When will you guys realize that LOOKS are almost all that matters!?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
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Here’s some surprisingly odd hookups if you take only surface level “looks” into account:

Oprah Winfrey’s last husband. One of the richest and most powerful ladies in the world picked a man who was simply no cuter than a typical lawyer or accountant.

Scarlett’s Johannson’s choice of husband. Funnier than cute. They obviously have a good time together. A good rapport.

While not ugly, he’s probably mid-level in terms of looks. Obviously he has gotten fit for certain movies, but that’s something you can control. This lady had so much buzz, she could’ve had anybody. Keep that in mind.

Even though he’d be a decent looking guy in a local neighborhood, he’s probably probably on the “ugly” end of the spectrum compared to the pinnacle of human beauty she had access to at the time. She was truly an international superstar at the time of her courting.

Helen Hunt. Men were in love with her for years, yet you probably would’ve been disappointed if you had seen her at a strip club. She was sort of a fantasy version of normal. Someone people could really see themselves with in a realistic sense. Maybe realism has a thing or two to do with attraction.

Any guy in a band. Men in bands tend to get an abnormal amount of female affection, irregardless of both what they actually look like and how well they did with women before they were in bands. There’s a very strong halo effect attached to certain activities.

Fabio. He may have “cute” once, but he sure as hell isn’t now. He looks sort of like a biker with a very feminine hairstyle. I saw him in the line at Bristol Farms, up the street from our LA office, and nobody seemed to know who he was except the checkout guy who wouldn’t stop talking about him. His reputation obviously preceded him.

I actually have a business advisor who’s about the same age as Fabio, and looks just about the same as he does now. If one had better genes to start with, yet Fabio had both more money and better beauty advisors to cultivate those genes, then why did they both end looking just about the same? Maybe “flowers bloom” on different schedules.

A lot of “cute” people, too… you gotta realize they just make the best of their looks.

While many certainly aren’t “ugly”, not all celebs know how to “look their best” when their “team” isn’t around.

Clipmark

In many cases, it’s how they style themselves that matters more than their genes.

You’d be surprised how much better you look if you go to a good hair stylist, tailor your clothes to fit you (doesn’t matter if you buy the original new or used, they all look better tailored). Maybe get your eyebrows trimmed if they’re out of whack.

Long term, eating better and just generally taking care of yourself does wonders.

Your fate is much more in your hands than it isn’t.

Think of children born with cleft lips, a horrible disfigurement in terms of it’s impact socially. They have a little surgery done, often donated to them by people who really care (at something like $250 per surgery), and then they’re fine. As beautiful to the eye as anybody else. smiletrain.org

There’s amazing leverage in even the smallest, but well considered actions. Actions you or anybody can take, even now. Small hinges move big doors.

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Social intelligence… wow. Now that really has a lot to do with everything, doesn’t it?

Actually, that’s funny… there’s actually a book called “Social Intelligence” that we gave away with 50 orders or something. I figured it would help people on this forum tremendously.

I think we got another 40 or so CD sets in at some point. Wonder if those have been given away yet…

She sounds a lot like the fictional character “Liz Lemon” from “30 Rock”, who I actually think is pretty beautiful due to the way Tina Fey animates her (who, btw, apparently has a very real scar on her face).

Beyond a short term fling, personality means more than almost anything else. It’s the engine inside that counts. (speaking of engines – most women prefer Volvos or other safe cars over Mustangs, btw, something that most men are certainly not socially intelligent to understand! This simply fact blows by most so-called PUAs who can’t get out of their “guy think” enough to enter into a woman’s reality)

Also, if you you redid the way she dressed and changed her hair a little bit, she’d look “beautiful” to far more people on a surface level, as well. That’s a styling issue, a preference for a certain aesthetic. She wouldn’t need to change her aesthetic for anyone, depending on her audience. There’s some people who prefer the way she is over something else, something more “popular”.

Just like there’s “niche” products for certain people, there’s “niche” looks that appeal to just a small segment of people, too.

Most people are born physically beautiful enough to do almost anything they want. It’s really up to most of us to treat ourselves the right way, style ourselves right, work on our personalities and speaking abilities… and even, you know, smelling right.

164

Heh… I bought my Jeep for it’s potential as a chick magnet (It’s a wrangler/YJ)

Turned out it was a dude magnet - Girls just complain about needing help to get inside, guys constantly want to talk about it.

I still love my Jeep :stuck_out_tongue:

Advanced you still haven’t bothered to explain how pheros can possibly have a placebo effect based on your argument that looks are what matter and confidence is essentially a non-issue

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The Boston Phoenix covers this very topic.

100 Unsexiest Men > Boston Phoenix > Rush Limbaugh, Chris Brown, Bernie Madoff, Alex Rodriguez, Rod Blagojevich, Adam Lambert, Jim Cramer, Christian Bale

These guys somehow do fine with the ladies.

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A very good set of posts!

I think a fairly large chunk of the people who seek out good looks at the expense of inner qualites and beyond and above the appearance as an evidence of health and fertility, usually are trying to prove something to others. It is more about having a trophy to show “the other people” that they are worthy that about having a partner attractive to oneself, enjoyable to spend time with, trustworthy and admirable. When one puts the need for approval above the desire for pleasure, one lives for others first and foremost. And at that, a rather impersonal set of others that one seeks to impress. Very sad.

It is much healthier to accept yourself, gain approval from yourself and work on yourself until you get to the point where you are certain of being a person worth admiring and appreciating. The result is twofold: You get much more praise from others, and now for your permanent inner qualities and you feel much less need to receive praise because you start from a point of self acceptance, not a point of self esteem. Self esteem can be raised of lowered by validation from others, self acceptance needs nothing from others.

The person who accepts himself (or herself) does not need to compromise on important things to acquire trophies and status symbols to prove his worth. He is much less likely to be a compulsive consumer of things that bring him very little pleasure, but cost him much to meet his status symbol needs.

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Well, Jeeps are a heck of a lot of fun! :slight_smile:

Context matters with things like those. Where are you?

I can’t imagine that being a bad thing in a place like Colorado, or near the Canadian Rockies, either. Mountain girls seem to like the Indiana Jones type man.

Beach areas would probably be fun in a jeep, too. You don’t fail to see women in jeeps in places like San Diego, whereas a Boston woman definitely wants something different.

For daily drives, it seems women tend to like safety, and even elegance, if they can afford it (or if they’re with a man who can afford it)

That’s why it cracks me up when all of the PUA boards talk about this really rare Nissan… what is it… The Skyline. I’m not talking about the new version I’m seeing come up on Google now, I’m talking about the old one that comes up on PUA boards. If men are capable of anything when it comes to women, it’s self-delusion. (we either assume women don’t like us, or they all do, or that we’re perfect, or we’re totally imperfect; all exremes, but we most of us never seem to be able to tune into actual “reality” of the matter without some extreme effort – accurate perception does not seem to be part of the “standard package” we guys get “out of the shop”)

Honestly, the only Nissan I’ve ever seen women actually go crazy over was actually a station wagon that talked. They also seem to like practical choices like the Maxima and Ultima, which are fast, but also very practical. Yes, I’m sure younger women might go for the Z, too, of course… but that’s only during a very small segment of their lives.

While women aren’t completely practical, they’re a LOT more practical than most of us men. Something it seems that most us guys won’t even entertain. We’re too much into our magic tricks, whereas it’s something more substantial and rounded that most women crave long term.

“Safe danger” is what most women like, when it comes to “excitement”. They like excitement like anyone else, but they have a mothering instinct, too. Excitement in a base of safety is one of several almost perfect ways to describe what gets 'em going.

The same thing they look for in men is the same thing they want in a car, really. That’s why A314 works so well for attracting high quality women for long term relationships. It has an ideal-ness to it that many women find appealing in a partner. That’s if you use A314 for a “short term” relationship, you’re in deep doggy doo doo. You’d think one thing about it (oooh, “fun”), while they think another (“oooh, MINE!”).

Probably the epitomy of a car that would satisfy both a man’s need for nearly wreckless excitement, and woman’s need for both safety and excitement is a Volvo V70R – a race Volvo. :slight_smile: A truly ideal car for me (you can hail items, and haul ass!). I recently found out when trying to buy one (you can’t get them new anymore, so research is required) that Sir Richard Branson actually had one of these in something like '04. He’s truly an A314 type guy, too.

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Some loose ends:

  • Heaght matters some, and I do think some of it is biological. Very short people often have a problem of sickness or poor nutrition early in childhood. For the rest, it is about feeling a man could protect you. I have a friend who is a bit taller than her boyfriend, but he fended off all her bullies in highschool.

  • Women see a car and see if it looks fairly safe, comfortable and well maintained.

  • Women with big boobs do not always need a breast reduction, most just need a good bra. Breast reduction is a very serious and risky surgery and it is really tragic that most women over an E cup are goaded into getting one just so shops can sell crappy bras. Especially in the US.

  • Men approach women, trying to get things going the other way around is swimming upstream. For a girl to yes yes to “Will you see a film with my next saturday?”, it does not take exceptional looks. The normal, healthy man attracts somewhat, and this somewhat is enough if he plays the masculine role. Women do the extra grooming to add some extra glamour to somewhat and women generally enjoy this feminine role. If a guy is shy but very flashy looking, he may find women approaching, however, this is masculine women who enjoy playing the man’s role engaging a guy who enjoys playing the woman’s role, not the standard situation. If you overdo it, you stop attracting even masculine women and start becoming a magnet for other men.

169

In my opinion if working out is REQUIRED to maintain your posture - your breasts are too large and a reduction is a viable option to help prevent poor posture (which can lead to a host of other health issues)

But I’m talking about skinny girls with huge breasts… if you’re overweight than I would argue that you need to lose the extra weight before looking into breast reductions…in my experience, everytime my girlfriends have gained more than 20 lbs they have gained at least 1.5 cup sizes (all of my longterm LTR’s have had significant (20+ lbs) weight gain… I think it has to do with my eating habits)

Yeh the Jeep is fun but in Winnipeg there aren’t as many romantic qualities
It’s flat, bloodly cold in the winter, bloody hot in the summer and always super windy

Mostly my Jeep goes mudding rather than off-roading.

Advanced - you use being blown out by women in the first couple seconds of meeting them as evidence for the fact that looks are the sole contributor to attraction. How do you approach those women? Do you approach with confidence, good posture, positive thoughts and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) the expectation of success? I didn’t think so. When you approach women you are most likely approaching in a reserved manner, thinking about how she is going to blow you out and what a bitch she is for being shallow and not giving you the chance to show how good a guy you are. Every step you take towards her you get more angry at her for being such a bitch and by the time you reach her you are a seething ball of negative energy.

Guess what, just like desperation stinks, expectation of failure stinks just as bad. The women you approach recoil instantly because your vibe is so enormously negative.

We have all had that feeling where we knew something wasn’t right, that something bad is going to occur before it actually occurred. Well it happens when you talk to a person as well - I have a distinct memory in my head of meeting a buddies new girl for the first time, literally within seconds of meeting her I knew she was bad news (He broke up with her when he caught her taking his used condom out of HIS washroom trash bin - I barely believed that girls did that sort of shit before this, but I still had a bad feeling about her). I should note that this girl was HOT, like holy shit hot and I still would have walked away if she came on to me at the club because she had this vibe to her that screamed “I’m desperate”

Before you say that obviously looks matter because my buddy ignored her crazy because she was hot - my buddy had a problem with being attracted to desperate women… he even admits it - the more crazy a chick is, the more likely he is to not realize it. It has come to the point where he essentially brings any girl he has more than two dates with around to us (his friends) and will dump a girl on the spot if we tell him to.

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Fending off the bullies is certainly a display of the type of biological efficacy that a typical woman definitely wants to see in a man.

Height is basically what people like Malcom Gladwell call a “thin slice”. It’s a quick differentiator, or pre-qualifier, with an emphasis on quick. It’s a one second way to size you up, and nothing more.

It does not tell the whole story, to people who are exposed to and willing to listen to the whole story.

I’d actually theorize that women (or anybody) more willing to look beyond thin slices, to more complete cues/deep data pools, would make far better partners.

In fact, I’m guessing the couple you mention here actually has a better relationship than some others you’ve seen that were based on “thin slices” of data, yes?

For more on thin slicing, btw:

gladwell dot com - blink
Why “Blink” Matters: The Power of First Impressions
What is Thin-Slicing?

We’ve given away tons of this book previously with others. It’s good stuff (and it’s a highly relevant way to understand the importance of certain pheromones, as well as other cues that people use “perhaps unfairly” to size you up within seconds)

That’s exactly right. Spot on!

It’s unusual for a man to know that, and uh… I see now, you’re not a man. That just might have something to do with your remarkable powers of perception. :wink:

Yes, indeed, he has to play the masculine role. Or someone has to. Occasionally women will, and they’ll find themselves with men who take the complementary role.

It is sort of sad to see, though, how many men figure they must adopt a woman’s mating strategies. Like, i.e., trying to prance around women, making themselves “available” but without actually initiating.

That can work against them. Men don’t get pregnant. There’s biological costs to sex that men don’t have. For example, they don’t have to worry about long term consequences like women do.

Therefore, there’s only so much cross gender behavior there can be before the psychological interplay breaks with basic biological needs.

There are basically certain behaviors a mating women definitely must see in a potential sperm donor or life partner. There are qualifications that are met (and displayed) exclusively with overt behaviors. Heterosexual men seeking healthy heterosexual women should approach and display a certain degree of strength and control over situations.

That’s in heterosexual couples, mind you. If you’re not mating, not a “breeder” – i.e., if there’s no chance of pregnancy – you can pretty much make up your own rules. You have a lot more freedom, in a sense.

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I have a 32 band size with what most would consider a “huge” cupsize and have a normal body with good posture, because I always wear good bras. If you wear a good bra, the band and cups offer 90% of the support and the straps over the shoulder are just extra. That way, there is no pressure on the shoulders. When girls wear a crappy bra or the wrong size, the shoulders carry 90% of the weight of the breasts and they get saggy prematurely, which aggravates discomfort. 80% of women wearing the wrong size is far more of an influence on back and shoulder pain than a womanly build.

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I think people who judge others on surface chracteristics and then stop the assesment process, the getting to know eachother period, don’t ever really get to know each other and are mainly projecting their expectations.

For example, if a girl was dating a guy who was tall and had a safe car and expected him to be protective, she might get dissapointed. If she observed his behaviour and noticed he went out of his way to protect her a few times, then that would be far more solid ground to base that expectation on. Plus, she would be more relaxed because the requirement was fulfilled up front.

I don’t really have friends who use the thin slice method, but the relationship of my friend is good.

I think some people are in too much of a hurry to get laid and/or to be in a relationship. Once two people are romantically or sexually involved, they close an eye, you cannot assess and be comitted at the same time. The dating time is an essential process that lays the foundation of a good relationship. When you are neither committed, nor sexually involved you have the freedom to see the person’s behaviour for what it is and get to know the character. Once you have done that, you have a real reason to trust that person and commit and you can also have a satisfying sexual relationship because of the deep trust and honest love you feel..

I agree. Only the most masculine women approach and only the prettiest men get approached on a regular basis. This also sets the stage for reversed roles while dating, during the romance, into the marriage. The woman who initiated the first date is more likely to make the decisions about where to go and to foot the bill or part of it. Then the man has to show appreciation and be good company. The woman has proven to be agressive and a good provider, the man has shown himself to be pretty, understanding and appreciative. That is great if the man wants to stay home and change diapers, but most do not and then it turns into a “bait and switch”. Iff the man then wants to make decisions, the woman will not trust him because she never saw him make them early on when it did not matter.

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My LTR has a tendency to take her thin-slice reactions to people as absolute truths… I find it enormously frustrating.

Butterfly - Admittedly I’m speaking from a viewpoint which does not take into consideration the quality of bra a girl is wearing - I have just consistently seen small enough with large breasts having significant posture issues.

If the proper bra can stop those issues then I agree that breast reduction becomes a cosmetic issue and not a health issue.

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Even if some do view him as an “idiot”, I think Advanced here has generated some awfully good conversation in response.

For me, anyway, responding to him (and to others responding to him) is like a good cup of coffee. It helps clear the cobwebs. I know it’s easy to jump on a “troll”, but I definitely appreciate him for that.

Maybe some mild trolling is something like a vaccine. A drop of poison that elicits a very positive response by the body.

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Not to be ridiculous at all (considering who’s asking), but what you consider to be a “good bra”? Brands and design?

I see you have some good inside knowledge here, and would love to share that with my lady friends, if you don’t mind. I think something like 70% or so of my friends are women, yet I don’t we’ve ever had a good bra talk. hehe. I love to pass on good knowledge when I can, but anything involving bras is one thing I’ve never been able to help anyone with thus far.

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I consider a good bra a front clasp there by negating me from dealing with it, as well as dispensing with the typical de-rating of a frontal clasp easy swift removal mark on the rating system…

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Here is a fit guide, you can see good and bad fit and how painful bad fit can look:
Bravissimo | Big Bras, Lingerie, Swimwear and Clothing for D-KK cup women

Here are a few good bras from the same site:

What is best for a particular woman depends on her shape and size. In any case look for something that does not have stretch in the cup, a well engineered cut and good quality fabric.

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I have not read this thread at all…just looked at the last post and see hot women in bras…you just made my day after this horrible week I have been having at work…

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Sorry to hear about your bad week with work denec, I hope things get better for you.

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i need to go out and get drunk! is what i need LOL

Good thng is my nice big order of pheros is coming tomorrow including 50mcg of TAA which I have not had in a real long time so maybe will help things around here

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Definitely, I’m sure it’ll help with making you feel a tad bit better. :slight_smile: