“smelly kid” . Using low grade copulins I suspect.
lol
everyone stood in line for the microphone
but
no one is here for the peace-pipe.
obviously presence plays a large part in this.
knowing you are there
may be comfort enough 
Aww Jazzy you are such a cutiepie!!! That’s very nice of you to do that.
Nah, I wouldn’t say everyone
I’m still thinking.
Abandoning the women’s needs for the strategic good of the company is beginning to make more and more sense.
From that perspective, it was probably a struggle to get the OK to develop perfume analog copulins instead of the real fatty acid cops. Even that was likely a consession to emotionally overwrought loyalties for the women of our community, not sound business practice.
I’m still thinking. I don’t need anybody blowin’ smoke at me just yet.
LMAO!
Just tell em there’s something to smoke in it and a number of them will com running!
I have had my turn at the microphone and I have taken my puff from the peace pipe.
I’m prioritizing keywords.
LOL. No way …
while i am in total agreement with the copulin issue
(we were told it would be soon, but who knew soon meant years…)
the one thing i keep comming back to
everytime i want to fuss about it
is that the idea (of having cops made when androtics wasnt happy with their own cop formula)
is still a result of our asking,
but who tells any company what product they SHOULD be making?
i mean,
i would really like to see androtics have a woman’s line that
totally kicks ass
but at the same time if they cant provide copulins,
where is the harm in getting them elsewhere until they are satisfied with whatever is developed?
this isnt directed at you at all, OoohYahhh,
but your post reminds me
that waiting indefinately for something that still has to be up to their standard
IS good business practice.
right?
I am totally here for the peace pipe, thats what its (and I’m) all about!
(and to set the record straight, I’m not talking about drugs)
Its not so much about the copulin issue, its about communication. This all began (as far as I understand), because:
-
A couple months ago, it was discovered that the Instant Sexiness formulas changed to no cops without informing us. It was not the fact that it had no cops, we are quite capable and resourceful at dealing with that. It was the fact that we were not informed of the change in formula. And were continuing to purchase and recommend something that was not what we thought it was.
-
At the same time that the women were waiting with baited breath for both cops back in the things that had them before, as well as new products hopefully, Steve made an unfortunate blunder that was misunderstood as “the women finally getting their needs met”. It was misconstrued as a cruel tease, unfortunately.
The results: Tisha became disgusted with what she perceived as the management bs-ing the people, and did not feel that she could honorably represent a company that “talked the talk” of straightforwardness, but didn’t “walk the walk”.
If all of this is just misunderstanding, and human error in not communicating the sudden absence of cops in the women’s products due to too little staff with too many responsibilities, then what’s the problem?
And why isn’t anything being done to try to get Tisha to return? She loves this company and this forum, with her heart and soul. Its not just about free pheros for her, I know this and so do you. You had a professional forum moderator who just happened to have nine years of phero experience who gave her time and her love for practically nothing. How awesome is that? How lucky we were!
She was an integral and invaluable part of this company and this community, and I truly believe that she would seriously consider coming back if anybody bothered to give her a simple explanation and a simple apology.
How hard is that?
I haven’t been active on the forum much in the past 2 weeks, and when I stopped by today, and read this thread, which is now the huge btw, I was hit with some pretty big info. I had read Tisha’s thread on the cops issue, when it was first brought up, so I was up to date with some tension being previously present. But I was absolutely shocked to hear that she is no longer a moderator 
I’m really surprised to ever hear of ‘trust and respect’ issues involving Tisha and other members on the forum, I’ve only been here a little over 4 months now, but I have utmost respect for her and what she did on the forum. Now, I’m not briefed on the whole situation, and don’t ever expect to be, but it sounds like Tisha does deserve an apology and, this goes without saying, the respect and trust of the forum members.
I also read this thread when it had only the first 3-4 posts and thought to myself, ‘That’s great! The women of the forum must be ecstatic, especially Tisha.’ And I myself like female products, not to mention some of my female family members have been meaning to try them. So, naturally when I came back today and saw 130 posts I didn’t expect such, what sounds like to me, communicative and managerial reform, not to mention some startling accusations (which really confused me).
In the time I’ve been here I’ve never seen a recently active thread where those at Androtics have posted so much. I see that as very good thing, involvement of the officials shows interest and, therefore, progress. Glad to see that, but I would like to see resolve with Tisha as well.
Dominick
I’m sorry, I thought I was very clear about this in my previous posts. Let me re-iterate to make to make sure everyone understands fully.
It was a couple years ago it lost it’s cops, not a couple months ago. You guys might be thinking one of the MXs which had to receive a new #.
Instant Sexiness had cops added and then lost them again back when we were more phone oriented w/Jasmin on the lines. The forum was active, not as active as it is today, and we always encouraged people to call for the final word about anything since we tended create much better relationships and get much more relevent feedback when heavy phone contact was involved. (same reason we invited people to come out and test in LA) This was a great arrangement since Jasmin was both highly social, and scientific minded enough to pinpoint what was necessary for our next experiments. Sure, she’s not quite Richard Feynman, but everyone had a nice time, and I got we got great feedback, too.
Anyway, hundreds of people were told on the phone over months that we were running too low on copulins. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, so many people were told, I wondered why we just didn’t run a superbowl ad. (of course, this is just a cute thinto to say – in reality, a superbowl ad has far too much reach, would reach the wrong people and is prohibitively expensive) That’s why some people clearly remember being told. They’ve been around awhile.
And again, Instant Sexiness was never a copulin product and should not be considered by anyone as a copulin product. It is primarily a pheromone product, specifically a TAH and TAL based product first and foremost, along with accessory pheromones.
Copulins were simply a bonus for a limited amount of time somewhere in 2006, when when had enough to add them. Copulins were a huge trend then, and we got so many custom ($$) requests to add them, that we just made it a standard freebie for awhile while we had supplies. It was nice thing for both parties involved. It was one less custom for us to batch, and the people who received it saved some money.
v1.0 contained no copulins, v1.1 did in '06 and maybe part of '07, and 1.2, which has been around for the last several years, returned the formula to what it was basically was with 1.0 again.
The nature of the product didn’t change, the core formula never changed, but rather, the bonus was simply removed when we were no longer able to provide it.
If you check smartmones.com and even run archive.org on it (which lets you see into the past), you’ll see that Instant Sexiness was never advertised, even once, as having copulins. Again, it was never advertised as containing copulins. It is not a copulin product, was not a copulin product, and should not be considered as such. The power of mix A relies mostly on TAL, the power of mix B mostly on TAH.
The true copulin dependent products, Lust After Me v1.0 and Dirty were removed from the market when we no made when longer had enough copulins to make them. If we had considered Instant Sexiness a copulin catogory product, we would’ve disconnected it when our stock ran out, as well.
To recap the history, Lust After Me v1.0 was simply our own inhouse replacement for Primal Instinct, so it was just a higher grade androstenol along with copulins, a different diffusion system, and dosing. Like Primal Instinct with better ingredients and other little upgrades.
Lust After Me v1.1 or v2.0 may not have them again, since we’ll likely use a much more complex formulation instead of merely acting as a Primal Instinct alternative. However, it would make no sense if future versions of Dirty didn’t have them. The whole premise of Dirty is it’s pheromones “dirtied” with the scent of sex.
Ultimately, I would summarize the glitch (minus any accidental teasing or inappropriate comments by Steve) as being a time glitch. Steve came in at a time when Instant Sexiness no longer had copulins. The fully qualified statement would’ve been something like “Instant Sexiness has never had copulins while I’ve been here.”
This incompleteness in the “changing of guard”, you could say, could’ve been handled by an online “changelog” similar to the ones programmers use at sites like Sourceforge.com. At the time, I would’ve had no way to set one of these up in a time efficient manner or even know where to start, since that’s not really my expertise.
Luckily, in the past year or so the creators of this forum have released a commercial add on that adds something like that capability to the forum itself. Bad timing for 06/07, good timing in 09 for this type of thing.
She’s a lovely lady, you’re right. She was one of the few women participants we’ve ever had that was willing to try new molecules and off the wall mixes (not the only one, I’m just saying one of the few).
We did give her a call (or Jasmin did rather), and will stay in contact with her. Everyone needs a break every now and then. We’ll certaintly be here for her in the meantime if she needs anything.
Please keep in mind that she was a stipened (stipened in kind; i.e., product) forum volunteer. Most of the helpers you see on most forums receive absolutely nothing.
The difference between Tisha and most volunteers at many forums is that she was far above and beyond what we would ever ask of anyone as a forum volunteer in terms of time, commitment and quantity of people assisted, all really without being asked. She is truly an amazing self-managing overproducer.
I’ve been trying to figure out some way to extend some further thanks to her for her effort here. Something she’d really like and not expect. hint, hint (ideas appreciated!)
Thank you, Michael, for the enlightening information on the history of copulins in the Instant sexiness products. This is why I said “as far as I understand”, as I am still at this point a fairly new member of this community.
The best thing you can do to extend further thanks is what I suggested previously, ask Tisha to come back. That is the greatest compliment and the greatest thanks you can give her, at this point in everything. Even if she says no, at least she will leave feeling wanted.
In private communications, Tisha has indicated that she has not heard one word from anyone. Though this could have changed since I last heard from her yesterday. In fact, she has not even received a single PM, which seems surprising. Has anyone sent her any PM’s? Because if so, she is for some reason unable to receive them.
I don’t really understand this.
Has Richard Branson abandoned space travel in the form of Virgin Galactic, or does it just take awhile to build a durable reality (especially up to Branson’s higher than usual standards) out of nothing more than an idea?
Has Apple abandoned sighted people by introducing no new 20" or 30" monitors in years (and NEVER introducing the 42" monitor so many people wanted and still want), or is it inevtable that they will be updated?
Has the Lithium Ion based Prius with an updated body style been abanadoned? Perhaps because women drive them? (smile)
Every year it’s been expected since 07 I think it was, it’s somehow replaced by a slightly updated older model. Toyota now says the release date is 2010. This is one of the best funded and best supported car companies in the world, from the same country that produced one of the most significant manufacturing geniuses of all time, Dr. Genichi Taguchi, a national hero in Japan. In fact, Toyoda (what you now know as Toyota) knew him well – they would not have grown to nearly overtake the car market “seemingly out of nowhere” worldwide without his work.
Will the next night that happens last forever? Has the earth abandoned light, or will the sun rise eventually rise?
Please keep in mind that nobody sells or makes (commercially, and as far as I know, even “in the lab”) fatty acid based copulins that are based on human copulins. A few years back also I also showed no academic research efforts into actual human copulins, either.
Astrid Jutte did a fantastic study where humans were involved, sure, but she used a colleagues rhesus monkey formula. That may have been close enough to work just fine and dandy, but a rhesus monkey vagina is still not a human vagina. (then again, who’s tried both?) There still can be things some components, some out of proportion, and others that shouldn’t be there at all.
Good start, mind you, but it’s got to evolve out of that eventually.
That’s why we have 3 people working on human variation copulins, all with different approaches. All involve fatty acids to some degree.
I have no idea who else is doing anything remotely like we are, so who’s done the abandoning, really?
Storer was told of both old-time as well as my own my plant based attempts (which use, say, velerian which contains valeric acid as well as complimetary acids, in addition to straight valeric acid), and he has a lot of other things in his pallette, as well.
He’s also been working with friends who are trying to figure out what additional chemicals the the real thing might have. They just take a different approach than most scientists. They rely a lot on their sense of smell (does this smell the same?) and their gut (does this feel the same?). They’re reverse engineers (and what we’re really doing here is reverse engineering vaginal excretions, so we don’t have to actually farm people!), yes, but of a different kind than you might associate with those words.
I figure a real perfumer give it a shot, because copycat perfumes that are reverse engineered based on GC/MS type analysis are always terrible. They should, technically, smell similar, if not the same. However, they never do. The right perfumer, on the other hand, can often recreate an olfactory reality quite nicely.
Also, one of these lovely folks is creating them in a way very similar to how the human body itself creates them. Basically, creating a human copulin farm, minus the humans. This is an idea I had in passing years ago, and it just tickles me pink that someone was driven enough actually had the will to do this. (on their own, too – unless they picked up on my passing thought years back; mind you, I don’t have the prequisite understanding to do this myself… that’s why it was passing thought).
The only thing that was abandoned was having me formulate them myself, and instead assigning the task to people who could perhaps do it in a more time efficient or realistic manner. I’ve also abandoned changing my own oil for… god knows how long… but I do drive on most days. Heh.
Hey, that’s okay. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re welcome.
I know long messages can feel punishing to read by some people at times, so I’m just glad you understand that the length of my response is meant to be educational, not punitive. heh.
Then she’s giving you misinformation. I don’t know why she’s saying that. She was definitely phone for about an hour with Jasmin on Friday. We have a third party verifiable phone log, so this is a fairly durable fact, unless her child or husband (or whomever) answered and pretended to be her.
Tisha may be a PM person and not count phone calls as communication, but Jasmin is more of a voice and in-person person. She gets sort of dumbfounded or distracted by other things responding to PMs sometimes, which makes her less than reliable in that medium. I like people to do mostly what they excel at, so I far prefer she call people or schedule an appointment.
I’m even worse than that. I certainly like writing, but not PMs. I’m too long winded to be at all time-efficient in that medium. Takes me too long to write for the kind of volume that PMing often requires. I could never be the kind of person who could answer 50 PMs or emails a day, unless I could somehow cheat and freeze time so I could seem faster than I am. Over 1 or 2 a text communications a day, and my whole life is bogged down and the work I do best ceases after my energy is spent.
In general, I don’t try to squeeze blood from a stone. I’m efficient at other things, so it’s those other things that I focus on. There’s always certain things that NEED to be done, but beyond those, again, I like people to do what they’re really good at. What comes as naturally as breathing. It’s the best use of resources, catalyzes any endeavor, and generally makes people much happier than having them beat their head against the wall doing things they’re just not structured for. Since life is a system, that happiness is then shared. It’s a positive feedback loop. Generative.
In most workspaces, where people are often assigned to the very thing they’re not good at, it’s something else that’s passed around. This inefficiency of the human model, the human engine, creates emotional and mental pollution, every bit as real as toxins being pumped into the air from a badly designed gas or diesel engine. Horrible stuff. A huge chokepoint in human evolution.
To me, meta-views and re-organization based on these type of things should be as common as properly arranging your furniture maximally for proxemics. (then again, while lots of people arrange furniture, I don’t quite know if most arrange for the best human end-result like that… mostly it’s just arranged to “look good”, but not necessarily work well)
Anyway, this just happens to be one thing I’m competent at. Of course, I guess I’m showing you that while I’m perhaps the world’s most incapable PMers (and not so good at lots of other things, too, trust me), at least I am good at something.
(each of the 3 people working on copulins, btw, is doing something where I’m not exactly competent in comparison, btw – the right person on the right task can be a real key)
Whow, Wait a minute here… My family would never answer the phone and pretend to be me and I did tell silly kitty no one had called but I knew she read my post so I thought she meant since Jasmin called me. I did post in this very thread that Jassy called right here.
I don’t misinform people unless the people I trust misinform me. If I so I always take responsibility and correct it
Now you got some major miscommunication going on but I have nothing to do with it. Re-read this thread.
You are saying>>>>
But in this thread Jasmin states she checked the logs and they had no cops in the last few batches.
Might not is a hell of a long way from 2006. We have all been told Batches are made frequantly so I dont think your using 2006 Instant sexiness but I could be wrong.
I know I have called and talked to Steve hundreds of times. We talked about Instant sexiness and copulins and never once was it mentioned to me that it didn’t have them. Seems odd to me since he is the person we are supposed to call when we have questions. I think it would be a good ideal to let him know whats in the formulas so when a consumer calls he can direct them to what they are looking for. He is a trust worthy person and I know he would not reveal whats in the products but its information he needs to know so these miscommunication don’t happen. By the way in rsponse to Jasmins question to the members about disliking Steve. I know I dont, I love the guy and always will. I am not capable of hate. I told Jasmin that without him I sont think the store would be doing as well as it is and I truely mean that.
Anywhoooo…
I also have more then a few PM’s from Jasmin responding to my questions on copulins. Never once was it mentioned Instant sexiness didn’t have them. I plainly said they did in my PM to her and she did not correct me.
You have way more customers here then can call in and talk to you on the phone. Granted you mention that in 2007 Jassy told numerous people on the phone that you were running low on copulins. In mid 2008 you could still buy products with 5X and 20X the copulins added. This threw many people off as well. If your so low on something you had to take the trace amount out of the regular products why would you offer 20X the copulins. Seems to me it would have been better to hang onto them until you had a new formula. I have 20X the copulin in products like Ishine IH Instant sexiness.
We talk about Instant sexiness having cops right into 2008 on the forum and no one corrected or said “hey wait a minute, I was told” . Some of these posts I mention Steve Jasmin or you have responses in and nothing was corrected. Probably just a over site but it could be part of what made us misunderstand.
I can see how the misunderstanding happened. I don’t think its anyone’s fault really. Its hard to convey everything you want to say on the phone or in a PM. I think your formulation station section will solve many of these issues and its a great ideal. I think the company is rapidly growing if the forum is any indication and I just think its all part of the bumps that happen with rapid growth.
Rapid growth just means your doing something right with the products.
Still its more about communicating then it is about copulins. That has improved at least for the time being so I am sure it will all work itself out now.
There is no need. Just the words Thank you would have been enough. Frankly I this is the first time you ever acknowledged me. I used to tell Steve I didnt think you were real . LOL
By the way, Your welcome 
Tisha
Brave new world.
Somehow I want to say mommy daddy don’t fight…
I just want everyone to be happy here.
I’ve been re-testing my bnol over the weekend and one of my other roomies is joining us on the forums now. Tuesday? my order of mx’s and putatives should be here so I’m going to take Monday and tuesday off and then figure out what to test.
I admit if androtics had a product like EOW I would love to buy it from you guys but I’m pretty chill on waiting.Science is a creative field so is perfumery I know that sometimes people don’t look at science as creative but you have to think. What is science but people imagining things others haven’t and putting it to the test?
Who would have thought ages ago that we would have “happy sprays”, Jet planes, solar cars,check out lanes that didn’t have cashiers and bag boys, bionic arms, chips that help us hear the world, cures for diseases, submarines,talking vibrators (wtf)?? or even the internet.
Somehow like an artist trying to paint a picture I don’t think we can push and rush our way into better copulins. People need time,encouragement and inspiration.
Frankly the only idea I have (short of taking 20-100 women at the prime age for conception putting them on the same diet checking their hormone levels+applicable bodily fluid and having them come in at key points in the menstral cycle) is for those of us gals who are ovulating and viable to send in underwear or something like that.
Its really hard I would think to approach this subject in terms of perfumery its hard enough for an ob gyn to explain the “whiff” test. So frankly I’m not surprised that its taking a long time to evolve.
Technically its medical grade research combined with perfumery at which point you have a goal for an accurate synthesis of a smell but also one that’s not offensive like EOW.
So for now I’m happy to rely on my own output and to test whatever mx’s and putatives are available.
I had to giggle when I read this, Electra.
All the information is all there already in the literature, since lady juice has been thoroughly studied since the 1970’s. Hell, it is even possible to find (in the literature) the electro-gradient potentials of the epithelial cells of the lining of the vagina in different sections depending on the place the woman is in her cycle, which is partially dependent on trace amounts of electrolytes in vaginal secretions.
It is just a matter of figuring out what questions to ask, re-framing what is already known, and getting down to the real work of taking all that knowledge and putting it to use in novel ways. It is pioneering work in that we each are breaking new ground in the directions we are taking and in the purpose for our work.
Even though a perverse part of me is amused by the thought of hundreds of nubile ladies lining up to donate their panties to science, it really isn’t necessary. <snort>
Diane
Levity
Are you sure? 
I can just imagine the piles now.
As fedex wonders why their mail line to Androtics is suddenly less efficient…