do you think wearing pheromones a form of manipulation?
Yes or No and why please.
I think so because, people who usually tell me no when I would request things at work, now give more than normal respect and never say no.
Women who would not give me the time of day before, now are trying to keep my attention and ignore other people whenever I am near.
even my bosses who respect nobody usually, now ask my opinion and never check up on my work they just trust me.
So I would have to say yes, I think I do have a manipulation effect on people.
even my alpha friends stand back now.
I use a314 for my core phero as well as IO IS and Ammo and for a little fun I will throw in tuth sometimes , because of my age and the fact I work in a smoking environment I od intentionally everyday, my world has become much easier due to pheromones allowing me to manipulate unsuspecting people.
I try not take to much advantage but the extra attention is a lot of fun.
I have been in a ten year relationship and recently we were about to split up and one day we were having a big argument, so I went into the bathroom and put on ifm and io a314.
When I returned she started yelling again within 5 minutes she calmed down and just started being nice like nothing happened, she also started agreeing with all my points of view she has never displayed this behavior before.
And by the way our relationship is doing well now maybe better than ever and we were very serious about splitting up, I think this is a case of manipulation and it saved my relationship!
I prefer to think of them as a form of influence. Not that much different than motivational psychology, hypnosis/neuro-linguistic programming, or a dozen other things.
For some guys, pheromones could be their first experience of really looking behind the curtain and realizing that little things can, and do, add up to influence peoples impressions and behaviors. For many, many years I was a very rational person, and I expected other people to be the same as well, but it turns out most people aren’t all that rational most of the time. It’s a different way of thinking with different rules about what is “right” and what is “wrong”. 2 + 2 doesn’t equal 5, but if I tell somebody they are “wrong”, that makes them feel a certain way depending on how I say it… OK, now I’m rabling a bit.
Manipulation is a bit sinister sounding, since it implies you are twisting somebody arm, or decieving them. You could probably do a little bit of that with pheromones, but I don’t think they are inherently manipulative.
Nope they are no more a form of manipulation then my push up bra or Eye liner. They enhance the good qualities in a person and ease communication, arouse, calm ect ect .
They will not make people do things against their will
They will not make people do things against there morals or values
They will not make someone who hates you like you.
They will not make people have sex with you.
They however can make someone who has a mild attraction for you have a more strong attraction.
They can make people more comfortable and willing to interact with you.
They can make someone who hates you be a bit nicer.
They can make people treat you with more respect but they wont earn that respect for you. You have to have respectable qualities to begin with
They just give you a edge and make socialization a whole lot easier and fun.
Tisha
sigh of relief
You know what, I think my definition of manipulation is to broad, I retract my previous statement and side with Tisha23.
She makes sense to me and she is a pretty sharp person from all her other posts. It is just an enhancement I guess, I am just more respected by other people in my life than I thought.
D
Tish’s right, of course.
Let me offer you some other examples of influence/manipulation/motivation from psychology:
If you walk up to stranger A… ask him for a dollar, he won’t give it to you alot of the time. If you walk up to stranger B… ask him for 100 dollars, but he refuses… and you ask him for 1 dollar, he will be more likely to give you 1 dollar than stranger A because he assumes he is “winning” something over you, even though he is in fact losing a dollar.
You’ve seen the ads on TV where they say “You could have this product for 100 dollars… or even 50 dollars… but today we’re selling this product to you for the low, low price of $19.95”… that is the same principle at work as the above example. You are being influenced/manipulated to consider the product cheaper than it really is, because you saw higher numbers first, so you are assuming that somehow the person selling it isn’t “making as much money”, even though you aren’t an accountant looking at their books showing their costs.
Also, people like to see other people suffer with them. Person A and Person B are comming out of a building, it is raining and they have no umbrellas. The logical thing to do would be for A or B to get in the car and drive up to the building to get the other person, depending on who could tolerate the rain the most. However, invariably if the person does that, they feel some resentment against the person who stayed dry. It wasn’t fair , even thought it was logical.
Another example of this effect would be, people in experimental conditions would rather not recieve $10 dollars, if it meant they had to watch somebody else get $100 dollars, even though they will be $10 dollars poorer by not letting the other guy get $100 dollars. I could go on and on of course, but I won’t… 
Got it daedelus76, I am still so new to this, I have gotten a lot of response to the pheromones, sometimes it looks like they have more effect than they do. Perhaps my confidence has just improved enough with the pheromones, that other people are responding to both.
Yes, that’s it exactly
I’d hate to call it manipulation. I like to call it - upping the chances of things going favorably and improving the gut factor. While we’ll all have times when things didn’t go well when using pheros, chances are we’ll have more success in executing whatever plan we have, be it trying to get a decent haircut or maybe getting some more chattiness out of what would normally cause awkward silences.
Now as for the gut factor, it takes guts to do many things for me, be it snatching a taxi from some nasty lady or simply standing up when nobody else wants to. It takes a lot of guts to be confidence sometimes.
But hey, aren’t we all “manipulative” in some way or another in nature? Surviving in cruel society is an art.
I agree, it’s not manipulation, it’s just adding to one’s own sex appeal and confidence. We put out pheromones naturally, phero-alchemy is just enhancement
It affects your subconcious mind and the subconcious mind is 1000x more powerful than your concious waking mind. but it is far from manipulation.
I see pheromones more like a subtle influence, they can enhance some feeling in people around you. Manipulation is a strong word, no one will treat you like a god just because you’re wearing pheromones.
Like Richard Bandler, I’d prefer to call it communication, but that’s not the queston. Is it?
So… Yes, pheromones are a form of manipulation.
But just because you are manipulating people (or yourself) doesn’t mean they don’t have free will – which means the results of your manipulations often won’t be what you intend or expect them to be. If it is your intention to infringe someone’s free will, you are inviting karmic retribution. Do yo really think there is no chance of pheromones creating “buyer’s remorse”?
If pheromones are used to maniulate people, does that mean they are bad? If lies are used to manipulate people does that mean that communication is bad?
The more important question is that of responsibility and power. Now that you have the knowledge to use phermones to the benefit of yourself and others, is it wrong not to?
And last, but certainly not least… Yes, Tisha’s push up bra is a form of manipulation. But that’s okay because her breasts don’t have free will. Or do they?
P.S. I do believe this interpretation is less vulnerable to Occam’s Razor.
TO Manipulate
To Influence
Nope I am sure its not manipulation.
The only thing my push up Bra is Manipulating are my boobs, No they do not have free will yet. LOL
They are real, they are mine and they are Magnificent 
My understanding is that pheromones form a communication method based on chemicals. As such it forms part of a large group of indicators available to another person against which to assess you.
The recognition and response to those chemical signals are centred around the hypothalamus (‘the brain’s brain’) and are rooted deep in our evolutionary history. Some will argue that they are so deeply buried as to be defunct. As such, any reaction to a pheromone is individual to that person and also involuntary. That reaction may be common to many people, just as social influences are, such as prejudice based on physical appearance and behaviour such as speech.
We must consider whether any intentional modification to any of these forms of communication which provoke an involuntary response is a falsehood or lie before we consider it’s application. I believe it is a lie, but I also believe it’s OK. If it weren’t, where would we be as regards self improvement generally?
In the dating game we all want people to see us in the best light possible, looking good, smelling good, having fun and being popular. Pheromones are no more manipulation than wearing a ridiculously priced watch [see me about Hong Kong replicas] or driving a car you can barely afford to fix. Whether your money would be better spent elsewhere is your choice and your choice alone.
If you want to someone to think of you as a millionaire so they are more likely to sleep with you, when really you empty bins for 5 pounds an hour [for illustration only!] then you can say you’re a millionaire, which is obviously a lie. Or you can wear an expensive suit, but is that a lie or just an expensive suit? Or you can wear a pheromone that tells her that you’re high status - is that a lie? Is a woman sleeping with someone because they have money fulfilling an ancient need to ‘feather the nest’ or something more insidious? …a different forum.
I believe it’s a purely personal question whether it can be considered manipulation [to manage a person to one’s own advantage unfairly or unscrupulously - OED]. Personally, I have scruples so I must consider whether it’s unfair and I think don’t think it is.
Whether you consider pheromones manipulation or influence really, to my mind, indicates the level of faith you have in their efficacy. The general opinion and mine is that pheromones really don’t give you the level of control that would be implicit in their being manipulative. If you find one that does, PM me, I’ll try it out for you.
Can we talk about boobs now?
Pheromones have been described as “enhancing what is already there”.
I’m of the belief that pheromones are no different than wearing make-up, nice clothing, driving a nice sportscar, perfume/cologne, a new hairstyle, hair color or wearing colored contacts. It just enhances what’s already there.
If you’re dressed in rags, speak loudly and obnoxiously and forget to brush your teeth, I seriously doubt, pheromones will make women want to go to bed with you or coerce people to like you and speak to you. There has to be something there already for them to like you in the first place.
Not calling out anyone, but I’m rather curious why there’s been several questions on morals regarding the use of pheromones lately. First that Christian guy’s question, now this one?
I’ve been experimenting with Instant Sexiness with some positive results. A man applying female pheromones wouldn’t be “enhancing what is already there.” Wouldn’t that be more of a biochemical lie?
It would be interesting to do a pheromone version of MK-ULTRA. Would dousing homless people with Instant Gentleman be more effective than those government run “welfare to work” programs?
I think Tisha is just looking for an excuse to talk about her magnificent breasts.
Seriously though… I first encountered Richard Bandler and John Grinder back in the seventies * before (and after) they coined the term Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP). The exact same questions and concerns about NLP and “manipulation” came up back then. I think it is natural.
In his book The Ultimate Time Machine, Joseph McMoneagle predicts that in the future some pheromones will be outlawed because they are so powerful. And people will wear defensive pheromones to block the effects of other people’s powerful pheromonal attmpts to manipulate them. So far most of his predictions made in the 1999 book have turned out to be wrong.*