How to use mones if Ugly?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

From what I can tell, most people on this forum are already pretty good looking and have what it takes to attract women. I’m willing to bet even without mones, most people here are good looking enough to get by.

This is concerning me because I’m not that physically attractive face wise, and I find whenever I’m using my mones, it’s a waste.

  1. A few nights ago, I went out with my friend and his girlfriend. Sprayed 1 spray of TUTH 2x on as we were going to a bar. The whole rest of the night she was horny as hell and all up on him, unbuttoning his pants and kissing him (which she doesn’t regularly do in public)

  2. Tonight I go to a club with the same two, had on 2 sprays IS and IO, 1 CTTM, then added 2 sprays TUTH 2x. and AGAIN, the whole night, women were going up to HIM, and approaching HIM (he is much better looking than me). And I know if was the mones because this never happens to him. He was even surprised. He was the star of the show just because I was around with my mones.

So no matter where I wear my mones it seems, women may be affected, but they’ll associate it with the more physically attractive guy, I find. And I don’t want to hear anyone say that being ugly is all a state of mind and just to be confident etc… it’s not about that, there is such a thing as good looking and bad looking. My friend isn’t confident at all, always down in the dumps, depressed guy, and I’m the more lively fun one. But obviously as u can see from tonight, they went for him anyway, associating my mones with him.

It makes me so angry. The only way I can think of to effectively use mones is if I’m alone with a girl, in which case, I’d probably have the same chances as if I weren’t using any mones anyway.

2

Looks isn’t about everything. I used to think I wasn’t good looking at all. It took a while for me to realize I was. I started getting compliments about my looks here and there. But really how my attractiveness came was when I realized my strength and forgot about my “weaknesses”. I can honestly tell you physical attraction matters but it’s not everything. Physically, I dressed well, groomed consistently, worked out, and improved myself overall. Even after all that, nothing still came. I thought to myself that it might be a lost cause, no matter what I try or what I do, I would still be unattractive to women.

A couple of years back I started just not to care and do my own thing. I was working, my career was taking off, I was still taking care of myself and doing what I had to do. I still had internal self issues and I was still insecure about myself, but it was a heck of a lot better than it was years ago. It wasn’t until I met this girl that it showed me that I was attractive to women. We’ll call her Michelle for privacy sake. Well Michelle was easily an 8, very outgoing very alpha personality. When I tell you it was jaw dropping gorgeous when I first met her, I was like OMG I am in love. Long story short, I was fishing for validation from her, which she gave. The chemistry was awesome, the sex was great, everything was falling into place for me. I fell in love, but I was needy, I couldn’t handle a girl of that caliber. Self-Issues and doubt kept surfacing. Long story short, she got fed up with it, and we haven’t talked since.

I went through such a big phase in my life that I was depressed. No matter what I did, and no matter what I tried, I couldn’t pick myself up. It also didn’t help that I had depression for years and never dealt with it. Eventually I went to therapy, took some drugs, became better, got off the drugs, had some issues still. However the key thing was I was progressing forward.

I was going out, meeting people, going all over the place. Recently, I’ve been in the best shape of my life, with a successful career with plenty of road blocks and had genuine fun. But every time I went out all my friends were getting with girls, and I wasn’t. I was stuck as the wingman or the odd man out when everyone went to meet up with all the girls they were talking to. Talk about a major hit for your confidence.

I started using pheromones and I was like ok this will give me an edge. Problem was, it still happened to me. People who weren’t using it were still getting ahead more than I was when it came to women. I started to seriously question what my value was and got very down on myself. Because I was doing the whole self improvement, I was still doing pretty good emotionally. I kept going and kept trying to improve. It wasn’t really until I read other people’s experiences and put all the peices together. I had all the right tools to be something great, I was just putting them together wrong.

The moral of the story is this. Believe in your value. Everyone has something to offer to the table, highlight your strengths, and don’t let your weaknesses put you back. If your looks is really an issue with you and there is no way around you thinking otherwise then realize you can’t change that. If you try or dwell on it, you’ll just be filling your life with negativity. Negativity does no one any good. I’m sure from here, you have a good heart, great intentions, and an awesome personality. You have to make sure you sell that about yourself. Would you get shot down by women? Well yea, everyone does, even my best looking friends get shot down. Does it bother them? Not really. You know why, it’s because they view it as the other person’s preference. You can’t have everyone like you, it’s just not possible. That’s just the fact, some people have types, and some people just are interested in a specific type of person. There is nothing absolutely wrong with you. You bring the confidence to the table knowing that you have something great to offer and it will show in your body language and people will believe you are of someone with value. It all starts inside. You have to like yourself first before others can like you. Women love someone who’s in control and know what they are worth and what they can bring into a relationship. Based on what you wrote alone I would gather that you’re probably not using the right tools that you have in the situations that present themselves. Pheromones will only take you so far. You really have to start taking this seriously and go for the fact that “hey maybe i’m not the most attractive one out there, but I can sure be an understanding and caring man” You show that and you BELIEVE in that and legitimately believe that, then you will find doors open to you that you once thought wasn’t possible.

We play this game called life, you can’t win cause we all die. You’re not going to beat it. But while you’re living it, make the most out of it. Great things come to those who earn it. By earning it is working on your state of mind. Things that are worthwhile won’t come to you just because you have money/dress well/look good/etc.. unless you actually believe that.

Check out Tony Robbins - Awaken the Giant within.

Best of luck to you my friend.

3

Great post P51. Very authentic, and from the heart.

I just wanted to add a couple of things here for Masu.
You don’t have to be the best looking person out there, you just have to be the best version of yourself.
I’m not the best looking guy out there IMO, but I get my fair share of compliments. I am still over 200 pounds and only 5’ 6 1/2", so I am overweight. However, I am “attractive.”
How am I attractive?
Let’s break it down to a few different areas.

  1. What counts…
    I am funny as fuck, I did stand up for a few years and I’m quick, sharp, and women and men love that about me.
    I am upbeat and positive wasn’t always the case, but I’ve changed my whole outlook on life.
    I am passionate about things. Want to win a girl’s heart, talk to her about something you’re passionate about. It’s contagious, watch her face as you bring her on a joy ride of emotion as you tell her about just one thing you completely love. Could be a hobby, a movie, a book. I remember telling my girl about seeing the Blue Brothers in concert and how I was such a huge fan as a kid. She started to get the DIHL, basically went into trance because of my enthusiasm.
    I have a life. Women want guys who have lives. They don’t want to be your world. They want to think they are your world, but know they are NOT. Be busy, constantly, it gives you value.

  2. Appearance…
    I dress nice but appropriate for the occasion. Even if I go to a bbq, I’m wearing a nice pair of shorts and a great t-shirt, with nice shoes on. SHOES ARE HUGE FOR WOMEN Get you some great shoes and make sure you have belts to match.
    Get a couple of really nice dress shirts, don’t wash and then let them wrinkle, get them to the cleaners and pressed. A couple pairs of really nice jeans.
    Good advice I heard, “THINK EXPENSIVE.” They don’t have to be, just look the part. I have found a lot of great deals at Neiman Marcus, KOHLs among other places. $60 shirts for $7 on sale.
    Another piece of advice I took to heart, when you leave the house, dress to be ready to meet someone special.
    Grooming I shave daily. I don’t feel confident unless I’m clean shaven. That’s just me. I feel as though I walked out of the house without a shower. I’ll talk to people, and work the confident vibe, but it’s a mental hinderance with doubts playing in my head “are they looking at the whiskers?”
    Get a good haircut. Don’t go to Supercuts, save the money and find a great stylist. One of my regulars at Starbucks moved to New Jersey, this is how good the girl I go to is. This regular flies back from New Jersey to have her hair done by the girl I go to. How much does my girl charge? $20, I tip her $5 plus bring her, her favorite drink, and every now and then as a token of my appreciation, bring her a box of Chai Tea.
    Get your teeth whitened either professionaly or buy the Crest Strips.

Eliminate all those small nagging issues and you can think about the really important inner issue stuff.
There are many in the PU community who you’d be amazed that can pull women. Mehow calls himself an aging, balding albino, but he’s one of the top PUA’s in the community.
There’s a gentleman who is a dwarf and has a bone density issue he breaks them all the time. He’s in a wheelchair, he pulls 9’s and 10’s right and left. How? Confidenc, congruence, and being the best possible version of himself.

My girl is hot. My best friend still to this day will look at me, then her, then me again and shake his head. We were at a concert one night and I was teasing her and talking about what I fell in love with the first time I saw her, I said her ass.
I then made a comment pointing at my “sexiness” and saying something like, be careful and you can’t have any more of this and she waved her hand up and down and said, “I didn’t fall in love with that.” Then pointed at my head and said, “that’s what I fell in love with.”

Keep your head up man. I know, I know believe me. I still am working on my own inner issues, and its one of the reasons I fucked up with a very confident, beautiful young woman, just like P51 pointed out in his post.
But I keep moving forward. Each day is a lesson, each person you come across is a teacher preparing you for the next.

You will find her, they will come, I promise you.

Edited to add a pic of Mehow:

http://charmingrogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/picture-8.png

There’s worse pics of him, just google him…LOL

4

Two excellent posts from P51 and Gent for you there Masu. I don’t think I can add a lot more. :slight_smile:

Oh and I’m no looker - no not at all.

However, I do ensure I am well gromed and turned out, and I too have worked very hard on as many other aspects of my personality, behaviours and body language as I can in the last couple of years.

It does work, eventually but it can seem a long slow hard road. Pheros are only part of that - In my case, they were the last part of the jigsaw to fall into place.

5

Okay found the other guy, because I think this is important that you see him.
His name is Sean Stephenson and he is a PUA. The first time I saw him was as an audience member in one of David D’s DVD’s, he has since moved onto other things including teaching pick up.
The guy is very accomplished, he’s an author etc. His name is Sean Stephenson and this is his site.
“Time to Stand!” program and presentations by Sean Stephenson (http://www.timetostand.com/)

and this is him:

http://i.dailyherald.com/stories/145/normal/145463.jpg

This guy picks up babes. So don’t kid yourself, you can too.

6

You brought up an extremely important pooint… BODY LANGUAGE.
Something women pick up right away. I have to remind myself throughout the day to pick my head up, hold my shoulders back and walk tall.
There’s a lot that goes into what makes us attractive, but in the end it’s fun. I know I say that a lot in my posts, but it is…life is fun.

7

Generally people that obsessed with his face, body, they are in depressed mode.
YOur vase is shattered.
You have to put together this parts.

Im a manic-depressive.
Im a handsome guy as seen on my picture.

But, when im in depressive mode, trust me, im not good looking, i think my nose are a bit long, my chin is a bit longer, my eyes are too big.
and i don’t want to do anything, anythingggggggg, i do not want!!! - ( so you do not want to read books , you do not want to learn body language, because yo dont want :slight_smile:, after you feel great, you will read all of them i know :slight_smile:

Im saying not only you but also all pherotalk users.

Think a man who fears from darkness. You can say, hey there is nothing in darkness, don’t fear , nothing inside.
But you can not overbeat it, whatever you want you can not.
because , problem is inside your brain.
Go to a doctor and say, i don’t like myself, everytime i go outside, i think about myself, it is bothering me tooo much.
we have a big opportunity , we have doctors.
go one of them, this problem can be fix very easy.
it will combine the shattered parts of your vase.
while you are in medication, you will see, you don’t obsessive your look, face, and learn there is nothing to obbessive.

after you get help from antideprressants - ( trust me you will only use it max 8 monhts i think )
now you have the power, try opening womens, use pheros , and you will see you have to power and nothing to worry about.

after 6 months, you realize that, hey really i can DO it.
now you learnt.

your doctor slowly cut of your medicines, to get you to normal life.
now your vase is combined.

im using medicines, will use them forever.
because im bipolar.

but was my first diagnosis was social fobia, minor depression, Obsessive compulsive disorder etc.

you wont be mad, if you go psiciyathrics.
im advice you.
you will see the power of YOURSELF and pheros work with you.

you have problem with your face, not your fault.
because TV’s , fashions, societys foresights make you sick.

also ughly girls have obsessivee, because they grow up with barbies, and they attach/appent the description of beautiy with those barby girls.

now first go to a doctor man :slight_smile: its not your fault.
use pheros, confident with yourself, go bars cafes , find your girl, enjoy your life
when you look at your past, you cant believe yourself, because tabos of your self gone away, you do not need medicines anymore ( of course you will decide it with your doctor))

dont fear of using medicines.
everyone taking them, diabetes, tyroids,gastritis,reflux, obeses, mannnnnnnnnnyyy.

you are GREAT :wink:

i want thanks, i wrote it with my bad english :slight_smile: im from turkey.:slight_smile::slight_smile::slight_smile:

8

Good shit.

9

All great posts, you guys are boss. The truth is that for a girl to really find you ‘beautiful’ it takes confidence and polish, but sexiness is about guts. The more you believe in yourself and FEEL sexy the more girls pick up on that. I’m not talking about ego, but a true concept of self-worth. Because you seem like an honest and valuable human-being, so this would be easy for you with some direction.

Some mones have great self effects that will help buffer self confidence and I’m curious to see what the above posters can suggest? :slight_smile:

10

A314 has been it for me.

For added boost momentarily to get that going has been Instant Shine.

11

A314 hands down.
IG was good, I still have not worn that enough to see how well it works over time.
Back to A314. After applying drops behind my ears and along my jaw line, I take what’s left and smear it under my nose for even more self-effects.
I wrote up a post the other day about how I felt utterly non-reactive to a female customer who did anything and everything she could to be emasculating and push my buttons. It was like shit test bootcamp during a 5-10 min interaction.
It almost reminded me of those scenes in the movies from the 40’s and 50’s when the woman would start beating on the man’s chest and he’d just stand there for a few seconds let her get it out and then grab her hands, pull them behind her back, look her in the eyes and then give her a deep hard kiss…that’s where I was mentally.

However, I also understand I need to play the part too. So I remind myself throughout the day to work on tonality, body language. If I have a customer who comes up and is speaking quietly and I start to lean in to hear, I stop myself and stand up straight, almost leaning away from them and ask them to repeat themselves forcing them to come to me, whether physically or vocally by speaking up.

But my overall experiences with mones has done wonders for me. In that it has made me excited about the possibilities, I am like Neil Armstrong in The Right Stuff, pushing my boundaries with testing, seeing how far I can go.

That excitement, fun, and enthusiastic look on things causes people to respond to me favorably, therefore building my self-confidence.

12

As much as I enjoy mones and their self-effects and effects on others, I always have the end-goal to use mones for special occasions. I mean that although mones can help you tremendously with confidence it’s not confidence/attraction in the bottle nor should it be treated as such, this will only cause an addiction like dependency LOL probably a good thing for androtics.

The real confidence/attraction comes from YOU. Think about all those people who don’t need mones (minus celebs) and exude charm/confidence. It’s all about how you put yourself out there. pretty much like Garbage IN Garbage OUT analogy. So you can’t start using Mones without a strong foundation, just like a well built skyscraper. First you have to build the steel frame/skeleton and then you add the exterior.

I myself don’t have the best game but I feel like everyday I’m working to improve myself. I’m not trying to be someone I’m not, just a better ME. I do this by attaining new EXPERIENCES, because I strongly believe each experience makes me a more knowledgeable person which in turns makes me more confident and thus attractive. I also set goals that I work towards and again this builds self-esteem. This all leads to building a system of value for yourself that YOU believe in.

Also don’t ever be afraid to fail in anything IN FACT often look to fail because I learn so damn much more by failure than I do by success and it builds my resiliency which tells me FUCK MAN I can and will get through anything that life throws at me.

Here I am rambling, but I hope something I said struck a chord. Don’t look for BIG changes right away. Start small: get in better shape, dress better, make more eye contact and chit-chat with people, start new projects or join new clubs, MAKE NEW FRIENDS!!

13

Wow guys! THANKS for all the responses. They are all very genuine! You guys are the best.

To make things clear here, I’m not saying I think I’m ugly and because of that I can’t pick up girls. I’m saying there are absolute values in terms of beauty (this has been proven w/ golden ratio etc…), and I can recognize that yes, my friend is better looking than me in that regard…

BUT my problem is that because he is ‘better looking’, when I use my mones around him, he’s the one who gets all the looks and the attention. He didn’t have random women coming up to him before I started using mones, but just after two nights with him, women were dancing up on him, and his girlfriend got horny as hell, unbuttoning his pants in a pool hall. These were all irregular behaviours and I knew they had to do with the TUTH I sprayed on myself. But if a girl smells the mones from a couple of meters away and subconsciously looks our way, because he’s better looking, they would gravitate towards him.

I know body language and confidence have a lot to do with it, but in this case, as I stated in my first post, I’m the fun dancer and the lively one, and he just stands in the corner all depressed. It just seems like my energy and my mones bring the women closer, and when they get close, they choose him because of his looks. That’s just what I’ve noticed.

Again, I’m not saying ‘oh, i’m so ugly, so I can’t get a girl’, I was just wondering about how often this could happen, that my energy and TUTH could be ‘misplaced’ as coming from someone around you who is better looking?

I remember I was on the bus on the way to the club with my friend and his girl last night, we were sitting at the back and this girl was sitting a couple of seats down but facing us (she didnt seem to notice any of us). When no one was looking I put on a spray of IO, IS, and CTTM. I swear maybe 1 minute later this girl starts to look up at us. She looks at all 3 of us shyly, then starts focusing on him, then looks down occasionally, starts to stroke hair at regular intervals. Now I know the mones had something to do with that because she didn’t look up before, but she did soon after I put them on. so all I basically did was alert her to look at my friend. This is kind of what I’m talking about. I’ve given about 3 or 4 examples so far.

I apologize for having such a misleading thread title, but I was pissed off when I got in last night when I created it. I don’t think I’m ugly and do feel I can get girls if I’m motivated enough. My problem was my friend getting hits off of my mones because he’s better looking, even if I had a better vibe and better energy.

14

Have you and your friend made a wingman pact or spoken about this openly to each other? Maybe he feels the same. If you two go out as a ‘team’ maybe there’s things you can do to share the attention.

Ex: if one of you starts to get the lion’s share of the attention than that person can bring attention to the other. You’d be surprised how well something so simple works but you have to be open with your friend.

Have you let him in about the mones? I have made sure to arm all of my wingmen.
(Even if you don’t think he needs them, it would be good for the sake of hanging together)

Hope this helps! :slight_smile:

15

If that’s the case, as far as I know there’s only a few options. When around your attractive freind don’t wear mones and just use your charm/personality to attract the ladies. This is where your Inner game comes to be crucial.

The other one is to Use mones ONLY when your not around this particular friend otherwise it’s just a waste of mones and if you do happen to run into him make it a short meeting/distance yourself so he won’t get the benefits of your mones. This sounds a bit harsh but If he’s really bothering you then you have to do something.

As for your Golden Ratio Good Look theory/Symmetry (yes I’ve heard of this too), but YOU have to understand NOT ALL women fall for the same guy, it really depends on the women’s preference lots of times based on their culture/location. I get occasional looks over here on the east coast (w/o mones) but when I go to Cali, way more IOIs.

16

If he was with a girl, he’s already more desirable with women as a point of social proof. A woman wants him there’s gotta be something special about him. Think about it this way, if you were engaging them both in conversation and made yourself the center, soliciting responses from both of them equally, what do you think that would bring to the table? Shell be thinking, “this couple respects this guy and is obviously fun and of value” shell instinctively think, what is it with him that has them treating him that way. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me, you sprayed and let the mones drive the ioi and not let it enhance what you were doing. It seems you were looking for proof that hey this works shell look at me instead of him. But if you let your interaction lead in to the mones you sprayed then I believe the situation would have been reversed. She probably checked him out because he was congruent with the signature, its what would make logical sense in her mind.

17

Well, I had a pretty lengthy reply typed out and accidently closed the browser somehow. But in short, great posts guys, even helped me out ALOT, Thank you for that. And to Masu, Thier words ring true, Its GREAT advice to heed.

18

Wise words here. Social proof is very important and if you follow P51’s advice you can use your buddy and girl he’s talking to as social proof.
One way you can do this is by “locking in.” You want to be the one seated at the bar leaning back, or leaning against the bar with your back to it, and them standing in front of you leaning into you. With this kind of body language, from everyone elses stand point in the room you are the one they are interested in talking to.
It’s the way you want to be talking to women too, that way it looks like the woman is hitting on you instead of the opposite.

But like P51 stated, you can also use this couple to show others in the room that people enjoy your company, you are the life of the party and they should want to be in YOUR circle of influence.

He may be copping your mones, but you can in turn cop his social prooof…LOL

19

Yeah thanks everyone. Mustang, I know what you mean, but him and his girl didn’t really do anything to suggest they were a couple, on the bus, nor on the dance floor. Maybe they had a couple ‘vibe’ I don’t know. But of course, I understand the whole concept of social proofing, but I’m telling you, this guy was just in the corner, looking drunk as hell, depressed, dead. He came out to dance once or twice, but other than that, I feel I had an overall better and more attractive vibe. So I feel that my mones mixed with his looks brought the women to him. I did feel I was more congruent with the vibe I was trying to send, yet the women around us kept dancing closer and closer to him.

20

You and P51 are on fire today, thanks guys. Social-proof is the best thing to augment the pheromones especially in a bar or club setting. I think especially with IS, the locking in method is extremely effective. I like to have my back to the bar anyway because I’m short (5’5") so I can straighten up better. It will give you the posture that helps show confidence.