Pheromones are not the answer to EVERYTHING!

Pheromone Science Pheromone Theory & Molecules
1

I started posting this in response to somebody in the mens forum asking about wearing mones around a newborn and well I quickly realized that I was veering off topic and addressing a larger issue so instead I post it here.

Yanno how easy it would be for someone to make these things sound like a panacea of all ills. I’ll even admit it worries me at times how often I’ll hear questions about what mones people should wear for anything and everything under the sun.
I’ve heard some…I wouldn’t call them complaints but comments about how people will grow accustomed to your signature over time…it’s called “KNOWING YOU” suddenly wearing mones to change peoples perceptions of you to be more in line with an image you want and are trying to convey is fine, changing them weekly? I don’t know how much good can come of that beyond simple experimentation for collecting data.
If you change your signature depending on the fluctuating moods or circumstances of the people in your life you can create confusion. Now imagine how confusing that will be to an infant that actually relies on smell as an identifier far more than any adult.
Then consider how many posts there are about pherocrash and the possibility that prolonged exposure to high levels of pheromones might deplete the brain of neurotransmitters.
You don’t need to wear mones around EVERYONE and and always wondering about what mix to wear to influence what person in what way at any given time indicates some control issues imo.

In the fairly short time I’ve been here I’ve read reports of, and questions about using mones for everything from appetite control, to study aids that improve focus and concentration, to energizers that help you stay awake, to mood lifters. Stop and think for a moment. When you look for or attribute effects like these to a product doesn’t it become a drug? Nevermind the fact that pheromones are substances created by animals for the purpose of communicating information about itself to others of it’s species. What in the world would cause a human primitive or otherwise to secrete a molecule in it’s sweat that makes it easier for the people within his pherocloud to stay on the south beach diet?
What are you communicating? Mones that indicate physical fitness and health I can accept. Mones that communicate maturity and the status that often comes with it fine, Mones that communicate “I’m a nice guy, come talk to me” totally understandable, Mones that say “Hi I promise I’m safe and have no intention of killing you and burying you in my backyard so you can feel safe around me” I can totally see why humans would evolve that.
But mones that say “Hi don’t eat too many carbs when I’m around”? If you’re looking for a pheromone to do this, I think you’re placing too much power in the products. If you’re experiencing effects like this, then I either question whether or not it’s placebo, or whether or not they can legitimately be considered a communicative substance, ie: a pheromone.

2

Excellent post Rad. I know what you mean by people giving them a lot more power then then may have. However there are companies out there that are heading in the direction of using pheromones to treat certain conditions such as …

Premenstrual Syndrome
Anxiety Disorders
Body Weight Management (Appetite Enhancement)
Depression
Decreased Alertness (Decreased Cognitive Performance)
BPH/prostrate cancer
Libido Enhancement

Of course they are using veronasal spray and not cologne and that is what makes the difference between a drug and a cosmetic product like here at androtics.

There is actually a lot of cool new research being done though.

Pherin Pharmaceuticals

I agree that in the form we buy them here at Androtics mones are just signalers though. They enhance. They are not designed to treat you for anything.

I will say this to whomever asked about the newborn. Dont use pheromones around your own child the first 6 months. Babies bond with there parents pheromonally and if your changing your signature it could effect the bonding process.

Tisha

3

Reading this opened my eyes a bit. Sometimes I know something but can’t put it in to words.

4

Thanks man, I don’t mean to sound overly critical but along with the notion of it being “10% mones/90% you” It surprises me how people will have a hundred various mixes for every possible occasion like they’re Hallmark Cards. But people want to know what mones to wear around an infant, what putative is good for focusing when studying for a test, is there an MX that works as an appetite suppressant? etc. If these were pills being sold for these purposes the DEA would be tracking us all down.

Now I don’t recall what particular putatives were mentioned in threads regarding using mones to improve focus or work motivation, but after my initial post I contemplated the issue. And I have to admit that in our prehistoric past, the production of such a molecule might occur in those individuals that would be considered a “true genetic alpha male”. As I’ve stated before the true Alpha isn’t necessarily the biggest, strongest or most aggressive, it’s the NATURAL leader that the rest of the tribe feels comfortable following. For an individual to produce not only the right ratio of Rone, None and other pheromones that creates a sense of authority and power, but to produce and secrete pheromones that can help encourage the group to cooperate, remain focused and maintain a good humor would be hugely advantageous, not only to the prospective leader but to those who are to be led.

That said, I’m still not comfortable with the notion of using mones as study aids, diet aids, or a cure for self diagnosed depression.

5

Yes, it gets a bit silly sometimes… all this pheromone stuff really is stupid when you think about it, but hey… I treat it as a hobby, and I have only been in this world for a few weeks now, so it’s all still new and exciting.

You have to agree it’s silly at some level… come on; PUA, NLP, Pheromones, penis enlargement, height increase, pills that will make you this and that, love potions and what not… We want to CONTROL everything!!

The thought of being able to influence others, without their knowledge really excites me… maybe it’s sick - but YES, lets be honest - to have some degree of ‘control’ over other people is an exciting thought.

Really, you don’t need pheromones at all. Placebo effect? Perhaps, to some degree YES. If so I still love the effect.

I bodybuild with modest effects, I get my hair cut regularly, buy designer jeans, shirts, wear pheromones, eat protein powder, multi-tabs, shower twice a day, constantly aware of any potential hits around me - OMG was that a hit, did she boob me? She spoke to me - OMG that’s a hit! Thank you a314!

Come to think of it - what have I become? What happened to John Wayne? Why do I drift away from my ideals? Where a spade is a spade and not a pre-written PUA scripts and shit. Where a man is a man, not some self-absorbed prick in clouds of synthetics.

6

I’m not sure I would put PUA and NLP in the same category. PUA still requires you to take action. (So do mones but many newbies think of mones as a replacement for social skills as opposed to an enhancer) NLP is a psychological tool that in addition to having uses in covert persuasion, can be used for self help and self transformation. But it’s a conscious form of WORK that creates self awareness and mindfulness. Not quite instant confidence in a pill.

It is, but that’s not really what pheromones do. They communicate qualities about yourself to people on an UNconscious level, that hopefully supports what you’re trying to communicate on a more overt conscious level. If you’re trying to act “alpha” and wearing A314 you’ll have a better chance of people accepting your behavior as legitimate alpha qualities as opposed to you being a “try hard”. But it won’t have people knocking down your door wanting you to be the leader of their social circle even though you’re sitting sulking in the corner averting your eyes from everyone.

Nobody “needs” them true, and I don’t doubt there is some degree of placebo effect. At least in as much as if the person wearing the product goes out believing in it’s effectiveness and expecting it to work. They’ll have a confident demeanor and approach interactions with positive expectations. Confidence and optimism and very attractive qualities, and a strong frame is a contagious thing. Which means that they’ll have a much better chance of seeing their expectations realized. That doesn’t discount the effectiveness of the pheromones in a legitimate sense however.
I look at it this way, 3 identical situations and three men of equal attractiveness.
First guy is shy, pessimistic and mone free reluctantly makes his approaches.
I’d wager he gets a fairly low success rate, say 40% of the women respond favorably and then only if he’s persistant and works hard at it.

Second guy, is confident and makes his approach with positive expectations due to placebo effect ONLY…I’d predict he gets double the success rate of the first guy if not a bit more, I’d say he gets an 80% success rate

Third guy has the positive and optimistic mindset of the second guy and is wearing an actual legit pheromone product. I’ll estimate his success rate at being slightly higher than the second guys, say boost his rate to 90% and he’ll find those successes come a little easier. He CAN still blow himself out but it would require some pretty bonehead moves and lack of social intelligence on his part.

So the placebo effect IS a factor, but when congruence is there mones do provide a legitimate edge that wouldn’t be there otherwise.

But that’s it, it’s an edge that enhances game, or depending on the product enhances your professional image. But an edge is not a replacement. A man can take roids all he wants but if the only exercise he gets is getting off the couch to look for the remote control he’s never going to become a world class athlete. On the other hand a guy can seriously train for the Olympics AND take roids and beat another drug free athlete in the hundred meters by less than one full second. But that one second makes the difference between a gold medal and world record or relative obscurity. Same with mones

All very good things that should be done anyway imo. But as I stated in my original post I’m not down on pheromones. I just have concerns about how many different applications people look for with them. It’s a social lubricant and no more imo. Not an instant personal transformation, and not a line of products to influence your own personal behavior. Using a pheromone to help create a sense of authority when you plan on acting congruent with it isn’t exactly the same as using pheromones to induce bizarre dreams, or help with studying for exams.

I think we’re getting a bit off the subject a bit but that’s cool. I get a lot of people that look down on PUA theory as they feel it’s too artificial. What I explain to them is that NOTHING about who you are or how you interact socially is natural. It’s all learned behavior. Once upon a time your only method of communicating was to smile when happy, or cry when you wanted something…somebody taught you how to speak…and you learned more words to communicate your thoughts and feelings in greater detail and with more effectiveness. As social animals there are rules both official and unspoken, somebody tought you manners, and politeness so as to help ensure your being accepted by the social circles you would run with. Learning how to approach women with PUA tactics in my opinion, is no different than learning how to present yourself favorably during a job interview. It’s still you, just a systematic way to present the best of you.
And a shot of Ammo helps to lend a little legitimacy to the image you’re presenting. No more,no less.

7

Getting mones to work for you require a conscious form of WORK as well, with PUA, and what have you. Listen, Im not bashing PUA or NLP or pheromones - I simply find it all a bit silly on some basic level - even though I don’t pretend not to be just as much part of the silliness, so to speak. :slight_smile:

Im not down pheromones either. If I was I wouldn’t buy them. I do however find it a bit silly nontheless. Everything combined. Spraying yourself with pheromones LOL - come on man! IT IS A BIT SILLY FOR TWO MEN TO SIT AND DISCUSS WHAT SYNTHETIC PHEROMONES TO USE!!:smiley:
Maybe it’s just me.

Thanks for keeping the discussion on track. LOL. No it’s your thread, and sorry if I strayed.

Listen, I think I agree with you on most levels, my post was simply questioning myself and the way I choose to live my OWN life, and I was thinking out loud.

Im not bashing anyones desire to improve themselves by PUA, NLP, Pheromones etc. I use pheromones myself and see their benefits :slight_smile:

8

Nah, I can see how a topic like this can snowball. I myself originally started this as a reply to another post but went so off base from what was originally asked by the op I decided to make it a new topic just for itself. It does cause some self analysis doesn’t it. Where is the line drawn? How much is too much? When does a tool become a crutch, At what point does trying to convey an image become manipulative and unethical? Some might argue that if me wearing pheromones to convey an image of a sexually desirable alpha male is unethical, fake or manipulative, then so might be cosmetic surgery like breast enhancement…changing a natural feature about ones self in order to influence a natural reaction in other peoples perception..communicating something about yourself that’s not accurate to potential mates.

I question myself on occasion and moreso within the past few days since writing this post, wondering if I’m being a hypocrite by saying these things and still using pheromones and searching experimenting for variations of mixes that will work.

I try to convince myself that MY WAY of wanting a simple all around mix that can be fairly consistent and only switched from work mode to play mode with a few minor changes is somehow better than the cookbook of sometimes radically different mixes for any occasion that some people practice. Which is probably a bit hypocritcal and judgmental on my part.

9

I became somewhat depressed yesterday, and actually lay in bed thinking about this thread, and I take great pleasure in the fact, that you didn’t seem to take offense, as I feel that my two posts brought nothing to the table for such a promising thread.

As I wrote these posts, for some reason I suddenly became more and more depressed and started to wonder about what the hell I was doing. I then bashed everything out of frustration. And I have even had good results from mones.

To excel in different aspects of life IS a good thing - and pheromones def. helps along the way, and your wish for a good mix is the same wish I have. But you know that feeling sometimes, where you just stop and question yourself and what you do?

I guess thinking about life and why we do as we do, and what’s important in life, can be a pain sometimes when your ideals are far from congruent with your actions.

Thanks for being so openheartly in your last post.

10

If one reads tacitus’ older posts here and elsewhere and then experiments deeply with some of the stranger molecules, one develops a sense of wonder at the sheer complexity of the effects produced by pheromones. TAC, TAF and Meo-Est do some very strange things. I have no doubt that one of the effects of A314 on many people will in fact make it easier to stay on a diet, and to feel like one is a good enough person to deserve to do so.

No doubt it is foolish to think of each one being like a tool adapted perfectly to some particular purpose. But it is surely natural that newer users take time to grasp the nature of pheromones and the shifts in states that they bring.

11

I have to completely with Agree with every point brought up by RADMAN. I wouldn’t put myself in the category of casual user, but I’m not an every day user either. I don’t feel compelled to utilize molecules for purposes other than those of a social nature. That being said I’ve experimented with different molecules in conjunction with recreational drugs, but I’ve never used pheromones ritualistically to treat or act as cognitive behavioral aids.

12

nice dude, very informative