For me, seeing this aired out in the open, in full view of forum members, new and old customers alike, adds even more credibility to Smartmones-Androtics.
Similar events at other companies would promptly be hushed, with any evidence of controversy and business/political miscommunication erased from the ‘public’ record.
Both the customers and Androtics are the winners here - but also losers punished with the loss of a legendette.
I’ll wrap up by thanking the moderators/management for the open communication that has transpired from this, you certainly have my respect and I am happy to call myself an Androtics customer.
Hi Tisha,
Just checked my batch and it says batch number 6 so I think it may contain some cops as the quote said isa/b contained them up till batch 302. Maybe I got the old batch but I don’t mind I LOVE the scent. I sprayed some on my friend today and she said she smells a “funky” underscent. I can’t smell it.
Something interseting happened at my best friends house today. Her husband isnt that wild about me but today he followed me into the kitchen and talked to me. I also made a dessert that was delish. Normaly this guy will taste it and say its ediable. This time he tasted it and got a HUGE smile on his face and could not stop smiling!!! He was SOO nice to me. I loved it as he isnt too friendly to me most of the time. So buying phermones = a nice experment for me the result my best friend thats like a sister to me husbands treating me like a real live person PRICELESS!!!I used 1 spray of Instant Sexiness he showed NO sex vibe towards me but was VERY nice.I could not be happier.
My friend and I racewalk. I am very outgoing she is def NOT. Today before we walked I sprayed 1 spray of Instant Sexiness on her. It took about 3 min then she was giggling and carrying on like ME. Her normal self is MOODY with a capitol M. While I interact with other walkers she will remain quite.I hit both of us with 1 spray of IS the org. Her mood changed SOO much. She was like a different person. I was thinking wow what happened to my bitchy friend. I love her like a sis but she is NOT Ms. personailty. She always jokes thats what she has ME for. I really enjoyed this side of her way more relaxed and chatty. I applied it to her neck and had her rub her wrists and into her hair. It REALLY had a strong effect on her husband. He could not stop smiling.Its crazy but when I inhale this product I get this kinda high feeling. I feel it in my head first then it goes through my entire body. Same thing with Instant Honesty. Regular perfume doesnt do this to me.
I noticed the Instant Honestly also seems to have a strong effect on people. Just be careful about putting it to close to your own face. People men,women and teens really wanted to open up to me when I was wearing this. On a trip the teen boys and 1 teen girl really opened up to me about problems they were having in school. They were over eager to tell me what was going on. We talked for over an hour. They had to make rules as to who could to me first. I loved that these children were able to open up to me and I gave them some suggestions on how to deal with these issues. I feel that many adults simply blow off the concerns of a child for the simple fact they are children. This can cause problems for them later in life. The funny thing is the Instant Honesty made ME relaxed and even though I am a VERY chatty person I was able to calm down become more relaxed and focused and was helpful to people. It even helped me relax when getting ready for bed. I LOVE the IH it is great. Maybe it is the magic potion in a bottle that helps people like me to relax?
I just have some quick questions and comments. First off, if IS/A hasnt had any cops for at least 2008, then how could you get IS/A with 5X cops OR 20X cops, IE: MX250! If there was no cops in this product what were we buying? (as someone said earlier 20 times zero, is zero)…
To me that comes off as confusing.
Also, there is a pheromone user guide that the wonderful Tisha did for us ladies. In that it mentions traces of cops in IS/A and IS/B. Now I understand that this waswritten by TIsha, but I would think that Androtics would have taken a look at this post at least ONCE in the time it has been every new woman’s phero bible. It definetly needs to get corrected there for future confusion. AND if that gets corrected can someone from androtics confirm that the other information in that first post is correct. I know it is constatly referred to, and therefore used as a guide to a lot of phero discoveries.
Can I second that? I have both Mx250 (30mL & togo bottles) and IS/b 5x
If they don’t have cops in them what is it that makes them so “fragrant”? Even strong chocolatini scent doesn’t cover even half of that fragrance… There’s no mistaking that cops smell…
I completely understand that as a company you can’t tell us exactly what’s in the phero mixes, and I’m not asking you to, but I do think that the information given has been confusing and contradictory to say the least.
The womens phero Bible…we all refer to it, and we all tell newbies to read it to get the basics about phero’s. I don’t understand how it could have gone unnoticed by Androtics for so long if the information in “the Bible” is indeed incorrect…
As a last comment I’d just like to ask why the focus of this thread has zoomed in on the cops issues pretty much exclusively… Noone seems to mention the other issues, which to me are just as, if not more, important. Noone from Androtics has commented on the posts made by some forum members where the questions about censoring were raised… Why is that? Why are posts that are not inflammatory, spiteful or argumentative being deleted?
Well this is a company owned forum. I suppose they come about as near to the mark of “Live & Uncensored” as a commercial interest can (note that phrase was removed the the PheroTalk logo months ago). You’ll find similar and often much heavier censorship policies at other company forums, e.g., LoveScent or Apple. If you truly desire open discussion of mones, you need to start a forum unaffiliated with commercial interests and run by the users. I belong to a couple photographer forums like that. But they’re always struggling with bandwidth and funding…
Your points are very true. This IS a company owned forum and they by all means get censor what is on their site. It would make things a little easier if we knew what the censoring criteria is.
Obviously SPAM and outright spiteful posts may be deleted. BUT it would be nice to have some ideas or guidlines. Not knowing what is ok and what will all of a sudden be decided as not okay can really effect the atmosphere. No one wants to have to constatly watch and check to see if their posts were deleted or even CHANGED.
As you said Androtics removed the"Live and Uncesored" months back…well do we know now what the policy is? It would be nice to be given an idea… if that makes sense.
Indeed, while I was not here at that time, when “Live & Uncensored” was in their logo, I did go to archive.org and looked up Pherotalk.com, and indeed there was such a logo during the archived 2007 version of the forum.
I was wondering the same thing, I’m glad you brought that up.
There are the issues of legal liability, especially where other companies are concerned - and that because this is a company-owned site.
Moderation is about keeping the posting moderate and flame proof - so I thought, and that is censoring in a way. I don’t see much of that going on here. Personally, I think a few timeouts would do some good, but that is just my own personal opinion. I think that flames should always be removed and the poster asked to temper their thoughts before posting. There is no reason adults can’t speak to each other in reasonable ways without name calling and inviting wars on the board.
What I think of this site is that they intend to do their best to keep this a forum where divergent view can meet without pushing one agenda over another or pouring water over one view over another… and in that regard its philosophy is to keep that part uncensored and free flowing.
My above response to Mharris was to point our why I thought the whole big “copulingate” incident happened. Not to judge but to examine what went wrong and how, so we can learn from it. If we don’t learn from it and move ahead into a positive solution then it was all for nothing. They said mistakes occurred and Jasmin and Michael apologized and are making a effort to clear things up.
As far as I know nothing was deleted when I was mod except if it was hurtful or racist or about certain companies many members where told not to talk about on this forum for legal reasons. Oh and if it had personal account info like your name or account number we would delete it because it shouldn’t be on a open forum. As a mod you can see if something was deleted.
If your referring to this post in the beginning when it was deleted it was because some people viewed the remarks made as hurtful and unproductive to the forum. I was no longer mod then so I don’t know what transpired.
But Its like I said negativity attracts more negativity and this whole thread is the perfect example. I wish I worded what I said to Steve differently in a more positive manner while still getting my point across. Yes even the Queen of positive fumbles sometimes. I didn’t mean he was a mean person I just meant it was a insensitive thing to say because it was easily misunderstood and the ladies have been waiting for copulins for so long. I know he never meant it the way we all took it or meant to hurt anyone. He is not that way but he is human to. I believe he posted above how he felt in this thread. If the comment I made about him being a tease and what he said being “kinda mean” hurt him I am sorry but he knows I say whats on my mind. He does as well… shit happens, you make the best of it… life goes on.
Lets look at the good points of this whole thread though…
Androtics is reaching out and interacting more.
We found out about the copulins or lack of them in products so now when new people are looking for a certain response then we can all give better advice.
MHarris talked about the outlook for future cops and what they are doing about that as well as a lot of other important details.
They now know how important copulins are to the female members.
Just the fact they left the post here shows they are a caring company.
Sure there are those who complain about the “drama” but you know what drama happens in families and if you don’t like it maybe this is not the family for you. To me the people you choose to spend time with are your chosen family. You cant choose your real one they just come with the package deal LOL
Hi jlynn, I am not up on the batch numbers. You will have to ask Jasmin. I believe she said she was checking into it. If it dosnt you can always get some EOW to use with Instant sexiness till the formula is done here. Its inexpensive and there is a post to teach you how to use it in the sticky section. Lasts pretty long to. Oh and you can post where ever you want
I know most of you are referring to the censorship of “that place.” Why is there no communication, no acknowledgment that it exists even, as a company? Why are we banned from speaking about them or their products here?
There are real, live issues that underlie that corporate position of Androtics.
It is not a bee in their bonnet policy over perceived competition.
I’m going to be burning some bridges with this post. I know many of you love that place, and shop there a lot. That is your personal choice and your prerogative. I have no judgement either way. Their product is entirely separate from this one.
But please, understand that the corporate position that Androtics takes is in response to a real, not perceived, not imagined, not dramatized issue.
There are immense liability issues with discussing the “whys” behind it in a public forum.
I debated about posting a (very) simplistic analogy, but decided against it.
PLEASE, please, if you are having concerns regarding censorship and post deletion, please pick up the phone and call Jasmin.
Please understand me when I post this - I was the one who started this ruckus with that response to Steve and Jasmin, lambasting them for faulty communication, lies and obfuscation, and a faulty policy of honesty and openness.
I spoke at great length to Jasmin regarding many of these issues before she and MHarris came back and posted their replies to our concerns.
Jasmin has bent over backwards to make herself available to your questions. They are taking this issue very seriously, and as Lor pointed out, are equally flattered that they as a company and a product are taken so personally by us all, and equally shocked and horrified that things have gone so awry.
It is due to no maliciousness, I assure you. These are good, honest people trying to correct their mistakes.
Lets meet them halfway.
If you have concerns, please call Jasmin. This is a readily solvable issue and question/concern.
If you feel that you are being given a company line, you are free to take the information and do with it as you please. But, at least you will HAVE the information. You will have knowledge. Knowledge is power. The actions you choose to take with that are yours entirely.
Many, indeed, probably all of you will remain loyal to the other company. As your own choice, made with full knowledge of what’s what, that is is just fine.
The point of this post is not to dissuade you from using one company or another, or to feed you Androtics party lines.
The point is to acknowledge that we have been met in the middle by Androtics. Lets reach back and ask the questions that the are very willing to answer.
This whole thing was a communications failure, from top to bottom. Lets not exacerbate that.
If you want answers, you know where to find them.
Pick up the phone.
I hate to say it , but I think you’ve been smokin’ the kool-aid.
The censorship issue was about alot more than mentioning some other company or site. It was about changing thread titles and a couple of words here and there. It was about about changing other people’s spelling and punctuation. Situations where the only thing that was threatened was free speech.
And as high and mighty as these principles are, right now it is being used as a diversion from the real question.
OooohYahhh, (I never get the right amount of O’s and H’s in there…)
I cannot speak to that censorship issue as I was not a member at the time that occurred. As I understood it, that was another time Tisha fought like hell and prevailed for the forum members. Like I said, I do not have the full details.
Please understand that my post above was directed only towards those users who are specifically concerned about the censorship regarding “that place.” (Hence the “…most of you are referring to …” )
I make my living NOT drinking the Kool-aid.
The point of my post was, once again, to reach back towards Androtics, who has extended their hand in communication. If we have already made up our minds to not listen, we are going nowhere.
You have a question that you need answering too. I cannot answer it for you, obviously. Its a good, valid question. I would also encourage you to call, and to keep asking the question publicly as well. There is nothing wrong with your question, or with any questions.
Whats wrong is not taking the opportunity to ask them, of the right people, in the right medium, at the right time, when that opportunity has been extended to us.
Yes, you certainly are. You’re a mighty fine writer. I would venture that you probably have a couple thousand words on this that you haven’t posted. I know I do.
I was entertained by your reference to Taguchi. It carried me back to what for me are now ‘old times’ in manufacturing. Taguchi experiments and Quality circles were the part I enjoyed. The SPC, TQM, MTM, GAMP, JIT, etc. brought me to believe that anything with an acronym was a bad idea. At the time this was all considered part of the bright new future for American manufacturing. You can see how well that all worked out. lol
I suppose that it is only fair that I make public confession. Now is probably as a good a time as any. I ‘see’ the ebb and flow of economies. Macro and micro. I have a “talent”. (I have several other names for it. Most of them not good.) I don’t usually enjoy it. It is difficult to communicate. Unless there is risk or benifit to people I care about. How much of your 401K is left? (Yes, you) It would be a lot more if you had been listening to me the first couple of weeks in October. It took several days of false starts and prodding from Tisha before I could really begin to write about what was about to happen. Fortunately it did not develop to even half of it’s potential. But tell that to your retirement account.
Now at some point somebody is going to say why does he care? Perhaps an introduction is in order. I am an ex-steelworker from a mill town just outside Pittsburgh Pa. When I left my hometown almost thirty years ago over a third of the storefronts on the main street were boarded up. Another third were struggling. The remainder were surviving. We did not give the customers what they needed. The Japanese came into our market. They kicked our ass. They took our jobs. Therefore, I can say with a high degree of certainty, any company that does not satisfy it’s customer’s demands will cease to exist. Along with the community around it.
To me economics is not a theory in a book or a professor at a university. Economies are living breathing things that give companies, and the communities around them, life. And death.
More to the point, why does he give a damn about copulins? Because it didn’t make sense. You’ll remember that I’ve been saying for months that it didn’t make sense. Every reason, every rationalization, every piece of information had a hole in it’s logic. My vision failed. Repeatedly. That puts me on the hunt.
(BTW, for those concerned about security, I’ve left out the information from a couple of pieces of my own research, a piece of private communication, and one key deduction infered by previous threads.)
The potential return for copulins, both financial and in market position was fantastic. It is only a slight exageration to say that the demand for copulins was insatiable. The barriers to entry, both financial and technological, were easily within reach. Product testing is in place and operational (and fanatically dedicated) The basic marketing channels are existing and operational. Given the financial resources, our executive management has the people skills to attract and motivate the finest formulary talent.
Well over a year ago, Androtics was poised to completely dominate the pheromone industry with the leading male product, A314, the development of the core female product, copulins, and a full line of consumer products. It would have been a virtual oligopy. It would have been years before any other competiter gained a significant market share.
Yet Androtics allowed itself to run almost completely out of copulins probably 8 months ago. (I can’t keep score anymore) And then waited several more months to bring formulary talent onboard and begin serious product development.
Huuuh??? What’s wrong with this picture?
EDIT: I should clarify this. There was probably a more or less continuous, relatively low level cop development program but it was not until well after supply ran out that it got serious.
To have virtually abandoned (technical term, not emotional) the copulin market meant immeadiate lost sales that most companies would fight tooth and nail to get and keep. To have ignored such an extraordinary opportunity to dominate the market is mind boggling. And then to have come back long after the most effective window of opportunity to begin serious product development…huuuhhhh???
A couple of days ago I realized why I couldn’t see. I had on the wrong shoes.
My perspective had been set firmly on the side of inexorable market forces. With the expectation of reflexive, and indeed, aggressive response to consumer demand (technical term, not emotional) as a prerequisite to survival. I think you can begin to understand my lifelong conditioning in that respect. Add in the personal loyalties to people here that I have come to love and respect, and it becomes difficult to be objective.
Part of the envisioning is rolling a multifaceted ball in my hands, watching the process from the perspective of each separate window. Some of them are customers. Some are operational. Some are competitors. Some are mangement.
And not a single one of them made sense. Then I realized that I forgotten to roll it in another direction. Kind of surprising, since in years past I used to give that one quite a bit of thought.
Somewhere in our 14,000 are the half a dozen that meet in the board room. Or maybe it’s a handful who sit behind mahogany desks and look out through the glass wall at a commanding view of the skyline. The money people. Or maybe even a single owner. The master of our universe.
Whatever the configuration is, I can give you the short version of what they tell Mike and Jasmine.
“Keep your eye on the prize.”
“Swing for the fences.”
“Don’t waste your resourses on half measures. We can buy people and machinery. The one most precious resource is the one that we can not buy. Time.”
“The priority is the Ammo launch. Everything else is secondary.”
How am I doing so far? Pretty close?
If this is true, then it would make perfect sense to allow the loss of a product in order to keep from diverting resources away from the priority project.
To belatedly revive the development of the copulin product is not rationally just an after thought. It had to be an appeal made by our executive staff. Likely an impassioned presentation. No matter how sound the reasoning presented, the only rationalization for that appeal is a loyalty to us, the customers.
It seems to me the fact that there is any copulin program at all means we probably owe Mr. Harris a debt of gratitude. Again.
LOL