I’d appreciate anyone’s view on how they perceive faith as a whole. I welcome all fanatics and extreme cynics. I ask because I went to a christian service today because a friend asked me to go with them. I obliged her but later on I felt kind of ambushed as I ended up having a one on one with a pastor. Frankly I’m not particularly happy with what the friend did but I know I should have expected something like that. Its got me thinking whether or not embracing God really is whats missing in my life (Never thought I’d even consider it).
my thoughts in a nutshell: if G-d is all around us, why should we have to go to a specific building to worship him. I used to attend temple regularly but I have left my temple (jewish). Too much bullshit.
My experience is a little different. I grew up raised in a very strict Catholic background, during my more rebellious years I went through an Agnostic almost Atheistic period, then even went into older pagan religions like Asatru. Eventually I found my way back to the church. Oddly enough even though by most traditionalist standards I’m a very poor Catholic and I question or outright disagree with a few of the churches views on many issues, something about it just feels right to me.
2000GT is right in that you don’t HAVE to attend regular service in a sanctified structure or building, I simply choose to. One reason is that many of the Judeo/Christian teachings are based not only about my relationship with God, but with my fellow man. Attending service is as much a social function of like minded people coming together as it is for prayer and meditation.
You may or may not get something from organized religion, you may simply find some degree of inner peace in simply finding your own relationship with God by whatever face and name you recognize him by on your own. I’m not a missionary so converting people is not something I even aspire to. Way I figure, if God is infinite and omnipotent than it’s pretty arrogant of me to assume I should act as his PR man. I figure everyone can find their own way to spiritual contentment on their own same as I did.
Personally one of my biggest questions to arise during my own crisis of faith was the notion that the bible says that only through the one God can anyone be saved. Yet there have been literally billions of people over the centuries that have been born and died condemned by that definition as the opportunity to find God was never presented to them. The conclusion I came to was that we as humans were in our arrogance placing limitations on something infinite. God, I decided came to all people at various points in their histories wearing a face they would recognize and with a name they would understand…reading the similarities in the messages was key. This would be considered heresy by the church and by most Christian denominations, but as I said…I stay because it just feels like home. I don’t always agree with my family but in the end they are still my family, does that even make any sense?
The stumbling block so many people run into with Christianity and religion in general is attaching faith in a divine being, with the flawed actions of men. They tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Whether it’s Televangelists pocketing millions of dollars from little old ladies donating their social security checks, Catholic priests molesting young boys, Mormon traditionalists practicing polygamy with underage brides or radical islamic terrorism…all actions carried out by men who are flawed, one needn’t dismiss anything other than their behavior.
In the end you may believe in God, or Science, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu etc. So long as the path you choose feels right to you and gives you a sense of security and contentment than you’ve found something special.
You seem curious and I urge you to explore that curiosity, but don’t take anyones word including mine as being the be all end all truth. Ultimately when you find the right path it will just feel like it and you’ll know…the trick is to take the time to look for that path.
I don’t feel a need to believe. I’m open to the supernatural, but take a “Seeing is believing” attitude. To me, there is no discomfort in being undecided about things I havent experienced yet. It motivates me to explore further.
I aim to live my life according to my own values, if I can look in the mirror and be proud of my actions, it’s good for me, in that I am my own judge. This is what brings me a sense of inner peace and the fruits of having invested in what I value most. Making the most of my life here and now is my priority, as an afterlife and the conditions to get there are uncertain.
Faith is just a belief or trust. You do not need to join a church or join any religious group to have faith.
The question is what do you have faith in ? Are you thinking of attending because of something the pastor told you ? Was what he told you by chance fear based ? Priests, pastors etc etc are leaders, they are the ultimate experts in influence. Do you want to go where he/she wishes to lead you ? Do you feel the only way to find god is to follow that path ?
I believe there is a power greater then ourselves. I call that power God but I dont view that power in the same way as most people. Many people need a structured religion to find faith in something but looking outside yourself is not where you find it in my opinion. It begins within you. That is where god is.
God gave you free will. Religion takes away free will. It was not created by one true god it was created by the ego of “men”. That is what it was designed to do from the very beginning. To control the masses. Thousands of years later its the greatest influence and form of control there is.
Dont be confused into thinking that if you dont attend church, services or choose a religious group that you dont have faith in god. Priests and pastors are just men. “Church” is just a building. God doesn’t enter it until you do.
This is it in a nutshell. I would go a step further and say as long as what you choose brings you closer to that power within you, a understanding and peace of self then you found something special. If it comes from peace you have embraced god. If it comes from fear you have embraced religion. Dont confuse the two.
Tisha
I couldn’t have said it better myself. 
Bella
With what Radman said I’ve considered it a lot and I’d be the same way. I think no matter what I’d always have duality within myself concerning beliefs. The older Pastor when he gave the sermon struck a bad chord with me when he made a comparsion between the boxer Manny Pacquiao and Muhammad Ali. I dont always take things word for word but the infered meaning I got from what he was saying told me that Muhammad Ali got Parkinson’s Dz because he wasn’t humble and didn’t have that relationship with god and that Manny was doing this well to this day because he did have that sort of relationship.
I can deal with the idea of being condemned to hell or whatever for not accepting that “gift” from god but this “got what was coming to him” attitude really soured my outlook when considering whether or not I’d want to join. Thankfully even as influential as the younger pastor was I’m not convinced completely. The reason why I dont think I should join is because it already has been seen that I disagree strongly with that particular part of the service and I know that won’t be the end of it either. I feel like I’d have to be completely brainwashed to be a good worshipper in terms of the others that go there (My friend used to be a nun and you should see her house…)
I refuse to do anything out of fear especially of the unknown. I promised myself I wouldnt join a congregation for cute girls or social acceptance (I think going to church would give me a false sense of that which my old self would really want)
Thanks for the input guys. In short I know I’m a good natured person for the most part and while it is plausible that the best possible version of myself lies within embracing faith I really dont think it could make me a better person than I already am. I feel like joining I’d deal with massive amounts of hypocrisy as I let them spout out things that would have me speaking out if I werent so tactful and polite about everything.
OlAm, if that’s what the older pastor inferred about Ali…he was mistaken. Bless him. 
This from a man who proposes himself as a liaison and “speaker” for God? Boy, is he sending the wrong message! If you want to fear something, it’s messages like this.
Ali is very religious. He was and is a devout Muslim and follower of Islam. They don’t embrace Jesus/God per say, they believe in Allah. Allah is their God.
Ali had a very long career. He developed Parkinson’s disease because of years of being pummeled in the ring. True, nobody was able to touch Manny/The Destroyer. He is a great fighter but fought in lower weight divisions, never heavy weight. Remember Ali fought in heavy weight division. Ali also had a much longer career. And late in his career he was rope-a-dopin’ a lot to tire out his opponents. I might also add that Ali fought and won hella more fights than Manny! Floyd Patterson, Sunny Liston, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Smokin’ Joe Frazier, to name a few. So, there, lol. They were BIG men. It was like gettin’ hit by a freight train.
I wouldn’t join any group where my fundamental beliefs aren’t shared by the others. What’s the point? Besides, I don’t need a middle man to speak for or interpret/decipher for me, I have a direct line.
Maybe the pastor needs to have some sense knocked into his head. Then he might realize that his faith in God has nothing to do with scrambled brains/Parkinson’s or warts on his ass.
If ya wanna join something because you want to meet people/girls…howz about joining a book club or taking a cooking class instead?
Amen.
Bella
I believe that all of us have a desire to worship and that comes because there is in fact a higher being who created us.
My mom said from since I was a little girl I was always interested in going to church and worshipping. I have since then gone through and been in many religious searching for the truth.
I don’t believe that if a person , persons did something wrong even a pastor that means that what the church teaches is wrong and in the end you have to look at the doctrines.
I have taken my view of religion , the world and everything going on to a different level because of certain things I have found and fallen back and decided to do even more research.
Right now I will call myself a student believing that there is a higher being and truth out there but the truth is such that if there is one spec of error in the doctrine it is false and I am seeking to find a faith where the teachings has no corruption.
In this world where I believe everything even the weather is tampered with I wonder if I will ever find that.
All in all I think that the creator left the truth for us to find if we take the time to do so and if you seek sincerely He will lead you to it.
You sure know a lot about boxing 
I dont really read enough books to join a book club. Actually believe it or not I’m in a baking class right now. A older columbian lady took a liking to me and I didnt know how to “deal” with it
considering I’m quite a bit younger than her. Theres a younger spanish girl in there that seems sweet and approachable. I wore mones in there like I normally do to make a good impression but I always end up with the dilemna of initial attraction lol.
Anyway I appreciate your input. You and Tisha have really won me over these past couple weeks. I know Steve and others have said the forum has changed and I know I wasnt here long enough to see the shift in tides among users but you guys still manage to bring some warm and fuzzies to this place even if I’m the only one experiencing them
You see thats the thing. I want to be able to embrace everyone with love. I know its cheesy Obviously there will always be people I dislike maybe even despise whether in my past or present but I’m talking in general. I feel like embracing faith is like finding the right woman. While she may have little flaws or imperfections I love her all the more for them and would change nothing.
I met a woman that sounded like she was from the Caribbean while I was on cruise in Alaska. I think she said she was originally from Africa when we chatted for a bit. I cant explain it but the way she was could only be described as serene. She explained to me that shes had bad encounters with people in the past but she doesnt want to taint her spirit with such ill thoughts and animosity. She has always remained a inspiration to me even though I only knew her for a few days. Women are so wonderful at times
I think I’m feeling too romantic right now
Let us embrace this and get the CTTM 2.
I think she spoke wisely. We are human beings and the flaw is there and we can never be perfect so the wanting to be or the journey you take not to just be perfect for being perfect sake but the journey you take in order to please your Creator says so much and that will be taken into consideration.
I don’t believe in god, I have had my phases. But I am skeptical and open to it, I just need more proof. But that’s what faith is, listen to George carlin on religion, he has different views everytime. Why? Because he likes to make people think. Watch religulous as well. Idk but if there is a god and in Christian faith he created me in his image, then god knows who I am what I’m doing and why I have my doubts. All in all if god does exist I beleive we are pretty chill. I don’t have to go to a church to learn the values and norms I follow. But many do, and that’s great because it is needed. If I can look back and then see where I am now and that I’m proud of it, and where I’m going, then "god(s) " and I have done well.
As I like to say.
Learn from the past, don’t dwell and regret it. Live in the moment and cherish the beauty around you. Set plans for your future and work hard now to make it easier then.
You can’t move forward if your chained to the past.
The Church of Monday Night Football is always good. Just kidding.
Your life experiences has always given you faith in yourself. Don’t loose faith. ODG
Dang that was harsh LOL I knew fear was a factor in what was influencing your question. We create our own reality and Ali created his when he made the choice to be a boxer. Taking that many hits to the head over the years does damage. He created his own affliction as we all do. He used his free will and made a choice. In that way you can say “god” did create the Parkinson’s because we are all a part of the collective energy that is god but it was not out of spite for not kneeling and making the sign of the cross before each match.
My opinion…
Hell is not a place its a state of mind as is heaven. Heaven is peace, joy harmony and Hell is anguish torment and suffering. They both exist inside us in life and in death. You choose where your thoughts and actions go and in doing so choose where your spirit go’s. That is free will. The only hell that exists is the one we create in our own minds and souls with our actions.
That answers my first question. What do you have faith in ? You have faith in peace and love so the way I see it your a man who has embraced “god”. If this is how you live your life then no god can ask for anything more. Not everyone who sits in a church pew with the masses can say that.
On a side note do you know why the call the church ritual “mass” ? Think about it. It will come to you.
Thank you Dont choose a religion or faith to appease anyone but yourself. If you want to meet girls join a club. I find how a man conducts himself and treats himself and others far more important and attractive then whether he sits in church once a week.
Tisha
I know a little about boxing, lol. And I know a lot about when someone (i.e., the pastor) is dumpin’ a load of sh*t. I’ve followed Ali’s career and know that he believes in and worships “God.”
Ummmm, I love men who know how to cook!
Don’t mistake the older woman’s liking you for sexual interest. I say that because I’ve taken younger men under my wing, that I have absolutely no sexual interest in, because I like them and they like me back. If you like her be friendly. Ya never know, she might have a hot daughter who’s looking for a nice guy like you. If she approaches you sexually and wants you for herself…RUN!!! 
As far a the younger girl…move mister!
Thank you, OlAm. That’s very sweet of you to say.
I agree that the hell you live is here on earth and is mostly of your own making. People only have the power to make you miserable if you let them. I ain’t into misery and eventually they get kicked to the curb. So, if I continue to let their negativity influence me, it’s on me. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em.
I choose to have faith in myself and those I love and trust. I choose to have faith in those who love and trust me. I choose.
I’m not gonna get into my religious upbringing. I’ll just say that, from what they bombarded me with, I caught on early and rather quickly. By the time I was eight, I had it figured out, lol. Seriously. I was a mature child, astute, and simply listened to what was said and the actions that followed the words. They didn’t match up, at all. Oh boy, I could tell you stories about attending a religious school. Talk about brainwashing! I’ll spare all of us, lol.
Please understand, I don’t think it’s all bad. Organized religion holds it’s place in society as a whole. There are many reasons people choose to join a church/synagogue/mosque. It’s a congregation of like minded people. From my experience, there isn’t a lot of room for independent thought and it’s seldom appreciated. They expect dissension it to a degree. They may “listen”, to a point, and even “understand” but their objective is to enlighten/correct you. That just doesn’t work for me because to question is natural and isn’t wrong. Nor is it wrong to disagree. I have soooo been there.
That’s how I feel. It’s amazing how some people equate goodness with going to church. Nothing could be further from the truth. The hypocrisy is mind numbing.
Going to church is like buying a used car. If you don’t like one salesman or the deal he offers, there are plenty of others to choose from. There are many ways to be spiritual. It’s up to you.
Bella
A little input on both side.
Olfact, why he said Manny was like that, is because in third world countries, the Church is used as a fearful tool to keep people in check. Now I’m not saying Manny is a bad guy, he’s actually good, but it is because of the brainwashing that people give that can sometimes skew what the true essence of a religion is.
Growing up Catholic, and still being a Catholic, I don’t go to Church. It’s not that I hate it or I am against it, it is because every day I try and practice what the core teachings are. I try to be genuinely nice to others and treat them how I want to be treated. I learned this in HS when I was in one of the strictest Catholic schools out here. They didn’t push the rituals, but instead they pushed what they meant, and how it pertains to us. To this day, I would really only attend mass over there because the way they do their services are a heck of a lot better than anywhere I’ve been.
My opinion from reading what you posted is that, these type of stupid analogies that ministers put, is all fear based. And I feel it should never be about fear, it should be about kindness and love and that’s what really the majority of the world’s religion teaches.
I am going to reply before I what other people have said. This is what I believe.
I believe that there is a God. He lives in a place called Heaven (unseen). I believe the term “God” is actually a form of government. Much like the US Government is executive, judicial, and legleslative. God is Father, Son, Spirit. Man is Soul, spirit, body. I believe that Jesus was God in man form. Meaning he encompassed the entire form of the government in one person. In the Bible it says that he was born with the government on his shoulders. He is also said to have the highest name and to be King. These are all political terms.
I believe the Bible is the closest thing that we have to the Truth without having Jesus here on Earth to say what is true and what is not. Therefore I do not dispute it. I do however realize that it was put together in the second century by a group of men in a meeting. I can only hope that they had some divine inspiration as to what should and shouldn’t be included.
I also believe that God having created everything and ruling over Heaven decided to create our Universe and our planet for his enjoyment and put man here to rule in his place as a Regent King. I believe that Adam had full authority on Earth and that the fruit that he and Eve ate had nothing to do with anything, but the act of eating the fruit was the problem. Up until that point Man had never disobeyed God. When he ate the fruit he rebelled. The term sin means to rebel. In rebelling Adam was kicked out of The Garden of Eden (the Embassy on Earth) and lost his title and authority. Jesus was born to be King on Earth because only Man has authority to rule Earth. His gift was to be punished for our rebellion and to restore The Kingdom of Heaven on earth. This can be seen in his very first message “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is near”. By repenting, or changing our minds, and submitting to him as King and therefore doing his will we become restored citizens of the Kingdom.
The Bible is the constitution and history of The Kingdom on Earth. It tells us how to behave, what the culture is like, what the laws are, and how to petition the government and the King.
Now I will read what everyone else has to say.
Oh one more thing. Be careful with churches. I go to one, however I have found that a lot of the things preached in the pulpit are very subjective! Some of them don’t come from the book that they say they are studying. They believe in legalism. I believe in culture. The Bible is suppose to show us how to have that culture.