I’m just curious as to whether they are any born-again Christians on this site who are also useing the pheromone products, or contemplating using them?
Hmm… I think it’s safe to say I hear crickets chirping… so I’ll bite.
I’d be surprised if there were alot of “Born-Again” Christians using pheromone products. Most people in general don’t know what they are, or what they do. Add onto that fact that it seems that pheromones attract primarily people that are either pickup artists (and that’s not a Redneck thing for a guy that paints his Chevy Silverado to look like Dale Earnhardt’s “Number 31”, neither) - the “seduction community” (wannabe Lotharios), self-improvement nuts or neo-hippies/New Agers, I’d honestly be very surprised. Still, this is a free, uncensored website (for the most part), and I think it’s theologically neutral/secular, to say the least, but if you are the least bit squeamish/prudish, you might want to cover your ears, Okalee Dokalee?
Billions of Christians use pheromones every day, no doubt. Just like most people use their alimentary canals every day, too. Now, the question is… is it theologically sound to intentionally modify your “natural” pheromone signature? People modify it unintentionally every day by bathing/showering. Just my 2 cents, I won’t claim to be “born-again”.
Ok, there have been several of you posts that bothered me a bit, but I only responded to the one where you said that pheromones were like hypnosis.
But, this one really offends me! And my bet is that there are a number of others who will also agree.
Believe what you want, but this group of people are the most awesome people I have ever met, and are almost like a second family to me. The vast majority of folks here are not PUA’s, Neo-Hippies, self-improvement nuts or new agers, but are as normal as anyone else you are likely to meet, and just looking for a bit of an edge in life.
Billions of shristians use pheromones everyday? I have a hard time with this one too. Source of information please!
Sorry, Mark… that whole thing was a bit tongue-in-cheek. 
I did not mean to cast dispersions on anybody lifestyles, but from a certain POV, that’s exactly how some pheromones users might appear. That doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with that POV. I think it’s great there’s alot of diversity and opinions on this forum from many different areas all over the world. And no, you don’t always see that in real life, I hate to be contrarian but not everybody sees that in their day to day lives (“wierd” would be a wrong description, I prefer to think of the people you can find here as “interesting” and “different”. And I’m not being tongue in cheek.)
I definitely would say I’m more of a neo-hippy or self-improvement nut, BTW.
Oh… and Christians using pheromones? Well, maybe not “consciously” using them, but last time I checked, everybody gets BO, right?
OK, apology accepted. 
You may very well be right about the assertions made about the average people who use pheromones…outside of this forum and a few other sites. But, the people here and at the few other sites are among the most normal people you’re likely to find, and are just trying to better their lives and social situations.
And, as they are like family to me, I will fiercely defend them, one and all. Well, one and 99.9% of them anyway. 
I am actually surprised that I was the first one to step in and chastise you.
As to the christian phero question, I am pretty sure that Luke was asking about synthetic pheromones. But, yeah ok, you got me on that one!
I guess you’ve got me though, because I am not attracted to hanging out with “ordinary” people with very mundane stories that the most interesting thing they can say about themselves is how thoroughly ordinary they are in their aspriations and assumptions. Maybe you think of yourself as ordinary, but I don’t see it. You have an interesting story for yourself, or at least you have an ordinary story you make interesting, take your pick. Some people can’t do that, because they haven’t sat down and thought very muchabout what they value in life (as Aristotle said, “The unexamined life is a life not worthy of living”), or they do a very poor job of articulating and living by those values.
I admit, I’m a bit elitist in my tastes with people, inasmuch as I’ve learned to start protecting myself from people that just bring me down, but I don’t think I’m misanthropic. I think we, people in general, all can do better than we do sometimes, it’s not beyond our power to live a better life.
Ok, I never used the word ordinary. And I never claimed that the I or the members here are ordinary either…they probably wouldn’t be here if they were.
I said normal, with the intention of discrediting or casting aside any notion that they are societal rejects, or have beliefs far to the left or right of what may be considered normally accaptable.
I consider myself to be an in progress work of art, carefully crafted over many years but never to be finished, and similar to, but unique of anything else ever crafted.
I’m pretty sure I am, at least, not “normal”. I’m sort of OK with not being normal, actually. Maybe it’s not a question of being normal or not normal, or a question of having different beliefs (I think we all have fairly diverse political and other beliefs here), but a question of people who are open to new experiences.
BTW, I deleted the previous post because I figured I could try to make a much more succint point that would be less open to interpretation; I am a real motor mouth sometimes. It also doesn’t help that I don’t do nearly enough conversing face-to-face with real people, and tend to try and convey my ideas somewhat “academicly”.
That’s exactly what I was asking about. But don’t worry, I’m smart enough to know you are not going to use Ammo and Turn Up the Heat and go to church services – I’d use social pheromones to go (i.e. to spray on after service - like Instant Opener - and maybe one spray of Instant Female Magic) – I wouldn’t put anything during a service as it would be too distracting and not right.
But seriously – the point here is that as a Christian, is it of God to use synthetic pheromones, or does this fall into the ‘sorcery and witchraft’ category but this time in a stealthy scientific way? Or perhaps it’s just as much influence as wearing a good bottle of perfume and dressing up?
You see, the way the product is being described it is really just an enhancer, rather than as a magic potion or spell directed at someone to get a specific result. For example, if someone liked a particular girl, and paid money for some love-spell to be cast on her to make her attracted to a guy, then that would obviously be witchraft – and I don’t think that using a pheromone would be on the same level as that. Witchcraft can actually bend wills of people – but something like this does not change the will of anyone, but just sort of makes your presence known or cues you in socially so to speak.
However, there is something that doesn’t seem to add up and I cant put my finger on it. It’s not against my religion to use a perfume (although some people have argued perfumes are not of God), since many women in fact use perfumes – so why cant guys? These are just special perfumes that do the same jobs that other perfumes would do, just in a different way.
Well, normalcy covers a pretty vast area: What is normal? Is it having 10 fingers and 10 toes, 2 arms, 2 legs , a head and a torso? Is it blending into society and never causing a wave? Is it not standing out in a crowd?
Or is normal considered to be not having beliefs or opinions that are considered radically unacceptable by mainstream society? Which by the way, was how I was defining normal in this circumstance.
And, you have already answered your own question! Pheromones are not witchcraft and will not make anybody do or feel antyhing they are not already feeling, they will simplay enhance what is already in their minds, and can help to ease the transition.
Luke,
It’s a good question.
I think if you wanted to practice witchcraft that peromones would provide a powerful tool to enhance your craft.
Likewise I think that if you wanted to live a more sacred existence pheromones would provide a powerful tool toward that end.
If you use pheromones to seduce a woman you don’t care for and get her to fall in love with you just so you can feel powerful by breaking her heart, that would be evil.
If you use pheromones to attract a woman you are seriously interested in or to bring joy to your relationship with your wife, that would be good.
If you A314 to gain the respect of an employer and convince him to hire you to do a job you haven’t the skills to do, that would be wrong – and stupid!
If you use A314 to gain the respect necessary to make the most of your abilities – to everyone’s benefit – that would be good.
Seeing pheromones as perfume might be a little too narrow. In the animal kingdom, biologists refer to pheromones as a means of communication. Influence can be positive or negative. Respect other people’s free will and don’t lie (or mislead).
Sincerely,
Weird Warren
Luke, My take is that all things are given to us by God’s design, we may use them for the glory of life or through deceit for the glory of death. It is up to us. 2 Corinthians chapter 4 is my reference for this but you might read it differently.
Weird Warran,
I’ve read through your entire post, however, the intent or use of a product doesn’t make a conclusion, within my religious world-view, of whether or not withcraft, sorcery or magic is involved in the pheromone products. Whether it is used for good purposes (white witchraft – wiccan, etc…) or evil purposes (black withcraft, black magic, etc…) is immaterial, because the medium which is used is tainted or belongs to the devil. Believe it or not, even the devil can put together good things in people’s lives, but he usually wants their souls or has some other evil masterminded agenda, and there is no peace at all.
The point I am making is that good or evil coming out of a neutral tool doesn’t say anything about the tool since people can use witchraft or sorcery for good purposes too, so the ends do not justify the means.
Does this include withcraft? If you read the Old Testament, and throughout the Bible, there are quite a few forbidden zones, and withcraft and sorcery is one of them.
In this case, the pheromone products seems omniously close to the biblical defination of sorcery – the concept of sorcery means using drugs of some sort to change your reality or the reality of your environment, and this could be an aromatic drug.
I’m really do not wish to be paranoid about this issue, but the fact that I really do not see any serious born-again Christians who are devout with the Lord posting about using this product is a bit wierd, or that I’m worried about my mom, who is a devout Christian, finding out about this - even the A314, which has nothing to do with women or lust, where I cant tell her about puts a red-flag a bit in my mind that something doesn’t add up completely. This is the last internal debate I have to have before really buying these into these products or the concept. (I’ve already ordered Phelure - so I am trying out pheromones and haven’t totally dismissed them).
To me, it seems on the surface to be a watered down version (to the point of being safe?) of witchery - using an araomatic magic charm to influence people’s behaviour around you, and I know whatever is influencing the behaviour is NOT the Holy Spirit.
What convinced me of this new view is this post by Warren – read it carefully:
Social Proof Pheromone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker view post
I don’t know, my concept is there is some sort of psychic energy wavelength which may resonate certain things out with other people, and pheromones are a chemical basis of artificially simulating that resonance to some extent, but it’s never going to be as good as the same thing.
For example, you are at a different energy level once you are engaging a girl, or a girl is fixing attention on you through space (i.e. thinking about you), you may be aware there is some thought being directed at you.
Or, if you are engaging a girl, then because you are at another mental wavelength, then the reality is affected or something like that, sort of like in secret.
I see a woman maybe twenty yards away, or farther. She reacts to my pheromones. She reacts in a way that I know she wouldn’t were I not wearing pheromones. Even if it is scientifically possible for phero molecules waft that far in her direction and be detected by her, how could she ever know that they were coming from me and not the guy standing next to me? But she makes eye contact with me, not him. If the pheromones are effecting my behavior, my mannerisms, posture, facial expressions then how likely is it that she is really going to notice from that far away?
I have a difficult time conceptualizing the action of pheromones without assuming some kind of extradementional effect. It would explain why it is so dificult to prove the VNO senses pheromones if some of the requisite physiology exists outside of the three dimensions of space we commonly recongize. It strengthens my suspicions when I read about people doing P83 and hearing their partner moan before it happens. Or they say that they just knew what each other wanted. I don’t think you get that deep of a rapport without some kind of spiritual/psychic/transdimentional connection. I haven’t read anything on this forum before that discusses that kind of possibility. And since P83 is out-of-stock right now I guess it’ll be a while before I try to replicate that particular experience.
I know this offends some you hard core traditional scientist types out there, but I just don’t see other realistic possibilities. Some of you write about binaural effects. The Monroe Institute certainly gets what you might call psychic or clarivoyant activity – even psychokinesis – from their tapes. I have a friend who does what she calls energy medicine. I haven’t been able to interest her in pheromones, but she is basically addicted to essential oils aroma therapy. They are supposed to, among other things, open different chakras including the third eye. I have on occasion, during her demonstrations, caught glimpses of things happening far away and later found that what I saw was accurate.
Does anybody know if there are pheromones which have been demonstrated to improve Remote Viewing or Remote Influencing capabilities? They are definitely dewscribed as helping some people to meditate.
Notice – Remote Viewing/Remote Influence/mediatate, chalrevoyancy,
third eye, etc… these are all occultic paranormal terms that are associated with withcraft – you can not get any more blatant than that.
As a scientific product – it’s interesting, but what I’m reading here is really freaking me out, it seems more than science is involved here.
I see it as Occam’s Razor (a principle put forth by Friar William of Ockham - “any explanation should make as few assumptions as possible, disregarding any explanations that make no difference in observable predictions of a phenomenon”). You could believe that witchcraft is behind pheromones… but there is a simpler explanation that doesn’t involve the supernatural; they are just smell messages- nonverbal communication.
In order to believe that witchcraft is behind pheromones, you’ld have to believe that an untold number of animal species were under the influence of witchcraft for unknown purposes (umm… why would witches or devils be interested in pigs mating or animals finding food? If anything, this level of involvement suggests a more natural/productive end- a religious person might even say this was part of the divine order). I just see the scientific explanation as the simpler and less complicated one.
Now, the ethics of pheromone modification might have a little more weight, with me. Is it right to modify what is “natural”? I think many religions have opinions on what is natural, and what is not. If you decide your religious views conflict with modifying what your body naturally makes, I can respect that, even if I don’t think I’d personally agree with it. Just keep in mind, every day you take a shower or bath you are deciding “hm… I don’t like my pheromones, I think I’ll get rid of them”.
Well, I don’t know, I’ve been doing my own checking on the internet. Just doing a yahoo search on pheromones and witchcraft or love potions. You’ll be surprized at how many websites which promote withcraft are also promoting this product or how many word associations are made. This is not even looking at a Christian website, but going directly to the horses’ mouth. Now granted there are a different brand of pheromones other than the one peddled here - and I haven’t seen any witchraft sites so far peddline the adroitics brand of prodcut.
There is also another theory out there that, the mere fact that you want to influence someone’s behaviour for your own self-interest, and making some sort of application to do so, in itself constitutes witchcraft of some form, or at the very least, the spirit of witchraft/sorcery. So, the liquid being applied becomes sort of like an incantation or spell on the wearer and those around in the context of witchery.
Luke, we attempt to influence other peoples behavior every day through normal conversation. Have you ever had a disagreement with somebody and tried to convince them you were right? Have you ever wanted to do something and asked someone else to come along?
As to making applications to assist in influencing others, it happens every day. Every commercial on TV and radio is an appliation that was made in an attempt to influence your behavior. The sign in front of every business is an attemtpt to get you to come inside and buy something.
Even the clothes you wear everyday are an attmept to convey a message about yourself and an influence on others.
Pheromones are a part of our biological and physiological makeup and a natural part of who and what we are. From a religious viewpoint, if God did not want or intend for us to communicate social signals and have an influence over others, why would he have made us to produce pheromones naturally? And, knowing that we do naturally emit pheromones, it could also be considered going against God’s wishes by washing them off every day.
Hows that for a conundrum?
Pheromones are most definitely not “love potions”. No magic involved. Even if somebody is attracted to you because of your pheromones, esp. for women, they will almost never act on that unless you are communicating in other ways with them. They don’t make you “irresistable”.
Some witches might use pheromones. Then again some might also use any number of other things that are perfectly ordinary. Pheromones aren’t related to witchcraft, if a witch/Wiccan uses pheromones it is because of their utility value to them, not because of any intrinsic connection. Maybe because of their beliefs they are more open to trying new things, but again, there’s no intrinsic connection to the supernatural.
You can use pheromones in a strictly selfish way, or you can use them for business, or you can use them for fun, or any combination of the above.
You are a real-estate agent, right? You should be in the business of influencing people every day, right?
People don’t always decide things logically. In fact, many people simply won’t. They go with their “gut”, just like our President (for good or ill). Wouldn’t you want to have a voice in that kind of decision-making? Maybe you really do know better than some other guy who only has his own interests in mind? In addition, if you learn about influence, it could help you spot when people are lying to you or decieving you, or otherwise not “saying what they mean”. I wish I was alot better at that a long time ago, it would have saved me alot of trouble and pain. Yes, it’s sort of a “seedy” grey world but if you can learn to read all the hidden things that people don’t say, you will be more capable of avoiding those people that are up to mischief.
Guys don’t go spraying themselves with Instant Female Magic or other synthetic Pheromones because they enjoy feeling depressed. Other people are benefiting from it (I even read on here one guy has been giving away bottles of Instant Female Magic to girls he knew that are feeling down.). You could argue that pheromones could be used to manipulate other people but for me and I think the rest of the people on this site, we use androtic products responsibly without the intention of ever manipulating someone. You could go deep into the ethics of influencing other people but I don’t see anything immoral about enhancing myself I’m not taking the free will of others away I’m just making myself better and I do it for there pleasure as much as my own. There are healthy and Unhealthy ways to use anything and the healthy way to use pheromones I believe is in a selfless manor hence the reason I used the giving away Instant Female Magic as an example. Most people here want to improve there lives but not at the expense of others, most want to improve the lives of others at the same time.
We are intelligent animals that have the ability to change what we communicate to others but not how we communicate. We can use Synthetic Hormones or we can wash all are natural Pheromones of, it’s in our control, however regardless of what we do we, like many other species are going to continue communicating through pheromones. My point is: It’s not witchcraft merely nature. Similar to how we can exploit our environment to suit our needs (build houses) we can appear how we want to appear to others (Synthetic pheromones).