amazing supplement to help with your phero-adventures...

Now im not sure if I could have posted this in the mens phero advice tips and tricks but just in case ill post it here, please keep an open mind this can help a lot.

Supplements and nutrition is what I’m studying and intend to make a career at some point and a supplement I came across in research and testing that is for all intensive purposes amazing is Phenibut.
Sparing alot of technical jargon it is a naturally occurring metabolite of the neurotransmitter GABA, so no need to worry that this would be an illicit substance and wont cause a failed drug test (trust me from my own experience).

Now what makes this so special, you may ask? At relatively small doses and inexpensive it has multiple positive effects that can help put you in the proper mindset for testing pheros. First, it helps provide an increase in one’s mood and just makes you feel good. Second, it provides an anxiety-reducing effect, although not as strong as a narcotic it is noticeable. Third, it actually improves brain functioning. Sound to good to be true, I’m not finished lol it also synergistically works with alcohol to make you feel a little drunker than normal so be careful but can save some money. Now if taken after about 5 pm it also improves sleep and from firsthand experience it helps make the next day feel like the best day ever when you wake up.

Now for the information needed, dosage should be in the .5-1.5 gram so between 1/8-1/4 tsp. if too much can cause hangover type effects the next day. Taste is very bitter, but if taken similarly to a shot should be no problem. Cost, less than 50 cents a gram when purchased as a powder. Where to obtain, the best is www.nutraplanet.com. Where to find non-sponsored reviews to help your decision, www.erowid.org and www.1fast400.com.

Now I dont want anyone to think I’m just trying to advertise these sites to improve sales or anything, I just know how well this works and would like to help others. It has helped alot of my friends

A metabolite of GABA? So basically you’re advocating taking a supplement that is essentially an anti-epileptic drug?

Sorry…but that does not sound like something to recommend people do without getting medical advice from a doctor…

And just HOW is this supposed to help us with the phero’s?

gaba isnt specifically an anti-eppileptic drug. its the most abundant inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it main purposes include regulating neuronal excitement throughout the nervous system and helps regulate muscle tone (not appearing in shape, but the preparedness of muscles to react to stimuli). GABA is not even necessarily a drug, its listed as a nutritional supplement so that a doctor script is not needed and primary uses of supplementation in nutrtitional communities is for improving sleep. can be purchased from www.1fast400.com, and from experience and research it does help with deeper sleep.

so consulting a doctor is not necessarily needed, just proper research. now as far as the anti-epileptic fears that you expressed, those drugs tend to act partially on GABA as well as many other factors to help that. but, in and of themselves are not the neurotransmitter GABA, taking it as a supplement would more than likely provide no relief for epileptic seizures. just misunderstanding i suppose

how phenibut would help with pheros is not necessarily a direct effect in improving pheromone function or diffusion, but with the effects that it provides would help those with approach or social anxiety overcome such fears and provide a general improvement in mood. both of which would be good for initiating contact and would help in portraying the right image or mood to prospective hits.

so maybe i overstated it slightly, and that was my bad. but it could provide to be very helpful for some others. and i did provide sites for reviews

Oh, I know what GABA is and what it isn’t :wink: (if you want a hint as to why I say that…look at my profile)

I don’t believe most people can or will do “proper research” as you put it though… Try reading scientific papers with little or no science/medical background and you give up pretty soon…So I don’t agree there’s no need to get a medical opinion…

One of the best websites you listed (nutraplanet) had in their explanation of the product cut & pasted form Wikipedia amongst other sources…And the papers they cited…well, you could only see that there were numbers that referred to a reference…but there were no actual journal articles or details of them to be found…

Wow, just wow. Claps.

Dude, you better start doggie paddlin’ cause you’re out in the deep water now.

I don’t know how much time you’ve spent online since you signed on but… Well, truth is you are in the company of several hundred of this planet’s extraordinary intellects.

Some caution might be advised in the way you present your ideas. Especially biochemistry. If you are going to present anything as a statement of fact, you probably want to have your references, footnotes, bibliography, contraindications, etc., close at hand. Now I don’t mean to discourage you in the least from expressing your ideas or from sharing your information and experiences. What I am suggesting is that you consider presenting things as a question or a request for information or with the caveat that this is anecdotal evidence. But if you do choose the direct statement route, be prepared and whatever happens, stand your ground.

For those of you not familiar with the Erowid website, it is one of the largest sites on the web for mycological hallucingens, magic mushrooms. And there are a hell of a lot of magic mushroom sites. One of the reasons why it is among the largest is that they post everything they can get their hands on. Without a lot of crosschecking. They have extensive knowledge, experience, and infomation on the commonly used hallucinogenic mushrooms. A few of the less common varieties that they list as hallucinagenic are considered by some sources to be strongly poisonous. Get a second opinion.

Better yet, stay with portabellas.

I thought to myself, Our friend Xiphoid, as brilliant and beautiful as she is, is also sometimes a little quick on the draw with the skepticisim. We’re out here in the middle of weird science which can be easily stifled by the skepticisim of mainstream science. And what the hell, it’s a mushroom site. So i guess I’ll check this out.

The best thing that came from all of this that I found some brand new sections of the Erowid site.

Fascinateing stuff but for those of you who are easily bored, the last three paragraphs of the next post tell most of the story.

From IFast400:

I tried using 3- 5 grams of this stuff for about a week. My sleep didn’t improve and I did not wake up alert. It smells and tastes awful too. I would highly recommend purchasing some IMODIUM AD with this. Your going to need it!

From Erowid:

GABA was recommended by an enlightened MD who was assisting in getting me off Ativan. I was taking Ativan to relieve anxiety and as a sleep aid, I developed tinnitus and ongoing lethergy while using Ativan, and never would have gone on the stuff if someone had also mentioned the nasty addiction/withdrawal element.

Anyway, per his recommendation, I was taking up to 3 grams of powdered GABA (NOW Food brand) per day, sublingually, generally in 3 divided doses.

I have found it quit efficacious and was so glad to have it during the withdrawal process. In small doses, it has a nice calming effect, while in large doses, it can really provoke a nap.

Minor side effects:
-Consuming a large dose can cause a tightness of the chest and shortness of breathe. This is transient, perhaps lasting a couple of minutes, but it is somewhat disturbing to the uninitiated.

-Large doses will put me to sleep, which is fine at bedtime, but not such a hot thing in the middle of the day.

Major side effects:

I haven’t found this side effect anywhere in the literature, and my doctor had never heard of it: if I consume it for multiple days in a row, it seems to impair stomach function in some manner. The result is gas, but not just garden-variety gas, but Satanic Gas from Hell. It smelled like I shit my pants, with a lingering odor which infused my clothes. It’s the kind of gas where one offends onself. Close friends come in the room and say with a voice of loving concern: ‘Did you shit your pants?’ This side effect is show-stoppingly embarrassing to say the least. It may also be accompanied by a pain in the stomach. I’m concerned that this means my digestion is being impaired to the point where I’m not deriving nutrition from food, and I’m also concerned it is tearing up my stomach in some significant way.

Pepto-Bismol was useful for shutting down this particular problem.

My doc has never heard of this problem before and could not explain it, nor could the manufacturer.

Too bad, I really like GABA and have found it most helpful! Now I only take small doses on occasion, never for sustained periods of time.

More Erowid:

GABA (gamma-amino-butyric acid) is an extensively studied, though poorly understood neurotransmitter found primarily in the limbic system deep inside the brain. Scientists say that it is an ‘inhibitory’ chemical, which essentially means it can act as a Central Nervous System Depressent. Drugs including alcohol, benzodiazepines (Xanax, Valium), and barbiturates (Phenobarbital, Sodium Pentothal) dramatically potentiate this transmitter in different ways. In any case, we’ll come back to science later. For now, I’ll describe some experiments with GABA itself.

GABA is sold as a dietary supplement, mainly as a performance enhancer. Although GABA is inhibitory, it stimulates the production of HGH, or Human Growth Hormone. Frankly, I think it’s quite useless to take GABA tablets for any reason. They won’t get me high, and they probably don’t make me any bigger. The reason for this ineffectiveness is that it is extensively broken down by the GI tract, and that which is not broken down has difficulty crossing the blood/brain barrier. After thinking about this, I wanted to find out if GABA has any recreational or therapeutic value by other routes of administration, as it would seem that a more direct route like epithelial absorption (this is route by which dip and Salvia quids work) may yield measurable effects. I conducted several experiments under different conditions. The methods of administration I tried were: insufflation (snorting), sublingual absorption (what I just described), and inhalation of vaporized GABA. I did all three experiments completely sober, in combination with alcohol, and in combination with alprazolam (Xanax). Each individual experiment was performed on a different day.

Before I continue, I must emphasize that I have extensive training in Pharmacology, Neurobiology, and Biochemistry (ie, working on graduate degrees) and it was still quite stupid for me to use myself as a Guinea Pig.

Erowid continued:

I don’t know why this thing won’t let me post the rest of it. I’ll get back to you later with more details.

well it is unfortunate that this has gotten away from the original intent and that was about phenibut, but since it has gone this way i suppose ill save that for after…

gaba and sleep, http://www.adaa.org/AboutADAA/newsletter/sleep.pdf , Relaxation and immunity enhancement effects of gam…[Biofactors. 2006] - PubMed Result , although that deals more with helping to relax would suggest based off other reading that the relaxationa and calming of the brain leads to deeper sleep. now as far as the reviews go, for the most part they are very positive and some of the negative ones are do to the wrong expectations it wont really knock you out like ambien, but once asleep puts you in a deeper sleep. now we can go back n forth u picking negative ones and me picking some of the positives. but thats beside the point. there are those who noticed the increased vividness of there dreams and waking up more rested, this is very similar to zma (which is just zinc, magnesium, and vitamin b6) which is said to improve testosterone production. but, moreso it just provides some of the minerals that the body needs to function and produce it well. u see more benefits from taking it before bed and getting a deeper sleep which might produce statistically insignificant improvement in testosterone. i can attest to the fact that i have very vivid and memorable dreams on both of these supplements, so i know that it does something along those lines. but not necessarily for everyone

some of those reviews are similar to the people who come on here expecting too much from pheros and then saying they dont work when used improperly or with wrong expectations.

now getting back to my original point about phenibut, and in explaining what it was xiphoid took one part of that and ran with it to put us on this straight gaba tangent. it is unfortunate that i am not completely privy to all of the medical journals and experiments that have been done on phenibut but this link provides alot of information with proper citations in the footnotes to 30 or so related studies and peer-reviewed journal articles, Phenibut Supplement Profile , now i dont have all of these but they have been properly documented and most should be able to be located on the interweb. on the same site they have reviews of the supplement, although i dont recommend there product because of some apparent change they have made so it is less effective and that is why there have been a slew of more recent negative reviews. erowid also has it, but it does not rate as highly as illicit substances because it is not a narcotic, which is why it is promising its legal for anyone to use unlike even alcohol.

i understand the skepticism, but blanket statements like xiphoid’s “Oh, I know what GABA is and what it isn’t” if you havent tried it then cant necessarily say such things. i have, and i have seen what it can do, but we’re just splitting hairs

You’ve got nerve and a even hand. Nicely done. Xiph, it looks like you might have a dance partner.

The reason that I posted the reviews of GABA is that at both sites, IFast400 and Erowid, I did not find reports on Phenibut. It was however described as GABA with phenyl group. I did find anecdotal reports of GABA on both sites.

Surfing Erowid was an eyeopener. As you might have guessed, I am passionate about mushrooms but I ignore the hallucinogenic group in my avocation. As a result it has been several years scince I actually visited the Erowid site. Now I know why they are so big and so heavly trafficed (according to Alexa). They catalog the anocdotal experiences of anyone who wishes to contribute their experience with any mental or phsyical ‘performance enhancing’ substance, including of course the hallucinogens they originally began with. As you can see from the posts, some of these are from some very knowledgable people. They were originally famous for the postings of Terrance McKenna, our modern day Aldous Huxley.

Phenibut is little more than I want to try. But, I am very interested in ZMA because I am currently interested in dream work. A little more difficult for me than most people since my normal sleep cycle is 4-6 hours. Conventional wisdom is that does not allow deep enough sleep for vivid dreams. Being a mineral suppliment I would feel safe using it. And I have room for a little more testosterone. Any good ideas for ZMA sources?

just as a source for phenibut on erowid, Erowid Experience Vaults: Smarts - Phenibut (also beta-phenyl-GABA) Main Index

as far as zma goes though, you wanna hit about 400-500 mg. of magnesium, 20-40 mg. of zinc, and around 10-15 mg. of b6 (this is not a must for the sleep improvement, but comes standard in zma products). 1Fast400 ZMA is a very good one that i have tried and for about $16 or $21 shipped provides about two months of use, also it does provide reviews of those who have tried this specific product and most found very useful.

very important, start with 1 pill for like 2 days then 2 pills for 2 days before going to full dosage. the reason for this (without getting too graphic), is the magnesium if u go to full dosage too fast it will cause you too wake up and sprint to the restroom because your body is not accustomed to it. but, dont let that scare you just work up a little and those vivid dreams will come full force. its pretty fun/sweet

Wow, I need to hang out here in the lounge more often, things get a bit lively here!

Xiphoid - as per your suggestion, checked out your profile, a kickboxing doctor? Mildly conflicting interests aside, I’m impressed!

OoohYahhh - Are you perhaps pursuing Lucid Dreaming? I’ve done some research on that myself, interesting stuff, too bad I’ve recently become a major insomniac. Stress does that.

I’ve found major kudos being given to a substance called 5-HTP. It’s supposed to ease stress, improve sleep, increase seratonin levels. I was interested in it as a natural aid for my sleep apnea. I bought some (Wal-Mart, $8, $25 cheaper than the health food store) but I have yet to try it. I’m a bit worried that it may react badly with my bipolar. St. John’s Wort did BAD things to me and I’m wary of things like that now. Maybe Xiphoid can input some suggestions?

Anyway, for those of you that were interested in the Phenibut but found yourself wary about the controversy, 5-HTP may be a safer alternative.

Either that or L-Theanine.

Guess it’s all in what you’re used to. A kickboxing doctor does not seem all that unusual to me. I once lived down the road from an excellent chiropractor who was also a ninja sensi. I was working as a machinist and sharpening part time (a family tradition) He and his dojo considered me their armorer for some time. Great chiropractor. Every little old lady in town loved him. He did wonders for my horse.

Just a wildass guess, but if you had a problem with St John’s wort, then you are probably taking an antidepressant that is one of the class of serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI). Except for a direct allergic reaction, that’s about the only way you get in trouble with St John’s wort. If that is the case then you don’t want more tryptophan (Erowid Tryptophan Vault : Info #3) which is the precursor to 5-HTP which is the direct precursor to serotonin. (Erowid Tryptophan Vault) See where this is headed? More serotonin than your body can process. For you it is probly safer to stay with natural sources of tryptophan, like have a turkey and cheese sandwich and glass of milk before bed.

Phenibut uses an entirely different mechanism. (follow the earlier links) Except for interaction with other drugs, it seems to be remarkably safe, with very limited side effects. It not used as an anticonvulsant. (for epileptic seizures) It does however potentiate (strengthen) the effects of quite a few drugs, including alcohol and anticonvulsants.

I might try lucid dreaming someday. Right now, vivid dreaming is a little beyond me. I’m still working on remembering my dreams. Only in the last few days have I been able to remember and record my dreams. Just that much has taken me months. In years past I was doing something in my dreams that was better if I did not know it in this world. That work is over, but it is difficult take out the insulation and partitions I had in there. But I am commited to dream work as a part of my better man program. I have faith that it will work out. So I ordered the ZMA.

What the hell is L-theanine? I didn’t find anything on Erowid. Got references?

L-Theanine information from Drugs.com

L-Theanine is an amino acid. It’s in green tea. It’s very effective for relieving anxiety and depression as it crosses the blood-brain barrier. If you like the effects you got from GABA, (without drowsiness and the intestinal distress :wink:), you may be interested in trying this, Mushroom Man. I’ve used it off and on for the last five years. I take 200mg (Source Naturals) first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with water…at least 30 minutes before ingesting anything. You can take it anytime your tummy is empty. As with all amino acids avoid taking them with milk as that’ll interfere with too many other different amino acids competing for absorption.

Be aware that these supplements are not recommended for people who are already taking antidepressant drugs such as MAOI’s or SSRI’s. I’d say if you want to try them in lieu of more conventional anti-depressant or anxiety meds you should consult with your doctor first as to how to get off them and then start the supplements.

I found this article…don’t know if it’s scientific enough for y’all but from other articles/studies I’ve read over the last few years, it sounds about right to me. So, take it for what it’s worth. :slight_smile:

L-Theanine Unique Anxiety Reducer and Mood Enhancer Increases Alpha Waves and Alertness

Bella

Hit the nail on the head Bella. You especially don’t want to mix 5-HTP with Prozac as it’ll overload you with serotonin and well, that in the end is NOT a good thing.

I take NOW Mood Support and it has made me feel pretty nice in the mental mood department. It contains St. John’s Wort, 5-HTP GABA, and L-Theanine besides Valerian and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Oh, I like this! - Tea and Mushrooms. - Yeehaa!

What is L-Theanine used for?

Traditional/Ethnobotanical uses
Second only to water, tea is one of the most widely consumed beverages in the world. With the exception of a mushroom (eg, Xerocomus badius) and certain species belonging to genus Camellia (C. japonica and C. sasanqua), L-theanine is a unique amino acid found only in the tea plant. L-theanine was discovered in 1949 to be a constituent of tea leaves. Taiyo Kagaku Co. Ltd., Japan, has developed an enzymatic method to manufacture synthetic L-theanine (Suntheanine).
L-theanine was approved in Japan in 1964 for unlimited use in all foods (including chocolates, soft drinks, herb teas), except infant foods. It also provides a unique umami (brothy or savory) taste and flavor to green tea infusion. L-theanine has been used in cosmetics to moisturize the skin.
L-theanine may help relieve stress by inducing a relaxing effect without drowsiness. L-theanine as been shown to promote the generation of alpha-brain waves, an index of relaxation. It may also boost natural resistance to microbial infections and perhaps even tumors. Researchers suggest further isolating and refining L-theanine from tea to use it as a drug to boost the infection defense of the body. Although limited, there is clinical evidence to support these claims.
What is the dosage of L-Theanine?

Based on the alpha-wave study, a dose of 50 to 200 mg may provide a relaxation effect. No dosage of L-theanine is suggested for enhanced immune system functioning; however, volunteers in a pilot study consumed approximately 600 mL of tea a day.
Is L-Theanine safe?

Contraindications
Avoid use in patients with known hypersensitivity reactions to L-theanine.
Pregnancy/nursing
Information regarding safety and efficacy in pregnancy and lactation is lacking.
Interactions
None well documented.
Side Effects
L-theanine is enzymatically synthesized by Taiyo Kagaku Co. Ltd., Japan and is extensively marketed in over 50 food products (eg, chocolate, soft drinks, herb teas) in Japan. Thus far, it has not resulted in any reported adverse reactions.
Toxicities
Tests fail to reveal any toxicities with L-theanine.

And umami too!

Hundreds of studies exist showing the many health benefits of green tea. But what makes it the most consumed beverage in the world after water is its pleasant taste and relaxation effect. Both of these qualities—and more—can be traced to a unique, neurologically-active amino acid in tea called L-theanine (gamma-ethylamino-L-glutamic acid).
L-theanine is a free (non-protein) amino acid found almost exclusively in tea plants (Camellia sp.), constituting between 1 and 2-percent of the dry weight of tea leaves. It is the predominant amino acid in green tea leaves, giving tea its characteristic umami or “5th taste” (besides the four traditional tastes: sweet, salty, acid, and bitter). Attempts to isolate the L-theanine, with its physical and neurological benefits, from the tea leaves were once difficult, expensive, and inefficient. Economically feasible methods of producing the identical L-theanine now exist and do not require a mountain of tea leaves.
Physiological Effects
The calming effect of green tea may seem contradictory to the stimulatory property of tea’s caffeine content but it can be explained by the action of L-theanine. This amino acid actually acts antagonistically against the stimulatory effects of caffeine on the nervous system. (1) Research on human volunteers has demonstrated that L-theanine creates a sense of relaxation in approximately 30-40 minutes after ingestion via at least two different mechanisms. First, this amino acid directly stimulates the production of alpha brain waves, creating a state of deep relaxation and mental alertness similar to what is achieved through meditation. Second, L-theanine is involved in the formation of the inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma amino butyric acid (GABA). GABA influences the levels of two other neurotransmitters, dopamine and serotonin, producing the key relaxation effect. (2)

…

OK lessee, 1 to 2% by weight, to get a 200mg dose is errraahhhh which is 10 to 20 grams, I think. Somebody check me on that. An 8 cup pot of tea takes 2-5 grams of loose tea. That would take alot of tea, even for me. One stout 8 cup pot of strong tea would mellow Attila the Hun. Odd that about 1/4 the dosage in the natural compound could have such a profound effect. Or is like so many other things where the matrix of natural compounds enhances the effect?

Enhanced alpha waves. Hmmmm? Better meditation through chemistry. And vitually no side effects or toxcicty?

Count me in for some that.

OK And then there’s the mushroom. This a member of the genus boletus, A whole family of realativly common edible musrooms. The one we are most familiar with is the porcini, used widely in Italian cuisine.

L-theanine is attributed only to the species boletus badius, but it would be suprising if it was not present in at least some of the other members of the genus.

Description

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Xerocomus_badius_2008.JPG/180px-Xerocomus_badius_2008.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png
A small, young specimen.

Boletus badius derives its common name (The Bay Boletus) from the bay or chestnut coloured cap, which is almost spherical in young specimens before broadening and flattening out to 18 cm (7 in). The pores are cream to pale yellow, but stain blue when bruised or cut. The flesh is white and stains pale blue. The stem is up to 12.5 cm (5 in) and similar in colour to the cap but paler. It appears less affected by maggots than other boletes.

Distribution and habitat

The Bay Bolete is common in mixed woodlands in Europe and North America from Eastern Canada west to Minnesota and south to North Carolina in autumn

OhhhYahhh

Actually, the only thing that I am taking for my bipolar is Lithium, anyone know how that affects seratonin levels?

The only other meds I take are omeprazol (GERD) and a multivitamin.

I’m going to do more research on the various supplements that have been listed.

If I remember correctly, I tried the St. John’s during a (VERY bad) time when I didn’t have insurance and couldn’t get lithium. The lithium I take now is an herbal supplement type as I still haven’t found a psychiatrist I trust in the area to get a prescription for Eskalith (prescription grade lithium carbonate). I was also on Effexor before, which is supposed to “enhance” the Eskalith, and it worked, but due to the massive withdrawal symptoms I suffered from I hope to never be on it again.

I’ve been on so many “drug cocktails” before, mainly due to the various doctors not believing I had bipolar or not familiar enough with the symptoms to recognize them that it’s a wonder I’m still alive. Bipolar is one of the most misunderstood psychiatric conditions in the world, I feel. Everyone either put me on straight antidepressants, which threw me in a manic overload and anxiety attacks, or “calmers” which threw me into depression. The really fun ones were when they gave me BOTH, which resulted in a roller coaster ride from hell. I was very relieved to find a doctor that not only knew about bipolar, he WAS bipolar and was very successful with the treatment, but then I moved and I’m trying to find another good doctor.