Well that clears some things up. I do agree with the others when I say we need cops. I don’t think steve-o was trying to make anyone feel bad with his post I think he just didn’t expect things to be taken out of context.
This reminds me of a post awhile ago where someone was complaining about their results with a product and eventually decided to change the title.
Communication fubars happen a lot online we miss so many non-verbal cues here its easy to take something wrong.
However, may I suggest re-releasing the is/a and is/b on a trial w some cops? Label it is/a+ and is/b+ so gals know which one has the cops and which one doesn’t.
Most of the ladies I’ve seen interested in cops are familiar with EOW which reeks fairly heavily so I think they’d be likely to know how to cover the smell themselves if that’s the issue.
So maybe letting the veteran phero testing women familiar with cops take a swing at whatevers brewing would ease some tension?
How do I know if my product I ordered 2 days ago contains this much lusted after magic stuff?VBG, I am now starting to wonder if I am missing something. I want the types of results that the women on the forum hae written about. If it’s missing this does it mean my results won’t be as great as the other womens? I really want this to work like it has for all the other ladies.
I’ll have Amy look up the batch logs from the last ISexi batches tomorrow, and we’ll post up the batch numbers of bottles that contained copulins, and which ones didn’t.
If my memory serves me right, it’s been a really long time since we’ve had any cop-juice that meets our QC standards.
We’re experts at the pheromone part. The copulin part we’re still working on.
On that note!
There are some cool things in the pipeline! I’m really really really, hair-of-the-rabbit close to bringing you guys some perfumer-made copulin ideas to experiment with. It took a few months of research, and then a few months of waiting for our perfumer to recover from a daft hospital stay, but the release date is encroaching ever sooo muchh closerrrr. I hope you guys will like them when they’re ready. Make sure, when they’re out, to report relentlessly so we know what direction to follow next.
You can read a little bit more about our copulin-quest at these posts:
I’m sorry I had to “cop-out”* and not give a firm date.
And I’m totally sorry I was looking for an opportunity to use really tacky puns. :o
I can almost assure you, if you ordered 2 days ago, it might not contain copulins at all.
That’s not to say, the pheromone blend isn’t totally killer.
Synthetic copulins, in my experience, haven’t always been as amazing (for me) as a killer phero combo + light dusting of some sexy perfume (my fv is Maurice Roucel’s Musc Ravageur) + a tiny dabbing of YOUR OWN juices behind your ears and on your wrists, to mingle, mix and culture with the other sweet juices you got going on.
Dipping into your own natural copulin reserve is no new news, it’s a tradition brought down from Victorian brothel women. Oldie & goodie!
Sometimes, when I wore things like EOW, I felt like a skanky whore! (Granted, some people can TOTALLY work with that element, and bring something FABULOUS to the table. Hell yes to those women. When I think I smell slutty, I just want to slink away into the darkness and find the nearest shower to avoid embarassment.:o)
No, no I can see the reasoning behind that. The smell drives me crazy, in all seriousness not being weird either. Just wonder how you girls get that er, “juice” in that “liquid” state without help.
Yes, this IS a free forum, and we can all post whatever we damn well
please. However, we all must 1) recognize what we are posting, and how
it will come across, and 2) be ready to accept the consequences of our
post.
For the first - you are a compensated employee of Androtics. What you
say carries weight and meaning for the company. You are an official
spokesperson on this forum. With a hot-button issue, such as the LACK
of COPULINS in a stated copulin product
, that was previously not addressed by the company, your post
was easily, easily, and quite readily interpreted as “Cops are back.”
You are a slick and suave interpersonal communicator. It may be
possible that you did not realize the effect your post would have on
the women. However, you, at the very least, as a representative of the
company, owe a bit more explanation in your posts. You speak with
weight and authority here - your words can inspire rumors, gossip and
innuendo - or excitement and cheers. Something
about your girlfriend trying IS/b might have belonged in the lounge,
maybe? It’s not your report, and there was nothing of substance in your
initial post. I and everyone welcome a full report, or a detailed post, or something more from you than what we got. I am not attempting to be “mean,” but merely attempting to continue to explain how your actions caused much of this fervor.
The announcement of Androtics Copulins will effectively equal world
domination for Androtics. Your products are that good. We have been
waiting… and waiting… and waiting… for quite a while. Bella has a
special prayer for them. Historically, you post in an interesting and
intriguing way, and have dropped “subtle” hints before about copulins.
Whether they are jedi mind tricks or legitimate attempts to feed us
information is known only to you - but an announcement that Androtics
has Cops could very well have come from you in that format. Clearly, we
ALL thought so.
Frankly, I think you did an excellent job of making a whole hell of a lot of people “uncomfortable.” (and, while we’re at it, I don’t appreciate the name-calling/implication that I am mean spirited. I believe that violates a forum rule. I greatly object to your behavior here – There’s only one person who should feel ashamed - liars.)
Lets start with your admission that IS/a HAS NO COPS - Once again, you are an employee and representative of the company. Whether this was an intentional manipulation of facts or an error of knowledge on your part, the fact remains that you are wrong.
MHarris IS the company. His words do state that there is that
ingredient in the product, and a good, honest company does not change the product without telling people. We already ran into that land mine last month.
If we’ve ALWAYS had to add to it, then why did you sell IS/a and b w5x-20x the cops content? If I remember correctly from school, 5 x 0 (according to you) equals … 0.
So are you trying to tell me then that Androtics has been ripping us off for a long time, selling falsely spiked cops products and charging an exorbitant amount for it?
No, of course not. The cops were in there, and were in the original product.
Once again, as a representative of the company, your words and your actions carry weight and meaning.
In choosing to NOT address the lack of cops issue last month,
and in choosing to post your cavalier post regarding your girlfriend in the manner that you did,
whereby you didn’t think through/misunderstood the implications of rumor and innuendo that your post could cause - at best -
or, maliciously attempted to start rumors and innuendo - at worst –
you have seriously damaged the company, in my eyes.
You are the main, visual, interactive representative of this company. Your actions and words represent the actions and words of them.
You very quickly had two, very, very experienced users chime in right away and try to “correct the misunderstanding.”
I value Tisha a great deal. She was an integral part of the Androtics experience for me, and a great advocate for Women’s pheros. Very often, women’s pheros are ignored or not pursued - she made sure that they were front and center, and best as she could. Some men might wonder why we are all up in arms over the lack of cops, but if Androtics stopped making Androstenone and didn’t say a word, I guarantee the men’s forum would be up in arms, with a quickness.
Tisha held the line for us women.
She also held Androtics accountable, first for the post censoring, then for the copulins lacking in the commercial line, and now here, when an Androtics employee is acting in the wrong.
She held the line for accountability, responsibility, and right action. I do not always agree with everything she said, at all times, and we had our disagreements - all adults do. But she stood up for what was RIGHT.
Lying, manipulations, obfuscation of facts regarding products is wrong.
Lets follow her lead, Ladies.
I respect you Jasmine. You’ve built a great company founded on research and development, something that is rare in this field. You are engaged in groundbreaking work, and it is exciting to be a part of it.
However, there are problems. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
The announcement that Cops are Lacking, from an official, Androtics employee/source, is overdue. Sounds like a few batches overdue.
Many people on here value intention. For the life of me, I cannot understand the intention behind purposely withholding information on a product. As I understand QC, the product is supposed to be delivered, as advertised, as promised, each batch, every time.
You often mention that you do not want to work with cheap Chinese chemicals. Well, my coworkers dont use Chinese manufacturers either - because the product consistency is not there. They do not deliver the same product, time after time. Their QC drops off - and no one is told. It is “discovered” by the customer - generally when it breaks. Sound familiar?
IS/a and b, MX135, MX300, and the other cops-contained formulas for sale and currently not, in your company, are broken.
This could have been solved, and probably would have won you a great deal of regard from your customers, if the company had been upfront about it.
Now, however - it looks like a shoddy cover job after a good woman walked away from a rotten, stinky mess that she didn’t want to associate with anymore. Can’t say I blame her. Even though she wasn’t compensated, she was affiliated with your company. If she chooses to not have her name be affiliated with these actions, that is a choice I can understand.
You have a consistent, reliable product, and I heartily support your research and development. However, I am concerned about the rest.
Sorry, that doesn’t change the fact that manipulations of facts and truth, obfuscation, slurs, and misuse of company influence and name have occurred.
C’mon ladies - be like Tisha. Stand UP.
Actually, its not. I understand you are attempting to put the issue to bed, but I dont think it should go quietly into the night just yet. Serious issues have occurred. You’re reframing, not addressing the issue.
At the end of the day, it is your company, and you choose how you wish to act - we as consumers choose how to respond to that by staying or going.
No, I do not support inappropriate action, lies and manipulations. Tisha does not either. That’s why she is gone.
I am “harping” on this because it is important. I care about this place, a business I have become a proud supporter of. I want to continue in that vein. This is not motivated by mean spirited pettiness or spite. It is an honest attempt to get issues out in the open, as seen by many others than myself.
You brought up a plethora of good points in your post, a lot more than I have the ability to address right now in the middle of the night. I do want to thank you for bringing all this up, though, because it represents a lot of stuff that we can use to improve ourselves with. So.. Thank you!
I’ll spend a good time tomorrow reviewing correspondence, batch logs, and timelines, and find out exactly where communication started to break down.
I checked the batch logs remotely available to me (ISA/B up to Batch 302), and those contain copulins. Amy and I will review the hard copies of batch logs tomorrow, the ones that aren’t scanned into iDisk quite yet, and reside in a physical folder at the lab. I’ll figure out what happened here, and I’ll let you know, so we’re all on the same page.
It’s really really late where I am, so I’m going to bounce off to bed. Thanks again for putting so much thought and effort into your response. I’m going to use it as rocket fuel to discover some weaknesses and start working them out. Let me know if there’s anything else I should be looking for.
OK, I read through all this with as much objectivity as I could muster.
The short version version is that what is now long term, chronically unsatisfied consumer demand has been allowed to build up over a surprisingly long period of time. Then when it became clear that even the basic consumer products were without copulins, everything around the subject of cops became pressureized. This is perhaps the downside of customer loyalty. If these women were not so doggedly loyal to Androtics, they would have left a long time ago and pressure/demand would have been relieved.
All along there have been veiled implications and hints and allegations and cryptic promises that cops were on the way. ‘Soon, soon, any day now’ There was a very heightened sense of anticipation. When one of the people making those promises made a vauge reference to the product that the women are most hungry to have cops in, one of the women misinterpreted it to mean that cops are back, and then another, and another, and … It spread quickly like a growing crack up the face of dam filled to the spillway with the spring rains. That was how the Johnstown Flood happened. In this case it would be what? The Portland Flood?
We seem to have sustained some casualties in the course of this inevitable mess. And probably a few more yet to come. And our surviving community will very likely lack some of our recent vitality.
Androtics has not delivered on any of the strategic promises made to us. Any number of us would have been willing to help. All of us have waited patiently. For any one of the three essential projects.
Regardless of the reasons/rationalizations, the fact is that after a more than reasonable length of time Androtics has not been able to manage any of these projects to even initial implementation in a time frame that should have brought them to completion.
All of us can be taken in by words. Even actions can be a subterfuge. The truest judgement is in results.
Tigerlilly, I think that you have said what a lot of the long-time users have wanted to say for a long time. But, every time we said it, we got CENSORED. Or outright BANNED from the forum. I applaud you and Tisha both for standing up and stating the truth. Things have been brushed under the rug for far too long. That is why I am no longer as active here as I used to be.
Some of you recognize me or some of my past posts…I was one of the first really active women on the forum here. Those of us who came first had to do a LOT of trial and error, told the company what we needed, and a lot of times we got it. This USED to be a truly open forum, which allowed various discussions about pheromones, regardless of the source. It was a place where pheromone enthusiasts could congregate and talk about any and all products they were using. It isn’t like that anymore. Loyal members were banned for speaking their minds, and a lot of us started buying pheros elsewhere, because good products or not, we didn’t want to support a company that lies and covers things up. PERIOD. People think that I left because I was told not to mention a different retailer. That is not it.
I left because of a combination of things, which began way back when one of the most loved forum members, and a very good friend of mine, AIL, was banned for speaking the truth and getting in a discussion with some of the gentlemen here. Her banning showed us all that the men here “rule the show”, and that the women are to be swept under the rug. The men in that discussion said some really UGLY, VILE things, and they were not banned…instead, they were applauded.
We both started buying from a company that LISTENS to what the women want and need, and do their best to provide it. Mud has been flung about their phero sources, but anyone who has been buying and using pheros for as long as I have knows the truth. In addition to actually USING said products, I also did some digging and investiagting. I was a trained investigator for the government for 15 yrs, and I pride myself on finding out the whole truth. I didn’t have to look far before I found it.
Cops may not be important to some of the younger ladies, like you Jasmin, but for some of us approaching mid-life, they are not only helpful in a product, they are REQUIRED. Tisha posted regarding a road-test and comparison between the old I/Sexi and the new. I think that says it all. The truth about the change in formulas should have been released WHEN IT HAPPENED. Not when it is discovered by a seasoned phero user and brought to light.
As far as the release of your copulin formula, that “impending release” has been coming for a LONG time…you (Jasmin) and I discussed it on the phone way back in 2006, when you told me that the “arteests” were working on it.
Now that I have stated my opinion, I will be silent…I still read some journals from time to time, but you probably won’t see me again…
I guess I really don’t expect the powers that be to allow the post to be shown…it will probably be deleted or edited before it hits the boards. If they leave it as it is, they will show themselves to be better and more honest than I thought.
Hi Jasmin,
I am confused as I placed my order a few days ago. A very nice lady at the toll free number explained to me there were no cops in the product. The next day I called again and talked to a nice man named Steve he was helpful and he stated that cops ARE in this product. The thing is when I talked to the lady I thought at the time maybe she was mistaken as the company website forum clearly states there ARE cops in the product.
I have been looking at other products from other manufactures. I picked you company because of all the great reviews. Your company combined the best of both worlds into one product.There was no need to go out and buy a second product. I have been telling my friends about your company. I was very excited to be getting the latest and greatest thing since sliced bread. How can my friend and I test a cops product with no cops? I am asking that this be corrected. I don’t know how the system works but I did PM you. Can your company correct this and perhaps send me a bottle of cops to add to this product? I am a new customer this is my FIRST order. I feel kinda stupid at this point as I was gushing to my friends about this great stuff and I would let them try it and how great it will work as per your forum ladies. I really hope they have not ordered yet at least till this is corrected. BTW,I order the org Instant Sexiness. If you all correct this issue I will remain a loyal customer.
Jlynn, I’m sure the best way to contact customer support is still here:
Despite the fact that Androtics appears to be having a bump in the road here with the copulins issue, they do have a fantastic record for customer support. Contact them thru the support ticket and I’m sure they’ll be in touch with you soon. It’s a much more efficient system than e-mail or PM.
The forum members tend to hold Androtics to a higher standard of excellence because deep down we know they they are capable of standing up to it!
How can I trust anything androtics states when a product was being sold under false representation? Telling us that Instant Sexiness has cops, and then selling it to us with NO cops is very bad business.
It IS being ignored, and no amount of sweet talking or reframing will change it, until it is addressed HEAD ON.
Ooohh Yaahhhh’s post was brilliant - it clearly laid out the issue in a succinct, detailed format and went straight to the heart of the matter.
Renny - I am actually NOT convinced that Androtics customer service is all that great. Are we blinded by free chocolates and togos that we dont hold them accountable for REAL issues? Lying, manipulations, censorship and and ignoring customer complaints are very serious issues. Not being forthright and honest, when a company is BUILT upon honesty, is a very serious issues.
When there is very, very public slamming here of other companies in this industry for scandalous, dishonest actions, and then Androtics engages in similiar underhanded, devious, dishonest manipulations of facts, coverups and lack of forthright information, I LOSE trust and confidence in the company.
The company acts like they DONT WANT us as consumers.
They are getting their wish. How many have left in droves? How many more may still, unless this is addressed??
I really, really feel for Jlynn at the moment - here is a newbie who is smack dab in the middle of this, who exemplifies the very thing that Tisha was fighting for. An honest company WOULD rectify this for her, and everyone effected by falsely advertised cops.
They would begin a true policy of openness.
They would correct past mistakes.
They would serve their consumers again.
They would correct their employees incorrect actions.
They would make strives to solve these problems - WITH MORE THAN JUST WORDS.
you are all absolutely justified in feeling the way you do.
110%
but for me,
i cannot wipe out years of good service and wonderful experiences because of a copulin issue that we do not have all the details on.
as a matter of fact,
if anyone should be irrate, it should be ME,lol, because i have been waiting just as long as Dolly.
i havent been here the longest, but i have been here longer than most.
outside of this forum, Androtics personel has personal lives.
imagine you living what your living AND handling the problems that are created by more than one person?
its kind of like being a principal and not all the teachers are on the same page with the same schedule-
they are NOT bad teachers,
they just require a meeting of the minds.
The copulin part we’re still working on.
