Eye contact: getting past nerves with girls I liked, with pheromones in the mix

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
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Edit: I know this is long but I definitely think it’s worth reading if you have any interest in eye contact and pheromones

I’ve previously had a “thing” about eye contact. I used to never think about till I was about 16 in high school and got really into girls and then began to get nervous around some and lack eye contact in conversations. I began to mentally always be thinking “should I be making more or less contact during this conversation” which made me look nervous/thinking too much which sucked. This never happened with dudes, just girls that I was into, not ones I wasnt attracted to.

Anyway, fast forward 2 years to 18, I’m somewhat down on life from a series of shitty things occuring in my life. I’m not in the mental place to turn it around, no interest in counseling or whatever, and basically just stuck in a shitty mood for months. I can fake being happy around acquantinces (spelling :confused:) , am completely myself around my friends and we have real conversations about life shit, and can fake somewhat flirting with girls I like. However, what I now cannot fake with acquantinces and girls I am attracted to is eye contact. I’m no longer nervous at 18, just not interested in it. While maybe 90-95 % and can get up to 100 in a really good conversation eye contact is “normal,” I was doing maybe 30-40% eye contact. With my friends shit was normal eye contact-wise because I was totally tuned in and felt normal, but I just would space out or ignore the other person’s eyes most of the other times. I was totally listening/interacting with them, but for some reason I just wasnt focused on looking. As a result, my relationships with girls (until I’d get steady GF’s and then have no problem with eye contact) and my acquantinces suffered because they thought I was either insecure, nervous, not listening to them, or weird. :frowning:

Now fast forward to 20, now. I have began using pheromones. The thing is, I never realized how fucked my eye contact was until pheromones. I’m a pretty normal, chill dude, as are my friends, so I figured they would have said something. but no one ever did. They probably just figured it was how I always communicated. But it wasn’t, before I was super into girls and/or depressed (although what is depression really…?) I did great at eye contact. Instant shine makes me do 100 percent eye contact and the other person about 100, but sometimes I feel too happy and chatty. IH and IO or cttm2 make me do about 90 (I manage to take breaks of looking away) while the other person about 90-95%. Here’s the absolute key. With cttm2, IH, IO, and IS, I may be able to do eye contact, but I still get sometimes a little nervous/anxious talking to really fine girls, I’m talking 9’s and 10’s. But ammo is different.

With ammo (in addition to other products or by itself), my pheromone-using companions and comrades, I am able to make any amount of contact I want. With really fine girls, dimes, I make 95. They make 100. Like at the strip club last night. The 10 I was talking to (my journal has more) was used to guys being super nervous/looking away. I never needed to look away. But I didn’t force myself to look. Totally natural looking. And I didnt need to think about words, they flowed, and I didnt need to think about the eye contact, it flowed.

With 8’s and lower with ammo, I look away when I feel like it. It’s totally natural, it’s like when they are getting content I am looking at them a lot and really listening, I will continue listening, but maybe look at the computer screen and casually check my email or something while intemittently looking at them, and say something like “my mom really wanted to talk to me the other day let me just check, but keep going I’m listening” so they understand I care. But the physical act of me looking away and not needing to impress them is powerful. And I’m not lying, I do need to check for the e-mail, but before pheromones I would have been looking down and not making much eye contact. With socials, I would have been too focused in conversation, and not checked the email. With ammo, I am able to check my email which is a +, am more relaxed which is a +, and look away to build attraction which is a +.

Assuming you guys have noticed somewhat the same things, I definitely never realized this till pheromones, and when/if I stop using these products, I will have learned something invaluable to my life.

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WOW… I cant believe this post has gone almost a month without a post too it. I totally dig ya on this one. I had the same experience. I didnt notice with mones though but i think i felt alot more flowing with my eye contact when i got my anxiety medicine. I mean i dont have any of the referrable mones that you mentioned except for IO but that really didnt make me improve on my eye contact. It um whats the feeling not more confedient or more talkitive, i guess it made me focus on what i was saying more. But yeah reps on the great post dude. nice one

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There is something else to learn that is invaluable to your life. Stop referring to and rating women as numbers and/or coinage. Don’t speak it with your mouth, don’t write it down and don’t even think it. It’s counterproductive and can only hold you back in initiating and building relationships. Women are people and their physical appearance is only a small percentage of whom they are. Once you get past the initial physical attraction, her personality and lifestyle will be almost everything to you. If it wasn’t so, men would only date call girls. You’ll be happier and more successful in your life and relationships if think of women in a holistic manner, rather than a numerical sum of physical attributes.

Don’t ever let any woman in your life learn of your classification system. She’ll just wanna cut it off and put you out of your misery.

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I used not to make alot of eye contact and when occasionally making it with an unknown girls ( in the bus for example) I got nervous and my neck’s muscules freezed for a second or two.Funny thing though that if I got to know the girl - I was behaving around her just as with an old pal.Now I make such reaction only when I have hangover. :DBut even then - I force myself not to care and it works miracles for me.Just do not care how you look when making eye contact and just look the girl in the eyes.Be somewhat stubborn in this.In no time you will get used to i t and then it will become a habbit.When it becomes a habbit to make an eye contact and not to care about it - you will never think again about how to look and how much time to look.It will come naturally.

And yes - I agree with Gegogi - rating women like some object and not human being - it’s foolish and boyish and if a woman catches you doing it - you’re over with her.

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ah i disagree with you to but i dont totally agree with him. I mean we all do it. We all have a simple rating tool inside our head that pretty much has number and you decide weither or not they are high enough on there to date. He just happen to type it out to show us his results. Yes i would never tell a girl what number or i choose for her. But it wouldnt be a bad thing cause it would be really high on the list if i choose to date her in the first place. I mean people have different preferaces so the numbers are going to be different for everyone. I mean my 6 could be someone elses 8.

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I don’t agree with you T :roll_eyes: I really don’t think all guys do that…I’m sure younger guys do it a lot more but with maturity the % would decrease.
My guess is, 5 or 10 years from now you’ll think differently :wink:

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well 5 to 10 years from now it wont really matter cause your either married or you have given up hope and just getting desprite. If you do marry out of despritism then you really wont be happy. People say beauty is the beholder. Thats true if they dont have a good personallity then you wont last. But if they dont look attractive to you then you will never start and if you did start in the back of your mind you wish you didnt and it will just eat at you

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Gegogi, if we were all hanging out in person I wouldn’t be saying “dime” and 9 etc. However, we are part of an online community where none of us know who each other are talking about.

A huge point of this post was that I had trouble talking to attractive girls while I didn’t have trouble talking to girls I found less attractive. Yet, pheromones helped me reevaluate and further understand my eye contact situation. So the whole reason I used a numbering system in this post, and choose to online at times, is so that you guys understand my situation better and I can recall how I developed in specific situations. Read the paragraphs again with that in mind. I’m not rating women because I am a douche. I am giving women numbers on a forum so that fellow readers better understand the situation.

That being said, I respect your appealing to the greater morals. But let me just say something. I poured my heart and soul into this post. No one read it because it was long and slightly cluttered, and for other reasons so I let it go as being history. Hell, maybe the labeling system offended them as well, but I doubt it.

So when I saw an email that Tourch brought it back by reading/bumping it, I excitedly checked the forum to see what he said. Yet, instead of finding just one positive post, or multiple positive posts, I find yours. rather than saying even one positive thing about it, you start out with “There is something else to learn that is invaluable to your life. Stop referring to and rating women as numbers and/or coinage”. You basically completely disregarded all the positives of the post and picked apart the main potential negative. While on one hand I feel like you’re trying to help me, but by not even mentioning anything good about the post I feel like you let the labeling system, which genuinely was to help you as a reader of the post, ruin it ot make it useless for you.

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Ty man, and yeah people. This is supposed to be a helpful forum. I do respect critizism it is nice and just well manners to critize and then maybe leave some helpful feedback. Not just bashing someone for a part of a good thread that was just trying to shed some like on a new topic. That just gets everyone all pissy at each other and we dont need that here. I kind of think of us as a family (not that close but worded like this for a reason) to help each other out and to make this place the best forum it can be.

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Yeah that could be true guess i cant really say how i will fill in 5 years :slight_smile: but from my experience with guys even older people, most guys do think like that. I mean they might not make it so blunt but ive actually catch groups of guys like at a part or what not with there friend just spitting out numbers to each other about girls they see. I would be lieing if i say i havent done it but i dont want too. So please ladies anyone that reads this please dont get mad at me for stating this, im just the messanger :wink:

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Gegogi i really have nothing to say to you but quote ur system!

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I try to be a man of substance and see girls beyond there physical attributes. On any given day of walking around I will rate girls that I see for brief periods with a numerical value based on what I “see”. The thing is though even though I like how latinas look and eyes and face are the main physical attributes I’m after I don’t dismiss a girl or necessarily judge her “completely” based off her physically. The only thing I admit is I need to be attracted to her physically at least somewhat. Most of the girls I’ve really really liked a lot were only 6-7.5’s at best from a physical standpoint and I find that a lot of 8-10’s lack the personality/ demeanor of girl that I want. I don’t wanna discriminate prettier women either because I’ve met girls with more or less the whole package with a little less of one side versus the other.

I agree with Gegogi and Casanova on the point that your marginalizing potential mates decreases your chances because your overanalyzing the whole idea and turning the chasing of women into sort of mentally twisted statistics/probability thing.

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Sorry, but the whole numerical rating thing really makes me fear for the future of the male sex when I read something like: “Oh, she’s a 9.5 so I figured I’d try her 7.5 friend.” Or, "I practice on 5 and 6s so I can be ready for 7 and 8. And, “made eye contact with a few 7s and a 9, this shit really works.”

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Putting the physicality aside males definitely are very visual and can be very shallow when it comes to selecting who they approach. You may not subscribe
to the number thing in any way but you gegogi surprise me quite a bit. I can’t generalize about people born in the year of the horse but my father was one and I have 2 friends that are horses. In a general sense among these 3 people they were always looking for the hottest piece of ass and if they didn’t meet a certain quota it was as if they had seen trash and want nothing to do with it. Now my father isn’t a young dude and hes a little better about it but he never really stopped being a player. I’m not saying your completely shallow but like any guy your probably visually discriminative like any average joe subconsciously whether or not you actually implement any sort of numerical system. There is more to a girl than her looks BUT until to you speak to her thats all you really have…

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I wish I knew how this comment thing works but honestly. I will blatantly say I’m not great at all with women. But whoever gave me that comment doesn’t realize one little bit about what I’m like or how I treat/ value women. I may not be in my 50’s but I’ve always been courteous and chivalrous towards women and regarded them as my equals. Criticize me all you want but I find it absolutely baseless.

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I’m visual as a MOFO! If she doesn’t have a nice set of toilet grippers, I ‘AIN’T’ with it! Shallow or not … it’s my taste buds that “I” please. :wink: I don’t know if it’s the mones or age, but I’m picky as hell! I AM NOT waking up in the morning to a pig with a wonderful personality!!! Unless she gets me drunk, and asks me nicely.

Some of the newer ways of describing things 8, 9 10s … I didn’t like either, but I’m becoming more acceptable of how the younger GENERATION does things. Lots I like … lots I don’t.

It’s my planet, and I’m the ONLY ONE that’s allowed to write the rules! :wink:

ACCEPTANCE and UNDERSTANDING … it keeps the frowns off your forehead, that later turns into UGLY wrinkles. :open_mouth: What…eva! :roll_eyes:

Eye contact is a powerful tool! Practice it! Learn it! Use it!

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Okay, I think I need to chime in here. EVERY SINGLE GUY RATES WOMEN, EITHER SUBCONCIOUSLY OR CONCIOUSLY WHEN THEY FIRST SEE/MEET HER. It’s how we’re wired. Whether you use a number system or not, you are rating her in your mind. Now once you get to a know a girl and build somewhat of a relationship (not necessarily a romantic relationship) you will of course begin to think differently about her. Instead of thinking of her as “oh she’s really freakin’ hot” or “she’s fugly” like you may have thought when you first met her, you may now think “she’s really freakin’ cool!” or “I don’t care how hot she is, she sucks as a person”.

Example: There is a girl in my class that for the first few months of school I thought was honestly one of the hottest girls I’ve ever seen. Beautiful face, smokin’ body, the works. But, as time went on and I started talking with her more and getting to know more about her, I soon learned that she has a horrible attitude. She is BEYOND stuck up and not only does she think her shit don’t stink, but she would proclaim it smells like roses. Now, I honestly cannot even look at this girl. I am not attracted to her in the slightest and if she randomly came up to me and asked to have sex I would flat out reject her.

I guess the moral of the story is we all rate women, but these “ratings” change as the relationship changes.

Now as far as eye contact is concerned:
eye contact alone = good, but eye contact + smile = great, and eye contact + smile + “what’s up?” = golden.

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Of course I’m extremely selective but I tend to be attracted to intellects, artists and musicians, especially those with a kinky side. Cellists especially pitch tent for me. All those years pulling bow and squeezing a large instrument between her legs propel me straight into hog heaven. Other lifestyles, no matter how hot the poon, bore me to tears in mere minutes. I suppose some may argue a preference for the company of Ph.D and artists is another kind of shallow, but a woman with brains, education and creativity is amazing in bed and great to travel and hang with. Ah dunno, I don’t find a woman occupied with shopping for shoes and makeup and acting girlie enticing. She usually strikes out in the sack too.

Yes, I was born in the year of the horse but I don’t give much credence to such bander. I’m also a double Scorpio which I hear is bad news as they tend to be ruthless poon wreckers.

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I’m the same way when it comes to girls I’m attracted to. Nah I think shallow is purely in terms of seeing people only for their physical or monetary assets so you definitely don’t fit that bill. You like girls with style and substance and I couldn’t agree more. Even Einstein proclaimed imagination to be more valuable than just simply IQ.

I know many people find any sort of horoscope to be complete nonsense. I only mention horses as shallow people generally because my pharm tech teacher whom I still visit sometimes as well as person I know from that class his name being Lee having quite entertaining personalities that people enjoy but their depth of conversation was always shallow as a kiddie pool. On the flipside my father being a Cancerian brought back some emotionality to his demeanor although he’s a horse since his overall demeanor clashes with my reserved/sensitive persona. I’m a rabbit myself which fits okay but for a libra I’m basically opposite as I’m pretty much a loner of sorts rather than a socialite. But for me between being a chronic doormat/nice guy
and having my moon in capricorn I have little chance with most women.
I don’t believe everything horoscope says because I’m a very introspective person and I can definitely discern who I am and garbage whatever I’m not.

I obviously can’t judge you seeing as how I’ve never met you or know you in any light. As a phero forum person I do have a great deal of respect for you though. I like reading your posts from LS and your posts are quite humorous at times. The posts I said from before were for reference sake. I don’t subscribe to treating women like that but men from my generation suck in general. I’m almost a borderline misandrist on some days but I do realize everyone is a individual and you can’t condemn people for one simple factor or role that they may have. I dunno why i felt like typing all this crap but anywho…XD

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But even selecting people for thier intellect and what instrument they play is still rating them in some sense. So i think this whole thing is about yes we do rate people and numbers are what we know. That is a logical system to use. Cause we use it in all sorts of rating systems. To even say shes not attractive (1), shes pretty cute (5), and shes hot or wow shes a musician i would like to get to know her more (10). Look at the speed dating system. They use numbers in there system. And they seem to do pretty well with it. You can say people who do that are shallow but end the end we all rate people.

Didnt expect this thread to turn into this though lol