Since there is a recognized problem of timed release and diffusion control, it seems like a good idea to open a thread on the subject…
Some ideas for the base already:
Good ol’ basic glycerin… downside may be that it is too hygroscopic and not enough lipophilic, so the pherom molecules my be repelled from the glycerol molecules and evaporate rapidly anyway, while the glycerol is soaking up sweat and atmospheric air..
Good ol’ basic mineral oil… downside is that it is too lipophilic, greasy, sticky, and hard to remove from clothing and feels unpleasant on naked skin..although will keep the molecules available on the skin surface and make them behave…
DPG and DBG… better… although the DPG also seems to release the pheros a little too fast, better than alcohol though… DBG may also feel somewhat slimy on the skin…
Silicone oils… nicest on skin, problem is that it is hard to dissolve other stuff in silicone, including other oils, tends to form emulsions more than true solutions… may be best incorporated as a textural additive..
Monoglycerides… interesting… used widely in the commercial food industy as emulsifiers, part of the molecule is lipophilic, part hydrophilic, so it might partially lock on to the phero molecule and act as an evaporation controller while also grabbing any local moisture… definitely cleaner than the lecithins… plus it may allow combination of of glycols, silicones, and pheromones in a common emulsion… and no known toxicity
Squalene, another goodie, already has structural similarity to pheromones, and is endogenous to human skin.. downside is that it might act too well as a penetrant, or it might simply absorb away from the pheromone, leaving it naked on the surface of the skin
Crosspolymers of glycols/glycerine/acrylates etc… you will see these in expensvie cosmetic products on account of their excellent on skin behavior, silky smoothness, good product mixing and binding attributes… downside is that minimum order may be a tank car of the product
Noveon Personal Care division has a wide range of these high value additives, specialty lanolin alcohols, and filming agents. Another pheromone product maker has experimented with, not so successfuly, with the new acrylic film technology… appears to lock up the mones TOO agressively… but as a minor additive to form more of a gel or a weak film ? Might work wonders IF correctly adjusted to the true nature of the problem. Some lanolin alcohols might be good too…
Really out there cosmetic chemistry, Glycoshpingolipids and Ceramides ? Well, might be another home run there too… maybe… they appear in the deeper layers of the skin as critical boundary agents, possibly because of their ability to act like natural liquid crystals, shifting from solid to fluid… in a pheromone delivery system ?? How intriguing… lock them in then release a small amount, then lock for a while… depending on body heat, movement, etc…
Kreskin Predicts: A. The next important step in product development is a true state of the art delivery vehicle, and B. the old alcohol/glycol approach will be thought of as a first generation primitive attempt to control diffusion…
I’m not sure if retarding diffusion (which is actually a simple feat) is as important as harmonizing the rates of diffusion of complex mixtures of different pheromone molecules.
Having your androstenone diffuse 6 times slower than your alpha-nol, and your alpha diffuse slower than your TAA, etc., is a real issue (the -none component being the worst “problem child” of the common pheromones)
We don’t use the “old alcohol/glycol” approach in our “Instant” line, which does achieve a very usable degree of harmonization with what’s “state of the art” in the fragrance industry.
Unfortunately, the rate of research in the fragrance industry is nowhere that of other sectors of technology. (if only they improved cosmetics tech at the rate of video cards!)
Therefore I’d love to see diffusion characterists improved improved upon, and we will work further with chemical physicists at some point to make it happen.
Out of your list, I’m particularly interested in the newer technologies such as those in #7 and #8, and to some extent #5. We’ve tested many of the others.
A real dog is #2 (mineral oil) where a good portion of the pheromones are shed over time as the result of desquamation more than diffusion.
I’m very interested in directly mimicing sweat, and then experimenting with altering the variables (including the glycoproteins and other natural surfactants & diffusion aids) once a good mimic is made.
How many hours of release are ideal to you? And more importantly, perhaps, what sort of diffusion characteristics are you willing to give up in exchange for time release?
sometimes I do like a quick release, although I might prefer it to be slower than an alcohol based blast… say a nice even 2 hour window with a taper off… then a 4 hour and an 8 hour, yeah, 2,4,8 would be a perfect set of options… either that or market leather breastplates that we can custom order with our initials embossed… codpieces would be an attractive option too..
If your harmonizer formula can exist independently of a fragrance would you consider selling it as a dilutant-carrier for us to work with ?
seems to be a good source for this chemistry… mmmmm… brain lipids…
meanwhile, in my humble place of higher thought, a simple mixture of blackcurrant seed oil, antioxidant, and monolaurin is in the offing. The seed oil is nice because it is refreshing to the skin, not irritating, and cleans up easily, while the monolaurin is emollient, has a soft waxy consistency to stabilize my fugitive TAA species of pheromones, and because of monolaurin having some polar behavior, gets along well with alcohols and glycols… plus… (a big plus maybe ?) monolaurin disrupts bacterial membranes, possibly reducing or eliminating any enzymatic conversions, not that I’ve bought into that model over much… monolaurin is also now being researced as an emollient + bacteriostaic or bacteriocidal agent to add into alcohol based sanitizers in hospital environment… seems that too much alcohol disrups skin lipds and makes them more prone to infection with repeated use… who knew ? The highly unsaturated omega 3 oils are too unstable for commercial use without special precautions, however in one-off home mixes they are the best for dermal health… maybe a teensy bit of BHT for good luck and some phosphatidyl serine and we should be good to go.
Would be cool if you guys sold small bottles of crosspolymer, like 4 oz… so we could play cosmetic chemist
We already sell it. It’s available in the “empty” bottles, as a filler add-on. Just get the “strong” pheromone enhancing orange.
It was designed for us by the fragrance technology group (but not the same perfumers) that created Andron for Jovan some 25 years ago.
It harmonizes release rates pretty well, but it’s not perfect. It doesn’t completely close the gap between androstenone and TAA, for instance, which are are on the opposite ends of the volatility scale.
While good, if you consider how far computer companies have come in 25 years, it’s not so impressive, is it?
Nonetheless, when I have the funds available, I’ll probably hire the same fragrance technology group again to upgrade it. They’re at the top in their own field, even if they’re not as speedy as the guys who make microprocessors and video cards.
An excellent question… thixotropic properties are one thing, skin texture and washability issues are another, and controlled binding is yet another… most cosmetic formulae that I come across have crosspolymers as a major ingredient usually compounded with emollients, or like Neutrogena has done, the use colloidal silica to give a silky smooth feel… a bit of ingenuity may be in order here… I see some business cooking in the cosmetic industry along the lines of Trimethylol Hexyllactone Crosspolymer and a variety of microspheres developed by Kobo… the microsphere idea could be interesting if their local electostatic charges could function as “docking cores” for phero molecules, or possibly simply as stabilizing agents… the hardcore physical chem guys will have to take it form here… I’m not a microsphere expert by any means… but the idea is suggestive…
Exotic fragrance concentrates, monolaurin, other thots
Mentioned two or three potential candidates on the other thread… would Androtics consider vending small quantities of some of the Givaudan fragrance chems, maybe quinolines, pseudo-castoerum, and maybe spirambrene or oakumal … these are typicaly effective in sub-percentage doses and tenacious as hell … maybe we could try these insead of a fully built up frag, or we could add it in as a booster + fixative … a little in a preexisting Villoresi or whatever might kicks some receptors in the head…
Been playing with monolaurin as an emulsifier… goes right straight into alcohol without a burp… rather waxy, barrier forming, not gummy or sticky int the slightest. I think it would have to be mixed with a viscous oil consistency lipid to fully do its’ thing … maybe, we shall see, it will behave like a pheromone double sided tape and hold them close to the skin for a while…
just tried Villoresi’s Musk perfume oil combined with his Wild Lavender EDT… for recondite reasons the fragrance of lavender is supposed to be rated as the most intrinsically erotic so, naturally…
The musk oil is costly but highly concentrated and not all that overwhelming to the nose, and this combination diffuses somewhat rapidly, although it is sexy as hell… … leaving the skankwaters far back there in the dust.. I could imagine this combo seriously enhanced with with some tenacious Givaudan stuff…
tried a sample of Iso E Super… the molecule looks like the lower half of a pheromone molecule, the two hex rings…and it does have a somewhat pheromonal fragrance… some have mentioned a phero like effect from it… it is subtle, almost delicate on the skin, and appears to regulate the diffusion of other fragrance molecules. When added to a phero/fragrance mix I had put together, it mellowed the combination, making it more “transparent” to use a popular term in perfumery… interesting material there
… leaving the skankwaters far back there in the dust.. I could imagine this combo seriously enhanced with with some tenacious Givaudan stuff…