Pheromones and the friend zone: is attraction harder once you're already friends?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
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Ookay, so after my first couple months of field testing, i realize a few things about how pheromones work. many things i realized was how it wouldn’t work for you, it works with you. more of that in my older post in sig.

i’ve read Tater said that “once you trash your signature on a target, it’s over, you’re done” i didn’t really quite understand this mean, and i MAY even be misinterpreting him, but i wanted to elaborate on an experience from this line. In school this year, i rarely hang out with any guys anymore because we all got difference classes, and a lot of my buddies actually go to difference schools. I’m very well acquainted with a few girls and have a lot of classes with them; those in which i converse with them a lot.

products i’ve used throughout the couple of month includes: instant female magic, instant honesty 2x, instant shine, mx103, and ammo. of course difference variations on different days.

The girls who original already know me from last year, where i was already just a friend and the kind of relationship between those girls and i already establish are “just friends”. The only difference i can see that the pheromones may affect them is that friendliness, and talkativeness. you can’t create an attraction that’s not there even with all the pheros in the world. once you’re already a friend and that relation is both mutual understood, then you’re stuck there. it’s up to her and you to step out of the friend zone, not the pheros. i believe this is how tisha and her hubby hook’ed up; friends first, but for the most part, this is extremely hard! lol.

for those girls who barely knew me, some with a little bit of attraction, the pheros may push them to be more attracted to me and that may work for your benefits. because they know little about you, they have no idea what your signature is; therefore, pheros can create a bigger attraction that has to already be there.

so from what tater stated, i believe what he meant was that if you used a friendly signature and your target already got this friendly vibe off you for awhile and you’ve stepped into the friend zone, then the attraction may be as good as gone. there’s no way to step out of it and difference pheros might only cause confusion, not attraction. not sure if anyone is understanding what i’m saying in this post lol…

think of a blank slate where you’re about to paint. the canvas is the target and the paint is the pheros. girls who’re already friends with you for awhile, there canvas is already painted and your pheros can affect them very little.

however, a girl who doesnt know you, a blank slate, the pheros can paint an attraction, even those that know you but only barely, the pheros can help build a better painting. hahah strange analogy?? i know :stuck_out_tongue:

p.s. i know this is my 1000000 time ranting about it, but i can’t stand MY mx103 smell. used it again today and every time, i feel like almost gagging. the length of sjmell however is getting smaller and smaller. the stench goes away only after 5-10 minutes now. could it be that this bottle is non-fragrant and this is raw pheros

The "MAD TATER" Journal
'Pheromones for pickup' strategies
Best phero(s) for helping transition a friendship to something more?
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i just wrote liek the longest essay ever lolz, thanks for those who take time to read it!

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the major way you can screw up is by wearing a too sexual/aggressive mix in the wrong context when she isn’t ready for it. so a none/Edge overdose can ruin peoples’ perception of you semi-permanently almost independently of how you behave (and the self-effects are likely to get you deeper into trouble).

I haven’t had any experience of wearing a friendly mix (eg nol, Instant Openness) and screwing things up - unless I didn’t steer it right (eg talking too much or revealing things I shouldn’t due to combined effects of betanol+alcohol).

Ie it’s most likely your behaviour rather than the pheros that is to blame. So should this be a problem for you then likely you need to develop more sexual, manly subcommunication and work on eradicating any kind of needy vibe.

it’s easier to create attraction in somebody you just met than with a girl that has you in the friend zone, so why would you bother… (but you can do it - and social proof is key here)

the friendly vibe comes from not treating her like a woman. if you start projecting a sexual pheromone signature whilst acting asexual then yes it is a recipe for confusion.

update III: Beware of Instant Honesty
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Great post Genesis and you hit many key points. I personally think the same as well, once you are in the comfort/friend zone with a target it becomes much harder/close to impossible to build attraction in such sort in comparison to just meeting her. Rule of thumb stated by many is that pheromones will work better on those you just met and those who don’t know your signature. Your must is a confirmation of this message and it’s great for all members to see. Reps for that! :smiley: It wasn’t an essay btw. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Most of my GFs and my ex-wives started as friends. I really don’t want to get intimately involved with someone unless I know them well and dig them first as a friend and companion. It makes the sex so much more fun and meaningful once you hit the sack. And it makes the 99% of the time you’re doing other things together so much better. I can also say, no one nighters or fling ever blossomed into a friendship or relationship of any type once we tired of bumping uglies.

You can be honest and communicate well, but keep some dad burn secrets–mystery is important. Don’t spill all your beans. Tease her a bit and maintain a low-key sexual tension and, whatever happens, be sure she knows you’re a real man. And I stress “man” rather than nutness steer. Don’t act like a brother or one of the girls. You might as well be gay if you let that happen. Okay, some women are faghags and adore gay men, but they’re the exception rather than the rule.

I think the above is much more difficult when you’re a young man. You want it all now and nature ain’t gonna wait. Patience is the key and the underlying sexual tension can lead to truly hot sex between friends once things come unglued. The hard part is, once you have sex, she’s already totally in love and extremely vulnerable, so you shouldn’t take advantage unless you’re willing to go the extra mile.

One nice thing about developing a friendship before an intimate relationship is the friendship often endures long after the love affair has gone south. Not all my GFs would talk to me after we were done for, but more often than not we made peace and still hang out.

Finally, even if nothing pans out romantically, you still got a friend, something hard to come by. And she’s a woman and thus you’re bound to meet other women through her. So time well spent.

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I believe Tater means that when you are not acting like the product portrait you: like wearing a314 but acting weak and not like a leader.

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great feedback guys. i was merely stating that from my own experience; although i’m still young and do not have a lot of experience like you guys =p, for younger crowds, it seems harder to advance a relationship with a person if you’re already friends from the start. None of my relationships have started as friendships, but i’ve also never been in a relationship with a stranger, i build friendship with my past relationships, but with the interest of a relationship and not just a friendship. if that happens to fail, then i have a friend.

as for the pheros, what i meant was that some people may like a girl or may have a “crush” on a girl and may try to use the pheros to create a relationship with that girl. for some this may be possible, but from my experience it’s not likely. I; however, am NOT in this situation, but was in the past. =p

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Thank you Genesis for starting the thread! I’m very impressed of what you wrote. Actually, lately I was noticing similar things. In fact, on the long-term friendsips, I’ve noticed good effects only with social Pheros, while almost no-effects from the ones like AMMO. While the best attraction hits, were from people I barely knew. I mean:

Long time friendships - Good results with Social Pheros. Small or no-results with AMMO and MX222.
Short time friendship and just met people - Good reaction with all, especially with a P74 base.

I think that all is due to the “friendship area” thing. Once they step inside, they can’t move them to the “relationship area” unless you want to gamble with the risk of crashing everything up. It happened to me, but it’s not connected with Pheros ;-).

See ya!!!

Franz

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runnerxvr! that’s exactly the same for me! i’m get very little results with the girls i already know and better results with the ones i dont really know as well. i think this is also one of the many reasons people give up on pheros quickly, because they’re afraid to approach strangers to see results.

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Biologically speaking pheromones work just as well on close friends and family as anyone else. However they already have you pegged and assigned to their spam filter. In other words their social filter overrides most biological based urges. While this situation can be changed, it’s usually difficult. That’s why you have to maintain your manhood and underlying sexual tension during the friendship. I’ve been friends with married and dating women. When her relationship fails, I’m the one she runs to when it’s time to upgrade. However if your role is that of a steer or “one of the girls,” she’ll come to you to bitch about her ex…

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Gegogi is on the money…

others have written at length on this topic. so google ‘banter teasing pickup’ and ‘sexual subcommunication’. working on those skills (and more generally on developing yourself as a person) will make sure you never end up in the friend zone. Ross Jeffries also has some good responses to the ‘lets just be friends’ line.

Stephane at ideagasms and dewussified.com has some interesting stuff on the relationship between balancing your chakras and developing male power and I personally have seen great benefits from energy work and improving body consciousness via Alexander and Feldenkrais.

note there is a big difference between a woman perceiving you as such high value that she doesn’t want to risk hurting her own feelings by coming on to you and being rejected (out of her league really) vs not perceiving you as ‘a fuckworthy guy’ (not my favoured terminology, but it’s certainly crisp).

i think in life for most men the former case is much less common than the latter. ‘i see you as a friend’ = ‘i am not attracted to you’ because you didn’t behave in a manly way.

a fun take on this idea

here are some banter lines
Robbo’s Flirting Blog: Banter!