Approach Invitations

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

by formhandle
Formhandle Explains AI (Approach Invitation)

> Afterwards though I realised she wanted to speak and take things
> further.
>
> Asked a HB I know about this and she said “I DO IT ALL THE TIME!!!” -
> so chicks stalk guys as well (lol)
> …

Yeah, I call this the “Approach Invitation” (AI), it’s not really
“stalking”. I mentioned a while back that I would post about it. I
guess I forgot to. Here it is.

First, to differentiate, there is a big difference between AI and
peacocking. One is for attracting the attention of a specific guy, the
other is to attract the attention of as many guys as possible.

When out doing PU with wings one day, I realized something that just
makes total sense and field-tested it many times since then. I
remembered something I heard once that chicks sometimes think they’ve
been “approaching” guys all day long and by the end of the day feel
totally rejected because none of those guys responded. The stupidity of
the situation (chick logic) is that what she thought was an approach,
was so far under the radar of what guys consider a “signal” or “sign”
that none of them have the nerve to approach (unless she’s an HB and
runs into a PUA in which case she’ll get approached, making that PUA
even more unique, and reaffirming the skills we’re all trying to
learn). Chicks will do that kind of “approaching” consciously when
actively looking for a man, but a lot of the time they’ll do the same
exact things UNCONSCIOUSLY when finding a man is a real desire but not
at the forefront of their mind.

OK, let me explain. Say all of a sudden men & women reversed roles and
men still had the same horniness but for some fucked up reason aren’t
allowed to utter a word or be blatant or direct about how they meet &
attract women. Say you’re a PUA and someone told you that you had to go
PU chicks (consciously or unconsciously) without initiating the
conversations, without initiating kino, without the ability to
communicate on those levels unless a chick strikes up a convo with you
first. Also, you’re not allowed to go to bars or clubs to do PU because
there will be conflicts between AI and peacocking (confused signals -
very inefficient). What would you do? Shit, you’re horny as hell,
you’ve got to do something! Well, first you would pick public places to
go that are bound to have lots of people which are constantly recycling,
a place where topics for conversation are plentiful, and places where
interesting and available chicks might go. Then, you would do subtle
things around them which would attempt to get their attention, just
enough to get an initial comment or reaction - your open door. Now you
know what it’s like when chicks are on the “hunt” (again, consciously or
unconsciously). This is how chicks do their PU. It’s a lot like how
AFCs try to do PU. They don’t (LOL) although they think they’re doing
all they can (which they aren’t).

Now that’s explained, roles are now back to what you know them to be…

You’re in a bookstore and an HB walks up and stands near you and at that
moment starts making a fuss to dig through her huge sack called a
“purse” to dig out a scarf and keeps making a lot of commotion to put
the scarf on, fix her hair, whatever. That’s an AI. The beauty of an
AI is that it creates your opener FOR you - you no longer have to
worry about WHAT to say to open with a chick. In that situation, all
you’ve got to say is: “Interesting scarf” or “That’s a huge bag” or
“Hi”. You are 10x more likely to get a positive response from an AI
situation than a cold approach using either a canned opener or coming up
with something interesting while initiating conversation. It could be
ANY number of things to get your attention that in most circumstances
are out of the norm of the normal pace of life. She decides to tie her
sneakers in front of you. She gives you EC and smiles. She asks people
around her stupid questions. She says something really dorky out loud
to her friend, easily overheard by you. She seems to stall in the areas
you’re standing. She starts tapping her fingers on a surface near you.
She drops something near you, pretends to be interested in something
near you, … YOU GET THE POINT!!

Here’s where it gets better (related somewhat to Mystery’s AWARE
state). When you go out to do PU, start off with a couple “warm up” PUs
where the outcome is totally meaningless to you. Yeah, the first couple
of the day tend to be tougher because you’re “cold” and need to “warm
up”. After those 2 are done, you will be in a different mental state, a
state where adrenaline is now circulating your system, you are more
aware of your surroundings, and you can pick out details and notice
things you didn’t notice before. All of a sudden you start to SEE all
these AIs constantly flowing around you. Just pay attention. Then open
on the next AI you see from an HB that interests you. More adrenaline.
More awareness. Better PUs. Better responses. It snowballs. Once you
get on a roll for the day, you’ll find yourself not only approaching
tons more women than you would have before, but most of them give you
good responses, and most of the time your openers are DECIDED FOR YOU!

Now, here’s why I kept mentioning that a lot of the time chicks do this
unconsciously: If they unconsciously give you an AI, they are
unconsciously interested in you in some way but have not yet consciously
noticed you (which is still good!). When you open with their AI, and a
conversation “just happens”, they will start seeing it like it was
“magic” or “meant to be”. That comes from all the trashy romance novels
they read. You have to differentiate quickly between a conscious AI and
an unconscious one so that you can understand the perspective of the
chick who’s giving it (actively being horny/excitable, unconsciously
being romance-oriented).

So, knowing this very small detail about chicks, and knowing all it
takes is just a couple initial “warm up” approaches at the beginning of
a PU session, you have the key to being able to approach dozens of HBs
per day with greater ease than approaching just a few without this
knowledge. It almost gets to the point where you forget what you are
doing consciously and can’t remember (post-PU) how you even opened with
her, you will just remember saying SOMETHING which sparked a
conversation and eventually lead to a #/@ close. I believe that
“naturals” are constantly in this state which is why most of them can’t
teach other guys how to do it. They KNOW how to do it but can’t EXPLAIN
it.

Of course, none of this info really helps you with other skills
(carrying a convo, kino, pacing, leading, closing) but it DOES help you
approach a ton more HBs and not miss opportunities that surround you all
day long. Approaching a ton more HBs will help you build those other
skills faster. As my PUA friend Danny used to always say: “Repetition
builds speed and accuracy.”

*–
jay <formhandle@fastseduction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - Fast Seduction 101: Art of Pick-up and Seduction
Class is now in session…*
Subject: Re: Introduction of a spy
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:26:48 -0400
From: Formhandle <formhandle@fastseduction.com>
Organization: Fast Seduction 101: Art of Pick-up and Seduction
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Rue wrote:

> Greetings. I am a bi chick spying on your newsgroup. It seems to me
> that these methods you speak of might work with girl-girl encounters.
> It seems worth a try in any case. I will report.

That would be interesting, yes.

> A note from the hetro side of my life. So many times I have been
> hanging out with a guy and thinking to myself “How much more obvious
> do I have to make it I want to get in your pants. Make a move, damn
> you”. And they don’t.

That’s understandable, given thet most guys, even when they see a
“signal”, scare themselves away from making a more commited move.

> One doesn’t want to look to sluttish because
> that turns some people off.

We understand this about what goes on in a chick’s mind as to why you
would not make the most forward move yourself (passiveness, ASD, etc.).
However, what I am particularly interested in is the gap of what men
consider an advancing move and what women consider an advancing move.
Meaning, can you give a few (clear) examples of how you felt you were
being direct and the guys didn’t seemed to pick up on this? Also, when
you got to points like that, what went through your mind to try to be
more direct/blunt but you ended up holding back? or how about the times
you didn’t hold back and what got you to make that move? Did it end up
working or did the guys still remain clueless and/or scared?

> I think guys miss thousands of
> opportunities to get laid just by not being aware of when a woman
> wants them.

Have you read any of my posts on AI (Approach Invitation)? This is very
related. It seems like the gap is bridged when a woman becomes just a
slight bit more noticable in her intent (rather than being completely
passive when the guy initiates out of the blue) and the man is at least
just a slight bit more aware of an AI. I’ve been recently studying a
means to propel a chick to provide an AI, watch for the AI, then follow
through after that initiation to move forward with the PU.

> I have to like somone a whole lot before I’ll go out and
> say I want to sleep with them, but if they make the first move,
> much better chance for them.

WHat about with a chick? In that case, you are forced to deal with the
same passivity that guys deal with. In that case, you must be the more
direct one, right?

> Off to steal all your women.

If you’re bi, we can share :wink:

*–
jay <formhandle@fastseduction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - Fast Seduction 101: Art of Pick-up and Seduction
Class is now in session…*
From mASF:
Date Posted: 2001/12/29 04:49:00 AM EST
Author: formhandle <unknown email address>
Subject: AFC vs PUA communication example

nycrafc wrote:

> …[snip story of tripping chick]…

nyrafc, search through my archives or Google on my pasts posts regarding “AI”.
The tripping was classic AI and your follow-up to it was very “it just
happened” magical which tens to work after such an invitation to approach. You
capitalized on something like this accidentally - you can observe stuff like
this happening all around you, you just need to know what to be aware of.

>Me: “In fact, I’m putting it
>on the Internet as soon as I
>get home!”
>Her, laughs, stage
>whisper:“Don’t use my real
>name!”
>
>Part 3:
>Me: …I chuckle, freeze,
>slow my pace, think about how
>I have no idea what to say,
>how I’m never going to fuck a
>chick this hot, etc., etc.

Damnit, she was practically telling you what to say next:

You: So what IS your real name?

HAHA that would have been perfect. Shake her hand, kino, laugh about it, pace
the situation,

To be less harmless and more polarizing
2

Nice post pheroquirk.

lots of goo dinformation there - a little social awareness takes you a long way in PU.

You may have noticed on the weekend that during downtime when i am not actively approaching (pretty much the whole time if I am instructing) I still say ‘hello’ to just about everyone I walk past. It is for the very reasons explained in your post - i.e, if the girl happens to be desperate to be opened this will give her enough oportunity to hook and I can continue the conversation and if not I have lost nothing.

I urge everyone to try it today - you will be amazed how many people stop to talk.

Hello is the best opener I know.

3

eight8eight

4

Thanks for passing this on, Quirk. I wish all the guys who are looking for some magic potion to “make women approach me” would read this! Even though it contains some of the typical PU putdowns (i.e., “all the trashy romance novels they read” - urggh! that reveals their own social level so clearly! haha) it’s a useful presentation of that key info.

I laughed my ass off when I read Neil’s description of “chick crack” - there’s a big grain of truth in it, of course. Who doesn’t know people like that? I just hope guys realize how low they’re aiming by selecting a tool like that to hunt with.

5

Yes - it’s not the most diplomatic piece of prose and I did hesitate a bit before posting. Thanks for being able to look past the slightly obnoxious style.

Re ‘chick crack’ - astrology, palm-reading, handwriting analysis, runes etc… I don’t know. As a tool to get to know someone, I’m not sure it’s only helpful for low-quality people. I think there are plenty who find this stuff fascinating even if they don’t believe it is literally true. (Umm, I’d probably include myself in that category)

6

I am completely sickened by all the PUA stuff on here, and have made no bones about it, but since it seems to be taking over these forums of late, we have to put up with it, or leave. I have not yet decided if the latter is the road I will travel, but it seems likely, as I am NOT comfortable posting here any longer, and feel that women’s feelings are not being taken into account at all here.

Yes, this is your forum, but so what? WE post here, we read here, and I for one do NOT want this blatant objectifying of women interrupting my enjoyment of a forum where I previously felt happy posting and responding.

Like I said before, people need to start getting real, and stop hiding behind facades. They would get on a hell of a lot better if they just were themselves, but that is the last I am saying on this, because the onslaught of all this gummf has already seen my posting here reduced by about 75%, and I am fed up being the one who says what so many are only thinking.

Anyone else who feels the same as me, and you all know who you are - speak up for yourselves, 'cos I am going to be starting my Christmas holidays soon, need no stresses other than those I have to deal with over the break, and am not being a voicebox for anyone except myself.

This was a great place for both genders to post, now it is anything but.

I appreciate some women may not see anything wrong with this kind of manipulation and co-ercion of women (or men if female PUAs are in the frame) but I do. It all goes TOTALLY against my moral and ethical codes of belief, and it makes me very unhappy to be a poster here.

I’ve been thinking long and hard about whether I will stay or go, for over a week now, and still have not made up my mind.

I doubt any of you really care, but you have to realise there ARE people, not just me, who are NOT happy at the way these forums have suddenly almost overnight morphed into a hotbed for the “Seduction community” to pass on their moves and routines on how to date and bed women. Men, some of whom in MY mind, only show by their derogatory comments and posturing, that they don’t know HOW to communicate with a woman without the use of mindless tricks.

Well..I needed to get that out. I don’t let things fester. I’m off to the pub now. With a group of males and females who have never needed to pull any of this garbage, and never will.

Ail.

7

From Neil’s description, I formed the idea that these are topics no self-respecting male would otherwise touch with a 10-foot pole but they since they are “chick crack,” (which reflects a low opinion of women) a PUA should pick up some superficial skills to use solely in PU, like a parlor trick.

I really prefer some authenticity … if you have a true passion for any of these, if you’re a bit of a warlock yourself, that’s another story entirely.

8

Please remember that for many younger people, male and female, much of social interaction is a mystery. Heck it’s still a bit of a mystery for me at my age. Just like any other “playground expertise” some of the material is just so totally “wrong” it can either make you laugh, make you sick, or both. Often embedded in the material are grains of truth surrounded by ignorance and imagination.

People are different, they react differently. As I said in another post, age, wisdom, experience, perosnality, etc all play a part. Some people like to fish, others hate it. Some people like to do extreme sports, other like to sit and read a good book. I can’t condem someone else for not liking the same things I like.

Personally, I find basic personality developement as espoused by much of the likes of Deangelo good, valid, helpful stuff (although some of his stuff goes against my grain). “Bishops Journal” on the other hand was so sickeningly manipulative I could barely make it through. It was like reading up on how to be a snake oil salesman of the worst sort. “Successful?” Yes. But also the kind of person I wouldn’t be suprised to see tarred and feathered or found hanging from a tree in the morning.

The main point is you have to decide for yourself what is right. You need to look at it all and sort it out as you go. I’ve traveled many paths through life. Stayed with some, abandoned others. And I think having counterpoints (like from you Ail) are a very good thing to have. Strauss and “The Game” are but ONE out of many many ways of life. Shoot, just look at all the “diet” books out there. This is just one opinion, one path.

Please help open new doors.

9

Great post PheroQuirk :cool:

10

yawn Ali could you shorten that please to like 2 words or so to get your point across? :stuck_out_tongue:

Nice post Pquirk :smiley:

11

Anyone who would like to see this forum rapidly become an all-male haven like love-scent, pay close attention to this thread. The secret has just been revealed to you.

I’m quite willing to give anyone, PUA, self-described alpha male, or garden variety wingnut, the benefit of the doubt. But once you show me your true colors, I don’t forget.

Please remember that what you say to one of us, you say to all of us.

12

I thought attacking PUA style and OUR style was warned against, if you read the “women read this” thread or whatever its called - actualy if females are going to cramp our style and nag then “I” dont want them here. I’m only speaking for myself but then nagging sux.

13

This is what this whole thread is about:

Ail, I think you got it all wrong.

I agree with you, some of the PUA stuff is overboard, such as the terminology and treating attraction like a science. Still, you have to understand that for a lot of guys, that’s how they get into it - that’s how I initially got into it myself. If you read this post, I guess it could go over your head and you could think it’s a bunch of “PUA nonsense” …but, it’s more about recognizing body language signs and openers women give men in normal, day-to-day situations.

It’s very similar to this post, do YOU hear sex

The only difference is that it’s sprinkled with some PUA terminology. The whole PUA thing is just a perspective.

This sounds good in theory, yes, but if a guy is quiet and unobservant themselves, how will they ever realize the signs of attraction women are giving him? Being yourself sounds great if you already have a great dating life. However, to someone who has never kissed a girl, being himself won’t work.

I’m not much of a PUA fan myself because it goes the other extreme. They say, don’t be yourself, but pretend to this image of some charismatic person by using these tricks and techniques (of course, I’m generalizing). It’s smoke and mirrors, and arises mainly from insecurities. Even if you can put in the effort to keep playing those games and putting so much effort, it takes the fun out of it. I say just go with the flow. You can’t be yourself, become a BETTER self, and still put in some effort to learn about the opposite sex. That’s how you become a great lover and eventually can find someone who you can really feel true chemistry with.

Still, we’re on a discussion forum that focuses on attracting the opposite sex through use of pheromones. It’s plain silly (and hypocritical) to be complaining about PUAs when you consider we are like chemical PUAs ourselves.

By the way, please read my post joyfully. I do appreciate having both sexes on board at PheroTalk because you can learn a lot from reading different perspectives.

14

Ail,

I am sorry you feel this way. I suspect there is more at play here than a simple moral objection to the seduction community. What I don’t want is to see you driven away or made to feel uncomfortable in a place you feel at home. I understand that an influx of new people can be daunting especially if they do not share your views - I do not however understand how what has been posted on the forums so far can make you feel this victimized?

We have had numerous PM exchanges, in which I have tried to assure you that I hold no personal negitive feelings towards you however I do disagree with your view on a subject that I am very passionate about. I have also reassured you numerous times that while I don’t agree with your opinion, I do respect the fact that you are entitled to it and certainly have a high personal admiration for the fact you are willing to air it. The childish insults I have recieved in reply aside I thought you confirmed to me that you understood this? - these are PM conversations that I am more than willing (given your permission) to post publically in their entirety for the board to inspect - if you would rather I didn’t for any reason please let me know.

The fact is that there are PUAs and people who believe in PUA on tis board and we are as entitled to our opinion as you are to yours. All the post concerning PUA topics that I have seen have been confined to posts that are clearly about PU. for “neil strauss the game” and this one - after reading the first few lines of this you should have been well aware of the direction it would take - what complelled you to keep reading? There is a simple solution to this - Don’t read the threads that are about Pick Up.

Or better still, put your personal settings so that posts by people you know believe in the PU community are not displayed (ignore member).

If I am still missing something Ail please let me know either on post or off and hopefully we can discuss this and come to an agreement.

15

I love how someone else backs me up, yet I get it in the neck. Some of you need to grow up - seriously.

..and NO, we women are NOT told we cannot object to the PUA style of posting, in the original post made by Michael, and let me assure you, those of us who ARE fed up and ready to leave, checked that one out very thoroughly before we said anything. Love Scent chased the women away, and this could go the same way. A great pity that, since Michael REALLY wants more women posters.

The way things are now, many prospective women posters will be driven away before they get on board, and we wouldn’t even have to post a thing. They only have to have eyes to see what we are seeing.

Yes, this IS simply an objection to the PUA community and its like, and the way in which these forums have been overtaken and have become a very uncomfortable place for the women to post in the last 10 days.

Nothing more, nothing less, and I am NOT alone in the way I feel, so get that through your heads - now.

I couldn’t care less if you post the THREE PMS or not. I told you what I thought of you, and that hasn’t exactly changed since yesterday. Prone to exaggeration are you?

Numerous PMs my backside..

Ail.

16

Well, it seems like it’s time for one of my NOT politically correct posts.

<Rant>
When I was young and dating and hitting the clubs regularly, there was no Internet (well, there was ARPANet, but we used that for university and military research :roll_eyes: ) so there were no PUA sites and no “seduction community”, so when this mind set began appearing here, I was noticing my first “PUA’s”.
Recently, because of a PM that I received, I began investigating the so called “Seduction community” by visiting some of the sites. I must say I was surprised and not particularly impressed by the apparent attitude in these sites. I saw a lot of anger and resentment of women in these sites. My impression is that the denizens of these sites are young male geeks who are so socially unsophisticated that they were repeatedly rejected by women and unable to maintain normal relationship. The appearances are that these poor examples of manhood need to dehumanize and objectify women to sooth their savaged egos. Further, rather than developing human relationships with women, they apply their “geekhood” to developing “scientific” formulas to obtain an end that they desire, a woman, even if just for one night, in their bed. Unfortunately, while the “formulas” seem to work, from all of the comments about the “flakes” and “crazy psyco bitc**s” that I see on these sites, they apparently work only on women who are as damaged as the males that haunt these sites. Seems that no healthy, self respecting woman would give these PUA’s the time of day. 'Tis a sad commentary on today’s young men.

As to the relevance to this site, I find it disturbing that such vitriol is finding it’s way here. The attitude toward women of “shut up and get back on your knees” has no place, in my opinion, here in this forum that was not too long ago, so welcoming to women. The women here deserve to be treated with respect. So, I say, if anyone wants to espouse their denigrating to women politics, please take them to the all boys “seduction community” sites where you will be supported by your peers and leave those of us here posting about mones free to have the feed back of the fine intelligent women here.</rant>

17

Mtnjim, I was waiting for a REAL alpha male to speak up on this subject. Thank God for you.

Respect. That’s all it’s about.

My biggest objection to this thread (and I wholeheartedly appreciate Pheroquirk’s intentions in starting it) is Richelieu’s reply to Ail. Misspelling her name (echoing what was done in honest error by Gem, as if it’s now some kind of in-joke) and yawning, basically attempting to shut her up … what I can even say about such juvenile behavior. Alpha male? I think not.

I am not willing to lump the whole PUA community together, as I’ve come across some material that is genuinely intended to help shy men enter into relationships with women. Some of it IS altruistic in its intent … that very limited slice of the PUA world, anyway. I’m a pretty patient person, but a* few *of y’all are making it hard to keep from jumping all over you. I appeal to your sense of decency: if you want a men’s club with no women around, you know other places to go for that, surely.

Michael’s caution to women posting in the men’s forum is concerned with what he calls piglike behavior. I think we all know what he’s talking about, and while it may make me cringe for you at times, that’s your prerogative. But harmless pig-talk does not equate with systematic disrespecting of women to the point of creating a hostile environment.

I read and participate in the men’s forum because a lot of good PHEROMONE information gets discussed here. I post here on the men’s side sometimes, particularly about products that both men and women use (and more and more, that’s ALL the products) because I value your observations, your intelligence, and the fact that you are MEN. Until recently, I could count on finding intelligent, thoughtful commentary from a group of open, curious and respectful individuals - in stark contrast to love-scent. It remains to be seen whether that difference survives.

18

IMHO - You guy’s take all this stuff way too seriously! Some of these discussions get way out of hand, in the political correctness sense (again, only in my humble opinion).

Spray some Instant Shine on your face, smoke some weed and relax! :smiley:

19

I have to admit, I took a look at DeAngelo’s “DYD” stuff and it looks like it would make some fairly decent “training wheels”. Besides he constantly points out that you don’t mistreat women, a plus in my opinion.

Yup, that’s the one that earned the rant!!

20

Excellent post Carrie, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say.

Richelieus post was misguided and I was dissapointed to read it - however it was in response to a post that had no relevance to the thread,