Is this thread still alive? If so, can we get this thread back On-Topic? I mean, who really cares what the women think? How many women have most of these female posters slept with, anyway? Exactly. Nada.
I find his perspective interesting because:
A) He is extremely young and picking up women in a club setting. Being younger than 24 puts him at a huge disadvantage with a lot of women he meets.
B) He learned most of his techniques/approach outside of a community setting.
and
C) If there is some truth to what he is saying, he’s pretty good.
“Closing the deal” is easily, without a doubt, the most challenging aspect of any of this stuff and most of the paid people in the community are total fakers.
Anyone who has experience with phone numbers knows exactly what I’m talking about…
‘Who cares what the women think’ - really? So, you’re not trying to pick up womens’ phone numbers? Yes, he’s young. And young girls go for his style - until they learn differently. Read his journals if you want 18 - 24 year old fems. PM him. Let him know he’s your Yoda.
Awww come on, cut the guys some slack. You gotta realize that most guys before they started learning about Mystery, David D and other seduction guru types, considered women to be the best source of info on what women want.
Hell I remember being that guy, sitting surrounded by female friends that were bombarding me with bad and untrue advice based not off of what actually works for building attraction, but based off of what they are comfortable believing about themselves. I sat there and ate it up thinking I was getting super top secret information from behind enemy lines that would give me this incredible advantage over all “those clueless guys” that hadn’t been educated by women.
Problem was all the advice I was given was incredibly effective at making into the best penis bearing girlfriend a woman could hope for.
Most of the advice was either illogical, “Just be yourself”…which I never cared for as advice, because at the time “being myself” meant being shy, needy and approval seeking.
Most of them probably had girls they were attracted to, but were stuck in the friend zone and listened to what the woman “said” about how she wishes she could just find a “nice guy” that treats her good…and they would follow her advice and be that nice guy, and always do favors for her, buy her gifts, and listen to her problems, all the while beating their heads against a wall when they would watch her go after one “bad boy” jerk after another.
I have no problem listening to women and taking their advice but I learned to consider the source. If a woman was telling me to “be a nice guy” and her last three boyfriends were all arrogant jerks, I would dismiss her as somebody that needed to reconcile their image of the type of woman they want to see themselves as with the type of woman they actually are.
I’ve rarely if ever heard a woman give advice like “you have to act like I want you more than you want me.”, “flirting with other women in front of me really gets me feeling possessive” “I like it when guys act bossy, it makes me feel more feminine”
Guys don’t usually get that kind of advice from women, but from personal experience and from witnessing it with other guys it usually works better than most of the advice women give.
Now, I will admit on rare occasion I have met some women that are secure enough with themselves to be genuinely honest about what is and isn’t effective at generating attraction…but sadly this is rare.
So most guys develop an attitude of “Well, I can follow the advice of women which is usually stuff I’ve already been doing and landing me in the ljbf zone AND seems to be diametrically opposed to what every guy she’s ever gone out with has done…or I can follow the advice/emulate the guys that are where I want to be.”
Oh, Boo. I’m so sorry that you had delusional fems feeding you garbage. Women do want ‘nice guys’ just nice, multi dimensional, confident guys. I personally don’t date assholes, there’s too many in day to day life for me to put up with that shit. I’ve also had years of ‘bum’ dating advice from guys. Which ironically, is just as bad as the fem advice.
Personally, I made the effort to develop the things about myself that I ‘approved of’ or liked. Did (some of) the things that I wanted to do and so forth. Common interests are a better source of dating material. Clubs are really not the resource for anything but temporary amusements - which is just so convenient if that’s all you want.
I just keep in mind that I’m not gonna like everyone I meet, or click with those I’m attracted to; yes, it a bummer but it’s true. Clubs are the original ‘speed dating’ scenario - what’s if everyone treated them like that? Would everyone (males and females) have better ‘luck’? Who knows? I don’t know and I’m not gonna find out any time soon. Not my scene. So, someone should let me know when they find out. Thanx, that would be a mystery solved. For every guy that’s trying to ‘crack’ that scene; there’s a fem going ‘damn, what do I have to do to get some attention?’ So, all things being equal - does this mean we’re all delusional?
Gotta go, there’s fun things happening on Planet Astrea.
I seriously had to bite my tongue on that statement he made.
I find slingblades statement rude, ignorant and prejudice. Judging a persons opinion and advice on their sex is the same as judging someone because of there race.
I find it very insulting especially being the mother of two sons and a coach. Its just one more reason women dont stick around this forum much.
No offense RAD, you know most times I am right with you on your opinion but I have heard you make this argument before and I just dont buy it. That was your experience with a handful of women who probably didnt even know what they wanted and how to get it let alone how to help you get what you want.
I can search this forum now and find at least 100 jackass bone headed opinions and advice the males have given but I dont judge the advice or the knowledge of a whole gender on those few ignoramuses. That would make me ignorant as well and its definitely something I am not nor are the other ladies in this forum.
No offense taken. I agree that the way he worded his opinion did come off a bit…misogynistic, but I do stand on the opinion that most…not all, women tend to give advice that is usually counter productive for what the male being advised is looking for.
You are one of the few exceptions to that, that I’ve come across over the years.
Case in point, in another thread you stated quite accurately that women need space and too much attention can feel smothering. I wholeheartedly agree, however most women I know/have known would give the opposite advice. Their advice on that would be based on what they think would make them feel attractIVE, and thus validated, but not on what actually makes them feel attractED. Many women have said that the guy should call asap when he gets a number, shower her with gifts and attention, pay lots of compliments and spend as much time with her as possible.
All things that (initially at least) make her feel wanted, attractive, liked etc. But most women either don’t go for that guy, or they get bored/annoyed with him very quickly.
As I also said in the post, but seems to have been overlooked
Which I believe should clarify that not all advice from women is bad or inaccurate, but that when being advised one should consider the source. Same as if one is being advised on how to be better with women by a guy that’s always alone.
I know you have been clear in the past and I didnt miss it in your above post. I appreciate that but unfortunately not all see with clarity. They see a statement like “women think they know what they want but they dont” or women bombard men with bad untrue advice to trying to make men into the proverbial nice guy from someone they trust and thats all they see and they apply it to all of us. I have experienced the negative effect in the forum because of these beliefs in this forum myself which is why I spend less time here then I used to.
I agree the but in this forum I have rarely seen a women tell someone to shower women with gifts and attention or do any of these things. I agree saying just be yourself while said with good intentions and without other guidance is not helpful. I have seen many men in here say “just be yourself” or “just be confident” as well. However when they say it their opinion may be judged but not there gender. I dont say men give bad advice about relationships because I dont agree with what a few have said. That’s disrespectful to the men in here who do give great advice and I have learned much from many of the long time male members here. I certainly would never say something like “who cares what the men think” Of course I care, its caring what they feel and think that makes me understand them.
I will admit its a subject that bothers me and ultimately thats my problem to solve. I am not quite sure why it bothers me. I will figure out why though, I always do.
How about A WHOLE LOT? Like, TOTALLY? And totally ridiculous into the bargain.
“Hey, I’m a hetero guy and I wanna girlfriend. But you know, who cares what women think?”
Keep in mind that, while I have said, “Be yourself,” that doesn’t mean not to make yourself the best you that you can be. If all you want is ONS, fine. Do whatever you want.
But if you’re looking for the love of your life, that girl you’re gonna be with forever, then you’d do better to listen to those of us who’ve managed to find our knight in shining armor and been with him awhile (through thick and thin, for better, for worse, richer, poorer, sickness and health, for, oh, I dunno - TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS, maybe?). You might just find we know more than you think.
Now I have no been privy to every conversation you’ve had where you offered advice to men on women and relationships. So far all I know you may be an exception to the hypothetical I’m about to put forward.
While it’s possible, and even probable that when women give the advice “be yourself” they may very well mean “make yourself into a better more naturally attractive person” But if that’s not specifically stated, a person doesn’t know what you may “mean” or not mean.
If I tell a guy “be yourself” and really don’t expand on that, he’s probably going to just continue with things as they are and eventually come to me saying “You told me to be myself and nothing happened.”
If I defend myself with “Well I never said not to make yourself better.”
That’s like saying he should follow the advice I didn’t give as well as the advice I did.
Now, because it’s next to impossible to communicate with voice inflection through text I want to state that I acknowledge your relationship and I respect your opinion as a mature woman, who has no doubt seen and heard every type of come on and pick up line in the book, and as a woman who has had a long, happy and successful relationship for quite some time.
(the first line is because I hate when people assume I’m being sarcastic or insincere)
However you have to realize that most (not all) but most of the guys that happen across these forums are young males ranging from their late teens to early 20’s. Some are looking for girlfriends, some may just be looking to be a little more successful at dating in general and actually want to play the field. In which case advice on how to be an ideal boyfriend/husband quality man may not be helpful if they’re just wanting to approach and get dates with women they meet at clubs. It doesn’t mean your advice is “bad” but it doesn’t mean their wants are bad either. Remember, for every guy that just wants to go to clubs looking for an ONS, there are women at those clubs that are ok with it. Doesn’t make either gender wrong, those women may eventually grow up and want something more substantial as will the men along the way.
Now to Tisha, you know I would never knowingly say something with the intent or knowledge of it making the forums uncomfortable or unpleasant for you, so if anything I’ve said as advice to others has contributed to that, then I offer my most sincere apologies.
I know full well how people (of either gender) can read a post of several paragraphs, focus on one line or sentence and ignore the rest, taking the one tidbit out of context and to a ridiculous extreme. This is why so often you may notice I’ll include many addendum’s, disclaimers and exceptions to the rule (usually in parenthesis ) to try and make sure the advice is taken as a balanced guideline and not a cast in stone absolute. I do it often enough that I feel self conscious that my posts may become unnecessarily wordy or annoyingly long. So to be sure and clarify if I haven’t enough, we seem to agree more often then not, however even when we disagree, it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect your opinion or hold it in high regard. I do, and moreso than most people of either gender.
Maybe because reasonable people generally assume that most people will try to better themselves as they go along? In fact I have on several occasions made statements to the effect, “Be yourself, but be the best self you can be.” And you know that.
And I think I said, if you’re just looking for ONS, have at it. Only know the dangers of that lifestyle and don’t come back complaining here when you get VD. Or worse.
But when older men are coming to this thread - men in their 30s and 40s and more - looking for advice from a kid barely outta high school, that’s a different thing, RAD, and you and I both know it. Like Tish said, you follow this advice, you get girls barely outta high school. Talk about creepy.
And I knew better than to look in on this thread. There’s a reason why I quit following it weeks ago. Raises my BP too much.
Thank you Rad and I am not offended by what you said. I think I am more concerned about the part I bold-ed out because it happens all to often. I know it becomes tedious to write disclaimers and clarify all the time and I dont expect that from anyone. Its hard to convey and be sure people understand what you trying to say in a forum setting sometimes.
The guys here are incredibly fortunate to have you here. My being bothered by the subject is my problem. Its not caused by you because you always approach the subject and all subjects with respect, clarity and sensitivity.
Ok, I’m gonna offer a piece of my recent experiences to hopefully ease the pain of the bolded statement. Sorry, Boo, since we’re in an LDR and I’m only gonna get pregnant by proxy; I have had a couple of dates.
The last couple of guys, have been so attentive, that even walking down the street became a battle. Just walking so close that to just see who/if there was anything on the other side of him was impossible. Literally having to outmaneuver him, just to walk! Sitting in a cafe and not even having the chair I’m sitting in to myself is . . . distressing. Not being able to reach for sugar without my hand being diverted when I want sugar in my coffee, is annoying. Turning my head to look at a cute pair of shoes on some chick, and when I turned back, nearly gave myself whiplash pulling back from a face to close to focus on his eyes . You get the picture. I spent the whole time telling these guys to literally back up, move over and WTF are you trying to scare me to death?!
Too close and too much is bad in the beginning. Don’t walk so close I can’t “feel” you out. Sitting too close tells me there’s no room for me. Stop touching me and reaching into my personal space without giving me time to ‘recover’ or ‘process’ how I felt about you touching me 2 seconds ago - you don’t know me like that. Yet. Too much too soon is too hard. And that’s exactly what I said. Please move over. Yes, you’ve made it clear you’re into me, but stop telling me what you want to do to me. Since I haven’t reached a decision on how I feel about you. That just comes across as creepy. AND I told them that. AND they didn’t listen. Nevermind the rest. Dating sux. I can’t deal with it and it’s depressing. If a fem tells you something, listen. Not just to the conversation, but to the requests. I asked last nights’ guy to stop talking about what he wanted to do to me before we got out of my street. The night ended with me going: Are you f**king kidding me? I’m done, I’m going home. I’ve asked you repeatedly to not say things like that and I’ve had enough.
Astrea sounds like you are having a hard time finding what you want in a man. You just gotta be firm with your standards and not budge on what you are willing to accept in a man. The same holds true for both men and women. Why should someone change who they are or what they are about in order for someone to like them for who they are? They shouldn’t. Eventually you will find a good man that is not a push over, yet is not so arrogant that he does not respond to simple requests. And as for to sticking to just booty calls. They definitely are fun. I have come to the conclusion that I do not need a woman to make me happy. I am happy with the way my life is and how I have done so far is just good enough for me. I want some one who wants to be a part of my life not some one who wants to be my life. I have met girls that I was definitely in too and were not clingy but I always find something wrong with them. I am shallow as hell which is part of my problem but I have gotten better. That is why I have been just relaxing and living my life. If a super amazing girl comes into my life that I end up falling in love with great. If not, oh well my life will go on.
I don’t have a list, Jabez. When it comes to people, I accept who they are to me; if that’s not compatible, then it’s all good. Momentary frustrations / disappointments aside. No, there shouldn’t be any NEED for anyone, just the choice that you WANT them in your life.
Sadly, with all the game running; I’m not interested in anyone. I’ve just been informed that the last disaster (guy) in my surroundings that I was CONSIDERING starting something with, was running a game. I thought he was just too Washingtonian to be honest and ripped him a bunch of new ones, deleted his number and his friendship on a social network.
ALL of you PUA guys NEED to realise: Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, there’s someone who WANTS to play with YOU and doesn’t need to be gamed in. I realise that’s probably not gonna be a lot of fems, but the game that was played was unnecessary, stupid and mean. I also haven’t let anyone get any closer than your “openers” since then because I’m completely fed up and suspicious of all of you.
I wonder if it’s because I’m from Oz? Culturally speaking, the games here aren’t variations that I recognise when they’re played at me. When I find out guys have been gaming with me; they burn all their bridges and get deleted out of my life. Literally and permanently. No second chances.
So, no. I’m not dating. I talk to a lot of guys; but if any tiny thing makes me think twice (so far, there always is) Dovidendya, hasta la vista, auf Wiedersehn, go jump. Super amazing people don’t just wander into your life - you gotta be their kind of super amazing. For me, that’s the opposite of shallow. Anything less is unacceptable. I appreciate straight forwardness; even when the question is “Do you wanna fuck?”. When I give you an answer - don’t keep asking the same question! Because then, I think you’re deaf as well as stupid; and if the answer was ‘maybe’ it will become no. If the answer was ‘yes’ and I get bugged about when 5 mins later - the answer will change to ‘no’. And there will be no further contact. I see the bugging as childish behaviour; I don’t want to spend time (let alone anything else!)with someone who makes me think of a kid in a supermarket bugging their mother for treats!!!
Yeah, I know. But this woman is an Eastern European Australian living in America.
Yes, my confusion level is high, and I have more important things to do than try and figure guys out. Sorry, that kind of time wasting is not for me. I got better things to do - a root canal, for instance.
And it’s not a dance when your current dance partner has no clue of the person in front of him, makes no adjustments to his processing, trips and falls; dragging me into a mental bullshit heap that just leaves me feeling disappointed and mentally dirty.
Until further notice, I’m on a permanent ‘bye’ from the pathetic ‘game’. Nothing personal to anyone; but my disgust takes time to fade away.
That’s actually super interesting, I would have guessed that would have gotten most guys a big slap in the face, lol. Might have to try that one some time.
Dude NO!!! That was in Oz; and fems have to be more tolerant of ijits as a matter of course. Here, you’re likely to get your face backhanded, head knocked off, and punched in the guts! Americano chix don’t play nice (as far as I’ve seen) and won’t take that kind of suggestion either well, with humor or in a tolerant frame of mind. You’ll be seen at the very least, disrespectful. Don’t you dare get yourself beaten by a bunch of angry chix on the warpath over something that I shared.
I’m so sorry that you had delusional fems feeding you garbage. Women do want ‘nice guys’ just nice, multi dimensional, confident guys. I personally don’t date assholes, there’s too many in day to day life for me to put up with that shit. I’ve also had years of ‘bum’ dating advice from guys. Which ironically, is just as bad as the fem advice.
Since I haven’t reached a decision on how I feel about you. That just comes across as creepy. AND I told them that. AND they didn’t listen. Nevermind the rest. Dating sux. I can’t deal with it and it’s depressing. If a fem tells you something, listen. Not just to the conversation, but to the requests. I asked last nights’ guy to stop talking about what he wanted to do to me before we got out of my street. The night ended with me going: Are you f**king kidding me? I’m done, I’m going home. I’ve asked you repeatedly to not say things like that and I’ve had enough.
True story and yes, I did.