So I’ve been advised to read mens’ journals and ask them for advice on my novitiate dating skills, but there are so MANY. I searched the womens threads for the term, but nothing came up. I don’t want to go blindly, as I’m sure I will cross the “screw everything” type and (I know I’m sensitive) but they just irk me.
So I’m asking you ladies, and kind gentlemen that post advice here, are there ones you would suggest as a starting point?
Thanks!
I haven’t been keeping up-to-date with the journals. I rarely venture into that section and the ones I would recommend are written by some of the veterans who left long ago. ‘Dead’ men tell no tales.
So I say, ‘To Hell with the journals. What’s the question?’ 
Musk
Hi Musk,
The question is me. I described great detail in my Intro: Science Student -- need I say more?
The short story is, I’m ADD, oblivious, literal and yet adept with wordplay. I grew up as a nerd, a tomboy, the tallest in my class until 8th grade, the smartest in my high-school when I was in 8th grade, a C-cup at 11, and all this culminates in my being afraid a guy will only want me for sex and then leave, and I won’t be able to see any of the signals. (I am recovering from growing up under the impression that guys didn’t like tall, funny, bright, active, not fussy with makeup and dieting (I don’t need either), overly-busty (F now, but proportionate), and not recognizing or willing to play games.)
I’ve never (to my knowledge) been hit on by a guy who wasn’t drunk, homeless, or crazy. (It is NOT a compliment if you have no standards.) I’ve never been offered or asked for a number. I had not had even the kindergarten-hand-holding relationship or anything before I was 18 and a junior in college.
I had never been on a “date” in my life before August, so I started on an online dating site, and have been on about 100 first dates in 10 months. I have learned immensely in that time, and am now able to filter out more of those seeking “casual” before meeting. However, I have been on less than 10 second dates, and 3 went to 3-4. (I had “fallen” into a very few relationships with acquaintances without actually “dating,” each time thinking that was my only “option.”)
There is some change I think between all the online and voice chatting and meeting in person. The witty banter and the guy just disappear. I get a lot of “you’re too amazing,” and “I don’t see long-term potential.” Mind you, this is after hours of happy, laughing conversation, often with ordering more drinks, after food is gone, or even moving on to other venue(s). I’m not sure I’ve ever had a bad date.
So, not the shortest story after all. I’m better, but still oblivious enough that the only ‘sign’ I’ll recognize is if you hit me with a billboard.
Thanks!
Are you open minded enough to join a church group and hang out there and make friends? It seems to be that what you are looking for is guys that will start out as your best friend and then some day marry you. The easiest place to find one is in a traditional conservative church.
No, YDSB. She’s just looking for guys who also see other possibility of moving their contacts forward than either casual sex straight away or “you’re too amazing for me” and disappearing. Like, you know, normal dating, when people do have sex (unlike conservative church groups members) after few dates, when they know that they’re fond of each other etc. I can see a fire in those eyes and mischievous smile, she’s not looking to marry a “best pal” just so she doesn’t die alone one day. She knows exactly what women need men for 
Heh. I’m not religious at ALL, and I really go for the undercover nerd. The active, at-least-somewhat-social science- or computer-geek (not the just-gamer kind). They tend to be not religious either.
I’m not hoping for that path, just want someone who wants to spend time having ridiculous fun outside the bedroom, too!
Look for the journals that have a lot of posts. These are the guys that have been around here a long time and have been diligent with testing and reporting. Even if you don’t like their style or attitude, try to keep reading, because you will learn regardless. A few to start with might be P51Mustang, Steve, catlord17, tacitus, thegentleman, and jessejester. There are plenty of other great journals out there and I don’t mean to leave out anyone who has worked hard or hasn’t made contributions, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind.
(tacitus does not appear to exist.)
Thanks for your humble advice (not suggesting yourself). 
Here is my two cents. These are just based on my experiences and in no way could be typical in terms of a general norm of any sorts. However, I’ve been friends with a various amount of different personality types, different looks, and different ethnic/cultural backgrounds. From my experiences this is what I think is going on.
Seems like you have enough of the attractive qualities that men like, but just know that not everyone will be attracted to the physical qualities that you described.
The first thing is that you have that limiting belief about you in terms of what your impressions are of what guys want. When you watch the media and read all over magazines and the net, you rightly so will think that there are these things that are pertinent to what you are believing. However, in reality, what is not mainsteam, you find couples (a lot more than you think) who are very happy, and have had different beliefs about what men and women want out of a relationship.
Letting your physical (from your description) characteristics lead the way in your interactions will make you think automatically that when someone is hitting on you, it isn’t a compliment. For the most part, with drunk guys, it is an expression of their primal desires (you’ve already been found to be physically attractive to a guy) and maybe your height, or your larger than normal breasts intimidate them. It could be that if they found your natural beauty to be overwhelming, they won’t say anything outright until they are drunk.
But you’re right, some guys will just use women for outright sex, some will want them for something more, and some will want to take it into a committed relationship. However, shutting them down at first is not going to get you anywhere because of the bias’ you already hold. In my opinion, you don’t want to be “that girl” and potentially get hurt. My thing is, can’t dance if you don’t get on the floor, you can’t sing if you don’t open your mouth, you can’t move if you don’t take the first step, and you can’t find love if you don’t open your heart. Yeah, it sucks to get hurt, but it sucks even more living life being too skeptical of others and being too guarded.
In terms of looking for signs.
There are many out there. If he’s making an effort to text you, come see you, and OVERLY tries to play it cool, then he’s probably interested. Being drunk does really help bring out if he’s attracted to you in the least bit. If all else fails. Tell him you like him, and if he acts he does, and if he doesn’t he doesn’t. You have nothing to lose in that respect.
I also think you have some sort of a confidence issue in that regards. But let me tell you. I am friends with some of the hottest women around this area. I’ve dated/hook up with some of the prettier ones here too, the ones everyone hits on, and I can say, that they almost have the same problem as you. Always wondering if they’re getting used, always wondering what this guy is thinking, if they like her or not. Only difference really is, they don’t let their limiting beliefs hold them back as much as my other female friends who, like you, have had a string of problems with finding a relationship, even though the “checklist” all checks out as a great woman.
The biggest difference I’ve found amongst the girls that get a lot of guys, and the girls who don’t, are confidence. Even though they all share the same doubts, the girls who have trouble, express it in their body language, the ones who do have confidence give a playful and flirty vibe. Even if they’re feeling it, they create sexual tension and excitement with the guys that keep them guessing and interested. I’ve had a couple of times that I’ve been so intimidate by this girl, and I got to know her and nothing ever came of it, but when things finally spilled out, I found out she was intimidated by me as well. Yes it was my job as the guy to take that risk and say something, but I didn’t, and we both missed out on a great opportunity. I’m not trying to change the rules, but I strongly believe you make the changes and create the opportunities if you want them bad enough.
Best of luck
Hm. I assumed he had a journal but it looks like he doesn’t. Just search for threads by him instead. He was quite the experimenter, if just a tad eccentric.
Ah, but what if my presumed humility was simply a calculated gesture to raise your opinion of me, and one which I viewed as a sign of my own cleverness, what then?
If this is true, the world is much stranger than I imagined, and perhaps hopeless. In order to render your above statement false in the future, I present you with this solitary 3. You’ll have to work for the rest. 
Thank you!
I am learning this / aware of it; it’s just hard to tell which ones do, and doubly difficult if I do not find them attractive.
Ironically, I grew up without a TV, haven’t had cable in 18 months, (and I have adblocker on my computer), and I assiduously avoid tabloid/popular magazines that I know distort society’s perception of reality. I still picked up on some of that “crap”
I am learning this, thanks to the many kind gentlemen on that dating site.
I don’t actually let them lead the way–I dress rather modestly (not hiding my cleavage, but not revealing it all the way to my navel, either) in a modern-twist on 40s/50s styles, as that suits my shape best.
Mostly I think I’m just oblivious I haven’t noticed anyone who wasn’t falling-down drunk (I didn’t mean just a little tipsy), or otherwise chemically altered, neuro- or synthetic. It’s different on this dating site – it’s a bit easier since I know we’re looking for “dating,” it’s just a matter of me figuring out what that means to the other person. 
I’m trying to fight this, but it’s slow since I find nothing on how to change my perceptions. I’m not looking to “shut them down,” just slow them down. There seems to a lot of “first date nookie” expected, and since I “hit it off” to some degree with almost everyone I meet – I don’t want to sleep with that many people!
Actually I think my confidence is pretty good; I mostly shy and confused. I did recently realize, “Why do I care, if it’s likely I won’t see this guy again?” I think I’m playful and flirty, but I’m sure it’s less so in person than it was in text, and I have the damnedest time breaking the touch barrier, but I wonder why guy’s don’t do their half – why do they get to be suddenly shy in person, and I don’t. =/
Anyway, thanks for your advice, and I will try and work on it, but unless I have specific idea, the general “be braver” just overwhelms me mentally (like, I need to know how).
Well I guess I’m just completely wrong then and should have kept my mouth shut. 
Anyway, What do you mean by “an undercover nerd”?
swoons A, a, a number! … hey, wait a minute, what’s the rest of the equation?
I once wrote down this T-shirt slogan for a fellow (male) math nerd, after there had been much flirting, touching, and smooching, mind you…
∫e^x = f (u^n)
and he proceeded to attempt to solve it! 
(It is complete mathematical blarney, by the way, and as such, unsolvable nonsense.)
You know, not the unwashed, over-weight, neck-beard, junkfood-ivore, DnD-geek stereotype. The ones who like to go outside, do active sports and such, as well as like to hang out with other people around a grill, with family or at a restaurant (food + beer or wine + laughter and fun).
For that matter, only once has a guy offered to buy me a drink. He was so plastered that when I explained I was only getting two waters, he still handed the bartender $20. I think the barkeep kept it too.
Despite the age difference, I suspect you and I would make good pals, gf.
LOVE the integral equation. Gotta remember that, or maybe get some t-shirt friends of mine to make it up.
Myself, I found a geek who is an artist, and I’ve been happily married to him for awhile now. You might try looking a little outside your field. You might try going to an SF con and hanging with the panelists. You might try BECOMING a panelist.
Just some ideas.
btw: are you using the f() as “function” or simply as “multiplier”?
In many ways I have always been older than my age; understandingly responsibilities and considering my effects on others cautions me – partly I don’t want to hurt the guys, either, so I want some time to get to know if I want to, ahem, “date” them.
Function. http://www.snorgtees.com/sex-equation
I have been thinking I need to go to more conventions. I am trying to branch out – physics, chemistry, math, medicine, computers, and related fields, just not my department. Experience with said fields, more than currently working in them. I am a bit odd – nerdy-dirty-flirty jokes are HOT.
“I wish I could be your derivative–I’d love to lie tangent to your curves!”
Our Friend tacitus - RIP 12/2010 - A compilation of brilliant and exhilarating posts
Here’s a compilation of tacitus’ works.
Very refreshing read.
Wow, thanks. I had no idea he had died – I merely thought the name had been misspelled.