I believe no matter where you go, you will find problems with customer service and product lines.
Ever since February I have been reading about the Copulins problem. Which is why I was so happy that finally the ladies here are getting what they have been asking for.
IS/B gave me a cuddly sense, but no arousal like IJ does which would make me think it contained cops but could just be the extremely high -none signature with 2-3 sprays.
I believe this company seems to be the most reputable out there at the moment. I have seen three other companies, one with a fair about of products with horrible rollers, and another with so many products there is no way in hell they are properly testing. That quite frankly is so shitty.
It is not all about free Tobler’s and togo’s (free togo’s BTW ROCK) It’s about being able to get someone on the phone when needed. I personally want a company I can phone up and have a real person answer. Androtics has that.
Their products are potent, and their products work. I would like to see the new shop and forums as well, but I’d rather see quality products that work.
Just my opinion, Since I now use these products as apart of my day to day life.
OK, I’ve posted over in the Where’s Tisha thread, but avoided posting here, because it’s been such a heated thread and caused tempers to flare.
I understand both sides of the issue.
In the ladies defense, they were used to buying a product that contained copulins and knew what type of results to expect. Androtics altered the product and removed a component that to many of the ladies was the most important component.
In Androtics defense, they have tweaked and modified virtually every product many times. Even he retail consumer products like A314 are continually changing and evolving.
Nobody has ever screamed bloody murder because something was added or removed from A314, or that TAA was dropped from Ammo. And, I am positive that if Jasmin or MHarris didn’t believe that the Instant Sexiness series would be a viable product and generate anticipated results, they would not have continued selling it.
Should they have told us that cops had gone missing? Probably! They did know that the ladies love their cops, and that the experienced ladies would notice a difference.
But, by the same token, there are hundreds, if not thousands of reports in the forum about Instant Sexiness, and to properly inform everyone and insure that the ladies knew that they MIGHT experience different results would have been completely impossible.
Thats one of the downsides about having an open uncensored forum I guess.
With A314, there have been numerous complaints from batch to batch about some batches being better than others, some smelling weird, and other such things. There are more than a few adamant users that go to L-S to get their A314 simply for this reason.
My main problem is that Androtics harps on the fact that they are transparent and trustworthy. Yet things like changing the formulas from batch to batch without telling anyone is hardly transparent. There are version numbers on bottles for a reason, but have those even been changed in most cases?
I don’t necessarily feel that most changes warrant a notice telling us what exactly was changed, but we should still be told when there IS a change. This particular change was fairly crucial to the core nature of the product, so I feel they should have come out with it right away. I personally feel that for a company like this to remain transparent and accountable, they DO need to tell us when batches change.
They need to regain their trustworthiness in a big way. I’ve been noticing this growing dissent for a long time and even though the core issues don’t really affect my products, the potential that they could has really caused me to question my own products, and have definitely caused me to cut back on my purchases and testing. I mean, if this one batch of this one MX is great, but I can’t count on the next one to be, what’s the point? Since they expect FEEDBACK on these products, it’s crucial that they let us know when things have changed, othewise, how are we to inform them that we are using the changed version, or something we’ve been holding on to for some time?
Since most of the testers do use the forum, it’s a cake walk to inform people of changes. Their should be a changelog sticky in both the men’s and women’s forums. Version numbers need to be better kept track of and updated, and batch numbers shouldn’t be used to keep track of CHANGES, only as an indicator that maybe one batch has something strange going on that shouldn’t have happened. Version numbers are for changes. Dates should be better kept track of.
ie. Ammo 1.0 initial release batch 1-100
June 4th 200X, Ammo 1.01 minor adjustments batches 101-275
April 10th 200x, Ammo 1.1 Significant change, removed one ingredient added two more batches 276-
Instant A 1.0 initial release batch 1-123
Instant A 2.0 lacking cops, reformulated to account batch 124-
I also (very respectfully) disagree mark. I think you are coming at it from a good angle, and respect your thoughts behind it.
However, dropping TAA from Ammo doesn’t fundamentally change the nature of the product, as i understand it. There are inconsistencies with it that people have noticed - thank you Marty. Instant Sexiness is very dependent on cops, especially for older women. It is one of the real slam dunk home runs for that product.
It is indicative of the greater issue at play here - trustworthiness and consumer confidence.
Both have been shot full of holes.
@ Lor - I posted a reply in your journal to a very similar post. This is the perfect opportunity to vent and get these issues out in the open and addressed. This is the open forum to which it is supposed to occur on.
If anyone has the impression that I am tapping my foot, impatiently expecting results now now now, that is very incorrect. This is a medium for expressing frustrations and hopefully getting some feedback and answers - in due course.
Hurray Marty, once upon a time they used version numbers like software 1.1, 2.14 ect. They really don’t even have to tell us things changed if they will just give us some way of comparing products. I’ve been very grateful that A314 now comes with a version number.
Oh wow… I’m away on a few nightshifts and all this has been going on!
Well, after having read this thread more than once, and threads regarding Tisha stepping down as moderator I’m not quite sure what to say.
I was quite upset a few weeks back when Tisha posted the thread about the changes in some of the womens products and the lack of cops in them. I back her 100% and admire the way she voiced her concerns and stood up for herself and the rest of us ladies here. Now I’m ever more upset, because she’s had to “step down” and is no longer a moderator, because she had the balls to speak up! In my opinion it doesn’t matter if she was asked to step down or if it was her own choice, both reasons to me indicate that the forum is no longer the openminded and friendly place it once used to be and that really upsets me.
I was also very upset to read the posts in this thread confirming that there are NO cops in the newer IS/a and IS/b batches even though we haven’t been told about any changes to the formula. Not only were we not told, questions and concerns were either ignored or dealt with by giving us excuses and lies! I wholeheartedly agree with Tigerlilly’s posts in this thread and it upsets me to read some of the rude replies she recieved for speaking her mind.
To be honest I don’t know how I feel about Androtics anymore. Whilst I do like my old batch products, I don’t like being the atmosphere on the forum. And I definitively don’t like being lied to! I often feel like I have to sensor my reports and really think about what I post…and a number of my posts have “magically disappeared” without having been given a reason. That’s NOT an openminded forum where you are free to give feedback on ANY phero’s, from ANY company, be that positive or negative feedback.
I don’t feel comfortable welcoming newbies any more. I feel like I’m being dishonest if I recommend products to newbies when they aren’t the same and/or are less effective than they were when I joined the forum and fell in love with the products.
I think I will take Lor’s advice and take a time out to vent and decide where to go from here after we get more of an explaination. At the moment though I’m not even sure I want to spend any more money on Androtics products.
??? How are we getting what we have been asking for (for A LOT longer than since Feb btw)? There are still no cops and the other sexy womens products are no without cops!
Androtics need to make womens products more of a priority and realise that we are also important customers! They need to cater for our needs too.
I totally agree with you, Xiphoid. I have been welcoming new members, and have been frankly relieved that they are mostly male. Instant Shine, Instant Openness, Instant Honest, Ammo and A314 I can honestly and happily recommend to people.
I have found myself kind of avoiding the female new members, only because the last time I did, and I recommended Instant Sexiness A and B, I felt like a charlatan
Yes, there are more and more women discovering pheromones, and not all of them are in their early 20’s exuding copulins of their own.
In fact, I’m noticing that the new females’ average ages are quite a bit older than the new males’ average ages. The new males are largely late teens/early 20’s, and the females are largely 30’s/40’s (please correct me if I’m wrong)
One of the main reasons these females in these age ranges are deciding that they need a little extra “help” is due to their decreased copulin output. This is why this aspect of the women’s products is so important.
I personally think that Steve and Tisha should have a chit-chat - talk about the problems and resolve this awkwardness (it would be nice to see that things are good again) cause right now things are starting to fall apart already. I don’t want Tisha gone for good and I don’t want steve to stop posting…that is just so weird.
I’m in no position to demand and I am no chemist, don’t get me wrong androtics. But if the copulins are going to come so soon, why not take away the products such as mx300, mx235/135, is/a, is/b and mx274 if they don’t contain copulins in them. And when you finally have the copulins resell them again with the copulins added. That way there is less complaints from customers and more satisfaction with the company. Cause right now, things are kind of out of control since cops is one of the most important ingredients in a women’s pheromone product.
I really hate adding eow to my is/a product for example, it does not feel the same as using androtics’ cops in is/a…the ladies have been waiting for more than 1/2 a year…
I agree, I think Tisha’s made up her mind and is firmly, happily, set in her course. (check out the lounge thread New Beginnings) She seems happy. I wish her well. And, more importantly, I understand.
Hi, Just got off the phone with SteveO and I was confused. What he was talking about was the tech sheet and I was speaking of the forum. So as I am new I was confused. I am grateful that the company has taken the time to both email and call me to help with this issue. It has been resolved to my satisfaction.
Hello, I’m a very new member here… Frankly, I wish had read this thread BEFORE I joined and purchased from this website. I probably still would have ordered the Instant Openness, but definitely not the MX135 that was recommended by an employee of this company. I’m disappointed and surprised, to say the least. I haven’t received my products yet, but as of right now I’m not 100% sure that I’d willing to keep my business on this website, regardless of how well they work. I understand that this a huge grey zone for the loyalists and long time users, but for someone who is new and already hesitant, this is a MAJOR red flag.
And then there is the long standing question of censorship.
Marty has realized a third very valid point that the rest of us seem to have missed.
Without transparent batch number tracking, (which goes on in-house) is this real testing that goes on here? Or are we just window dressing meant to hype the consumers?
None of these problems are insurmountable. None of them are even difficult to resolve. It is a matter of policy. With a clear executive decision, any of these policies could have been implemented in a matter of weeks, if not days. And could have been implemented by principled leadership months and years ago.
Ladies, I understand your need to vent. The need to work through all the branches and brambles of these issues of trust and honesty and openess. I know it is essential to our women that this process of venting be allowed to run it’s course.
But the window of time for effective action has past, long past, when our most upstanding citizens and loyal consumers say things like this;
[quote=“Xiphoid, post:47, topic:29512”]
I don’t feel comfortable welcoming newbies any more. I feel like I’m being dishonest if I recommend products to newbies when they aren’t the same and/or are less effective than they were when I joined the forum and fell in love with the products.
I think I will take Lor’s advice and take a time out to vent and decide where to go from here after we get more of an explaination. At the moment though I’m not even sure I want to spend any more money on Androtics products.
[quote]
And you can be certain that this is only the tip of the iceberg.
The copulin situation is ridiculous in the extreme. Honesty when the cops ran out in consumer products could kept these questions of credibility from becoming so critical. But even that would have only been damage control.
Tigerlilly is completely correct that Androtics had the opportunity for world domination in this industry. And have now let it slip from their grasp. They have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I can understand the desire for a high quality product, but when the only other alternative to stop production of a critical product, why not continue the production of a mediocere but still effective product?
There are several suppliers for raw materials, the processing technology is realativly straightforward, and Androtics has succesfully done all of this before. The excuses have long ago run out. Especially when this is the essential core product for our female consumers.
This is more, much more than a failure of confidence. While I am sure it is a beehive of activity behind the scenes, there is no sign that Androtics has even begun to implement any of it’s strategically critical goals.
You shouldn’t let a little forum drama dissuade you from testing Pheromones. Androtics is an awesome company and they have the absolute best customer support anywere.
We are all about the testing of experimental mixes and pheromones here, and reporting our results so that they can tweak their formulas. Sometimes a tweak goes wrong and they rely upon us to help them get back on track with our testing results. How we lost sight of that in all this drama is beyond me, since this is why we are here.
The consumer lines are all backed by a 100% money back guarantee. If you don’t like a consumer product just contact the company and they will refund your money.
All this is just hot air, and I’m sure you’ll get as addicted to this wonderful new hobby as the rest of us, because you will see results.
But I should let you know that the MX’s are all experimental mixes. These are for testers to test and give feedback on. They aren’t designed for new pheromone users. And whoever recommended an MX to you should have steered you towards the consumer line.
I think if you decide not to test the MX you ordered for whatever reason, you can probably exchange it unopened for something else. Just call Steve and see what he can arrange for you.
