I’m new here but just because I’m new doesn’t mean I can’t add some fresh perspective for consideration.
I mentioned in reply to another thread about some of the various factors that come in to play with regards to pheromones. In that post I mentioned in response to a person that stopped using IIRC MX353 (actually is was its predicessor cant remember the number off the top o my head)
The user stated he had seen inconsistent results previously and stopped using that mone. he started using it again and found better/more consistent results. I noted that a persons natural mone signature can and does vary throughout the day and wanted to elaborate a bit. It occurrs to me that the mones you use can be influenced by what your body naturally produces. What you produce can and is affected by age, diet, stress level, mood, and I’m sure thats just the tip of the iceberg. But don’t forget that reactivity is also dependent on your targets mood, age, etc.
Now here is an interesting thing I would like to point out (wish I thought to save the link) If your tgt is a woman it should be noted that as she reaches ovulation in her cycle her sensitivity and reactivity to mones increases. This is a known tested biological fact. So it is something to be aware of. So keep it in mind when using mones.
As a side note and sort of an open for speculation/discussion. I am curious if people have considered that as your body knows what mones you are using and in many cases is well able to produce these chemicals itself. Does anyone care to weigh in on whether or not your body may start naturally producing the simulated signature you use if in environments where you would normally have them but arent using them at the time.
That is to say I go to a club every friday for 3 months and use the same signature. then 1 day i go to the club and dont spray. Will my body say “hey this isnt right im in a club. I want X results here thus I should have X signature. But I haven’t been sprayed hmmm let me just fix that” and start producing the signature itself.
Alternatively has it been considered that the use of mones suplimentarily might long term actually reduce the bodies natural production because it’s used to getting sprayed to get the desired signature?
Here’s an idea. Use Instant Shine for a lengthy period in high amounts. Upregulation/negative modulation of GABA, NDMA or glutamate decreases effects with time. Withdraw it, and equilibrium and pheromone effects again return. We don’t know if it affects endogenous mones, because the regulation and mone output isn’t measured concomitantly. Nevertheless, this is a plausible hypothesis for diminishing effects and adaptive (A314/P75) personality changes. Personally, and specifically with androsterone and P75, I think mone output does change, with additional positive and negative hypothalmic and endocrine feedback. Gene polymorphisms probably affect individual, gender and ethnic variability. Nobody developed targeted mixes for women with ADHD, but, being paradoxical responders (Mega TAF is calming), they should. MX353 was supposed to have a huge TAF dose. See the melanistic jaguar below as a practical example. I know some of these topics are in basic college biology texts.
Mones is complicated. About 100X more so than my lackluster post. All of those terms are on Wikipedia. Most of them are mentioned in any good used Physiology or Organic Chem / Biology 101. The Demystified subject study books are good. This doesn’t show the chloride channel or allosteric binding sites well, but, basically, mones are pretty closely bound to the same sites as ethanol. The relaxing ones (TAC) anyway. They open the ion channel or help keep it open for GABA to work better. Numerous binding sites on that synapse picture. Putting it differently, it’s thought downregulation of GABA might cause ethanol addiction. Withdraw it, and DT’s (convulsions) are possible. Pheromone-type chemicals re-regulate and prevent convulsions. Genetic polymorphisms may predict why some women would or would not be more likely to use drugs. High-androgen women display drinking and aggression similar to their high-eNone counterparts, with all the similar crime and social problems. Find a chick that starts bar fights and check her None output. Might be pretty high. This remains to be proved via further study.
TL;DR: Everyone is different. Your mileage may vary. People have different natural pheromone levels but we don’t really understand if the natural output is effected by the synthesized forms, some say yes, some say no. Which is why Androtics started this project in the first place. There is still science to be done. But yes. Your natural canvas will affect the pheromones effects. (IE Don’t jerk it in the shower before you put on Ammo because it will fuck with the natual output of pheromones, and could cause an OD.)
Thanks for the clarification. I could half way read between the lines of your first post, but wanted to make sure I was getting the mones goodness you were sharing
I’m of the mind that masturbation in the shower before AMMO would cause a decrease in testosterone in which case there would be a less likely chance of OD even if he wore to much. lol
The only way I can see testosterone going right after ejaculation is if the person was wearing cops or having sex with a female and being exposed to a natural source of cops.
Well I guess it’s fair at least to say then that we are the human testing dept of the research lab. Yay guinea pigs. Seems reasonable that we should maintain an awareness of possible long term effects and not just remain shortsighted by immediatte results.
Great attitude! Glad to have you here. All people have something to contribute (sure, I know, more some than others), and I’m glad you’ve looked past your “newbieism” and stuck your ideas out there. We like stirring the pot, because, even though there is a lot of material covered so far, there is far more that isn’t, and we’re all still frontiersmen.
Stirring the pot helps cultures to grow, it helps the cultures at the bottom of the pot reach the top of the pot, and so on. We’d like to incubate a polite culture of pot stirring, here.
They say “Absence makes the heart grow fonder”, eh?
I hear they also say, “Everything affects everything.”
Other hypernosmic smellers? Pregnant women. Jeez, do these women have an evolutionary knack for noses or what!
On the flip side, also tested: Smokers have something like 60% less smell sensitivity. Which also affects reactivity. It’s called induced hyposmia. Food for thought.
(I’ll dig up the study and quote it when I have a moment – I can’t find it in my notes for some reason)
And, to round out the “osmias”, there’s anosmia, which is lack of smell . It’s studied that many anosmic people are driven to suicide, or otherwise live stunted/shorter lives. … But does that mean they are not pheromone sensitive? Hmmm. More food for thought.
I think we had a few patrons come through on the board here who were hyposmic or totally anosmic. We should look them up and rustle the feathers, so to speak. Meaning bump their threads in hopes they flock back and contribute to the idea pool here, lol.
More interesting notes from across the interwebiverse:
Our smelling ability increases to reach a plateau at about the age of eight, and declines in old age. Some researchers claim that our smell-sensitivity begins to deteriorate long before old age, perhaps even from the early 20s. One experiment claims to indicate a decline in sensitivity to specific odours from the age of 15! But other scientists report that smelling ability depends on the person’s state of mental and physical health, with some very healthy 80-year-olds having the same olfactory prowess as young adults. [ed’s note: I don’t know if I believe this one.] Women consistently out-perform men on all tests of smelling ability (see Sex differences).
Schizophrenics, depressives, migraine sufferers and very-low-weight anorexics often experience olfactory deficits or dysfunctions. One group of researchers claims that certain psychiatric disorders are so closely linked to specific olfactory deficits that smell-tests should be part of diagnostic procedures. Zinc supplements have been shown to be successful in treating some smell and taste disorders.
Although smoking does not always affect scores on smell-tests, it is widely believed to reduce sensitivity.
A recent study at the University of Pennsylvania suggests that, contrary to popular belief, blind people do not necessarily have a keener sense of smell than sighted people. In their experiments on blind and sighted people, the top performers on most tests were (sighted) employees of the Philadelphia Water Department who had been trained to serve on the Department’s water quality evaluation panel. The researchers conclude that training is the factor most likely to enhance performance on smell tests. (University of Pennsylvania researchers are probably fairly clued-up on this subject ? they designed the University of Pennsylvania Smell Identification Test (UPSIT) which is the standard test used in almost all experiments.) …]
Smell-sensitivity researchers have to be very careful about the odours they use in experiments, because a smell is not always a smell. Many odorous substances activate not only the olfactory system but also the ?somatosensory? system -the nerve endings in our noses which are sensitive to temperature, pain etc. This is why ?anosmics? ? patients who have completely lost their sense of smell ? can still detect menthol, phenylethyl alcohol and many other substances. In a study testing anosmics? ability to perceive odorous substances, it was found that many so-called odours are in fact affecting the pain- and temperature-sensitive nerve-endings, rather than the olfactory receptors. Out of 47 ?odorous? substances, anosmics could detect 45. (Only two substances could not be detected by the anosmic patients: these were decanoic acid and vanillin, which affect only the olfactory receptors, and can thus safely be classified as ?pure? odours.) Some unpleasant ?smells? do more than just annoy or disgust us, they actually cause us pain. Children
Although smell-identification ability increases during childhood, even newborn infants are highly sensitive to some important smells: recent research shows that newborn babies locate their mothers? nipples by smell. In experiments, one breast of each participating mother was washed immediately after the birth. The newborn baby was then placed between the breasts. Of 30 infants, 22 spontaneously selected the unwashed breast. Source: Kate Fox, Social Issues Research Centre http://www.sirc.org/publik/smell.pdf
Let me just say, in regards to naturals and synthetics, there’s yellow ochre, and there’s fluorescent yellow. Yellow ochre is a natural mineral color found in most silts around the world and was used in cave paintings. It’s as yellow as you can get in the natural world, in a natural setting. It’s YELLOW! For hundreds of thousans of aeons, Yellow Ochre was YELLOW.
Fluorescent yellow? Is fluorescent yellow. Is yellow treated with any number of substances that reflect UV light - making this yellow WAY YELLOWER, and way more excitingly YELLOOWWWWW to your human eyes. It makes bicyclists YELLOW at night, and teenagers everywhere visible under blacklights and glowsticks.
So, too, pheromones, synthetic pheromones in this case, can possibly be the FLUORESCENT YELLOW of our fragrant bodies.
Yes, arguably, deep sea creatures and minerals like fluorite fluoresce naturally, but my metaphor speaks to yellows that humans use. Ancient man wasn’t trolling the deep sea for phosphorescing anglerfish… though… wait… he probably saw algal bloom amongst the coasts, which is also phosphorescent. But in a blue-green spectrum. Ok. No, yellow still makes sense, as I’m not sure early man was exposed to huge swaths of fluorescent yellow. Just checking my thinking. Carry on. Interesting notes about why fluorescent articles work.
I noticed he gets like that when he’s on a roll, lol. Go go go, monesmadedoit!
I prefer always to post links when I mention science content. Sometimes links contain sensitive material, and I cannot in good conscience post them. It would simply lead to disruptive and unfortunate consequences. However, after careful thought, I’m sending Brian some “cutting edge” research. I try very hard to differentiate my personal opinion or results from objective fact/research. Not to disrupt this thread, but, I hope after reading the material, Androtics will consider reviving the concept below. Important work is being done in the area of “putative steroid pheromone molecules,” for lack of a better term, and their effect on memory, cognition, etc. I believe this is the essence of the “fallout” concept, but evidence so far remains murky.
So… Yet another thing to add. And this may seem like just plain good sense (note I specify good sense not common sense because good sense isn’t common anymore.) but yet another reason she may NOT react or anyone for that matter. They may have a cold. This is especially good to keep in mind during the cold and flu season. The only reason I mention it is that I havent seen any posts that mention it. Yes it’s something that should be “ehhem” plain as the nose on your face. But today someone I have seen several times a week for the last 9 or so months for the first time noticed I have long hair. Thus it is fair to say that sometimes people can miss the painfully obvious.
I wasn’t noticing self effects the other day nor did I feel stuffed up. I had done some blacksmithing the day before and figured I should blow the junk out my nose (smoke from the forge etc) once I did I caught a whif of the IS I had put on. Immediately I thought you know there has to be people out there that for whatever reason missed this obvious connection. Given the location of the VNO (inside the nose) it can and does get clogged and covered even when your breathing feels clear.
So for what it’s worth… Blow your effing nose every now and again. And be mindful that during Cold and flu season and also allergy season come to think of it are times of year where you are likely to experience fewer and/or less profound hits.
Actually now that I think about it that’s a legit question. Do you think girls would see that as a turn on? Seems like a real manly activity. So it could play into the whole alpha male thing.
How would you recommend playing that off? Just curious.
Bequeath: verb.
to leave or give by will after ones death.
I appreciate the thought but certainly don’t wish you an early demise.
And yes I realize that that comment in all likelihood just cost me all the proffered “man points” and then some. As any intelligent man should know better than to correct a woman. It was just too funny an opportunity to pass up.
