Science Student -- need I say more?

18 months ago I ended a long-term relationship. That was with the third guy I’d ever dated. I use “dated” loosely, as with each of those three I’d just “fallen” into a relationship with someone I knew through friends. So I’d never actually been on a single date before August 2010. (I was happily single for eight months before I decided I needed to be proactive about dating.) Also, each time I thought that was the only person who could be interested; my only option, and so did not make a choice as to whom would be a good partner for me.

No one believes me, since I’m tall, fit, attractive, bright, and sociable. (Few people believe I’m a nerd when they meet me.) However, I grew up as a tomboy and a nerd (in the sense of bright and science-minded) in a tiny rural town. If that wasn’t awkward enough, I was a C-cup at age 11, when I was still very much a tomboy. Boys were idiots at that age, and I don’t get the “games” so I assumed their acting like jerks meant they hated me. That led to me doing nothing, not even kindergarten-handholding until I was 18 and a junior in college. I’ve never been asked for my number or a date, or given a number in real life, to this day. I’ve had classmates tell me my students were hitting on me – I was that oblivious. (I also have ADHD; a common symptom of this is missing social subtleties.)

I’m now in grad school, where most of my classmates are partnered or juvenile (I actually had one try to grab my breasts at a party), so I signed up for an online dating site, and have been on close to 100 first dates in 10 months. (I will go on a single date with anyone who asks, provided we’ve had some witty and serious conversations first. I have forced myself to do this, to learn about dating, to “practice,” as awful as that sounds. I don’t really have time for it, but I can’t leave it to chance anymore.

Now, I’m great at getting first dates, but I’ve had fewer than 10 second dates, (and with three people I’ve had 3 or 4 dates) even though I’d say ≥90% of my first dates were hours of interactive talking and laughing past when the food is gone, ordering of more drinks, or moving to additional locations. I get a lot of “You’re too amazing,” and “I don’t see long-term potential.” I’m not sure how this happens after all the hours of online and phone chatting that lead up to the meeting, when it seems to be going so naturally. (I’ve turned down second dates from maybe 5 guys, as I understand it takes time to ascertain compatibility.)

I don’t think I’m cut out for the modern dating scene – I’m too nice, i.e., not a “bitch” with “Rules,” and I’m not into “casual,” as I actually prefer to know someone before sleeping with them, but this can’t truly be done in a single date. What I want is for the guys I meet to want to slow down and see me more, to get to know each other, do things together, and enjoy the time together, because few successful relationships are built solely off of sex. (I’ve never accepted a drink or a date from someone I didn’t like.)

Most of the guys I date, and all the ones I truly click with are fellow undercover nerds (sincerely nice, but not meek) guys. I’m not into jerks or the “ripped” or sullen/loner types. (I like “active because it’s fun,” playful, happy ones.) I would like to get fewer emails from these types of guys, suggesting I “come over tonight” as their first message, and even deter the ones who are more “let’s just have fun” that I do meet (and can’t tell). I’m also nervous about getting into things too quickly, as I get too many guys who just want to see what “F” looks like, and I’m hypersensitive (in a very good way), as well have a “drive” stereotypical of a redhead. I want something real and rewarding.

A geographically-distant friend suggested Androtics to me as he uses them, and I ended up reading these forums to learn about products for women. I’m naturally happy and gregarious – I joke with strangers in line, on the train, etc. I’ve been known to sing and or dance in public (but not enough to bother anyone else) – I’m usually that happy. In fact, few people believe I’m shy, but I am when it comes to anything risky like letting someone know I’m into them. I do thus think the products that increase my openness might help me overcome this discontinuity in my flirtations.

I am unnerved by the number of products and the possible permutations. As a grad student, I do not have funds for superfluous items, but I do value quality, effective goods, so I’m looking for advice on an efficacious combination before I invest.

Also, I am a science student, so documenting parameters and results of experiments comes naturally to me – now, if only humans were that easy to correlate. :wink:

Thanks!

Welcome to Pherotalk ScienceStudent! ,

Wow that was a great intro!

“I am a science student, so documenting parameters and results of experiments comes naturally to me”

Then you will love this place! :slight_smile: I would suggest that you keep a journal- this helps you document your experiences and get the best results. Plus, from reading your intro I think that you journal would be really interesting. I’d read it.

From hearing,” I actually prefer to know someone before sleeping with them”

I would suggest:


Instant Honesty: This helps you to bond and connect with people. This bond can sometimes lead to a relationship and all the things that come with that. It also helps people to trust you more.


Instant Shine: from your intro (“I’m naturally happy and gregarious – I joke with strangers in line, on the train, etc”) I thought that you would like this one. Instant shine makes you and the people around you feel happy/good. I like this one because people like to be around happy people


Instant sexiness B: a woman’s product that has a flirty girl vibe to it and can attract guys. I actually have this product and have tried it (for the sake of experimentation) but I am sure that some of the ladies can tell you more about it.

(You can read about my experiences with the above pheromones in my journal titled “my notes”)

As far as combinations go I think you will like IS + IH even though I also feel like you will like the results you get when you use the products by themselves.

This is a great community-if you have any questions feel free to ask

Great intro!
Welcome :

That’s very gutsy of you with the dating site. Met any psychos?

Unfortunately men will be men, we think about sex a lot. Chances are I’m thinking about it by the time you read this. You sound like a very complicated person, very picky. Apologies if I come across as rude.

If you are attractive as you say, I find it hard to believe nobody would be giving you indicators of interest - your assumption about ADHD may be along the right lines there. Very strange about the lack of 2nd dates despite you saying it went well though. I’m no expert but it sounds like you lack the confidence in your own sexual attractiveness & ability to flirt.

ClintX2’s suggestions above are right on track.

I know very little about the female line, but one thing I might suggest is a to-go of TUTH. I know it’s marketed at men but hear me out. Let’s say you’re on a date with a guy you find attractive and the IH is forming a deep conversation. It could be your 2nd or 3rd date and you’re looking to take it a bit further, but you are too shy to hint at anything, you’re not picking up his IOIs, you’re too naive to slip a few dirty words into conversations… nip off to the bathroom and spritz yourself with TUTH. Don’t forget about the SELF effects of these products as well, for example TUTH which is good for attracting females to males also has been reported to give females a more pronounced sex drive and intent for the duration.

I’ll check back soon. You should also consider starting a journal, even without the pheromones for the time being. I bet you have plenty of stories to tell about your dates.

Hi and welcome to the forum ScienceStudent. :smiley: Looks like you not only know what your intentions and strategies are; you also got some great advice from Clint. Read around the forum at the journals; have a look at the science abstracts and have fun participating in your own experiment. :wink: We are all gonna look forward to your journals!

[quote=“ClintX2”]

Welcome to Pherotalk ScienceStudent! ,

Wow that was a great intro!

I would suggest: Instant Honesty, **Instant Shine, **Instant sexiness B, and combinations: IS + IH.

Clint,
Thank you!
I have done a little research (it’s my nature) :wink: – I figured IH and IO, but why IS/b and not IS/a?
Thanks!

Clint,
I have done a little research (it’s my nature) :wink: – I figured IH and IO, but why IS/b and not IS/a?
Thanks!

Clint,
Thank you!
I have done a little research (it’s my nature) :wink: – I figured IH and Shine, but why IS/b and not IS/a?
Thanks, Clint!

Fade,

Despite my oblivion, I’m not an idiot, :wink: and have figured out who the psychos were before meeting. (HINT for guys – It’s never funny to make “stalker jokes.”)

Funny thing is, I think about sex a lot (and I like it a lot) (; an ex complained, and a couple of the better guys I’ve met were worried about keeping up, and a couple wanted to keep sleeping with me after we broke up so they could pursue other girls. I have a hard time restraining that. I’ve a friend who swears that’s why I’m getting the wrong guys’ attentions, and it distracts me from being able to focus on my work. I’m not expecting to leap into an LTR, but I would like to know a guy will stick around for more than a few weeks.

I posted a profile pic, but I’m not sure why it doesn’t show. I do get indicators, now that friends have pointed out a guy hanging around and talking is an indicator, but I don’t know why it stops there, and I’m not willing to invite them back to my place on a first date that is also the first time I’ve actually met the person. (I’m bi, so there’s a lot of misnomer that means slut. :frowning:)

I’m learning the verbal flirtation and apparently have always been a master of the double entendre, appearing flirtatious when I think I’m just having witty conversation. My trouble, and I *know *it, is I can’t touch a guy first, or hold his hand first; I can’t elevate the play – I’m just too afraid for some dumb reason. I mean, chances are I’ll never see a guy again, so why am I worried? I do lack confidence. I know I’m attractive, but it’s hard to fight the social impression that the only attractive girls look like anorexic boys. And the fact that my breast drew far too much crass attention from grossly older men ever since I was 11.

From what I hear of your suggestions, I should use Shine/IH for the 1st or 2nd date, and add or only use TUTH on the third? And if this elevates my sex drive, I’m not sure I can handle that. :wink: Does TUTH have an effect on guys? My impression of the products from the website is that they work *on women for *men, and may occasionally work a little in reverse.

I’ve considered writing a book, actually, knowing it would be a best-seller! (I have learned to laugh at the ridiculous episodes I’ve been in, or I’d be insane, so I no longer let them affect me or take them as personally.) Sometimes, I can’t bring myself to do it – I don’t want to give “jerks” any help in how to hide their less-than-honorable intentions. I suppose I could add how to see through them, and level the playing field a bit. (I despise “games.”)

I ramble. :wink:
Thanks, Fade!

Hi Astrea, and thanks. I’ve been reading the Women’s Pheromone Guide, but the details seem incomplete, which is why I came here for advice.

Edit: Thanks to Tisha for pointing out that my references to IO should have been for Shine – ADD typo that would have caused me to order the wrong thing.

Hi ScienceStudent, welcome to the forum!

ClintX2 has made some great recommendations - Instant Honesty to add intimacy and comfort to conversations, Instant Shine to give you an uplifting mood-boosting glow and Instant Sexiness B, which will give you a soft, sexy kittenish vibe and cause men to want to take care of you and do things for you.

I totally understand about being attractive, yet only seeming to attract guys who only want sex. Been there myself, way too often, lol.

So, sillykitty, how did you fix / solve it?
Thanks. :slight_smile:

I’m guessing I don’t need IS/a then, from rereading the descriptions and a few other threads of similar ladies. It just seems there’s not the same complement for women as there is for men, in reference to the number of products in the arsenal. Those few multiple-date guys seemed quite interested in me for those dates, only to go off and get serious with another girl. I don’t get the disparity.

Lol, I’m still working on that one myself. But seriously, there are some nice trust/respect/confidence products, specifically MX300 for women (if they still even have it) and A314 for men. I’ve found that adding a touch of one of those to other products helps to steer things in a better direction.

But first, you will need to try each product on its own, so that you become familiar with the effects of each, and know how much of each will produce the best effects for you. Each product is different, and every person’s “sweet spot” is different. Once you have that down, then you can begin to play with combos.

Also, TUTH is designed for men to use on women. I have some, but it didn’t do anything for me. I think it needs to be worn by a man in order to be effective.

Really? What details are you talking about being incomplete? Read the womens JOURNALS; since everyone’s experiences with mones are as individual as they are; the ‘guide’ has to be just that - a guide. Giving too many details can affect how you experience the mones. But who am I talking to? You know that :smiley:
Besides, you will have to move this, because this is the introduction section. If you’re having difficulties with guys, try reading these threads first and then hitting up Tisha23. She’s a pheromone coach and an expert on social interaction. There is also something I’ve found, if you’re interested, PM me. Try reading the journals from the beginning of the threads - if you haven’t already. Try these:

LADIES: A mini compilation of your personal experiences!

picking sexy products -whats your intention?

*(i need some advice for my sister) (read this and then PM Tisha if you still have questions)

We are here to help and I think SillyKitty is right to add the IS/B to the list Clint gave you. It gives me a confidence boost and awareness (being the type who misses blatant hits A LOT!); the rest could be you reading them wrong or they are misrepresenting themselves and going on dates with you, while they are contemplating another. :open_mouth: Who knows? They do and they didn’t share.
On the guy thing, you might/may want to post to the mens section, throw out the questions/scenarios and wait for the body of data incoming. The guys will help, and with so many, you can sort through the analyses and see what makes sense. Useless talking to a fem about male thought processes. Unless the fem is an expert in such a discipline. Still, the guys are really helpful and I’d be very surprised if they didn’t shed light on the subject for you.

PS: IS/A is currently unavailable.*

Hello there Science Student.

Welcome to Pherotalk :slight_smile:

From what I can gather here you want to increase quality dates and decrease bullshit dates.

IS/A is no longer produced. They are short on certain molecules needed to make it we have no ETA on whether they will be able to get them anytime soon if at all.

That’s OK though because from your post I believe you may come across a little intimidating to men. IS/B will soften that up some and while creating a sexy attraction.

I also suggest IH since you indicated you would like that connection before moving into more intimate territory. Get 2X

With all the dates you have been on I dont think your shy or have trouble talking so skip the IO in favor of Ishine. The IH will cover helping you open up on a deeper level which is what your looking for. IO is just babble. Its fun and attractive small talk.

IShine is a mood enhancer but it also creates a warm magnetic charm. People want to be around you more, they feel good when your around.
It can help increase the desire for repeated dates.

I dont normally suggest putatives to new people but they dont have much else to offer and I think you will benefit from P74. So give that one a go as well. You layer that with the rest of the products.

I do not suggest TUTH just yet. Tuth makes men more aggressive and should be worn with other female mones like copulins. Its just gonna make you horny. Its good for after a sexual relationship has been established.

Its unfortunate that AD no longer has much to offer women. You can probably tell from the lack of female participation here. We have a few must haves we all buy but ultimately all the women’s products are being discontinued. This is probably why the women’s pheromone guide seems incomplete. They will try to tell you that we can use the men’s products but they really only have limited uses when we use them. They dont address women’s needs, Despite this they do sell the best quality mones around and what they do offer is highly effective. You have to be careful with where you buy products. There are some copy cat companies that are selling some dangerous stuff and trying to pass it off as AD dupes. I actually got ill from there a copycat of IO. Its best to check with the experienced ladies as we have pretty much tried them all. You can email me if you need help, addy in my profile.

If you have any questions of need help just ask.

Tisha

Welcome to pherotalk Sciencestudent!

You got so much great advice and even more great pheromone recommendation and persons trying to point you in the right direction.

June will give it three years that I am working here and from reading these intros and forums it’s safe to say am the princess or was the princess of low self esteem and allowing ppl to take advantage of me.

It seems to me that you are not yet aware of how amazing you are what you got. You are still unsure even as to what you want that is why you are willing to try so much or anything.

My advise is to first work on building confidence and figuring out what you want , until you do , you will be pulled every which way and end of nowhere.

Boundaries are important and remember you are not too old , or not getting old and need to get someone soon.

Take your time and let this forum be a guide to a better you.

Your gc was issued! :wink:

OK. I’m going for IS/b, IH, IShine, and P74. MX300 is out of stock. TUTH and A314 are men’s products, and from what I gather, they will either not help me much, or I already have too much power/sex-now vibe.

I’ve read: picking sexy products -whats your intention?, How To Find Your Sweet Spot (How to find your sweet spot...), Womens Pheromone Guide, and a few other women’s I’ve closed and thus lost the links to. I’ll post in the Men’s Journals for advice after finals are over in 9 days.

I’m going to read:
LADIES: A mini compilation of your personal experiences!, *(i need some advice for my sister), **Women’s Journals, **and a couple other stickies.

Fade, I meant to ask you about this. Can you please clarify. I’m happy to learn what impression I make on others. Thanks!

Astrea, mostly the incomplete things on the AD site are like what the difference between A314a and A314b, or whether “for men” means “to be worn by” or “to affect” men, and what MX300 is, other than “almost MX314” for which I can find no description.
Thanks!

Tisha, that’s perfect, thank you! Yes, I want to increase the quality dates. I have no interest in waiting for or trying to change a guy who’s not ready for more than just “playtime,” nor do I want to be misled by such. I have limited free time, so I’d prefer to spend it with someone who meets me on multiple levels as I find it much more relaxing; “casual” arrangements are just too much work IMO.

Mickaelia, Thanks for the GC. I’m not in a hurry, I’ve just decided leaving it to chance was getting me nowhere, and I want to be ready when the right one comes along. I am aware of how amazing I am. I am also inherently modest about it but I do not dissemble. I don’t have low self-esteem, but I definitely don’t have the sense of entitlement (read “bitchiness”) that guys seem to like to chase. I am recovering from growing up with the idea that guys don’t like tall, bright, funny, strong, hwp-curvy, BIG-busted, sporty women, but I think I’m close on that point. :wink: I do know what I want, I am just clueless how to recognize the inner truth in a guy versus his façade. I was trying to be open-minded, meeting a larger variety of people than I originally would have chosen as I was completely new to dating, and this internet method…well, you just can’t tell until you physically meet a person.
Thanks!**

Ok trust me sullen/loner.types dont want to be that way and are genrally nice people who are often in simaler situations like you.

Artic, I mean the sullen/loner-player types, the ones that pretend they don’t need/want women in their lives. Life is too short for games! I want someone who can happily admit they want me in their life and is equally vocal and glad that I state the same about them. :slight_smile:

I know it can be confusing. They reformulate products once in a while to improve them and this is when you will see the A and B after things like A314. Its basically the same just tweaked a little.

“For men” means worn by men to attract women. Ishine says for men but after much testing its been found to be unisex. I think they just leave “the men” part because guys tend to shy away from the mood products and go with the highly masculine ones and they thought the name would deter them. That’s what Jasmin told me at least.

MX300 is the revision of MX134 which is the female version of A314. Less male heavy mones more female and unisex mones.

Now one thing you need to know. You can use mixes intended for men. Both males and females make all the same pheromones (except copulins which are exclusive to females) We just make them in different ratios. Generally when women use male mixes they use a lot less then the men and buffer them with lots of socials and females mones. The mens use the women’s products the same way.

Then you have products that are unisex these are mostly personality type products like IO IH Ishine and various putatives.

So no product is off limits really you just need to learn to use them correctly.

I find the only time the male mixes are a problem is when its in men’s cologne which frankly I dont want to smell like.

I always find its best for new people to start with the unisex and the mixes for there own gender first. Then if they enjoy those results we can move onto learning to layer the other stuff.

Tisha

Tisha, you are truly wonderful. Thanks for confirming some of my suspicions. I realize A and B are variations of the same thing, but on the AD website it has the same description for IS/a as it does for IS/b – this is what I was confused about. It doesn’t explain the differences between the two. When I read some journals, I couldn’t tell if the differences were due to the compound variations or the variations in women.

So my dyslexic brain led me astray again (to MX 314 instead of MX 134), thanks for correcting that. The AD website has nothing on MX134 – it just links to an undescripted MX300. The Ladies’ Mini-Compilation of Experiences thread is helping immensely. I guess that’s what led to my confusion, is the lack of description on the AD site, and not knowing about the forums. (I have been reading some of the journals, but it is information overload. Is there a way to search by gender as well as keyword, or am I missing an obvious gender-tag on each journal when I get search results?)

I will try your advice; try the social/unisex and femme ones first, and hope the MX300 is stocked before I have to try the A314. :wink:

Thanks again!
Emm

Sorry for the delay in following up (:

As for impressions.. complicated! Meant in the nicest way. You seem very cautious but surprisingly willing to try things. Very shy and and closed off but also really open about yourself. Anyway - I don’t know you and I won’t pretend to, I could be well off the mark there. Do let us know if you start a journal!

Fade, no worries about the delay!
You are spot on. I’m hypersensitive, so I tend to be careful about letting someone touch me, or they get the wrong (sex, lots, and now) impression. Well, I suppose it’s the right impression, but I’m selective – too many guys are, shall we say “selfish,” and that does not build the intensity that (I think) I’m addicted to. :wink: I will talk about almost anything with almost anyone given that it’s within the natural flow of conversation, and in appropriate time and space. I’ve been told this leaves too little “mystery,” but I’ve also been called “coy” when I was just giving the silliest witty answer that popped into my head.

To all who asked, I will be starting a journal as soon as my order arrives. :smiley:

Emm