Approach Invitations

[Chas]

I’m sure this newbie’s opinion doesn’t count for much, but…

A lot of the things discussed in terms of PU (which I am just as new to as I am with pheromones), might be misunderstood and taken out of context. I’ve began to read the things on ASF, and to be honest, a lot of it is quite revolting to me. But the truth is,

1. I do learn a lot from it, even if I don’t agree with or would not use it. Some things like AI may seem obvious to a lot of you, but for some it simply needs to be stated, and is just as good of a tool as using phermones.
2. I’ve seen quite a few of these PUA-types…I even lived with one for a semester. I can’t stand them, I find them to be creeps, and I’d hope any self-respecting woman wouldn’t fall for their games (albeit understandingly futile as I’m sure it is difficult to differentiate between a genuinely interesting and personally harmonious man and a simple “player”). Despite this, the way to fight them is to know their “game”, and develop tactics to fight it. The way to learn their beliefs, attitudes, and strategies, is to use tools like ASF.

Sorry for the long post. I hope I haven’t offended anyone, as this has become a great resource for me, and I look forward to continued contributions and enjoyment of this website.

Chas

[MarkL]

@PheroQuirk

Mark - always enjoy reading your posts. You seem to be unusually socially skilled, and I don’t know whether you acquired that as a child or much later.

Over the past three years I have introduced a few people to pheromones (all guys) and I do think that the biggest sticking point to appreciating the benefit and being able to capitalise on the broader set of opportunities tha present themselves results from poor recognition of social dyamics and in particular of openness to approach.

Pedantically speaking, is this related to pheromones? Not at all. But I think for many (most?) guys, this is one thing that is probably more important to get right than whether one wears Instant Openness or Come Talk To Me Mix 2 in a social mix!

Thanks for the warm thoughts and kind words; I think that everyone is agreed that the capability to read social cues leverages an investment in pheromone usage. Perhaps the orignal note on Approach Invitations was no more and no less than a reminder of that.

But I’m also hoping that somehow we get beyond the more obvious assertions about pheromone usage and how we observe responses. We are the pioneers carving out this trail, and I wonder how much mental energy and awe we can invest in the most fundamental aspect of pheromonal dynamics: people notice (us) when we wear pheros. And they signal to us that they notice us. Apparently they cannot help doing so.

Are AI’s materially more frequent when wearing pheros? Do we just have a reason to notice the AI’s that were always there because we’re more observant when wearing pheros?

But more important to me – is there a difference in AIs when we wear pheros? In the quality or intensity or … ???

I am very glad to see links here to other sites on social skills, mental models, etc. etc. For example, I enjoyed seeing what the alpha-male forum that Gem and Dakota mentioned had to offer. But maybe (probably) a lengthy tutorial on non-phero stuff like AIs should be in the lounge, or the theory sub-forum … or maybe the forum Admins will create a sub-forum specifically for social awareness and dynamics threads, just as there is a “theory” forum for chemical messenger molecules.

Or maybe it should be on a seduction / social skills forum with links to there from here.

---

Recap: to me a thread that’s just about AI’s in the Men’s Phero forum is actually off-topic; I don’t want to discourage that kind of post, but it is not what I expect to find in the Men’s Phero forum. With just a little bit of “here’s my experience with AIs and pheros” this thread becomes a powerhouse resource; as it stands, it’s “all talk and no action” – speculative.

Still, I’m very glad you posted this thread, because it’s brought up a mass of other issues – so thank you, fella.

[BikerAngel777]

[quote=“Gem, post:14, topic:1221”]

Ail,

I am sorry you feel this way. I suspect there is more at play here than a simple moral objection to the seduction community. What I don’t want is to see you driven away or made to feel uncomfortable in a place you feel at home. I understand that an influx of new people can be daunting especially if they do not share your views - I do not however understand how what has been posted on the forums so far can make you feel this victimized

Observe: The Wolf (in sheep’s clothing) is attempting to be understanding, friendly, an all around nice guy…but watch as the wool starts to wear thin… wait for it…

We have had numerous PM exchanges, in which I have tried to assure you that I hold no personal negitive feelings towards you however I do disagree with your view on a subject that I am very passionate about. I have also reassured you numerous times that while I don’t agree with your opinion, I do respect the fact that you are entitled to it and certainly have a high personal admiration for the fact you are willing to air it. The childish insults I have recieved in reply aside I thought you confirmed to me that you understood this? - these are PM conversations that I am more than willing (given your permission) to post publically in their entirety for the board to inspect - if you would rather I didn’t for any reason please let me know.

And the wool quickly unravels…

The fact is that there are PUAs and people who believe in PUA on tis board and we are as entitled to our opinion as you are to yours. All the post concerning PUA topics that I have seen have been confined to posts that are clearly about PU. for “neil strauss the game” and this one - after reading the first few lines of this you should have been well aware of the direction it would take - what complelled you to keep reading? There is a simple solution to this - Don’t read the threads that are about Pick Up.

Or better still, put your personal settings so that posts by people you know believe in the PU community are not displayed (ignore member).

If I am still missing something Ail please let me know either on post or off and hopefully we can discuss this and come to an agreement.

Revealing the monster within…

=============================

I don’t give a fart about reading any PMs you may or may not have… But, thank you for showing ur true colors – much appreciated.

MtnJim – you are a Prince…got nothing but love for ya baby!

The Lady Ail is tried and true… 'NUFF SAID.

BA777

[MarkL]

@BikerAngel777

Observe: The Wolf (in sheep’s clothing) is attempting to be understanding, friendly, an all around nice guy…but watch as the wool starts to wear thin… wait for it…

And the wool quickly unravels…

Revealing the monster within…

=============================

I don’t give a fart about reading any PMs you may or may not have… But, thank you for showing ur true colors – much appreciated.

MtnJim – you are a Prince…got nothing but love for ya baby!

The Lady Ail is tried and true… 'NUFF SAID.

BA777

BA, that’s certainly one way of reading Gem’s post; are you quite certain that’s the only way?

POSTSCRIPT: I had to laugh: in one day, this post garnered one positive and one negative “reputation point”. In some situations, everything DOES balance out!

[Gem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7VbsqWuWg)

[Phoenix]

I love to read Shelly McMurtry’s First In Her Mind. Yes, it’s written by a woman.
I think reading this can be a very reasonable way to (learn to) improve yourself, rather than a way of trying to appear as something which you aren’t. She talks about relationships, what to avoid in the other persons you date (red flags) etc..

Also recently I began to read Leil Lownes’ Undercover Sex Signals. It’s really all about women’s body language and how we can understand it better.

[Richelieu]

@Phoenix

I love to read Shelly McMurtry’s First In Her Mind. Yes, it’s written by a woman.
I think reading this can be a very reasonable way to (learn to) improve yourself, rather than a way of trying to appear as something which you aren’t. She talks about relationships, what to avoid in the other persons you date (red flags) etc..

Also recently I began to read Leil Lownes’ Undercover Sex Signals. It’s really all about women’s body language and how we can understand it better.

I have read love signals and another book on bodylanguage though I cant remember the name of it now, how do you rate Undercover sex signals Phoenix?

[thenoser]

@Phoenix

I love to read Shelly McMurtry’s First In Her Mind. Yes, it’s written by a woman.
I think reading this can be a very reasonable way to (learn to) improve yourself, rather than a way of trying to appear as something which you aren’t. She talks about relationships, what to avoid in the other persons you date (red flags) etc..

Also recently I began to read Leil Lownes’ Undercover Sex Signals. It’s really all about women’s body language and how we can understand it better.

these sound interesting. i could not find the mcmurtry book on amazon. i found and just purchased a few of lowndes’ books. thanks for posting these.

[Phoenix]

@thenoser

these sound interesting. i could not find the mcmurtry book on amazon. i found and just purchased a few of lowndes’ books. thanks for posting these.

McMurtry’s an ebook not a book. You’ll have to google for it. She’s got good stuff which I recommend. It isn’t really pickup material in a way but more on how to avoid disastrous relationships (advice on avoiding an eventual divorce/separation is useful I think!) from the start.

Lowndes’ books are good, I agree. I’ve got the “How to talk to anyone” book, also. That’s a good one too, very practical. For instance don’t go to a party and start eating, or you’ll miss opportunities for chit-chat… Start talking, then eat afterwards.

[Richelieu]

@Phoenix

McMurtry’s an ebook not a book. You’ll have to google for it. She’s got good stuff which I recommend. It isn’t really pickup material in a way but more on how to avoid disastrous relationships (advice on avoiding an eventual divorce/separation is useful I think!) from the start.

Lowndes’ books are good, I agree. I’ve got the “How to talk to anyone” book, also. That’s a good one too, very practical. For instance don’t go to a party and start eating, or you’ll miss opportunities for chit-chat… Start talking, then eat afterwards.

Thank you for the recommendations!

[tacitus]

IMHO… “raw” pick up routines don’t work because they don’t deal with core issues

Core issues can be filed under two major categories:

A. Psychodynamic… in the squeechiest of tiny nuts… how your unconscious or “other than conscious mind”… …**like, the 90% of yourself you are more or less totally unaware of…**was shaped by your family system, your local culture, your early childhood experiences… unless they receive extensive professional counseling or are involved in some kind of self awareness project that is usually strenuous and emotionally uncomfortable , most persons out there have very little idea of their self-image, how others perceive them, or a clear idea of their true strengths and weaknesses… and are therefore on varying degrees of autopilot, taking them to mindlessly preprogrammed destinations… surprisingly, but not surprisingly, my experience is that wealthy people (as in, wealthy enough to avoid any uncomfortable confrontations with the hard outer world in all of its warped glory) are particularly susceptible to these states of personal unreality… and the richer they get, the more unreal they get.. the more they have to be treated like indulged children who may never hear a discouraging word… and on the other end of the spectrum, my experience with the powerless and wealthless is that they have their own forms of neuroses and psychopathologies that are a sort of mirror image of the rich and powerful… before you can even consider some simple minded drivel like “running game” you must have a clear idea of how your circumstances have shaped you… what are the forces that have given you your “self” ???.. what is this mass of inner processes that you call “myself” ??? And how does that bundle of processes interact with another bundle of processes ? The life forces that may strength and deepen one person may turn another person into a seething mass of compensatory fantasies, resentment, or a weird sense of entitlement…

Nothing quite as sobering as watching the Blind Date DVD series, all three DVDs.. for humanity at its’ finest.. or that little jewel of a movie from about five years, Roger Dodger… yup… that’s a must see… might just open your eyes and steer you around a couple of obstacles…

and of course,

B. Economic… who’s picking up the tab for this party ? You may be drenched in colognes and pheromones and dressed to the nines, and as long as you’re in a generous, besotted mood… well… hey… party on and waiter, another bottle of that delicious Louis Roederer Cristal, yeah the 1995 bottling… prettyy puleeeeze… OH boy… Pink Witch Ail loves it when I touch on this theme… but I see what I see from my perch dropping in to some of the better Upper East Side billionaire brat jointz…

It’s not always like that… there could be a long term question hovering in the background… a constant testing whether a committment is in the works or if this is purely a transient thing… lots of women hit the age of 26… seems to be the magic number… and the baby clock starts ticking…

So, dude, will you be the great inseminator or wontcha ? My advice for you young bonerizers… put down some money and get the Ally McBeal television series on DVD.. this is an older show, from the mid nineties… one of the first season shows has her hallucinating a dancing baby with jungle drums in the background… this was an excellent, in some ways groundbreaking “social commentary comedy” that probably got the best take on baby fever yet printed to film… probably can’t get this in PAL format, but youze Amuricinz can order yours from Amazon…

[PheroQuirk]

dealing with core issues?

@tacitus

how your unconscious or “other than conscious mind”… …**like, the 90% of yourself you are more or less totally unaware of…**was shaped by yor family system, your local culture, your early childhood experiences… unless they receive extensive professional counseling or are involved in some kind of self awareness project that is usually strenuous and emotionally uncomfortable

So what works in that domain? Jon Altfeld’s course sounds like a start and maybe Feldenkrais too, but what other interventions should form part of such a project?

]quote]
surprisingly, but not surprisingly, my experience is that wealthy people (as in, wealthy enough to avoid any uncomfortable confrontations with the hard outer world in all of its warped glory) are particularly susceptible to these states of personal unreality… and the richer they get, the more unreal they get.. the more they have to be treated like indulged children who may never hear a discouraging word…

this seems true

[PheroQuirk]

dealing with core issues?

@tacitus

how your unconscious or “other than conscious mind”… …**like, the 90% of yourself you are more or less totally unaware of…**was shaped by yor family system, your local culture, your early childhood experiences… unless they receive extensive professional counseling or are involved in some kind of self awareness project that is usually strenuous and emotionally uncomfortable

So what works in that domain? Jon Altfeld’s course sounds like a start and maybe Feldenkrais too, but what other interventions should form part of such a project?

surprisingly, but not surprisingly, my experience is that wealthy people (as in, wealthy enough to avoid any uncomfortable confrontations with the hard outer world in all of its warped glory) are particularly susceptible to these states of personal unreality… and the richer they get, the more unreal they get.. the more they have to be treated like indulged children who may never hear a discouraging word…

this seems true

[tacitus]

I’ve had great luck with Lloyd Glauberman’s CD set titled “Resilience” wherein he does a hypnotic induction for the first 30 minutes of each CD, then a mind expanding double induction for the second half, he’s telling related but different stories into each ear simultaneously, with certain crossover points where one story switches over into the other story… it’s a deep workout of the conscious-unconscious mind connections… after using this I found my personal style had distinctly loosened up, like a deep connective tissue massage of my thought processes, I felt much freer, more emotionally limber, tuned in… Glauberman does some fine work… just got his Money CD… haven’t heard it yet but it is a 2 CD course with a section of self-sabotage that shoud be interesting… gets the rigidity out. For some reason when I use his stuff, other people seem to find me more interesting or compelling, like memtic pheromones I guess… probably because it makes one less stuffy and mentally constipated.

[PheroQuirk]

@tacitus

I’ve had great luck with Lloyd Glauberman’s CD set titled “Resilience” wherein he does a hypnotic induction for the first 30 minutes of each CD, then a mind expanding double induction for the second half, he’s telling related but different stories into each ear simultaneously, with certain crossover points where one story switches over into the other story… it’s a deep workout of the conscious-unconscious mind connections… after using this I found my personal style had distinctly loosened up, like a deep connective tissue massage of my thought processes, I felt much freer, more emotionally limber, tuned in… Glauberman does some fine work… just got his Money CD… haven’t heard it yet but it is a 2 CD course with a section of self-sabotage that shoud be interesting… gets the rigidity out. For some reason when I use his stuff, other people seem to find me more interesting or compelling, like memtic pheromones I guess… probably because it makes one less stuffy and mentally constipated.

Thank you for this. Fixing self-sabotage was just what I needed to work on next. How many listens before you start to find an impact?

[Richelieu]

@PheroQuirk

Thank you for this. Fixing self-sabotage was just what I needed to work on next. How many listens before you start to find an impact?

me too Pquirk! Where can you get these cds from?

[MarkL]

@PheroQuirk

So what works in that domain? Jon Altfeld’s course sounds like a start and maybe Feldenkrais too, but what other interventions should form part of such a project?

Consider being Rolfed (http://www.rolf.org/) before (or early on with) Feldenkrais. The deep connective tissue manipulation is “corporate therapy” – and it operates on the level that the un-conscious appreciates best: non-verbally and physically.

Rolfing jumpstarts the physical release and rebalancing process; yoga and Feldenkrais keeps the unfolding going and helps prevent developing new “body armor” decompensations.

My ten sessions with a Rolfer – about one a week – resulted in lasting changes and grace that continued to develop and further unfold/release for a few years after the sessions ended. One of the best investments I’ve ever made, I would say.

My series of sessions was over 30 years ago; perhaps it’s getting close to the time when I’d benefit from the 300,000 mile tune-up. The effects are still with me, though, and more bodywork is still fairly low on my priority list.

[tacitus]

Unfortunately… Rolfing has gone down the quality scale pretty terribly since the way it was practiced 30 years ago… I knew and got Rolfed by many of the great Rolfers back then, who were directly supervised by Ida Rolf herself… and Emmet Hutchins was in charge of quality control…as THE senior Rolf Institute trainer… Emmet was just freakin’ incomparably amazing to have a session with… well… you could see this train wreck coming… they got rid of Emmet on some political struggle.. and they started using lubricating oils, because most of the clientele “couldn’t deal with” the sensations of real Rolfing… so I strongly suspect as a profit maximizing rationalization, they began to claim that the new, soft Rolfing was an improvement… like, my ass it was… it was easier on the Rolfer’s hands, and realitive to real, Ida Rolf grade Rolfing it is a lightweight substitute… I can’t work with Rolfers anymore, consider it to be a waste of my time and money…

[MarkL]

@tacitus

Unfortunately… Rolfing has gone down the quality scale pretty terribly since the way it was practiced 30 years ago… I knew and got Rolfed by many of the great Rolfers back then, who were directly supervised by Ida Rolf herself… and Emmet Hutchins was in charge of quality control…as THE senior Rolf Institute trainer… Emmet was just freakin’ incomparably amazing to have a session with… well… you could see this train wreck coming… they got rid of Emmet on some political struggle.. and they started using lubricating oils, because most of the clientele “couldn’t deal with” the sensations of real Rolfing… so I strongly suspect as a profit maximizing rationalization, they began to claim that the new, soft Rolfing was an improvement… like, my ass it was… it was easier on the Rolfer’s hands, and realitive to real, Ida Rolf grade Rolfing it is a lightweight substitute… I can’t work with Rolfers anymore, consider it to be a waste of my time and money…

That’s interesting news, though sad. Rob Ahrens, who trained with Ida is still working in Evanston IL – Rolfed me back when. I suppose I was thinking all along that I could just call him up for a “rematch” if and when I thought I needed it.

[Rbt]

Sorry, but whenever I hear of Rolfing I can’t but help of a large Muppet dog…

Chiropractic underwent a similar “degradation” when they started getting away from the “chiro” (hands) and adopting those silly little spring-loaded thingies for adjustments. Never was the same. Never as good.

Evanston hey? That’s close enough… Hmmmm