There aren’t two camps of thought here, folks. We are talking about different topics, though. To clarify, every decision we make about self-confidence comes from within. Period. Even when there are external factors and events that happen, you and you alone decide when and where to place importance on how those factors impact your self-confidence. Let me repeat, the process is entirely imternal. even when external events seem to influence where you place the emphasis.
You alone decide whether life events give you more or less self-confidence:
A schoolyard bully
A spurned pickup at a club
A parent who was cruel/violent
Buying and owning a nice car
A big raise
Learning to play an instrument
Going to the gym
Any one of those things can hold a positive or negative life lesson that affects your esteem, but that desicion all happens in your head. The point is (as I’ve stated before in this thread), an event is just an event, whether you choose to place positive or negative negative emphasis on that event regarding your self-esteem is up to you.
Haven’t you ever had something “bad” happen to you, only to later realize that was the best thing that could have occurred for you? The event didn’t change, only your internal label did (and with it, your readjustment of your self-confidence).
The choice to place importance (or not) on anything is always yours alone, whether its earning an emotional paycheck or being turned down by a girl.
I think most of the posters in this thread get that. Each person has their own personal choices (internal or external) of where they place their internal importance of what factors influence their self-esteem.
As for the bad advice of “get more confidence,” you were asking your untrained friends for free psychological advice and years later you feel they failed you horribly. Those bastards. They had their hearts in the right place, but let’s face it, they’re stil bastards.
What will be the next thread? Those same buddies? I asked them what I should do with extra $20 I had one time and instead of telling me to invest it, they said buy more beer! Shouldn’t they have given me better financial advice? I say hunt those buggers down one by one and hang em. I hate people who give free advice. What do you people think about that?
Coulda, woulda, shoulda…
Oh well, we can look forward to a thread 6 years from now about how this thread didn’t help either…
Considering the state of the financial/investment world, your friends gave you sound advice. You would have enjoyed $20 in beer and good times. Maybe even got laid. Otherwise that $20 is probably worth $3 after net losses…
Yes , sometimes its an ow to hear someone tell you to be confident because some part of your mind is thinking.
“Great what do you think is wrong with me that I need to be more confident” or “haha wish it was that easy bud”.
But generally, if a persons not on your side they won’t try to help you out and the advice be confident comes from a positive intention.Well in general anyways.
However, They say the road to hell was paved with good intentions.Sometimes, its hard to know what to say when someone hurts.
Also..I think after a certain amount of trauma ANYONE starts being withdrawn on some level or another.Its more instinct than choice.No different than if you burn your hand on the stove you’ll be more careful near it later on.Sure we can choose to fight that instinct but an instinct is a hard thing to fight.
So when we try to reach out and get shooed away so many times.It becomes conditioned.Pavlov’s dog anyone?
But most of us try our best to lift others up I think. Then again I’m a silly little idealist
We’re here for a common purpose and cause.
Lets try not to loose that along the way folks.
Pheros and play. Pheros and evolution. Pheros for psychology.
Either we come here to find a pheromone to lure a date or mate.
Or a pheromone to break ourselves free of a mold we’ve found ourselves stuck in.
To save a relationship or build on one.
To relieve some stress.
Or from curiosity.
We are all here to support each other and to learn to share and to advance ourselves as human beings using a tool that we are all still learning about and to advance the tool we’re building here.
And a mighty fine tool it is that Androtics has provided us.
Let me just add this. Usually all the advice about being confident comes from people who it comes easy to, or who are already confident. This goes for advice about anything…it’s all about saying: “just do this, just do that…” and I think that’s part of what Attractor is trying to say. I don’t remember where I heard this, but someone said:“…It’s like taking financial advice from someone who got wealthy by inheritance, or winning the lottery.” It just won’t work. Basically, I agree with all the people that said, it starts with you and ends with you. You are the only one that can improve yourself and other people’s actions or thoughts towards you won’t (shouldn’t) have any basis in that goal towards improvement.
I see where you’re coming from Robbie and to an extent I agree. Confidence is an internal thing. However I don’t think it’s as simple as just choosing to be confident over not being confident or choosing to see the good that comes out of seemingly bad things. My lack of confidence with women haunts me. If I could choose to just wake up tomorrow and feel more confident then I would but it’s not that easy. I think the point to me is not to have a go at those people who say “be more confident.” or “man up” or whatever but to actually explore ways that I can tap into that confidence. It’s something that’s buried quite deep with me personally but there are things I can do to overcome that. I think that, although confidence is something that comes from in it is also a real and learnable skill, not just the ability to seem confident but to actually be confident.
To some people this will come naturally and that’s brilliant. To other’s though it’s a struggle for whatever reason and, however well intentioned the advice is “just be more confident.” won’t work because, well that’s what i’m trying to do. Again I’m not having a go at you or anyone else who offers that advice here, as you say it’s free and it’s not coming from a proffessional but I think it’s important to think a little deeper than that and try and come up with some real tools for self development.
Now I think that the exersise you mentioned is certainly worthwhile and potentially helpful but what else is there? Hypnosis has been mentioned in this thread and I can see possible benefits there too, perhaps modelling yourself on others with the right skillset could help, maybe NLP could help too. I think that rather than possibly talking past each other we could get real value from this thread (especially with the great original thinkers we have on here) to look past the surface and find ways to really help each other out.
One thing nobody has mentioned is confidence grows out of becoming the best you can possibly be at something, and this confidence tends to spill over into other aspects of your life. It also gives you a great connection to other people. For example, if you work your ass off and become the best actor, musician, director, surfer, preacher, etc., you can be, you feel both confident and good about yourself. People see this confidence when you’re involved with your mastered activity and are naturally attracted.
I have been involved with many performing groups and have observed skill and confidence grow in the participants as the months go by. Of course they worked their butts off on stage but I could easily see their professional growth also exuded in their personal life, impacting their behavior, social status and relationships. There is much to gained about having a strong focus and purpose in life. Of course this is not a perfect solution for everybody, but it worked for me and I’ve seen it work for many others.
This is very true. Having the right state of mind is very important. However, you really can’t become more confident by magically changing your beliefs. It’s like when you read the Light Her Fire book to learn to pleasure your girlfriend, but all it says is “do what she likes” with no specifics examples. I’m not having a go at anyone either, but I am trying to point out how telling someone to “be more confident” could end up being counterproductive for some people.
Also, when something bad happens, no matter how hard I try, I just can’t delude myself into thinking it was the best thing that ever happened to me. If it was bad, there’s no changing it. However, I can either dwell on it, or decide “f’k it, it’s in the past”, learn my lesson, and move on with my life. Next time, I’ll act differently to avoid the same bad experience, and possibly have a good experience instead.
Referring to the two camps I mentioned earlier, I noticed an interesting pattern. The Mentalist camp consists mostly of people who are already confident and/or at least partially successful in their dating life. The Experientialist camp consists mostly of people who are currently working on becoming confident through whatever means available to them. Just saying.
Very true gegogi, but i think the contention is that self confidence has multiple components, so yes, externally derived through success, achievement, upbringing, competence, contentment or indeed other peoples opinion.
But the critical factor is how you view yourself internally, or interpret any given situation.
For example, a cheaply dressed man walking down Wall Street may find himself inadequate or intimidated. But only if he chooses to, or he might see himself as an academic, or non materialistic intellectual, more consumed with creating value with substance than a tailor made suit: not conformist.
And this internal paradigm creates a foundation for self confidence. Which manifests itself externally with your actions, words, posture etc….others pick this up, and the well dressed man walking past you wanders if maybe …you just put a major acquisition together.
Well I guess I will add my two cents. I agree you cant just tell someone to "go be confident " and they will. It doesn’t work that way. However I don’t agree with the statement above. Look up confidence in the dictionary. Its full trust, belief in others and ones self. If you believe you can not obtain confidence your right, you cant, because the first step in doing anything in life is to believe you can
We are not born with confidence. But we learn it very quickly because the loved ones around us give us positive affirmation and reinforcement. Just watch a baby learn to walk. They believe they can, everybody else is doing it they just have to figure out how. They pull themselves up on the end table and happily take that first step only to fall on their face. Sure it hurts but they try hundreds of times until one day they let go of that end table and walk those 10 steps into their parents arms and the light of confidence is born in them. As they learn to master all those everyday abilities… Potty training, dressing ones self, Riding a bike… things that we all learned at some point it makes that confidence grow.
So what happens to take that confidence away ? I agree that no one can just take it from you but they can take away your belief in yourself and when they do that the light begins to dim if your not careful. Negative feedback, rejection, unkindness even just being told you cant… all those vibes can make you believe that maybe your not good enough or you cant do this or that. Once you believe those negative thoughts you will never build confidence.
Parents can do this inadvertently by planting seeds. They don’t mean to do it but it just happens… “Don’t be stupid” “You cant do that” “That’s to hard for you”… So can peers. It slowly whittles away at your belief in yourself and if you do not have enough positive reinforcement to counter this that light of confidence go’s out. That positive reinforcement can come from you and what you choose to believe. It can come from positive peers, the ones that believe in you and say … “Just do it”
Everyone one of us has confidence, you learned it once and yes you can learn it again. Even if that light is out its never gone. You just have to find it. How do you do this, you ask ? The same way you did when you learned to walk. By first believing you can. I am not saying to “Just believe” that would be like saying “just have confidence”
Belief is obtained by surrounding yourself by positive energy. By telling yourself… “I can do this” " I do have worth" “I am a good person” “I deserve all I desire” Positive affirmation. Saying it over and over everyday until you believe it. By focusing on your successes and strengths. Surrounding yourself by positive influence. Just like good old mom and dad did for you when you were born.
Confidence is obtained by taking that belief and putting it into action just like the child who learns to walk. You will fall down and sometimes it will hurt, just clean yourself off and get back up. You didn’t learn to walk over night and you cant build your confidence in one day. Focus on each success big or small. Build one confidence on another, as Gegogi mentioned confidence tends to spill over and before you know it that light will be shining again.
Once you have it nurture that confidence. Don’t let negative feedback or people influence your beliefs.
Just because your confident doesn’t mean rejection will never happen to you or that you will never fail. Its what you learn from it, How you grow from the experience. Its not letting those times change what you believe about you. Bad shit happens to all of us. When it does I look for the good in it. Its there, life is a balance and there can not be good without Bad or light without dark. The difference between the confident and the people struggling to find their confidence is when bad experiences happen to the confident they look for the light and people who are not confident tend to only see the dark.
This is true, But those people tend to have belief in themselves already and there lies the secret
I think external encouragement is a life long process. Hard times can sneek up on you and having a strong support system of positive influence only keeps you stronger. Kinda like changing the oil in your car LOL
I also think giving positive influence to others is just as important to your own self esteem and your personal positive outlook.
Tisha, you said it perfectly. I can agree with everything, except one part: the one about telling yourself positive statements, the “positive thinking”, basically. No matter how hard I try, I just can’t buy into it psychologically; it feels too New Age for me. I’ve adopted it a modified version of it, though. Instead of saying “I can do it” when I’m not sure if I can, I say “I’m willing to try it just to see if I can do it.” This more realist version works better for me.
I think external encouragement is a life long process. Hard times can sneek up on you and having a strong support system of positive influence only keeps you stronger. Kinda like changing the oil in your car LOL
very true me lady. Though with a little self belief the hard times but present more challenges for you to overcome, especially without any support.
I also think giving positive influence to others is just as important to your own self esteem and your personal positive outlook.
Hey if that works for you then that’s great. Its still positive influence and eventually, as your confidence grows you will find yourself saying “I can do this” without even thinking consciously about it. Its all good.
I know a lot of people think all this talk about “Believing” is new age crap but it has been a fundamental part of our lives from the beginning of time. There is nothing new age about it or about positive affirmation. Its always been there we just made up a name for it.
Belief and affirmation are the backbone of every religion on the planet.
Its what has fueled every successful person in time.
Why do you think the Taliban is so strong ? Its not cause they are smart or sneaky its because they truly believe they are right.
Its so simple yet so powerful and it truly is the secret to life.
What was the very first thing God, Jesus or whom ever you worship, asked of mankind ?
Believe… Maybe the secret was never really a secret at all, we just misunderstood it. Perhaps it was meant to believe in one self as well as in him/her.
Well, it is actually not new age at all, it’s called cognitive behavioral therapy, and it is very straight forward, logical, and scientific.
It’s not a panacea, but for things like social anxiety (which is basically what we are talking about here) its one of the most useful treatments, and is supported by a large body of empirical evidence.
Yep, it’s been been a tenet of Christian faith for 2000 years. First thing we learned in Sunday school back in the day.
I hear a few students in performing classes utter the words “I can’t do it” from time to time. Of course they can do it but they give up easily as success involves hard work, study and failures before you nail it. Once you learn the process, it gets easier every time. Sadly, often the biggest losers/hussies are very talented but crippled by their attitude. And the negative self defeating attitude is worn like a banner, so everybody knows you’re a loser. And who wants to date, hire, invite to heaven or hang with a loser?
Here is a beautiful example of what is causing millions and millions of people to FAIL in life.
It is called SELF LIMITING NEGATIVE/FAULTY THINKING. Very popular with skeptics and people who genuinely don’t want to succeed, or want to get attention by complaining. (And before you think I am making personal attacks, I am also guilty of doing this from time to time. No personal attacks, just making a statement.)
Let’s consider your current belief system:
“you really can’t become more confident by magically changing your beliefs”.***
“I just can’t delude myself into thinking it was the best thing that ever happened to me. If it was bad, there’s no changing it.”
You have very effectively set absolute limits on your own reality.
Notice that the words “can’t” and “no” are used - negative. Notice that this is not just negative thinking, but absolutist negative thinkig; for you, as long as you think this way, sir, this will be your reality. Just as surely as it would be for me if I suddenly started thinking like you do. (I came from where you are right now in terms of my thinking, so I kinda know what I’m talking about here.) What you think is what you make yourself. Negative thinking comes very often as a defense from fear of either success or failure.
“Magically” changing your beliefs? Where is it magical? This implies foo foo thinking. You’re saying that you can’t change because you start saying affirmations. And this only points out to me that you are not understanding something I said before, which is…
You cannot get changes from working outside inward. You make change by working from the inside out.
You are saying you “can’t” because your paradigm is so entrenched in the outsideinward thinking that you cannot even fathom inside outward as a possibility.
Inside outward change requires the understanding that thoughts are things, and that they have a very real impact and effect on you and your surroundings (indeed, your entire reality). It may require that you put your disbelief aside to get started with this kind of change, but that’s only because the part of the mind you are thinking with is the logical side, and the part of the mind you need to start this journey with is the emotional side. They are mutually exclusive. Criticism causes dreams to wither and die, if they are exposed to it too soon; just like you are saying confidence does.
You have this idea that it is “magical” and “delusional” and both of these are in themselves negative things for you. So you reject them, and deny yourself whatever potential benefit they might have for you. Okay. Fine… but just remember… YOU rejected them, based on negative thinking. Your thinking is what makes these seem to be negative ideas, and that is what makes you reject them.
There is no “foo foo” here. This is not “new age” crap. This is not “magical thinking” or “self delusion”. It is nothing more than changing your mind. Instead of choosing to think negatively, and limiting yourself to a lack of confidence thereby, which you can then complain about, all you have to do is open your mind to the conclusion that maybe “what is” isn’t working for you, and therefore something needs to change.
Everything starts with a thought. Therefore, the place that it makes the most sense to start with change is your thinking.
Thinking is based on accepted beliefs. You cave accepted negative beliefs about certain things, obviously, which cause you to scorn and thus reject them. I get that. I scorn and reject a lot of stuff I consider “new age foo foo bullsh*t” too. But self delusional, I am not.
I didn’t get where I am by just accepting that hypnosis, NLP, subliminals, or affirmations work. I did what any good scientist would do. I tested them for myself - starting with a NEUTRAL point of view. “I don’t know what this will do.” I let them prove themselves. And they did.
And then before I started making and selling the subliminals, I had people try them out. Over, and over, and over. I learned what works and what doesn’t. I learned, quite simply, that this stuff works, and works damned well, as long as you’re open to it. The only reason it wouldn’t work is because you don’t let it.
And guess what? Not letting it work, rejecting it, is also choosing your reality. You are choosing to experience a reality in which you have less than the amount of self confidence you want. You. Not life, not God, not anyone else. YOU. If that’s what makes you happy, more power to ya. If not… you’ll need to make some changes. And they have to start with what you believe, which will change how and what you think, which will change your point of view, and how you act and react, which will change your outer reality to match your inner reality.
I really don’t care if you “believe” me. You accepting what I say does not validate me, does not stroke my ego, does not make me more “right”. I couldn’t care less. I don’t care. And I don’t care because I don’t need to care - I live in my reality, my world, and my chosen reality is unaffected by your choice of accepting what I say. Because I choose that reality, based on my thinking and beliefs. See how this works?
There are those who actively choose their reality and those who drift down the river accepting whatever they get. You’re welcome to drift if you like - but I rather enjoy using the motor.
And about negative experiences being good? I’ll tell you a little story.
Once upon a time there was a guy who had a fiance. His fiance cheated on him with at least seven different guys. Then she left him for a drunk abusive plumber whom she went off to screw and do drugs with. He had two choices: he could view it as a bad experience, become bitter, and kill everyone involved, or he could view it as a painful lesson that offered him the chance to learn and grow into a better, stronger man.
He chose the latter. Because of that choice, he is now a much stronger, more self respecting man with higher self esteem who refuses to allow himself to be treated poorly or cheated on. As a bonus, he isn’t dead, in prison, or wasting his time and energy on hate and revenge.
This guy has a lot more self confidence, too, because of this choice and experience. And yes, it was his choice. He came very close to killing her, the plumber and himself over the ordeal. Instead, he chose to view this in a positive way. He chose to see it not as a horrible tragedy that had been done to him, but as a difficult lesson that ultimately would benefit him, as it has. What a difference owning your point of view makes. No “new age” bullsh*t thinking there.
In the end, man, it’s your choice what you think and what you think is what you become inside and experience outside.
