Kids, can you spell troll?
T..R..O..L..L! Yay! You did it!
This was a fun way to kill a lot of time. I need to get back to studying.
Looks matter, but everything is relative, and any advantage can be trumped by something else.
Oh, so that’s how you do it, huh? Maybe I’ll have to try it sometime. 
@PheroQuirk: Posture is very important. Ever since I’ve started going to the gym on a regular basis, I began focusing on my form and posture as a priority (mostly to avoid any future back injuries). What I’ve noticed is that I’ll turn more heads that way, than my previous, slouched posture. It only makes sense. Even when I check out girls, I notice the ones that have good posture, it makes them even hotter.
As for the ‘glint in the eye’, my dad used to say a similar thing. He’d always say something about someone and I’d ask him how he knew. For example, he might meet someone and say, hmmm…that’s a very intelligent fellow. I would ask, why do you say that? How do you know? He would reply, he just has a certain ‘shine in his eye’, a sharpness if you will.
Well, if you think this why you were told to “gtfo” then man your just not getting it. I will go so far as saying i actually agree with you to an extent. Looks are important in attraction, but obviously not everything.
I see dudes with hot chicks all the time where i say to myself or my mates as a joke
" That dude must have money or a massive penis cause his looks sure didnt attract her."
So much do i see it where i think that physically i am more attractive than that guy it sometimes gets me down.
My point is, looks are bar no means everything!
Maybe your friend hangs with the PUA cult cause they support him. Maybe if you supported him a little more he wouldnt need their praise. So you think he should just give up like you? All i know is i wouldnt be hanging round a friend like you. He is up there having a crack and what are you doing.
You see it all the time - Girls with large breasts who have terrible posture (it looks like they are constantly hunching their shoulders)
IMO that is the greatest argument for breast reduction/working out a girl could ever have - the hunched look is not attractive
ADVANCED HAS RETURNED ONCE MORE!
Well theres positive support and negative support. If one of your friends was a heroin addict would you support his habbit or try to get him to stop?
Anyways guys…I am doing what I am doing to shine a light on all of these scams that target single desperate lonely heterosexual males. It is cruel how they are being exploited.
Um…that VERY rarely happens in real life… I think you need to spend more time opening your eyes and looking around rather than watching sitcoms where fat dudes have attractive wives.
ALL of my ugly friends are ether virgins or have ONLY had sex with hookers (which in my book doesnt count). ALL OF THEM!!! 100 percent!!!
I also have a good looking friend that is socially awkward as hell and shy to boot and he always has a girl in his life. explain that.
So what do you suggest as an alternative to bettering yourself and learning new social interaction skills? Just quitting and hope to be reincarnated as a handsome man in your next life? Where are you going with this?
I have a place where intelligent like-mined people discuss a variety of topics and a moron posts there too, explain that. 
Straw man much, JustCrack?
I have a friend that is bald and really average and his GF is a a stunner that you’ll see in the 2012 Summer Olympics. Yeah. So there.
Chairman Mao, turn the computer off and go outside. You are really embarrassing yourself more than before. Just bow out now with a shred of dignity left.
What do you consider to be ugly, anyway?
I’d say two things that could help explain that, at least a little bit.
1. He may be a good deal taller than his girlfriends.
Women tend to have a natural proclivity towards men who are much taller than them. Not too tall to be totally awkward, but… tall enough to be a good deal “taller” than the lady in question.
Height does seem to play a larger role than “cuteness” to women. If you look at personal ads, you’ll constantly see “taller than me” as a requirement. Few, if any, ever say, “I’d like a man my same height or shorter”
Of course, they’ll take actually a man the same height, or even shorter, if he makes up for it in some other area. However, that won’t fill their “pre-qualifications”. He’ll have to meet her and let the other facts override the height difference. Short men who actually say they’re short tend to have a hell of a time getting over that prejudice in online personals.
Anyway, I’ve had lots of female friends througout my life. Probably the #1 thing that has pushed women over the edge of simply making themselves available, to actually being assertive with a male the way they wish certain men were with them, involves shape. Many will aggressively pursue men who are tall and skinny (or sometimes tall and wide if they’re of certain nationalities).
Keep in mind that extreme skinniness also tends to increase the perception of height. Perceptually, an extremely skinny man who is a mere 3" taller in actuality, may appear to be just as tall as a wider man who is 5" taller.
Speaking of shape again, most women who pursue men do also tend to show a preference for men with symmetrical features. Those features don’t have to be pretty, but symmetry places a huge role. There are a few studies dealing with this.
Maybe your “ugly” friends simply aren’t symmetrical.
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2. He might not be so shy when it counts.
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All men get a testosterone spike around women, or at least the right women. This might just be the boost your friend needs to be assertive at the right moments.
You might notice that some guys, out of nowhere, seem to get very funny around women. Yet they’re not normally funny, or not normally that funny. This is that hormonal spike at work.
Train yourself to be aware of this. It’s interesting to watch nature at work.
Social interaction skills dont mean a damn thing if girls brush you off within seconds.
Cosmetic surgery can greatly improve one’s appearance. I have already gotten 1 procedure and I am planning 6-8 more in the future.
Actually he’s 5’7.
I am 6’2 and Im still a virgin so…height is not everything. Height does play SOME role but facial appearance is MOST important. A short pretty boy or alpha male still beats an average looking tall guy 100 percent of the time.
Of course theres a limit as to how short you can be…a 5’2 guy is not going to have luck with women no matter how he looks in the face.
Obviously we would try to help our friend stop his LIFE-THREATENING habit, just as some of your friends should help you when you talk about killing yourself.
Let me ask you this, and I would like an answer instead of just ignoring my points that you can’t argue with: If you and all your friends were heroin addicts, and this one friend was doing EVERYTHING he could to stop using heroin, would you tell him that “drug addicts are drug addicts and that’s that. you could never be sober.” or would you help him to improve himself??
That’s a much more accurate analogy, one that I bet you can’t debate. I got five bucks saying you’re either going to ignore this post or say that “the pua community (which is actually just a commercialized self-improvement community) is some sort of brainwashing cult just out to make money and ruin lives.” I’ll respect you a lot more if you come up with a valid point.
Also, before you accuse anyone of “exploiting single desperate lonely heterosexual males,” I would suggest having some basis to this argument, as by making these accusations without any sort of evidence, you look like a fool.
It’s very noble of you to try “to shine a light on all of these scams” but you have NO REASON to think this is a scam. Although I’m a recent member to the Pheromone/Androtics community, I can tell you that I’ve never experienced any company providing the kind of customer service Androtics does for their customer. I mean they give you 25 dollars JUST FOR SIGNING UP. Jesus. In fact, I bet they would still give you a gift certificate for writing your little intro and then you could prove yourself wrong for free. You have no excuse if that ends up being the case.
I’ll give you a quick lesson on human psychology. Humans are social learners. What that means is that we learn from interacting with and from observing people.
To clarify what I mean, I’ll use an extreme example. Let’s pretend you’re a young kid around 6 years old or so. If you saw a sleazy-looking guy walk up to a woman he didn’t know and start groping her, then in response he got slapped and kicked in the balls, you would automatically learn a couple things from that experience:
You would know, based on previous experience, that he couldn’t have gotten beaten up just because he approached her (assuming you had seen someone approached before, which everyone has.) So that leaves a few other variables. Was it his sense of style? How he walked? What kind of shoes he was wearing? What city he was born in? Or the fact that he had stuck his hand down her pants before meeing her?
At 6 years old, it could have potentially been all these things (or others), but as you have many other experiences in your life, you realize that generally, one won’t get slapped for wearing a certain kind of shoes. Eventually you will realize that he was slapped and kicked because he inappropriately touched her. This was just the first example that came to mind, but hopefully you understand.
We are social creatures. This is how many learn how to be “socially successful.” As kids especially (up until age 18) looks can give you a big advantage. However, even as an “ugly” kid, with the right personality you can be fantastically successful. Being good-looking as a kid will get you some of the “freebies,” and this will, in turn, help you develop social skills and game, because… we are SOCIAL learners. Let’s take a moment here and take all that in…
Cool. Now not all good looking kids develop these social skills, but the ones that do generally don’t have to work as hard to fine tune them. Which I agree, isn’t fair, but it doesn’t mean that less good-looking people can’t develop these skills. Without being good-looking during childhood, there are few resources to develop game. This is why we have such a thing as the PUA community. If it was all a scam, why would most products offer a full money back guarantee? (Actually speaking of which, Androtics offers a 2x money back guarantee.) The PUA community provides a venue to learn these skills for those who did not develop them socially.
As for your good looking friend, he obviously is fishing from the "freebie barrel. I can assume that these girls aren’t high-quality. Some perhaps are good-looking, but aren’t the kinds of girls who have their shit together. Otherwise she would be with someone who wasn’t “socially awkward as hell.”
As for your remark to MHarris that he needs to “open up his eyes” because “that rarely happens in real life,” I advise you to heed your own advice. Our brains are set up to continually find evidence to support the beliefs we have. Your brain believes that “ugly” guys can’t get hot girls. So your brain unconsciously finds evidence to back that belief up. This is a problem because your brain has most likely been building on that belief for your entire life, so it’s almost like an absolute truth in your mind.
What you need to do is open your brain to the possibility that this belief is false, if only for the reason that if it is false, you could end up marrying and spending the rest of your life with a beautiful woman, and one that you choose to be with, rather than just settling for someone because you “can’t get anyone better.” Really understand what I’m saying here. I’m not against you here, I’m really trying to help you.
Let me ask you this. Would you like to start enjoying your life? Would you like to live without anxiety, knowing that you can be friends with who you want, and date who you want. I can guess the first thought in your head: “no shit I would want that if it was possible, but I’m ugly so it’s never going to happen.” But REALLY THINK about that question. ASSUMING it was possible, would you want that social freedom? Would you like to be happy?
If you keep doing the same thing you’ve always done, you’ll keep getting the same results you’ve always gotten.
Your life is your hands. Your move.
Yeah… Didn’t see that coming.
I, for one, completely didn’t see that. Please, O Virginous One, regale me with all of the wisdom from your vast experiences with women.
What a tool.
Seems like the “friend” he’s been talking about all along is really him just like Steve mentioned.
I almost never bother to read, let alone respond to threads like this. However the shear volume of hits was too intriguing to ignore.
What I was expecting was lolz fest where the shear level of ignorance at the very least would provide momentary entertainment.
Unfortunately your lever of underlying self loathing melancholy has robbed me of that possibility.
Because I truly feel this so called “flame war” of yours is really just projected anger and a cry for help, I’m going to give you the opportunity of perspective.
First of all, notice how members of this forum are actually taking the time to respond to you?
That’s because underneath it all we can all relate to the desire for self improvement.
Sure some of us are better looking then others, that’s a give in. The secret is in a way that sometimes works against you.
How?
Well women at times convince themselves that what appears too good to be true, is.
In other instances you can be so desirable in their eyes (looks, personality, etc) that you leapfrog being “Mr. right now” to someone with long term potential and thus have to “work for it”.
My point is that looks aren’t everything and at times can be a double edged sword, if you can’t realize that then no amount of plastic surgery will help you with the underlying issues that need addressing and you’ll always feel undesirable.
So instead of even trying to argue with you I’ll just close with three lines of advice:
- Never be friends with, listen to, or hang around people who make you feel less then.
- Find a place (virtual or otherwise) where your center of confidence can be nurtured.
- Never prejudge anything that’s willing to back up its claims and cost you nothing. I.E as has been stated before this place has a money back guarantee and $25 just for an simple introduction. In other words it’s virtually free, unlike thousands of dollars worth of cosmetic surgery.
Lastly if you do change your mind and decide to join us, be skeptical all you want but please leave the antipathy in your subconscious.
That will be all from me on this topic, I sincerely hope you become well.
I hope not. That would mean he’s sad and predictable.
Oh, the disillusionment.
Yes, definitely. Looks play a major role in attraction.
A major role. Not the only one. Looks are the first element which brings a desire to approach someone when one is free to. Looks are the main element in liking somebody, for we live in a world which is mainly and firstly visual.
Now think about this :
there are two girls at a bar, one incredibly beautiful and one which has not been grated by nature.
The beauty is giving you envy. You make contact and discover that she’s beautiful but not very clever. I’m sure there’s a word in English for this. apart from “a blond”. and she keeps talking about herself, her best female friend and her chihuahua.
The other girl could be a bit shy, but keeps smiling timidly, and talking with her, you discover that she’s fond of interesting hobbies, that she likes people (in spite of what they might say about her visual aspect).
Which one would you rather spend the night with ?
Which one would you like to meet again and again ?
Which one would you spend more time with ?
Don’t think as a PUA. Many PUAs are PUAs for their ego. To get revenge from their past or just because their only passion is sex with as many girls as possible. “Real” PUAs will flirt, seduce. Don Juan was a seducer, not a fucker. Many PUAs have techniques that they apply at the moment they were taught to. Naturals don’t think about what they will do, they will think again about what they did.
Now, as for looks, I recently discovered that people remember that I smell incredibly good. Looks change every day. Of course, you keep your general look. But so few people can tell how someone in particular was dressed on a particular day. We see so many things in a day’s time.
But we remember how someone smells. Not what, but how. Every other day I’m told I smell good. A coworker told me I always look and smell incredibly good.
Final point : subjectivity, yin and Yang.
What were your answers to the three questions above ?
I can guess, but not everyone will answer the same. Cause we don’t all have the same tastes.
Some will just spend time with the silly blond beauty cos they just look for sex and a good image like “oh look at this man, his wife is attractive, he must be good to live with” and he looks for sex and that’s all.
Some will spend time with the other girl cos they will enjoy her conversation, her personality, and they will end up literally SEEING her more beautiful. she won’t have changed. The look the people have on her will change.
that’s inner beauty.
Whatever you like, whatever exists has both sides, good and bad. You just react in a positive or negative way, according to your beliefs. Or you decide to see this particular positive or negative way about someone or something.
the looks can and will influence you. but the next step is to see what you get later, on a long-term basis.
If you want to.
It’s just freedom.
You see ugliness in your friend. Some will see beauty as they will discover his good side. Or think “hey this guy is not one more playboy, he’s not going to use me just for sex and reject me then”
It’s just observing and learn, to not react in the same way as everyone has been taught to, but to react in the way you have learnt to.
But yes, looks are the first impression we give.
I wish I had been as socially clever as you when I was 19.
It rings the bell of childhood and teen years for me. Adult age for many.
When we had a problem communicating because we didn’t respond to society’s clichés on beauty and confidence, because we didn’t look beautiful according to these clichés. When we started thinking about :
What prevents me from being happy ? What prevents me from being more beautiful ? what prevents me from making friends ?
What do I precisely want ? or want to be ?
Usual question raised in teen years, or adult years for some.
When you already are “beautiful”, you don’t raise these questions. you don’t think. And you let yourself go, you don’t change. You don’t improve.
Today, I know that girls like me and would like to have me in their bed, or just hug me or spend time with me.
When I was a teen they didn’t. Apart from one who saw gentleness more than absence of typical beauty.
I met the top 3 boys from highschool a few months ago.
One is incredibly fat and rude.
Another one is quite fat and macho.
the other one looks older than his age in a negative way and has got thick glasses, he’s got a wife and is quite macho with her.
Mabe they all are happy this way. They haven’t changed, haven’t asked themselves question, haven’t got interest in others. They haven’t thought about life. To them, it’s just like this, their way, and they don’t even have a clue that it could be different from their point of view.
“their map of the world is the world”, according to their point of view.
I forgot to talk about my other friend. A former geek. Socially unaware. He was a virgin till the age of 25.
He has learnt to observe and accepted to change his point of view on many things. He has become more attractive though he hasn’t changed his looks. He’s not socially very intelligent, but he has learnt yo raise questions and see the world another way, he has learnt to break what we all have been programmed to think and to react to.
His girlfriend is a wonder. she’s not wonderful, but so nice to spend time with, so smily, so clever, socially intelligent, he’s very lucky. But she’s not beautiful and many guys didn’t even date her cos they didn’t like her looks.
they missed something great.
he didn’t.
MHarris wrote:
In modern Western culture, yes. However I recently read an article - can’t remember where, New Scientist magazine? - about a study of “primitive” cultures showing that height was NOT more attractive to women in those societies, there was no correlation between height and attraction for women. So that just may be a cultural thing.