i don’t think they gave up(if they really had, they would not want anything to do with women)…if anything they became more driven. as far as betrayal..1 or 2 i think. another guys gf went gay and i think another went crazy as in institutionalized or something.
also the fifth guy, the “natural” if you wanna call him that. he’s been with about 35 women, but found this really nice girl last year and been monogamous with her for a lil over a year, then she broke up with him last month, and now he’s back to whoring again…so the whole sluts are sluts thing isn’t as simple as it sounds.
Below is a cautionary tale that has been doing its rounds on the net for the last few years and is food for thought for all you players out there.
Its about a guy who used to enjoy going to Thailand to sleep with as many Hookers he could. The title of this story is called…
I Might Have HIV
I should have known to look at her. The skinny frame, the damaged skin. She didn’t always look like this. I’ve known my Thai girlfriend for 16 months; I spent 6 months living in Thailand in 2007 and on December 28 2007 returned to see her.
We don’t use condoms.
Yesterday we went to hospital, she had an infection. The doctor thought she looked like she had HIV. She was crying, I don’t know what I was thinking. I went and got tested straight away. 1 hour later, the results; Non reactive (negative). Thank god.
30 minutes later she got her results. I was telling her of course she would be ok, if I was ok then she must be too. But she tested positive. I couldn’t believe it. I tested negative but there is an incubation period for HIV- anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months. I’ve been researching the internet, the extract below from the San Francisco aids foundation website seems to explain my situation. Window Period The “window period” is the time it takes for a person who has been infected with HIV to react to the virus by creating HIV antibodies. This is called seroconversion.
*During the window period, people infected with HIV have no antibodies in their blood that can be detected by an HIV test, even though the person may already have high levels of HIV in their blood, sexual fluids, or breast milk. *
Here is what the CDC says about the window period:
“Antibodies generally appear within three months after infection with HIV, but may take up to six months in some persons.”
This CDC definition of a three to six month window period has been commonly used for a number of years.
What does this mean for you?
The three month window period is normal for most of the population. Many people will have detectable antibodies in three or four weeks. Very, very rarely (i.e., only a few cases ever), a person could take six months to produce antibodies.
*You may be anxious to be tested soon after an encounter which you perceive to be risky (for a discussion of what behaviors put you at risk for HIV and which ones do not, see the section on How HIV Is Spread). You want to know: can I be antibody tested without waiting three months? How accurate is the test after, say, six weeks? *
Unfortunately, we simply don’t know.
Think about this: if you got a negative test at six weeks, would you believe it? Would it make you less anxious? If so, then go for it. But to be certain, you will need to be tested again at three months. Some test centers may recommend testing again at six months, just to be extra sure.
Although HIV may not be detected by a test during the window period, HIV can be transmitted during that time. In fact, individuals are often most infectious during this time (shortly after they have been exposed to HIV)
She told me she gave oral sex to a man in Bangkok when I was working back home in New York . From my calculations she must have got HIV in the period between when I left Thailand after 6 months together and when I returned on 28th December. If she had it before then, surely I would have contracted it by now. My emotions? Pity for her, she only found out yesterday. Anger, to what degree was she sleeping around (the chances of getting HIV from oral sex are very very very small)
Anyway – right now this is not about how she got it. This is about my life. I have been felling unwell for the last week. I came down with a bout of food poisoning about a week about but I still feel unwell. Tired, no appetite. Please don’t let me have this disease. I just want to leave Thailand now. I want this to be a bad dream. I’m only 26. Have I ruined my life? Please no. I feel like I am in an airplane; the plane is going down. I’m asking God…please if you get me through this I’ll be a better person.
I think I need to talk to someone. I don’t know how I’ll be able to concentrate on work. How can I think of work. Feel like just want to curl up.
I won’t know for another 3 - 6 months if I have it. What are the chances I have it.
I first had unprotected sex with my girlfriend in May 2007. We stayed together until September 2007, upon which I went to work in back home for 3 months. On 28 December 2007 I returned to Thailand. In the period 28 December to 11 January we maybe had sex maybe 10 times – my girlfriend had developed an infection on her upper leg so that meant we couldn’t have that much sex.
Based on the above, I can arrive at two assumptions. 1 - My girlfriend had HIV at the beginning of our relationship, and I have just somehow not got it. 2 - Or two (more likely), she got HIV during my three month stint in back home, therefore potentially could be in my body now and in an incubation period at the moment – we last had sex on 11 January – I tested on 18 January. But it can take up to 6 months for the antibodies that point to HIV to show up in a blood test.
Where do I go from here? If HIV is in its incubation period is there anything I can do to stop it?
What do I do about my girlfriend; obviously this is a shock to her. Because I am still negative, my feelings of anxiety over having HIV outweigh any anger. If she has fucked around, she has been punished. Obliviously we don’t have a future together and I’ll have to consider when I can walk away.
The next few months are going to be hell. My life has been turned upside down.
You shouldn’t generalize your idea of male development. I myself have never had the urge to seduce some woman I’ve not been attracted to. Why should I? And I know most of my male friends would find that concept rather strange, too…
I agree with you that nothing is ever as simple as it sounds. And no matter what the model people are complex critters.
Sorry if I came across as a little too confrontational and shocking. Sometimes that is the only way to really blast open stereotypes. And that was my only intention.
I absolutely agree with you that there should never be a monogamous person involved with a non-monogamous person. It never fails to produce an enormous amount of senseless pain.
The problem I’ve had in the past is with a certain few guys who are not monogamous telling me that I have to accept that all guys are that way. Well, I never believed it, I chose to not be involved with them and I went on to marry a wonderful monogamous guy.
The other problem I’ve had in the past is watching a certain few female friends believe that they were the “one” that would change their cheating partners, because they were somehow special. In every case the cheating boyfriend lead them on, carrot on a stick, that, yes, maybe they were the one. I’ve stood by as they took the blame for their boyfriends behavior, while the boyfriend blamed them for it. I’ve been there to help pick up the pieces when the illusion bubbles burst finally and the lie was exposed. Just more senseless and devastating pain.
From my perspective in the above incidents the guys were all total shits, selfish, self-absorbed, and uncaring of the shit-piles of misery they left behind. And, frankly, I don’t care what their self-images or self-stories were/are, or what theories they tell themselves and each other and others about why they do what they do, or how they justify their behaviors.
When/if they learn to consider the consequences for their actions on others and take some responsibility to limit the damage they do, then I’m willing to dialog, because at least then they would be on the road to maturity. Until then, they can all just stay out of my life and out of my way.
Diane
I agree with meow333x, actually. You and your friends don’t feel the urge to seduce someone you aren’t attracted to most likely because you have all the prerequisites (think it of as an umbrella term for everything it takes to get a girl) needed to seduce someone you’re attracted to. So if that’s the case, I’m happy for you. But for the rest of us, we gotta resort to other ways of getting sex, which includes going for people we don’t find attractive. (I know someone might say: “be more confident”, “just go out and do it”, or something else highly vague and abstract, but let’s not get off topic here.) And you know what? It’s OK. After all, girls are people, regardless of their looks. As long as you treat the girl with respect and be honest about your intentions (don’t tell her you want a relationship if you just want a one-night stand), it’s all good. In time, you will be able to improve your skills to be able to find a girl you’re attracted to as well.
All this is based in a very simple principle. In order for sex to take place, the girl absolutely must be attracted to the guy. It’s a prerequisite, a requirement, or what mathematicians would call a “necessary condition”. But for guys, it’s oftentimes not an absolute requirement; just a “nice to have” kind of thing (the degree of its strictness varies). As long as the girl is interested, I can have sex with her with or without attraction on my part. (“But how do you get it up?” By the time I have to worry about it, it’s no longer a problem.
) I’m sure I’m not the only guy who can do this.
With all that said, breaking someone’s heart by being dishonest is just wrong. If you’re able to have sex without feeling attraction, enjoy the ability, but don’t use it to hurt people. You’ll make women distrustful of men in general, and in this anti-male society we live in, that’s the last thing you want to do.
I really wish it were that way. But no, I’m not that good of a seducer (and neither are most of the friends I’ve mentioned). I just never had the thought passing my mind to seduce someone I’m not attracted to just to get a little sex. You know, before I rub myself on someone I’m not into I’d rather make use of my vivid imagination (cough LOL). What good would sex with such a person be anyway??
Btw, your point with not ‘getting it up’ - I guess I’d have a massive problem there… 
OK, I guess it’s an individual thing. For me, it was more of a coping strategy. I could either be with someone I’m not attracted to, or not be with a girl at all for a long time. And when a dry spell starts to make the Sahara Desert look like a rainforest, it’s a choice you gotta make. It actually served me pretty well in the long run. Going back to what’s been said earlier, the girl I’ve been with most recently is far more attractive than the girl I lost my virginity to. I have no intentions of dating a model; their personalities are often not that great. But I’m glad I’ve been able to learn some pick-up skills without breaking anyone’s heart in the process.
bubblebob, theattractor, do you guys think that there might be a cultural element to this? bubblebob lives in berlin, which is one of the easiest places to get sex in the world…for about what it costs for a dinner and movie here in the states you can have sex with a gorgeous woman.
theattractor, you and i live in the us..the land of undercover police women posing as prostitues waiting to put people behind bars. or we can jump on a plane and go to nevada and pay a month’s rent for a barely attractive hooker.
also to theattractor, i’m glad you brought this up about coping and surviving dry spells…
diane, you’ve had to pick up pieces of your friends after douchebags left them…i’ve had to listen to horror stories about psychological torture my buddies were going thru because they’ve been single for 2 years
no apology needed
i need to drop a few words on this one…please realize that it was the women’s choice to get in those relationships and it was their choice to stay in them. yes i agree that those men sucked…but the lack of responsibility on women’s parts also shocks me sometimes…as we’ve established in this thread, women are in power of relationships, they are the deciders from start to finish…i’ve been in bad relationships before but i can admit that i picked some shitty ass women and i learned from them. isn’t it time that women learned to take some responsibility for their choices instead of passing the blame? come on now.
this is one of those areas that men accuse women of being hypocritical “i can do whatever i want whenever i want, but if i screw up it’s your fault” uh huh
Are you back to the main topic here (prostitutes) or are you talking about getting a girl for sex generally? If second: Where do you have that infomation from? 
If first: I’m actually not familiar with the… errmm… fees 
here…
The women chose to trust in a dirtbag, yes. They allowed their emotions to cloud their reasoning. And they allowed their guys to dictate their self esteem, lowering it. Victims tend to subconsciously choose their victimizers. The guys consciously took advantage of that.
I don’t agree that women hold all the power in relationships. And I don’t agree they are the deciders from start to finish. That is only true in very few cases where the guy accepts and allows it and the women want it.
My husband and I have a more traditional relationship. He makes all the big decisions with my input, but I don’t buck his authority. I trust him that much. He decided to start this relationship with me. He was the one who decided to pursue courting me. He was the one who decided he wanted to marry me, and he was the one who asked. The only thing that I have demanded and continue to demand is that he be a righteous man.
Diane
My own opinion of course, but I have to agree with bubble. And I can assure you, I do NOT have these “prerequisites” you and meow talk about. Everyone is different. We grew up differently with different social norms, lifestyles, social status, basically EVERYTHING. I have friends who I guess have those “prerequisites” and can pretty much get sex when they want it. I have friends who have NO game, NOTHING, not even a GF at the age of 24, and 99% sure (not 99.999999 etc) that they are still virgins, but I’m 99.9% sure they have never paid for sex.
Reason why I think guys pay for hookers? They’re need a woman or they need someone. That’s the bottom line and thats what it comes down to. Whether it be physical or I’m assuming emotional (I GUESS you could talk to a pro about your day and how it was shitty. I’m sure there are some who wouldn’t mind taking your money to pretend to listen). IMO thats the bottom line. Stop with all the other factors. I am NOT saying those factors, social norms, psychology, sociology are useless, I am a BA in psychology and studied heavily in sociology so I know how important they are. Yes, those things have factors, but those factors do not apply to everyone or all situations (biggest weakness in science is the desire to apply one concept to EVERYONE). When you ask why men love prostitutes, not every man does or employs them. Those that have, may not like it and never come back. Those that continue to do so, there is a NEED for that man that he cannot satisfy elsewhere or he can satisfy but does not find it WORTH IT to do so. That is what it comes down to. I want something. It is easier to obtain that something by paying someone or I find it a hassle, do not have the time, is incovenient, etc, to do it another way.
Prostitution is ultimately a business. There is a need for it and a supply. Whether that NEED is a psychological desire to achieve a fantasy or a physical detterment (wife won’t allow fantasy, don’t have a gf and need some, etc), the REASON is cause there is a NEED. Perhaps you should have asked why men EMPLOY prostitutes.
zeph, you’re stating the obvious here…of course there is a need. and the psychological and sociological factors are what this thread is about.
diane, you hold a traditional relationship…which is waaaaay different than the modern dating world. i’m talkin about what’s goin on today with young adults
It’s interesting that you mentioned emotional needs. Sure, the vast majority of men see hookers to get sexual relief, but what if they had a shitty day and they need a non-judgmental listener to vent to? Think about it: who would a modern-day man be able to talk to if he had a stressful day?
His wife? There’s always a risk she will use the information against him if they have an argument later on. Or she might flat-out ignore the fact that he’s exhausted and demand that he “help around the house”.
His friends? If they’re good friends, they’ll hear him out. But men don’t talk about emotional stuff with each other (and rightfully so), so the help will generally be limited to going for a few beers to take the edge off.
Some overpaid, judgmental shrink who responds with “I see” or “how did that make you feel” to everything a man confides in him? 'Nuff said.
So what option does that leave? Exactly! Few or none. No wonder men choose to go to a prostitute. They can vent about their day, have an orgasm or two, and possibly get a pep talk. (I’m referring to higher-class hookers; you can’t do venting or pep talks in an alley.) There: problem solved. And I know people will jump in and say: “he should talk about the stressful day with his wife”, so let me address that: reread the second paragraph.
And I’m saying that even in today’s modern world with young adult your arguments don’t apply to everyone or even the majority. I have two young adult sons, and one adult, married daughter. All of them are traditional in their outlooks, their desires, and their behaviors. That is their choice, and the choice of the majority of their respective social circles.
Diane
well put. there’s been several articles online about just that…due to the recession, more and more men have been using prostitutes as therapists. i mean hell, hookers have the same hourly rates as psychologists and they do dirty things with you…pretty good bargain.
diane i’m gonna make some assumptions here and u tell me if i’m wrong..i’m gonna first assume that being traditional wasn’t something that randomly happened to you..you didn’t just wake up one day and decide to be traditional…that you came from a certain upbringing. i’m also going to assume that people you associate with also share the same views as you. and i’m also going to assume that you live somewhere that is predominately traditional. which ones am i wrong on?
You are incorrect on many of them, basically… lol.
Living a traditional life, along with all the responsibilities of that (and there are many), was a choice I made after being left to fend for myself and my two small children by an alcoholic, physically and emotionally abusive, cheating husband, and after some long hard looks at myself and what I allowed as acceptable behavior towards me and by me towards others, and accepting the consequences of those past decisions/actions.
On the surface my ex-husband looks good, even today. He holds a position of authority in one of the top 10 firms in the US. In public he comes across as sort of a country gentleman.
He hasn’t attempted to maintain any contact with his kids for many years, even when encouraged to do so by everyone including me, and refuses to talk to them. Even though they have had a new father for years who has invested totally in them and loves them dearly, this still hurts them.
I tried very hard to be a good wife to this man, being as understanding as possible around the pressures he was under. I looked the other way around his affairs and just hoped that somehow he would see the light and stop drinking so much and treating me so horribly. I never turned him away from my bed. I am a sexy attractive woman, but after years of living with his constant belittling, his never being satisfied, his rejection and affairs, and his physical abuse, I had very little self esteem left. I became a doormat, even in my own eyes.
It was my protectiveness and love for my children that got me away from him and into a position where I could see myself more clearly, and where I could finally make the decision that I had a right to expect to be treated well.
My father was a “sun king” charming philanderer and my mother was an alcoholic.
Today, I do hang with more traditional folk, though not exclusively. I still have compassion for friends who make wrong choices and suffer because of it. I don’t try to lead their lives, but I do offer my support and friendship.
I live in a mainly liberal, non-traditional area (Baltimore/DC area).
I have tried to teach my children that honesty, even self honesty is better than lies and illusion; that sometimes the easy way is not the best way; that even if it is hard, doing the right thing is the best thing; that sneaking, stealing, lying, cheating and taking short-cuts only stunts your character and keeps you from learning to be strong; and that it is worthwhile to be upstanding and righteous and a model for your friends. Sometimes our kids think we are strict (we aren’t, but we are balanced) but one thing is certain to them. They know they are loved and that they are worth the effort.
Diane
Yes, I already gave my views on that.
“biggest weakness in science is the desire to apply one concept to EVERYONE”
I think that is also what you’re trying to do. Everyone is going to have a reason for it. Some people might have the EXACT same reason, some will have similar but not exact same reasons, and some will have reasons unique to that person.
For me, if I were to hire a pro, my reason would be because I needed some ass NOW. Literally do my thing and be out pretty much as soon as I was done. Nothing psychological or anything. Just being horny would be my reason.
I have a feeling (with no evidence or facts to back this up) that prostitution will be on the rise. Only because people are so busy these days. Dating has transformed fairly recently with the internet, why won’t would it be different with prostitution? Make it easier, more discrete and you get what you want. Sex w/o the work, the hassle, the game, the whatever you want to call it that gets in your way of getting it.