i agree with you on this…actually i think that 3 countries have legalized prostitution in the last 10 years. interestingly enough some of the hardest punishments come from some of the most liberal nations like sweden. i think that there is a business aspect of it. if men had ready access to affordable hookers, well then why would they go to movies or buy flowers or chocolates or jewelry? the economic consequences i think are great especially in a consumer society. i also think that social norms have something else to do with this…here we go…
oh yah…i know i’m gonna make a huge shallow ass assumption and be a horny pig and an objectifier of women and all that..but this one is for the dudes…
guys, have you noticed how women are getting more and more bitcher in the last 20 years? i mean when i was a kid, girls were so much nicer and no not to me because i was a kid i mean to each other and to men…now it seems that bitchy women are the norm and nice sweet ones are a rarity.
eh, also one of the reason I believe that people continue to put up hot people everywhere. Good for the gyms, dieting plans, dating magazines, rumor columns, dating advice, etc. Everything always involves money. The established like staying established. 
Hallmark and Hershey’s make a lot of money. I didn’t think of it that way for prostitution. Guess society would also have to get over the “morality” of it and I think it’d change a lot of the social dynamics for dating.
you dam straight it would!!! lol
i think the new pickup line would be “how much?”
LOL… I have to point out here that you are 24 years old. When you are as young as you are, everything tends to look like a new trend, and every discovery you make tends to seem like it has never been discovered before.
Maybe the bitchiness you see in women around you has more to do with you than societal trends. Just a thought…
Diane
Yes, but what’s the point if deep down she probably will find you repulsive, not attractive, and basically give you a fake orgasm. That’s uncertainty in itself. The guy probably just doesn’t/won’t know it. So what’s the point really? Unless she really digs her customer attraction wise then that’s a different story.
Attraction has little to do with they way a person looks. Attraction is the way you feel about a person and this is something people don’t get. So ultimately the girls your sleeping with do attract you to some extent or you wouldn’t be able to sleep with them. They may not be “the one” or look like models but there is attraction there.
As Diane pointed out Alpha males are much different. I don’t want to be rude or hurt your or anyone else’s feelings and I have been skirting around this but you didn’t pick up on it. Your a Beta male and its shows even online. Much of what your describing is how most Beta men act and feel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.
I suggest you research Alpha verses Beta in relationships online or you mention reading a lot. Your library or local book store will have a lot about this.
Just keep in mind that being the Alpha has little to do with looks build or money. Alphas sometimes do have that but its because they are Alphas to begin with that they do not the other way around.
I also hold a traditional relationship. Both my husband and I are Alpha in personality but in our relationship I step into the Beta position with no problem. My hubby still looks to me for advice and my opinion but generally he takes the lead. Its why we have been together so long and why it works for us and I cant speak for Diane but I think her relationship probably is similar. No its really not different then modern day relationships in this sense. I have two sons as well and my oldest is Alpha. My youngest… its to soon to say for sure but he shows all the traits of Alpha as well.
I had a great conversation with my family about all this last night which gave me some new insights about this whole things and cleared up some of my own misconceptions. I asked them flat out if he had some of the same problems as your describing here. My 22 year old said was nope because I am Alpha in personality but some of his Beta friends have these problems and attitudes.
I thought about some of his friends and its true. Great kids who spend a lot of time here so I know them well. My son is not the best looking of the bunch but the girls flutter around him even though he has a girlfriend. They don’t play games with him because they know they cant but they don’t treat his friends with the same respect. Even his male friends flutter around him. Its his persona and attitude.
So anyways we got into this big convo about the Alpha — Beta persona and it really is a interesting subject to delve into and I think its useful for today’s men to read up on it and learn about it.
My personal thoughts on it is that being a Alpha is something we learn as we grow up from the adults that surround us. its not something your naturally born with therefore even as a adult it can be learned.
Again this makes me think of the Alpha Beta syndrome. My husband talks to me about his problems and vents to me, not some hooker that will blow smoke up his ass to inflate his ego. He has no fear that I will “use it against him” later on. He’s the Alpha doesn’t worry about those trivial things he can handle it.
Anywhoooo…
So last night I sprayed on 3 sprays of IH 4X , 2 sprays of 50 mcg est. 2 sprays of anol 30 mcg and we all went to dinner at Chili’s.
I asked my “men” at dinner last night if they ever thought about going to a hooker and after they all got done choking and laughing they all said “Hell no” except my 15 year old who asked what she looked like first LOL After I assured them I wasnt testing them and was truly wondering. They said they never would even consider it. I thought maybe it was because they respect women but I was wrong (snort). When I said that they said nope I have to much respect for myself. There is the Alpha in a nutshell. Course my oldest had to chime in and say I have no problem banging a slutty chick though which got him a scathing look from his Girlfriend. We had a great long talk about it and the funny thing is we didn’t realize the people at the table behind us were listening to the whole conversation. I finally noticed and apologized for our dinner conversation and they said…NO NO this is a great convo very interesting. We were sitting in the table section not the booths and they pulled there table up to ours and we made some great new friends LOL
We didnt get much input from there 17 year old daughter because she was to busy flirting with my 15 year old. But there 19 year old son had a lot to say. Great people so I got to thank the guys here for bringing up the subject because if you didn’t I would never have met them. We are doing lunch next week. 
Sorry I got off topic a little, Just had to share LOL
I know this question is for Di but I wanted to add my 2 cents. I was brought up in the “traditional” relationship environment. My father is a Alpha and my mother is also a Alpha. They love and respect each other and no my father doesn’t go to hookers although he did mention when he was in the war he did. Ewwwww LOL My grandparents had a fabulous relationship and while I wouldn’t call them traditional in the same sense you would think of it. (My grandmother is a Pagan witch and my grandfather a shaman) they influenced me tremendously to being open to all other thoughts and attitudes.
Anywhooo I don’t hang around with people who are in traditional relationships. Our friends tend to be all over in this aspect. Some traditional some way way not traditional.
I would agree for me their relationships influenced me in my choices as I got older and they still do to this day.
Excellent point zeph. I think many people are so busy looking for the answers around them they fail to look to where the answers really are which is inside themselves and it will be different for everyone.
Its easy to blame the world around you for you attitudes and problems but ultimately they are yours and its how you feel and the attitude you have that holds you back or lets you grow.
Look at Dianes situation. (again I don’t personally know her) but she had a tough time in her first relationship but she didn’t sit around blaming the world. She looked inside and saw her worth, she channeled her alpha and said I deserve more the this and she found it in her husband now. She could have decided “all men are dirtbags and cant be trusted” or they are only out for one thing. She didn’t generalize and because she didn’t she found a great guy.
Actually if you look at it historically no its not on the up rise and has been declined quite a bit since the eighteen hundreds. I don’t feel that it is rising I feel as more and more women have more choices they don’t have to resort to prostitution.
Some statistics from Prostitution Research & Education Website …
Average age the begin: 14-16 yrs
Percent younger than age 18 when they become prostitutes: 42%
Sexually abused as a child: 65-95%
Diagnosised with PTSD
Canada: 74%
Colombia: 86% its legal here
Germany: 60%
Mexico: 54%
Thailand: 58%
USA: 69%
On drugs or alcoholics
Drugs: 75% Alcohol: 26%
Its not a pretty picture guys.
I think its not that the women are more bitchy men just don’t like them to have a opinion or they consider it bitchiness. This is another Beta trait. They feel threatened by opinionated women.
Come on now admit it… What would be your definition of a sweet women ? One who agrees with everything you say and does what you tell them.
This go’s right back to why men see hookers. They have no opinion at least not while they are working.
Its a illusion and even the hookers are smart enough to know this. Your kidding your self if you think anything different. Its a financial transaction. There is nothing personal about it and I think its a sad cop out to compare it with any other kind of relationship
Tisha
I’ll address the responses you posted here. You’re kind of right about me being attracted to the girls I’ve been with. Whatever it was, something motivated me to call them after the first date. Part of it could have been knowing she’s attracted to me, but still, if I called them back, there was at least some attraction on my part.
If you and your husband have a relationship where you can share problems with each other, I’m happy for you. But given how wives are depicted in every show on mainstream TV, talking about one’s problems with the wife would seem like the most dangerous thing you can do. If anything, you should take the “name, rank, and serial number” approach, and not admit to anything the wife doesn’t already know. Call me a beta male if you want, but I’m only working with the information I’ve been exposed to. I even came up with an expression “using the wife tone” (of voice), which I use among my friends as a joke. I think it’s self-explanatory.
Don’t get me wrong; I know very well that it’s an illusion. I’ve never been with an hooker (or an escort, for that matter), but I’ve had lap dances where you can touch; it’s kind of similar. And I used the opportunity to vent about stressful stuff during the short time the lap dance lasted. Given the harsh reality we all face every day, no wonder people want a little illusion once in a while. And where there’s illusion, there’s suspension of disbelief. The difference is in knowing it’s just an illusion. People who know it can suspend disbelief for a little while, have a great time, and walk away. People who don’t can fall into a trap thinking it’s something genuine.
I noticed you talked a lot about alpha and beta males. It would seem like what defines an alpha male is confidence, like the one from that thread (inside joke). But here’s a philosophical question. If everyone was alpha male, how would we define alpha male?
Well, the fact is that not every male is an alpha male.
The mistake that most beta males make is that they believe if they make their world so that they don’t ever have to face stress or fear of rejection of any kind that alone will make them an alpha male. They use very manipulative techniques to try to accomplish this, along with bullying when their manipulation doesn’t work. They equate alpha with being able to get their way without effort.
Alpha males don’t care if you like them or not - they like themselves. They don’t experience rejection of any kind because they never reject themselves. They never experience anxiety because they believe in their own abilities. They don’t accept defeat, not because everything is easy, but because they have a clearer vision unclouded by fear and anxiety, and are willing to work for what they want.
And because of these things, they never resort to being manipulative. And because they are not manipulative, you can trust that what you see is what you get.
Women can spot an alpha male a mile away. Their body language is completely free of begging for acceptance signals, free of anxiety, and free of fear. An alpha male’s body language is alert and at ease. You can call this confidence if you want, but it is more of a trust in the universe that one’s needs will be met.
I’m a big believer that those things which keeps one from being all they can be can be faced and worked through. Tackling anxiety and fear at its roots, either through some hard soul searching or with the help of a therapist is key, imo, to becoming alpha… that and the commitment to oneself to give up behaviors that keep you from dealing with those issues, like being dishonest or manipulative or bullying.
Diane
ok, i think we really need to get off this alpha beta stuff…it seems that both sides are having misconceptions about what an alpha or beta male is…this really doesn’t have a lot to do with prostitutes.
But that is the whole point… alpha men don’t love, want, need, use, pay for… prostitutes.
Diane
I don’t wonder why some men love prostitutes…I know.
Men love prostitutes because they’re easy. It’s a business transaction. Cash on the barrel head. Once a price is negotiated, it’s a done deal. That pretty much buys them all they want to hear and do.
This is about as close to “intimacy” as some men want/can get without making anything but a monetary investment. That’s called sex with no strings. Oh, 'cept the money…there is that string.
So be it. To each his own for whatever reason… it dun matter to me. But I can tell you this, I could never be romantically interested in a man who frequents, or has frequented, prostitutes. It speaks volumes about his character and his ability to relate to women…in the real world.
As far as prostitutes go…well, no doubt about it, they’re the best actresses on the planet. 
Bella
Exactly what I think Tisha was saying. I wouldn’t say I’m alpha myself, I’m probably more Beta than Alpha, but then again, not every concept can be applied to everyone.
You asked for the psychology and sociology of prostitution and Tisha gave a very good sociological point from her sons’ and husband’s point of view.
And damn Tisha, 17 yr old girl hittin on your 15 yr old son. Inflate his ego much? It would have for me at that age! xD
Do you see yourself as the husbands are depicted on TV? Bumbling, “slow”, slovenly, incapable?
Some very interesting perspectives on this thread. I wonder if perhaps some are more based on personal experience than a universal understanding of how people behave in different circumstances. Empirically, it seems to be me that of people who have an acute insight into attraction and sex, more of them are men because the payoff to such understanding is much higher for them than for women. Not that I hold myself out as being such a person, but some assorted thoughts follow.
The best single predictor of the incidence of prostitution, by the way, is probably income inequality. So in certain large cities over the past couple of decades, I would be shocked if the numbers do not indicate a sharp rise, along with the credit-driven boom. You can observe the recent fascination in popular culture with call girls as reflecting a belated recognition of this phenomenon (most likely just as it is peaking).
I think sexual attraction, as a feeling does have something to do with the way a person looks (and smells) - rather a lot for men. And it is certainly true that lower status men often end up settling for women that are far from attractive - to them, or to anyone else. By the nature of a man’s biology, it is quite possible to have sex with someone he finds somewhat unattractive but nevertheless to find some enjoyment in the experience. Beauty is objective because of the high degree of intersubjective agreement. We might not choose to notice this phenomenon out of politeness, but when exploring this topic it would be foolish to believe what one prefers to believe rather than what is based on reality.
With regards to the evolution of male and female character, it seems to me undeniable that american women over the past few decades have become more masculine, and that american men have become less masculine. The interplay between biological and cultural factors is complex and hard to fathom. But there is clearly something going on here.
Although he chooses to write in a somewhat offensive style to make his points, Roissy is one commentator that has tackled this topic. Eg
The Masculinization Of The Western White Female Roissy in DC
The Self-Made Beta Roissy in DC
I think it is clear that over the lifetime of a man his status can fluctuate. Via changing hormonal patterns and gene expression, we become different versions of ourselves depending on the influence of the environment. So which came first - the alpha or the money? In today’s world I have seen examples of each. Money certainly gives one the ability to explore the world, seek out potential new niches and take risks in a way that people without it are constrained from doing. Pheromone use is just one example of how one can use spare resources to transform oneself into a better version.
No. However, seeing those shows definitely sends a message that it’s dangerous to talk about things with the wife. “It’s just a TV show!”, you might say. It is, but art imitates life.
Jokes aside, the popularity of such depictions is quite alarming. At the rate our society is going, by the year 2109, American men are going have fewer rights than American women had in the year 1809. I won’t be around by then, but I’m worried for my future sons.
The modern society seems to do everything it can to make men ashamed of being male. Alpha males know how to “filter that out”; betas buy into it for one reason or another. However, even betas are starting to show signs of fighting back. Namely, fewer and fewer men want to get married nowadays. But they still want/need regular sex partners. Hence, the hookers.
I really don’t understand your logic. The TV shows accurately depict a relationship with a wife and women, but at the same don’t accurately depict men\ husbands?
I didn’t say that specifically. But TV plants ideas into people heads. It portrays all men/husbands as dumb, and all women/wives as bitchy. As a result, men start expecting their wives to be like the TV wives, and women start expecting their husbands to be like the TV husbands. Then an ugly pattern develops. Each party expects the other to be bad in some way, namely, like the TV convinced them. But those stereotypes are mostly, if not entirely, anti-male. A “bitchy” wife is considered “strong” or “powerful”, while a “dumb” husband is simply looked down upon.
That’s the difference between the depiction of women and depiction of men on TV. Accurate or not, it fuels the anti-male attitudes in our society.
Gotcha. I never thought about people being dumb enough to mistake TV characters as real relationships.
<<< Refuses to pay for cable or satellite and is doing OK so far without a converter box. 
“Dumb enough”? Dude, you clearly misunderstood every statement I made. I know well that those shows are fictional. But art imitates life. Which means the ideas for a domineering wife and a henpecked husband had to have come from somewhere. The show writers didn’t pull them out of thin air. Or if they did, they must have seen or heard about it in real life at one point, in order to have these ideas in the first place.
We all entitled to our own opinion, so let’s not start a forum war over this. We’re veering off on a tangent anyway; this thread is about hookers, not TV characters.