up and Iso E, Monolaurin, some other fragrance that’s not too gnarly like a little sandalwood (probably a crafty synthetic) … some of the synthetic sandals are tenacious, boy, there’s even a synthetic Oud-ish base made by Firmenich, if I smelled what I thought it was, not bad, not bad… there is this commonly used liquid called Isopropyl Myristate used in many cosmetics… it’s purpose is to make products flow smoothly on the skin, a heavier, clinging oil, does not evaporate, kind of mildly fatty smelling… and there is also a synthetic called **Evernyl or Veramoss **that is supposed to stick like glue. Strong odor, but not catty or weird that would freak out Asian sensibilites

17

DEFINITIONS

Impact refers to the efficacy of a perfume during the first moments of product experience, for example, when sniffing at the bottle or applying the product to the skin.

Diffusion is a measure of the distance over which the fragrance is noticeable soon after application. High diffusion is desirable, for example, in the case of a bath foam or a dishwashing detergent where the consumer often looks for an immeiate burst of scent.

Tenacity refers to the long- term effectiveness of the fragrance in the perfumed product (as in a soap bar or an extended action room freshener) or on the surface to which the product has been applied, for example, upon the skin after use of a toilet soap. In former days it was believed that tenacity dependent upon the use of so-called fixatives (evaporation-retarding agents) in composing a perfume, today the opinion pervails that it is simply the resultant of the tenacity of the individual odorants used (Jellinek 1978).

Substantivity refers to the ability of a perfume or a perfume material, applied in a diluted dispersion in water, to attach itself to a solid surface such as the skin (in the case of toilet soap and bath and shower products ), the hair (in shampoos and conditioners ), or textile fibers (in detergents and fabric softeners). It may refer also to their ability to stay on the surface when this is moistened ( as in deodorants or waterproof sun protection products ).

Volume is the effectiveness over distance, some time after application. The difference between tenacity and volume often lies at the root of misunderstandings between the perfumer and the client. The perfumer, accustomed to examining fragrances at close range, measures the lasting power of his or her creations by their tenacity; the consumer and the marketing manager look for volume.

Diffusion
The volatilisation, evaporation and dispersal of a material throughout the surrounding atmosphere. In chemistry and physics this is normally related to the high Vapour Pressure and low molecular weight of a chemical.

However, in perfumery it equally refers to a material or compounds ability to permeate the atmosphere with it’s characteristic smell around it’s source. Strangely, a materials ability to do this is not always related to it’s Vapour Pressure.

Some larger molecule materials (e.g.. Hedione, Iso E Super) not only demonstrate this ability but also ‘hang’ in the air. The molecules evaporate but instead of moving quickly from the vicinity of the source, they seem to move slowly away.

Hedione
CAS 24851-98-7

BTW, just received my Stryax Benzoin (Sumatra) today. A quick solvency test

Stryax_Benzoin : Ethanol (1 : 20)

  • Milky, large white solids appear after mixing. Solvency complete but with artifacts (solids)

Stryax_Benzoin : DPG (1 : 49)

  • Solvency complete. Milky substance yielded with no artifacts.
    Skin application : Very mild scent, only noticeable up close (1-2 cm). Felt warm on the skin. Glossy sheen upon skin application, sheen is almost gone in 25 minutes while the scent remains.
18

Hey, nice choice of aromachems with the Iso E Super and the Ambroxan/Cetalox. Love them

As far as Rose Otto or Carnation, the Rose otto is very difficult to get away with. Very grandmotherly. Carnation on the other hand, is great. But it’s even better if you blend the absolute with some black pepper absolute or iris synth or real. The pure carnation doesn’t last and can end up smelling too clovey in the dry down. The other spices or even a drop of jasmine exhalt its floralness but still don’t fem it out.

Rose Otto or Carnation : could a guy wear it as a single note? Any thoughts? Don’t want to appear on the feminine side :smiley: Thanks.

19

Carnation won’t work so well as a fixative but might help as a dispersant. The best proven fixative out there is ambroxan. It has an extremely high blotter life. It’s solid at room temperature but you can buy it pre-diluted in carrier and will dissolve into alcohol or maybe oil. You have to use it extremely diluted and it’s not odorless, in fact it can smell a bit foul in high concentrations.

Glucam P-20 is another fixative I am testing out with pheromones and it has almost no odor. It more than doubles the blotter life of highly volatile fragrance oils like eugenol. I think it increases the effective lifespan of Instant Shine by about 25-33 percent or so, but I’ll have to test it out more. It does reduce initial diffusivity.

Benzoin or jasmine are good medium-length fixatives to use, too. Other good fixatives would be agarwoud/aoud, sandalwood, or patchouli and maybe vetiver, but they all have odors. They have blotter lives generally of hundreds of hours and are difficult to remove even with casual washing (handwashing, etc). Sandalwood would probably have the least impact in terms of a fragrance fixative in that bunch. Oud or patchouli probably the worst if you want to avoid impact. Just keep in mind you won’t need alot of fixatives, becaues you won’t be spraying that much pheromones on you, too. The alcohol will quickly evaporate.

Benzoin is around 80-100 hours, and jasmine is usually considered more of a middle-to-base note, heavier than some smells but not quite as heavy as some woods, plants, and resins.

Carnation is used in alot of men’s fragrances and is usually considered more masculine since it has a bit of an herbal smell to it (the real thing, not the stuff at a florist). Tabac Original or Canoe are well-known men’s colognes with carnation as a prominent note. It’s mostly synthetic now days because the carnation crops are so poor. Men can wear roses and a well-known rose and violet blend would be Geoffrey Beane’s Grey Flannel (it also has other ingredients, of course, but the rose and violet are prominent). Rose otto is also used in alot of unisex or masculine Middle Eastern/Indian attars dissolved into sandalwood oil, usually no more than 10-20 percent, but I wouldn’t say it’s good to wear on its own, the lifespan will be too short and it will smell boring.