Confidence canned material and table tops

Lounge
1

I’ve read a number of posts on here advising people to “just be more confident” Usually the advice comes from females and is directed to posters that are younger males. To me the advice “be more confident” is like handing somebody a round table top and saying “here, build a table”. Something is being overlooked in both cases and that is the fact that both confidence and tables need legs to stand on.
True authentic confidence comes from knowing that you have the ability to succeed at a certain endeavor…not knowledge that you WILL succeed but that you are least capable enough to have a good chance. Confidence comes from competence. A man that’s never held a hammer won’t be very confident in his ability to build a house, whereas a guy that’s maybe taken a few shop classes and read a couple of books on carpentry might feel a bit more secure in it. Confidence comes from competence as well as positive past experiences. The more legs your table has to stand on the more secure and stable it is.

That’s why in the early stages of learning pickup a lot of coaches will give the advice “fake it till you make it” or “believe in the system until you’re able to believe in yourself”. When I first started posting here I got into a little debate over pickup game being insincere or fake. (it’s no more fake to act slightly different when approaching a woman you’re interested in than it is to act different talking to a potential employer during a job interview, PUA game is simply a set of rules of behavior and advice on self presentation for a guy applying for the job of “boyfriend, lover, one night stand etc.”. But if he’s been rejected most of the time the well meaning but not well thought out advice of “just be more confident” (almost always given by females in my personal experience) is almost insulting. It’s advice that was given to me many times and I silently said to myself “Easy for you to say, you’re not the one risking rejection and embarrassment. All you have to do is stand there and look pretty and pick the guy you like the most out of the lineup of guys competing for your attention…YOU try making the first move and show me how confident YOU can be”
Yeah I was a little resentful.

So I started reading up on PUA techniques and game. The MM makes use of canned material which imo is fine, but fill your own can. Along with the confidence advice, women also tend to give the advice “just be yourself”…even more useless when you think about it. It’s advice that was given to me and I would think “who the fuck else can I be? I’ve BEEN being myself and obviously that hasn’t worked since ‘myself’ is a guy that is painfully shy and nervous around attractive women” I think that advice stems from a womans unwillingness to believe that people in general and women more specifically are “generic” (no offense to anyone of either gender) enough that a preplanned approach of words and actions can fool them into being interested in a guy that’s just a genrally “nice guy”…they can, and do. I don’t view this as women being gullible, as all people respond to presentation in a fairly predictable way. Nor do I see it as being fake on not genuine on the guys part. If the lines and stories are their own, there’s no active lying involved and the personality conveyed is that of the type of guy the man truly wants to be, then it’s authentic. They’re presenting the confident guy that they want to be and can be until the confidence becomes a deeply rooted part of who they are.

The handful of guys I’ve coached were made to write out their own stories, lines and anecdotes based on TRUE things about themselves. Since remembering the truth is easier, having a big bag o’topics to discuss ensures that you don’t have to always try and think of “what should I say next?” and knowing that the stuff you’re going to be talking about is designed to present you in the best light possible. It gives you a sense of security in knowing that you’re “going in prepared”, you have a general idea of how people will respond to things you say and do and how to read the clues so you’re not wondering “does she like me?, am I annoying her?” You have a fair degree of confidence in the method, as you get successes, even partial ones, you become more confident in the technique (Early on I could build attraction like nobody’s business but then I’d get too anxious and try to go for seduction too quickly, or worse yet I’d fall into my old nice guy habits and get stuck in comfort but I was able to see that the techniques were still working, I just needed to fine tune my application…partial success but enough to motivate me to keep working at it).

As I worked on it, and my successes became more consistent and I learned microcalibration, body language, facial expressions, changes in vocal tones etc. I would find myself ad libing and winging it. Sometimes with good results, sometimes bad but I knew how to capitalize on a good result and how to backtrack and fix a mistake. From that competence in the skills of interacting with women my confidence shot up. I had the knowledge that I had enough things to say and how to say them that I could be funny or interesting to almost any woman I talk to, and it was based on real world experience, I knew that I had the skills to read a womans body language and get a good sense of her level of interest in me without her having to spell it out for me, I won’t miss an opportunity due to missed signals, I learned the difference between what women say they want and what they actually respond to and how to deliver it in a way that doesn’t confront them with the contradiction between the two…I preserve their illusions. And most of all, I learned that even if the first approach I make fails, I have the skills to not only recover but turn it around and enjoy a great success with one of any of a number of other women within the next hour. A rejection is not the end of the world, I don’t die because I know there’s millions of other women that will want what she passed up on. Hell some night my friends and I will actually have a night where we compete to see who can blow out a set the worst on purpose. I had effectively build legs for my table to stand on.

2

What a though provoking post!

I don’t know if I ever gave that advice but I can tell you the line of thought behind it. If a guy is goodlooking, a person who should be proud of himself and has a sound brain, but seems nervous and insecure around women, and asks what to work on to be more succesful, the quick answer would be more confidence. Everyone can see lack of confidence, so it is an answer you will hear often.

Of course the deeper questions would be how exactly to grow and/or show that confidence. But those are questions not everyone can answer, and questions that aren’t frequently asked, thus they are rarely answered.

If canned material helps you grow confidence, good for you! To some extent even natural human interaction is partly scripts that could be programmed into a computer. Hello–>How are you?–>Fine, how about you?–>Good, thanks! However that might compare to spontaneous words, it certainly compares favorably to no talk at all!

I had a nice chat with Tacitus on the subject in this lounge and I also see how people can hide behind a routine and avoid being present in the body and in the moment. This is a big ongoing discussion among all performers, I noticed it there first, and Tacitus pointed out that this issue exists among men looking to hit on women. I study something dorky, but work in a place that selects for excellent social skill, and notice both sorts of guys and the difference in their behaviour. Aside from this forum, one of the guys I mentor also mentioned how pick up artism has been useful for him in his general self improvement, so I read a few things on the topic.

Since, I notice men using it on me and other girls. Sometimes it looks and sounds stale and clearly has some unattractive energy behind it, othertimes it can be remarkably fresh and entertaining. I caught one guy I study with using this by the sheer amount of gamey stuff he crammed into a ten minute conversation, yet because they were all very subtle things, and he showed a friendly, relaxed energy behind it, his company is enjoyable. He later mentioned learning techniques on how to talk to women. (Betanol is teh truth serumz, hehe)

3

As you said a good amount of general human interaction is canned. Perhaps not consciously thought and organized but definitely pre programed and on auto pilot. I see a ton of guys approach women with the exact same “routine” which bears a striking resemblance to the type of conversation you just described.

I think the issue some people have with canned material is that they automatically assume it’s lines written by somebody else that are learned and memorized. Now to be sure many guys when they first start learning might do this. While I’m not a guru, I have trained and coached a handful of guys in this stuff and I steer them away from it for a number of reasons. Remembering lies, is a lot harder than remembering the truth, Keeping a lie consistent with a whole story is difficult (what if the girl spots an inconsistency in your story that makes it impossible to be true), and with books like the game, and guys like Mystery making the pickup game so popular and high profile you run a very real risk of using a routine today that the girl may have heard yesterday. I prefer to encourage the guys to write their own material about true things about themselves. “Leader of men” is an attraction switch and all but the most timid of men has had at least one or two times in his life when he displayed leadership. So I encourage the guys to write a story about that occasion, and then apply basic writing/story telling skills so as to make it more vivid and descriptive…interesting.

If they don’t have many true events or situations in their life where they can embed an attraction switch into their conversations, I encourage them to alter their lifestyle in such a way as to make some attraction switches. Make some female friends to show “pre selection by women”. That statement doesn’t mean you have to show that you get laid a lot, simply that women are comfortable around you and enjoy your company. Spend more time with family, particularly younger siblings, nieces and nephews etc. which helps cultivate a “protector of loved ones” image. I myself have a brother 18 years my junior who I’d die for and two cousins who are teenage girls and are way to pretty for me to be comfortable with seeing boys eyeballing them. I never used to talk about these things with women I had just met. I had a very attractive trait that I was hiding from women I wanted to attract. Now I discuss my family very openly and encourage other men to do the same. If a guy isn’t a leader of men I encourage him to become one by forming a social club with men of a common interest. Being the founder/organizer makes him a leader by default. I’ve had men form car clubs, martial arts clubs, a band etc. I never advocate lying to women. If you don’t the stories or routines to use that flip the attraction switches…think of the ones you’d like and make them real, THEN write out your material based on that.
They can then go into an approach without wondering “what am I going to say”, or “what if I get nervous and start talking about something that skeeves her out?”

In my opinion most of the guys that some would consider “naturals” aren’t really natural so much as successful “learn by experience” early bloomers. Our personalities, mannerisms, body language, social skills etc. are all learned behaviors. Some guys were just lucky enough or observant enough to pick up on little hints and clues dropped from a variety of sources in an unstructured way and incorporated it into their social skill set. I’ve seen plenty of naturals who’s style follows the Mystery Method Model almost to the letter yet have never read any books on the subject. It’s not that it’s natural, it’s just that they didn’t “lower themselves” to read a “How to score with women” book, and instead took bits of advice from other men here and there, applied it to real world experiences and developed their style subconsciously.

Both guys are doing almost the same thing, but the more formal student followed an organized structured learning process and understands not only what works, but why it works.

In either case as successful approaches and closes build upon each other the students confidence level rises. At first they become confident in the method, then they realize the “routines” were written by them and they become confident in their skills, finally when you point out that not only was it their material that worked, but it was material that’s genuine..true stories about themselves that people responded to favorably, they become confident in themselves. Their approaches become more relaxed, they become more spontaneous and will wing it more. They let go of expectation and become less outcome focused and live in the moment same as any so called natural you might know.

5

I like this! To me it feels natural when someone who has improved his lifestyle and self-respect so much, that as you dig deeper, you find no lies or unwelcome surprises. Also someone who can improvise and respond like a person who has always been sociable. It is a bit weird when a guy has all sorts of clever stuff to say, but gets all sensitive like a nerdy guy when you joke back. And if a guy starts lying to me, about things that matter, I really just lie back and tell fibbed stories of increasing outlandishness. I assume the guy is a cheap player. Disclosing the truth in a strategic manner is a much more ethical and effective habit. I try to do the same :slight_smile:

To be honest, a large part of social awkwardness stems from a lack of pride in oneself. The sort of body language that says “Don’t kick me,please I’m worthless” is usually found in people who neglect to work on themselves. If you live life the best way you can and are more than satisfied with your efforts, you naturally carry yourself with dignity. The body never lies, it shows all your inner neuroses and inner charms. There is far more congruence in people who actually work on themselves.

6

I’ve found this to be generally true. People who have a “go the extra mile” attitude show their quality in sometimes obvious, and sometimes subtle ways.

There are people who put in the extra energy into whatever they do. You’ll feel that energy in your interactions with them. It’s not about being perfect or being overly invested in a presentation. Those that really have the stuff don’t need to put on a show. They listen with more attention and more concern and they notice more about whatever it is they’re paying attention to. I think that one of the core secrets is what one might call the quality of attention.

Some might be surprised that the act of paying attention itself has many subtleties and qualities. There are those that pay fierce attention, but only to surfaces. One might say that they are too easily hypnotized.

There is the rare type that has a deep, penetrating, witnessing attention that isn’t easily distracted by surface presentations. In the erotic context, this isn’t a condition of “scoring” but a profound witnessing of the undisclosed or partially revealed essences of the other. Only with the capacity for deep witnessing comes the levels of empathy and attunement which make the adventure meaningful.

When attention is superficial, careless, lazy, or self absorbed no meaningful intersubjective space can open up, basically you have actors in a weak drama or a weak romance talking past each other.

I think people sense this instinctively, the capacity another has to see and hear into them, and to see and hear into him or herself. There are those (all too many of them) who talk past themselves, they don’t even have meaningful internal dialogs, they are living through distant idealized movies and artificial routines, they haven’t felt the essence of themselves yet.

Once and when they do, the revelation may be terrifying, confusing, perhaps even nauseating. The Sufis understood the transition between self estrangement and self awareness was often a period of depression and nausea.

Once the coordinated, attentive self has been developed and become a meaningful part of one’s identity, the intuition becomes extremely strong, one can directly feel in a moment things that had to be clumsily poked at and guessed at and uncomfortably glimpsed out of the corner of one’s eye in a previous stage of growth.

7

“The road goes on forever and the party never ends…” R.E. Kean

Just glance over your shoulder and the spirits, the teachers, the guides, the muses that you believed were long dead and gone, lost deep, deep in the past, will always be there right next to you.

Another part of confidence is the deep knowing, the belief into your marrow, that you have been, and are, graced by the teaching and wisdom and guidance of the most extra ordinary beings that your endless quest for awareness can find.

That prescense becomes an integral part of who you are. The guidance of old lessons becomes a part of your character. The knowledge that what wisdom you have absorbed, no matter how small, is precious gift, will color your every decision and action.

It is a great pleasure to once again be in the present company of exrtaodinary beings.

8

I agree, and I would say that the higher ones capacity for empathy, the easier one can sense this. Thus, if you are unable to empathize with others and instead of paying real attention to the treasures you may find inside them, project your ideals or prejudices on them, you hardly see if they are doing the same. This is why guys who marry a golddigger for example, tend to also lack empathy and presence. And girls who fall for players tend not to know what love is.

9

Actually I have seen more men giving that advice then women on here. Then again the men greatly out number the women so its all relative. :stuck_out_tongue: People talk about the importance of confidence and being able to read it on a man/women’s but not everyone gives the standard “just be more confident” answer. I agree with Butterfly and Tacitus and I think part of it is that people dont pay attention for whatever reason and just give the quick answer. Especially if its someone just here looking for the quick fix.
However the quick answer although correct is like telling someone to drive to Albuquerque and pick up a widget but not telling them how to get there or what a widget is. Some of the quick answers stem from seeing those same questions over and over. When you’ve been here a long time and you have explained how to obtain confidence 100 times already it can get tedious. Either way I think when people say it its with positive intentions.

Confidence is tough to teach. The only way to obtain confidence is by experience but if your not confident enough to take risks and not let failure define your self worth you cant obtain the experience. Its a catch 22 really. Its not easy to convey how to obtain it on a forum either.

I totally agree with you here. PUA has a bad rep because of the way its been presented in certain circles and on TV but done well it can really help a socially challanged individual. All the phrases or titles used to describe certain techniques do not help give it credibility though. I have nothing against the techniques at all actually women have used them for centuries, it comes naturally to us.

The key is to fit the techniques to your personality. In this sense your still being “yourself” instead of coming off fake. I have been socialization/Sex/Spiritual coach for a long time. Every PUA skill doesn’t fit every client. When a guy uses PUA and does not fit it to his personality you can see right through him and it comes off as fake.

You mentioned people giving the advice of “Be Yourself”. I believe I have advised this more then once. Usually its in the context of someone misusing PUA techniques or pushing to hard to be congruent with a pheromone signature. Don’t get me wrong congruence is great but if they were able to" just be congruent" with the signature in the first place they most likely would not have looked into pheromones for it.

Radman your actually a perfect example of finding and learning to use the tools to to create the skills and fit them to your life style and personality. I dont know what you do for a living but you would be a great Life coach. It may be something you should consider. I think you would be excellent at it.

Anywhooo…

You have two kinds of individuals who show up here in the forum. The ones looking for the quick fix and the ones looking for tools of self improvement. The quick fix individuals have trouble with mones but the ones looking for one more tool to add to their socialization arsenal do very well.

All of us have ended up here for the same or similar reasons. Even those of us who come across as confident and have high self esteem came looking for tools of improvement. The very fact that we are looking for a source outside ourselves to improve indicates that everyone of us has had confidence issues at one point or another, including myself. Some people know its important to have so they suggest it but that doesn’t mean they know how to obtain it. Some of have learned from experience how to obtain it.

You do need a strong foundation of other tools to be successful with pheromones. You need it to be successful in life. If you buy pheromones believing these will solve all your problems your doomed to fail. Inspiring people to be more self confident and develop a strong self esteem is important but teaching skills like Body language, facial reading, tailoring. kino etc etc are all part of the big picture. The part I bold-ed out in your quote above is so vital as well. I do not care who you are or what you look like we all experience rejection in life and its how you handle that rejection that makes all the difference. If you internalize it and let it define you, you cant build confidence or self esteem.

Stated perfectly and with eloquence. :wink:

This is so so true. Many people dont live in the moment. The “quality of attention” has been lost. I think as Butterfly pointed out a persons level of empathy makes the difference. The world is wizzing by with with all these new social tools… texting, cell phones, facebook, tweeting all designed to make interaction easier but in the same sense taking away from the quality of attention. People especially younger individuals have either not learned or have forgotten how to pay attention and in doing so have lost their empathy and ability to connect with themselves and others.

Essence of Self.

I love that. Nothing against the younger generation but I dont feel many of them are taking enough time to really stop and take a look within. Stress, pressure and technology has done much damage to peoples spiritual growth and by “spiritual” I dont mean religious. I am referring to the growth of self. They are looking for their power outside themselves and you just cant find it there. People are forgetting how to look with in.
Social tools are just that…tools but its the person who wields those tools that creates there reality. You can give them tools and tell the what to do and how to do it but ultimately the journey within has to be taken alone

Tisha

10

I was mildly disturbed to watch a series of youtubes showing kids massively overdosing on the herb salvia divinorum. It was as if the herb peeled back layers of superficial development and showed chaotic and undeveloped interiors. Nothing for my generation to brag about, we were easily as unformed and unwise in our own substance tasting years.

What’s been learned in the years since then ?

The “psychic interior” needs years of devoted effort, it doesn’t arise without some degree of intention, there are guys with the chronological age of 50 and the psychic interiors of 12 year old boys. An awful of of them, I’m afraid, ended up running our financial systems… which might explain a thing or two…

One thing I will say for shamanic cultures, as well as shamanic practices that “work with the center” is that they have long and deep traditions around recognizing the center, speaking to the center and speaking from the center. I’ve also seen many near-charlatans who are basically poseurs who carry themselves as knowledge bearers, or whatever, who unfortunately don’t know all that much on close inspection.

OTOH, there is legitimate, soul changing, life changing wisdom culture that works in multiple energetic ways, sometimes with chemical/botanical substances and sometimes without them…

What I see around me is often a culture of children who don’t have access to elder culture with the necessary wisdoms and understandings to guide them into being emotional, spiritual adults…

When I meet someone who is truly attractive, truly interesting, instinctively compelling, it seems that that person has made a difficult personal journey beyond the childish world of tinsel and surfaces, they’ve taken a long hike beyond the easy to get to places, they’ve earned their identity in ways that can only be earned… there are things in life that cannot be given, nor bought, they have to be paid for in the heavy coin of life.

That’s the difference that makes the difference… how much that person has dared to grow, above and sometimes against all the collective illusions and neuroses, somebody who can handle a lot of pain with cracking and hasn’t been deformed by it.

11

Wonderful post. I too have a great respect for many tribal societies. One of the most fundamental things ancient cultures had that I feel we sadly lack is a right of passage.
Some might argue that we actually do, granted in some ways some could cay we have several. But I don’t feel that getting your license, first job, HS diploma etc really count or are even close to comparable to the rights of passage used by tribal societies to mark the transition from a boy to being a fully respected man of the tribe.
These events were usually ordeals that forced the boy through extremes of fear, pain and physical and mental exhaustion. At the end there is a truly profound change, the boy has accomplished something truly great…he faced his own limitations and came through. There is a confidence that comes from rites like this that can’t be taught or faked.

After seeing David Deangelo speak I was compelled to read “The Emerald Forrest”. Part of the book details a boy enduring a South American rite of passage into manhood. Excellent book and if you haven’t read it, I give it my highest recommendation.

Rites such as this formalize the passage into adulthood. Just like children need structure as children, the definition of maturity and adulthood needs structure. I’m not endorsing foolish haphazard ordeals the likes of which might be practiced by sheep fucking frat boys during pledge week. But rather a formalized rite wherein the men in the boys life acknowledge him as having the courage, and character expected of a mature adult man in our society. And it should be a challenging life altering experience. Enduring it and earning the respect of other men that have likewise endured it gives a very solid, firm leg for your confidence to stand on.

12

This is sad and its true. It go’s back to what you mentioned about paying attention. The culture and wisdom of the past is lost in the Western culture although not totally gone. A majority of people now look at spirituality as something outside themselves and this is IMO what has misguided them.

Snort. I’m afraid they have ended up running our financial systems to. More and more so recently. I cant think of one of our leaders today that is driven by spirit even slightly. None of them can escape there ego long enough to recognize spirit. None have even stepped on the path to consciousness yet.

There are many paths to what lies within. We all are on a different “level” within that journey. There are many methodologies but I dont believe one is more effective then the other or that one holds all the knowledge. Those would be a ego driven thoughts. I believe certain methodologies do call to a person more then others though. Each one has its similarities and its differences. They all stem from one place and the all end up in that same place. I dont see many “Near-charlatans” or perhaps I should say I dont perceive people this way. I see people who have stepped on the path of consciousness. I see people who may use different methodologies and hold different levels of knowledge as just being in a different place in the journey. There will always be those with more knowledge and consciousness and those with less then my own but I grow from the knowledge of both of them. This is my own opinion from growing up with “elders” or roll models that are very diverse in there methods. My mothers being Catholic, My Father being shaman and my grandmother being a witch.

I guess it depends on how one perceives these milestones in life. All of them are in some sense a ritual. A transition or passage into a different position in a given society. They are earned but I dont think children of this generation or the last few including my own see it as a “right of passage”. The just see it as their “right”. That makes a big difference in how or even if it changes them.

Its true that tribal passages are much more extreme and defined then your everyday passages. I know both my brothers went though this passage. My father is part Mohegan and still practiced many of the old ways. I know even now in at least our small tribal setting it didnt involve pain or extreme fear but they did seem different to me after that. Course being a women I dont know exactly what occurs and they are very tight lipped about it :roll_eyes: and I have given up trying to find out. LOL

I personally look at child birth as a right of passage for women. You endure much, fear, mental exhaustion and pain or at least before modern medicine pain LOL. You come out of the experience changed and not just from the presence of a child but with a deeper knowing and peace.

Tisha

13

I might write a post on this later this week.

A lot of people cannot believe that I wasn’t always outgoing and popular even though I was the kid that always got bullied and rarely had friends.
Nowadays I feel at ease in pretty much any social situation, and get complimented a lot for my sunny disposition, winsomeness and charisma.

To be honest, I notice that the marketing of PUA materials tends to be corny, bordering on misogynistic even if the content is not. I guess this is because Joe Blow is only going to seek self improvement when he is down over a bad breakup and “Lay twenty chicks this month” resonates with the resentful. The materials that take social skills from a 4 to a 6 are more likely to be marketed this way than those that take a 7 to a 9. People who got out of puberty with very poor social skill are usually in great pain that often leads to bitterness. Also, hardboiled strategy alone, practiced perfectly, can only take you to about 8, above that, you need to also have great empathic skills. The group I mentor in only invites people who are above average on the whole and want to self improve to excellence, so when I mentor on social skill, it is usually the latter group.

That is a good point. Maturity plays a large part when it comes to inner growth. While there is some correlation between maturity and age, people tend to mature as they age after all, there are huge differences in maturity level between one 40 year old and the next.

Now, with the right attitude you can find opportunity for growth in any situation. Actually it was a 20 year old guy who taught me how to find things of personal value and usefulness in the things you have to do. Even if you did not initially enjoy them, you learn to do so.

Personally, I go to uni fulltime, work a job that is known to be stressful and am part of a dance performance group and I find opportunity for growth in my everyday life. I build my discipline and willpower by getting things done for school when I would rather lounge about. I do breathing exercises on the toilet at work, practice my social skill on my colleagues and customers, learn to handle critisism gracefully, and use work courses for improving skills. Going to dance class after a long day has built up my capacity for energy, brings me back into my body and made me new female friends of all ages and backgrounds. Performing teaches me to put aside my worries for the moment, focus on feeling the music and connect with the audience through my body and heart without letting my brain interfere. It give me the ability to find cheerfulness and serenity inside myself, even if I felt a bit down that day, so I can give an honest show. There is no need to stay in a monastery if you want to work on yourself and experience growth.

These are some very relevant points.

I do think Western society in general is in an interesting phase where we reach back into tradition. Just like teenagers put all their parents values on the trash heap and then browse though that heap as twentysomethings to find their real values, we discarded rules and traditions in the 20th century and are rediscovering them now. Teenagers need to experiment with all sorts of shenanigans to find out for themselves what rules are useful and why and what rules are obsolete, and looking at the 19th century, we did have a lot of obsolete traditions and we needed the 20’s and the 60’s to unshackle ourselves from organised religion, rigid gender roles and a rigid social ladder. Now, it is also good we are realising the rigidity of the stractures was stifling, but we do benefit from structure, and we need a flexible structure that gives support without cramping us. There is a natural ebb and flow of dissolving and coagulation.

When it comes to rites of passages, I feel formal ones do have their place, yet moreso as a preparation to overcoming your real limitations in daily life. Everyone has things that scare him a little, scare him a lot, or terrify him. I may be afraid of heights, you may be afraid of public speaking. Everyone had experiences that are physically or emotionally painful. You may have faced romantic rejection, I may have faced an insane parent. Everyone faces hardship, failure and adversity. All these things give us the opportunity to have life changing spiritual growth. Life naturally offers us lifechanging experiences, as long as way stay true to ourselves and have golas that force us out of our comfortzone.

14

I think your one of the “exceptions to the rule” Your obviously deeper and more connected with your inner self then most people in your age group. I agree there is no reason to stay in a monastery to achieve personal growth. You can experience it in every day life if like Tacitus said you pay it “quality attention”. You do and I do know some people in your generation who do but its really not many.

I hope so and I have heard many therories on this being what will occur in 2012. A return to tradition and sprituality on a global level. I dont know if its wishful thinking or not. I really dont have a therory on it myself.

You should, I look forward to it and I am sure it will be a great help to a lot of the members here.

Tisha

15

See now I don’t understand because the Mystery Method, does not used canned material. It clearly says that its his material and you should develop your own. On that note though it also goes along with what you are saying that you should fake it until you make it, so wouldn’t that be the same thing?

16

Well, it helps to have a deep resource base… older folks who have logged in the hours turning into years, who have a good grasp of the second and third order consequences of behaviors, beliefs, and attitudes…

There are thousands of small yet significant details i’ve worked out in my own time on my own dime, what to say, what not to say, when and where to say it or not to say it, how expectations can build up and deflate, to what degree someone is living in a fantasy world and to what degree they are firmly grounded in reality…

before anyone teaches PUA material to the general public I think they should have at minimum two semesters of u. level abnormal psychology and two semesters of cultural anthropology… otherwise they’re flying blind on the theoretical level… blowing smoke and making it up as they go.

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I would say that’s the majority of the community if you can even call it that. More like a dysfunctional gang or mob. I’ve seen guys and heard people come visit the Memphis Social Improvement Group (I dislike the word lair as it denotes animals and I am far from an animal :wink:) who had no idea about the dynamics of psychology. It was like they were a cookie cutter version of same “famous” PUA. Every word that came out of their mouths was “practiced!” Even their so called natural game was calculated and while the only thing I got out of it, except how not to interact with other humans was a good laugh.

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any recommendations for reading in the domain of cultural anthropology?

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First off, I’d be surprised Steve if when you’ve gone out you haven’t heard guys talking to girls and thought to yourself “I’ve heard that story before”.
Yeah Mystery says it’s his stuff and you should develop your own material, but a lot of guys think either A.) I don’t actually HAVE anything that’s my own to talk about, B.) I wouldn’t know HOW to write something out and make it interesting for a woman to hear. or C.) they, like most guys that first get into learning pickup want the instant gratification of a magic pill to just make it happen now, so they memorize his lines, routines and gambits and go out and kill a room using the same openers and conversations on every set there. I’ve noticed the guys that have attended bootcamps and seminars are WAY better and more individualized than the guys that just learned from the books or dvd’s.

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See that’s the thing, I was using the juxtaposition of canned vs natural to denote it for what it is. When you look at it the way I “masterfully” presented it :wink:, its all really the same.

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