When will you guys realize that LOOKS are almost all that matters!?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
122

Vapor said it well:

"
Quote:
By the way that logic is flawed in so many ways. You cant just name one or two ugly dudes with girlfriends and say that looks dont matter to women. Thats like saying that east asians are no shorter than caucasians because Yao Ming is 7 foot 6. ITS CALLED AN ANOMALY!
No, ugly dudes who have girlfriends have qualities other than looks that make them attractive to women. Some of those can be learned.

I’m not sure why you’re posting here. You aren’t going to change anybody’s mind, nobody is trying to convince you to do anything. You just seem determined to talk your friend out of pickup. Which is kind of weird, given it doesn’t affect you.
Quote:
Why do you guys always go ape shit every time a guy even SUGGESTS that LOOKS play a major role in attraction?
Everybody knows looks play a role. Nobody goes apeshit. You are creating straw man arguments."

Now what I want to know is this… Why did you guys feed the troll???

I called it right off… Reasons like this are why I pulled my pic, mind you I would pull a “J-&SBob” on his ass if he posted a pic of me on the open net without consent due to ownership violations and copyright, but come on guys leave the trolls alone.

123

12 pages of responses already. Wow!

I’ve only gone through a few, but has explored yet explored the notion that ugly men actually tend to do better with women than good looking men?

I tend to think of “pretty boys” like I think of Mustangs. Men notice 'em, and think all women want them, but is that really a women’s definition of beauty, or a man’s?

Men are competitive with “pretty boys”, yet how often are “pretty boys” really chosen by women?

Attraction is highly dependent on contrast. People seek their counterpoint, and through union, they are complete.

Women are soft, men hard, women are pretty, men ugly.

Frankly, I think ugliness for a man is just a cop out, and any resultant effects are from your own psych out. You’re preprogramming a result that doesn’t have to occur.

“Mystery” isn’t a pretty boy by nature. The only natural feature he has going for him is his height. (granted, that tends to be a pretty important one, since it does tend to be a key counterpoint issue to a woman’s height)

He even dresses up as a sort of freak, almost like a circus side show character, and he does fine with mainstream women who aren’t normally into goths or circuses. How do you explain his success? I’ve never seen a Tim Burton like character – no matter how tall – ever walk up to a mainstream women and have as much success as he does. Sure, they do well in their “niche” (other people who dress in black, etc.)… but not with San Diego or Datona beach girls, like Mystery can sometimes interface with.

People seek “completeness”, sure, but sometimes the contrast is just too stark. He obviously has something else going on.

124

It’s fun though!

125

The truth.

  • This is not a PUA forum, this is a pheromone forum.

  • Looks do not matter that much, unless you are really repulsive. Few people are, most people look so-so to decent, so on average, looks are not as important as you think.

  • Most truly good looking people are also above average in other qualities. The underlying factor is good genes. Good and bad qualities tend to cluster.

  • The difference between spoiled food and dry bread is bigger than the difference between a burger and a sirloin steak. If something is repulsive, you will not eat is if you have any other option, even if that other option is skipping a meal and being hungry. It works the same way with looks.

  • I’d rather date an okay looking guy with great character than a great looking guy with okay character.

  • That said, if a girl has to choose between dating a repulsive guy with an okay character and an okay looking guy with an ugly charcter, she will generally choose to stay home alone. Even if the girl herself is unattractive.

126

“she will generally choose to stay home alone. Even if the girl herself is unattractive.”

And that is how bad genes die out. LOL

127

It’s kinda funny… someone on his forum noted how he seems to be hardily losing the argument here.

Shh Milto… you are only mid-tier :stuck_out_tongue:

128

Ha, ha don’t know if I should sigh a sigh of relief or worry for being rated by a guy. :blush:

The only argument I have with this guy is that he thinks self improvement doesn’t help much, when it does in fact help. I used to look way different than I do now, was overweight, had a different image that didn’t suit me well, and therefore made me totally less unattractive. If I’m “mid-tier” now, back then I’m sure this would’ve been a different “rating” for the worse. So really, a little make over goes along way along with a positive confident attitude.

129

Well yes, if someone is repulsive, that is nature loudly advertising this person is not fit to start a family with. Unpleasant as it is to those who carry bad genes, evolution would not work if bad genes went undetected.

There are ways to act like an attractive person, but it has to be congruent and credible. An average person can fool people with attractive body language, voice, dress, because nature does not send out that loud a message for him. Fast food is not that great in taste and advertising helps sell it, but no one could sell a spoiled meat sandwich no matter how good the advertising is.

That said, sometimes average, or a bit below average people see themselves as being incredibly ugly. A lot of not so great genes like being short, or fat arent dealbreakers universally. A person who is skinny as a rail would have normal sized kiids with a fat person and if both have a reasobly pleasant personality and appearance the resulting offspring can be quite healthy so a mutual attraction would be good in evolutional terms. They may even prefer eachother to an average person.

130

I totally understand what you have to say, but then does that mean that a burn victim will have to live life alone? If so, that sucks but I still like to think that there are some people out there that can see through all that and still fall in love with them with whatever else they have to offer.

131

A burn victim may have a very unpleasant looking face, but will still have other things that are evidence of good genes. And if you burn someplace other than the eyes, mouth or nose, it hardly affects your general appearance. On top of that, some people are already committed before they get burned. At that point, it is not going to matter much. I would not leave a man I loved over something like that.

Seal has some scarring in the face for example, it does not affect his romantic success that much.

132

Good example.

133

He married Heidi Klum. If it affected him, it affected it positively. :slight_smile:

“Broken bones heal. Chicks dig scars.”
– Captain Lance Murdoch

134

Hell… even from personal experience

I had a period where I was feeling really good about myself - I remember seriously thinking to myself “Once I’ve got my foot in that door, I’m good enough that noone can resist me” - and my experiences were actually proving that to be true. The ladies were practically falling at my feet.

About a year later I was going through a low period (my externally validated positive confidence feedback loop had collapsed and my confidence was far, far too closely tied to that external validation) - I reeked of desperation (I hadn’t made the realization that externally validated confidence can be so dangerous) and as a direct result I found my success was… lacking.

My looks hadn’t changed in that year (well actually I’ve been universally told by my female friends that I get better looking on a yearly basis as I age… I was a very ackward looking teenager) but my ability to get laid certainly had (in a negative way).

135

I think Reeking of desperation is scary. :slight_smile: Maybe a fear molecule people put out when they hit that level.

A woman can be a knock out but if shes putting out that desperate clingy vibe most sensible guys are like whoa shit psycho..

136

^^^

I believe Argamemnon is advanced’s second account?

137

ask steve to check IPs

138

looks matter, but they don’t matter how you think they do.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/dating-market-value-test-for-men/
http://forum.askjdog.com/2009/07/02/kino-and-body-language-to-being-a-better-pua/page1/

http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=11&mn=1243086810558231&refine=subject%3D%26author%3Dijjjj%26datefrom%3Djan%25201%25201999%26body%3D%26dateto%3Djan%25201%25202010

Date: May 23rd, 2009 09:53:30 AM (EDT)
Group: alt.seduction.fast.beginners
Author: NoMoreFatChix
Email/Info: <mASF profile>
This article is under strict © copyright rules. For personal use only.
This post is really about what directly translated from my native tongue is called “glimpse in the eye” (norwegian: “glimt i øyet”. Unfortunately I have no idea what this is called in english, but it is basically about being good looking/charismatic. It makes girls wet.

Two things I noticed:

  1. There was this guy in a studygroup I was in recently who really had the “glimpse in his eye”. What puzzled me was that I really couldn’t figure out exactly what it was that did it. He was only perhaps slightly above average looking, and he wore quite boring clothes, had a boring haircut etc. It wasn’t something about how he used words either.

Then, sometime later, I bumped into this guy at the gym where I work out. I really couldn’t believe I hadn’t noticed this before: The guy had extremely good posture! Actually, now that i first noticed it, I found it abit exaggerated, like he was overdoing it. Chest out, shoulders back, walking around the gym in an almost ridiculously masculine way (btw, the guy was fit, but not extremely big). Like I said, I was almost shocked that I hadn’t seen this at once! Could this be a major contributing factor to him having “the glimpse”?

  1. I discovered while looking in the mirror, comparing my good vs. bad posture, that my FACE actually looks better when my posture is good and I TILT MY HEAD SLIGHTLY BACKWARDS. Maybe not as in objectively more ‘beautiful’, my face is still my face right, but more charismatic somehow. My best explanation for this is that I look more authorative, since I look slightly downwards at the person in front of me, but at the same time, this is a very open body language. What looks best for different people MIGHT of course be individual. For me, tilting head backwards together with a genuine warm smile, I think is the ultimate.

A MINI field test of this:
When entering a club yesterday I walked around the club for a bit on my own, being very concious of my posture, and in particular, tilting my head slightly backwards. I walked past a 3-set of quite attractive girls (two of them where about 8’s on my scale, this means they are hotter than the typical girl I am able to pull), actually I would say this was the most attracitve set at this place right then (small place). The two 8’s both gave me quite strong EC as I walked past. I did nothing. Later, while sitting on a bar stool right next to the dance floor, these three girls started dancing right next to me. One of them came so close she was practically giving me a lap dance, OBVIOUSLY calling out for my attention with her ass almost in my lap. I still did nothing except sit there with my excellent posture Then, I decided to get up, and maybe do some dancing myself, but I didn’t get far before this girl just grabbed me and pulled me in, starting to dance and grind with me.

I know this isn’t much ‘evidence’, but it definetely leads me to the suspicion that having the so-called “glimpse in the eye” has ALOT to do with posture, and in particular, how you hold your head.

A.

http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=12&mn=1241416822554654&refine=subject%3D%26author%3Dijjjj%26datefrom%3Djan%25201%25201999%26body%3D%26dateto%3Djan%25201%25202010

139

Very interesting observations. :slight_smile: I’m going to try that tomorrow to see what happens. Just to make it a more objective test I’ll wear a phero combo that I know how people react to. Maybe Instant Gentleman and MX201/P93. I love that combination already and by standing up straight (which the IG makes me want to do anyhow) maybe it will work even better.

140

I think women can get away with a little more “clingy” than guys. Seems to be more in the female nature and I never seem to be able to totally escape it. But, yeah, if I’m feeling desperate, women flee before me. Sorta like having leprosy. At that point the best thing is to ignore all women and go on a week long drunk. Works really well in bringing back the “I don’t give a fuck” vibe. Oddly, women seem to drop from the ceiling on me when I could care less…

141

Here is an almost 30 page thread on the subject. Those old Tacitus posts were worth reading again, along with some from other names I haven’t seen in a while.