Our current president, whether you like him or not, is a clear example of a man who possesses all of these traits.
There are more older alphas than young alphas. I think a lot of it has to do with maturity.
I personally know quite a few.
Diane
I think you are right (except maybe the country part) and I think he is a horrible president.
Here’s the question to ask yourself… is he a real alpha? He fits all of those traits but anybody can learn to follow them. (And this is from a purely unbiased standpoint on the president, by the way.) Great example though… never would have thought of the president.
I think I’m beginning to conclude that there are different alphas for different social groups. Perhaps Diane’s alphas are the highest level an alpha can ever achieve, but that’s not to say there are other, lesser ones.
Well, I dont know about “a real alpha” though I believe he is, I was only concluding that he fits Dianes description. Yes, I do agree about the “different alphas for different social groups.” A clear example would be the agreed upon alpha male at the gym I attend is very different from the agreed upon alpha at my university (Columbia).
Another thing about prostitutes that I don’t think has been mentioned is simply that they are professionals. Women may not want to hear this but talk to any man who has dealt with prostitutes and they will tell you a good one will give a sexual experience that an amateur can’t. You get what you pay for when you get free sex. Any skill takes approximately 10000 hours to master and amateurs just can’t dedicate that much time to it. I think too much has been made of the emotional connection between the customer and prostitute, although some will pay for a “girlfriend experience”.
I don’t think most men would trade the intimate connection between their lover and themselves for the skill of a prostitute. I’m just saying that an alpha looking for the best sex might end up paying fot it, especially if he was single..
the question is really, is an alpha left single long enough that he would end up paying for sex?
I think that the army-examples suggest yes. Find me an alpha male who hasn’t even talked to a female for weeks, let alone had sex, and they’re bound to pursue whatever they can get. It’s not easy to get yourself a true girlfriend or even a short fling while serving duty, especially if always on the move. But finding a prostitute is not only feasible, but serves physiological needs without compromising their emotional state. It is, afterall, a business transaction. It may reoccur but it’s just business, nothing personal. (Or that’s how it’s supposed to be anyways.)
It would be interesting to see how things have changed… there’s a lot more women in the armed services than there used to be. I’ve even heard that now they allow couples serving in the Army to sleep in the same enclosure.
I really think that is contextual. On an everyday basis, probably not, because his access to the best women is pretty well assured, and because of the “low” stigma attached to seeking out prostitutes.
But during wartime, in another country… that is another story all together, and a question I can’t answer. I’m guessing it would be more probable, but it depends on so many things.
I talked to my husband about this and he said that he believes that prostitution should be legalized. But he also said he wouldn’t be caught dead going to a prostitute no matter what the circumstances.
Diane
Wow. That’s like… a perfect or ideal person. Not just alpha male, just Alpha. Period. IMO you find very very few of these people today. And if you do, like the above post said, they’re usually taken.
/edit
A lot of special forces are generally alpha male with many of the characteristics you’ve described. But if you’re away from home for long periods of time and your life is always at risk… well, who knows what might happen.
Diane, Well that makes sense and of course I talked to my fiance about this as well and of course he wouldnt be caught dead.. yada, yada, yada, “legalized is ideal” yada, but after this post, I am left to wonder exactly WHO would be “caught alive” no matter what the circumstances going to a prostitute? Alpha, Beta, Omega, Outerspace Alien…
The question is who would admit it even if he had, even if there were no legal or marital consequences?
There is a reason it is embarrassing to admit you’ve been to see a prostitute and it has very little to do with legality and everything to do with social morality.
It is a low status behavior, and even those who regularly see prostitutes wouldn’t admit it to anyone other than maybe to other guys who do the same.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don’t see men marching in the streets or doing petition drives to get it legalized.
Diane
Being in a solid relationship with a GREAT MAN that I love, I should agree with your ways of thinking.
However, to be quite honest, I have a hard time with “social morality” ideals that were created for me without my consent. I struggle to tame my repressions, natural instincts and passions strangled by these “moral codes.”
Luckily, Ive been blessed with a lifestyle that permits me outlets and vents for my frustrations (yoga and dance), I often wonder what types of activities people must turn to to outlet theirs, and Im sure that all of you reading this must wonder too, or this conversation would not have sparked your interest.
Yeah, this conversation is quite interesting to say the least. I guess one might also question what type of people come to this website. I mean, pheromones are only the 10% of the whole personality I suppose, but a lot of first-timers likely come here looking to change the other 90%, mostly without changing themselves at all to match. (Hence the reason they don’t get any results.)
I guess I’ll pose the question to you and Diane… would you classify a man as an alpha or beta if he bought a product such as TUTH? What about AMMO? Instant Gentleman? etc.
There are plenty of creative outlets. I have a feeling you’ve got destructive outlets in mind… which I guess makes me wonder whether or not seeking a prostitute is a productive or destructive outlet. One one hand it’s effective (I’m not saying it’s efficient or desirable), on the other it can become devastatingly addicting. Look at Kanye West and others who are actually addicted to sex. When something starts to get in the way of normal, everyday behavior, that one thing is destructive. And if it’s reoccurring, then it’s an addiction that needs to be solved.
The easiest example of what I mean is someone who uses Facebook or MySpace. Both have their uses of networking and are effective at this. However I can personally count a handful of friends that are will spend more time on these websites than is strictly necessary. To get them to leave will almost require forcefully pulling them away from the computer. And whenever they find a free moment, they’ll be right back on these sites.
I think everyone would agree that spending hours online is a much more desirable outlet than prostitution, however both become destructive at a certain point (as do all things).
As far as the legalization of prostitution goes, it’s difficult to say if the lack of parades and marches has anything to do with people being ashamed to admit to it. Out here we’ve got legalized (medical) Marijuana. The laws even permit smoking it if you don’t have the permit. (The catch is the law is written so you’re not allowed to possess it.) Whenever someone writes up a bill to make it illegal, there are rallies against the bill. I believe this is because it’s already semi-legal for all, therefore the cost of being seen as a supporter is far less than if it were illegal.
If you were to go to Amsterdam and draft up a bill to make prostitution marijuana illegal, the outcry would be phenomenal. A similar bill to outlaw prostitution would be met with harsh opposition as well. (Even though the numbers are fewer as not everybody has a strong opinion on the topic.)
This is kind of hard to explain. I used the term “social morality” but maybe I should have said “social mores” because I didn’t intend to talk about those strictures that are imposed from without, but rather those urges for community that arise in individuals in a group that holds the community together as a cohesive whole.
It is adult human nature to still have immature urges, yet repress them for the good of the community. That is called socialization and it is part of the normal maturation process. Normally, it is a freely given choice by the individual, so much so, that those who don’t repress their urges aren’t real proud of that fact, and certainly don’t normally hold themselves up as models before the rest of the community.
Oh, I dunno about that. Check out this link:
Prostitute windows shut down in Amsterdam’s Red Light District - Monsters and Critics
Diane
That looks more like it’s a move to curb criminal activities. As the article itself states, “Prostitution and the operating of a brothel are not in themselves criminal offences.” It’s more likely that they’re trying to crack down on illegal business practices. The government wants all the taxes it’s due, afterall.
Yes he is Alpha in personality but I have a feeling in his relationship Michele is the Alpha. Don’t know for sure but its just how I feel from observing them together
There are, which I alluded to before. There are levels of Alpha that apply to circumstance. These levels do not change the nature of the personality traits of the person though. You still have your Alpha your Beta and your omegas. Diane is referring to the “High Alpha” in her description He/she is usually the Alpha in most situations.
The Alpha also has the ability to easily step into the Beta position and back again but in doing so doesn’t lose there Alpha characteristics or become a Beta in personality.
Example… The president and Michele. Its my guess in the relationship she is the Alpha even though Barak is a alpha in personality.
Or as I mentioned earlier both myself and my husband are Alpha in personality. I step into the Beta position to his Alpha in our relationship in most instances. You cant have two Alphas competing for the same position without conflict. One has to step into the beta position. Its part of how social hierarchy works and is something you see in all primates and mammals who stay in packs.
The omega’s are subservient to both the betas and the alphas. I work with a couple of those and its not pretty.
Chad I am guessing your young so your experience is with young women. They get better with time LOL 
Young men are not exactly skilled either. Its something we all learn with practice. This in my opinion would be a very poor reason indeed to seek a prostitute.
My point and the one I believe Diane was trying to make is that there is no emotional connection with a prostitute. You cant pay for a connection and thinking you have one with them is a illusion. A prostitute may sense a guy needs to feel connected so may take on that role to make a buck but its not a true connection. There is no girlfriend experience.
Its the same thing I have told guys about strippers. I don’t know if you ever read Data’s stripper thread. I know a few women who are strippers. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you look like. It doesn’t matter what your personality is like if you have the cash they will be nice to you and so many guys mistake this for attraction or thinking the girl is into them. If you could hear what they say about the guys when they are peaking out from the back room or when they are behind the scenes you would be shocked. Its a illusion and as long as men keep that in perspective fine. I am not really against the profession of stripping or prostitution. People make the mistake of thinking I am because of my view on it. They think I am a feminist which makes me laugh. I don’t look at it as just men exploiting women for sex. I look at it as women exploiting men for money or material gain. I think both genders are worth so much more then that and deserve so much more.
Many relationships have these characteristic’s as well. Men have mentioned girls dating them strictly for personal gain. In this situation emotions…connection …respect and trust come into play. This is what sets the relationship apart from just being a financial transaction and a actual relationship.
anywhooo…
I have more respect for a guy who just says I went to a hooker to get my rocks off then someone who tries to make it into something its not.
Case in point my dad and my BMF. Both admitted to using hookers during the war to get there rocks off. They didn’t make excuses or pretend it was anything more then that.
I don’t think anyone wants to get caught LOL There is a stigmatism that people morally apply to it.
Exactly it is low status behavior.
Well I live by my own moral code and have never let society dictate that for me and at least try not to ever let anything strangle my natural instincts. Its just the way I was brought up. As long as what I do doesnt harm another I pretty much do as I please.
The answer is simple. Don’t let society dictate your actions or repress you. If you do its your own doing not theirs. On the same line of thought be in tune with your surroundings and the people in it. I don’t look at it as repressing my actions if I don’t walk around naked all the time which is something I tend to do alot at home. LOL I look at it as respecting other peoples views and feelings.
I know this is for Di but my 2 cents since I know a great deal of the men here and what they use well…
Most of the Alpha men here lean towards IG A314 IH type mones but they do use TUTH and AMMO as well. You can see a huge difference especially when you do intro’s every day. The Beta personality tends to jump all over the sexual products and pays little attention to the others.
Just buying the product though really doesnt indicate a guy is one or the other on its own though.
Well said
Tish
[quote=“diane999, post:155, topic:29990”]
This is kind of hard to explain. I used the term “social morality” but maybe I should have said “social mores” because I didn’t intend to talk about those strictures that are imposed from without, but rather those urges for community that arise in individuals in a group that holds the community together as a cohesive whole.
It is adult human nature to still have immature urges, yet repress them for the good of the community. That is called socialization and it is part of the normal maturation process. Normally, it is a freely given choice by the individual, so much so, that those who don’t repress their urges aren’t real proud of that fact, and certainly don’t normally hold themselves up as models before the rest of the community.
Diane, I was not reffering to the “social mores” but the repression behind them… You’re point is valid and correct. These “immature urges” are what Im talking about. Short of rape and murder, havent you wondered what would happen “IF” many taboos were legalized? I certainly do. And many of them are in the process of reversing (gay marriage, medical marijuana) I would bet someday though frowned upon, prostitution will be legal.
“Example… The president and Michele. Its my guess in the relationship she is the Alpha even though Barak is a alpha in personality.”
Yes, thats interesting perspective, Obama as the alpha of this country, and Michele the alpha of that family.
“Its the same thing I have told guys about strippers. I don’t know if you ever read Data’s stripper thread. I know a few women who are strippers. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you look like. It doesn’t matter what your personality is like if you have the cash they will be nice to you and so many guys mistake this for attraction or thinking the girl is into them If you could hear what they say about the guys when they are peaking out from the back room or when they are behind the scenes you would be shocked. Its a illusion and as long as men keep that in perspective fine.”
Tisha, I couldnt agree with you more, and no strippers do not get aroused on stage (I mean come on guys, would you get aroused doing a routine number on a stage) and these gals know how to keep you believing they like you.
“Most of the Alpha men here lean towards IG A314 IH type mones but they do use TUTH and AMMO as well. You can see a huge difference especially when you do intro’s every day. The Beta personality tends to jump all over the sexual products and pays little attention to the others.”
Thats too funny, it makes one wonder.
[quote=“Julia, post:158, topic:29990”]
Well let’s see, a two year old sees something he wants and takes it. If another toddler has it he pushes the toddler down, making him cry, and takes it. Well, that sounds like Chicago the past few weeks.
If your neighbor decided to cut loose and he liked your car, and took it… or liked you and took you… I don’t think you’d like that very much.
Gay boys were in the past notorious for their free-wheeling sex styles, multiple partners, bath houses, etc. HIV and rampant STD’s in that community put a brake on that one. I lost two very good friends to that lifestyle and I miss them both every day.
I guess my point is that immature urges for the most part are really selfish and destructive. The person who is immature doesn’t see it that way.
He steals from his employer and thinks its no big deal because the employer has lots of money.
He has affairs on his wife and lies to her and thinks it is no big deal because what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her.
He sees prostitutes and thinks the one he is seeing is too pretty to have any STD’s.
When he is caught stealing, fucking around, or bringing gonorrhea home to his wife, he is resentful and still thinks it is no big deal. Even as he is fired, is sentenced, is thrown out of the house, is divorced and not allowed to see his kids, etc., he thinks what he did was no big deal.
And as far as taboos go, how do you feel about these ones:
Incest
Pedophilia
Bestiality
Do you want those recinded/changed/accepted as normal? And if you don’t, why not? They are short of rape and murder. And people who practice those things want the freedom to do so. Just look at NAMBLA.
Diane