Looking for that last "pull"

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hey all, fairly noob user here, currently own Instant Shine (trial) and Turn Up the Heat, both 1x. Little to mild reaction to the Shine, still working on the “right” dose, haven’t had a chance to really experiment with the Turn Up The Heat yet.

For a complete rundown on my situation, read this thread.

For the down-'n-dirty, after ten years my wife has stopped being attracted to me. I do know that it’s not completely a sexual thing as we both have been under a lot of stress lately. Luckily, we have been communicating a bit more in recent days (Shine work, possibly?) and she has been more open and friendly. Not lets-bump-uglies friendly, but at least she’s not hunched in the corner of the couch reading constantly anymore.

Quick rundown of her long-term situation, not mentioned in original post: She was sexually abused as a child, and has had therapy for it. She honestly believes that she is completely over it, although I’m pretty sure that no one is ever completely over something like that. Nevertheless, I never force her to do anything, and try to be as gentle and caring in any sexual situation. Trust me, there were times in the beginning of the relationship that were NOT pretty, but I learned her “triggers” and learned how not to hit them. That’s also when she got the therapy.

Next hurdle: She has only had sex with two men, myself included. She has NEVER had a vaginal orgasm, something that concerned me until I found out that the vast majority of women normally don’t. We have tried different positions, techniques, etc. to no avail. However, she does get her orgasm, preferably several times, via play and oral. I take care of my women, dammit. The few times that I concentrated on her g-spot (yes, I can find it, gold star for me) to try to give her a “vaginal” orgasm with fingers or toys, it was enjoyable until she ended up with severe stomach cramps that pretty much ended any sex for the night. I have wanted to go to a OBGYN that specializes in sex therapy or some other specialist, but we don’t have the money or insurance.

For the record, before anyone asks, I’m 6’3", average build, 185lbs., blue eyes, black/brown hair, 7 1/2" long and pretty thick, and I have to insert really slow if it’s been a while (2-3 weeks or more), she’s that tight.

Back to the situation: She has actually used the phrase “sexually incompatible”. I have been with several women before her, and I know that I sure as hell haven’t found that “perfect fit” sexually that leads to mutual mind-blowing orgasms every single time. But I do know that I enjoy being with her, both sexually and otherwise, unbelievably more that anyone else. I honestly believe that the current situation is either stress or depression based. However, if I can’t convince her that she can be attracted to me again, she’ll never get over that hangup.

So what I’m looking for is a mix that will give that last “pull” towards me. We’re communicating, we’re cuddling in our sleep (but she doesn’t want to cuddle normally), but if I come on to her I believe her defenses will go up and shut me out. I need something (or a combo of somethings) that will turn her head and make HER come onto ME. I don’t think I need the social 'pheromones (Shine has opened her up a bit I believe) as much as I need her to be turned on. I am not even looking for “who’s your farmer” sex (kudos for those of you that got that reference), I just want her to be able to look at me and realize that she does still want me after all of this time.

My current idea is Turn Up The Heat combined with Instant Female Magic (back in stock, YES!, just not in trial sizes yet, dammit). Another thought was Turn Up The Heat and A314. I’m open to suggestions, even the experimental mixes. And if someone out there has custom-mixed a “come rape me” combo and is looking for a guinea pig to see if it works for other men and/or situations, I’ll gladly try it.

And before I get a lot of replies telling me to dump her and move on, I honestly believe that she is my soulmate, and that this is just a dark spot on an otherwise wonderful, open and happy ten-year relationship. Anything worth having is worth working for. If it absolutely has to end, then I want to know that I did everything in my power to try to save it.

Sorry for the super-long post, but this is by far the most knowledgeable and informative group I’ve found and I need help.

2

Hi Txironhead. Really good post. Thanks for the info. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of responses and a lot of very helpful advice from the guys. I just want to give you a girl’s bit.

I’d recommend sticking with the socials, like Instant Openness for now until you get used to using pheromones and she gets used to you using them. I’d stay away from all the Androstenone products as long as she still has issues because they can come across as aggressive and threatening. The exception is during her mid month ovulation time (if she is ovulating), since ladies seem more tolerant and attracted to Androstenone at that time.

When you are a little more experienced with pheromone use, there are several other products I’d like to recommend to you.

Meo-Est is number one on my list, but you’ll need to go slow with it at first and make sure your wife reacts okay to it. Around 100 - 150 mcg of Meo-Est for ladies who are responders is happy sauce. It makes ladies feel very sensual and it has a bit of timeless quality. Warning: It does make for very intense dreams for the first few weeks of use.

P102 is relaxing and it stimulates undefined hunger. For me, that translates to sexual desire. But if I am wearing P102 and don’t have sex with my husband, I end up physically hungry and I raid the fridge. So, monitor that when you first start trying this pheromone. 5.0-12.0 mcg P102 added to the Meo-Est causes butterfly excitement in the tummy, and pleasurable body rushes. And it is relaxing.

Beta-Androstenol is another that I’d recommend. At lower doses it promotes meaningful and deep discussions. At higher doses, when added to Meo-Est and P102 it adds a timeless and mystical quality to lovemaking, as well as a feeling of being deeply bonded and safe, which can translate to some very nice deep relaxation. At 100 or higher mcg Beta Androstenol can give you the feeling that you are being watched over by guardian angels. It is an awesome, awesome pheromone for promoting feelings of security. 75.0 - 100.0 mcg is the dosage I recommend when wearing with P102 and Meo-Est.

Wearing these three together, Meo-Est, P102, and Beta Androstenol, with a small dose of TAF, around 10.0 mcg, can reset the whole relationship. TAF has the quality of making everything just like new, like the first time. This can lead to renewing your feelings for each other, as well as giving back that first blush and spark. But be careful to test the TAF with your wife before you add it to the others. A few unfortunate people get increased fight or flight with TAF. So, check to make sure first. That is not the reaction you want.

I hope this was helpful. Please continue to let us know how things go, and good luck!

Diane

3

Diane has given you some really great advice on pheros, but I don’t really know that pheros are the answer.

I’ve read through both your threads and have to say that I truly feel for you and what you’re going through. My initial thought was that there was somebody else in the picture, but I don’t so much think that after reading through everything you wrote.

You have not mentioned how long things have not been going well in the relationship, but from what you have said I am assuming that it’s been quite a while.

It sounds like you’ve been doing everything you possibly can to improve the relationship and situation between the two of you, but I think that you just might be trying to hard, and she’s not opening up or sharing because she knows that she doesn’t have to.

At the very least, I’d not push the sexual issue, cause I think it goes a lot deeper than that, and the lack of physical attraction or desire is just a symptom of whatever it is that’s really causing the problems.

I would agree that depression is a strong possibility. Even though finances are an issue and you said that since you didn’t have the money she wasn’t willing to see a psychologist to determine what might be the underlying problem, there are free and low cost services available, so cost should not be a prohibiting factor. In the Houston area free services are available at the Harris County Psychiatric Center.

I’m far from an expert when it comes to female pyschology, but it seems to me that as long as she knows that you’re always going to be there and doing everything in the world to try to hold the releationship together and make it better, she doesn’t have to put forth any effort herself and is content in wallowing in whatever it is that’s bothering her, without opening up and sharing.

I understand that you might find this advice a hard pill to swallow, but I think that it might be time to pull back some and let her feel that you’re at the point of feeling that you’ve done all you can and now it’s up to her to either come out of her shell and try to make the marriage work, or to let it go and throw away the last ten years.

I could be totally off base, and if I am I welcome anybody reading this to call me an idiot, but I think it’s human nature to avoid sensitive or uncomfortable issues when one feels that there’s no real NEED to, and it just may take jarring her a bit and showing that it’s time for her to either open up and share what she’s going through, and put forth at least a bit of effort in making things better, or to let the marriage deteriorate into nothing.

I wish you the very best in making things work. It does sound like a bump in an otherwise long and happy marriage, and hope she’s able to see just how hard you’ve been trying and decides it’s not something to give up on.

4

I feel for your situation. I know it can be frustrating, and you should be proud of yourself for sticking it out, and researching methods for making your relationship better.

Diane and Mark have given you great advice. One thing you will come to learn is that many people on this forum truly care, and try to help others.

If I may, I would like to add my two cents here. Sometimes for me, it is easier to explain things using an analogy. My analogy is to think of a loving relationship like a bucket. The type of love I am referring to here is romantic love. The kind that a couple finds in one another that makes them want to spend their lives together, and share a romantic bond with one another. Ok, back to the bucket…

Every time you do something that your partner feels good about, that meets one of their most important emotional needs, you are adding water to the bucket. Depending on which emotional need you meet, and how, defines how much water you are adding to the bucket. When the water gets to a certain level in the bucket, the feeling of love is achieved.
Every time you do something that annoys your partner, or the result is that your partner does not feel good about it, you are taking water out of the bucket. You can also analogize this to poking holes in the bottom of the bucket, if the behavior is constant.

Emotional needs in people change with time. We all have them, but when we grow as human beings, as situations in our lives change, so do our emotional needs. We rank these needs within ourselves all the time, subconsciously. For some, their most important emotional needs may be financial stability, an attractive significant other, satisfying sex, affection, and meaningful conversation. For others, it could be coming home to a clean house, with dinner on the table, an honest relationship, a committed significant other, the ability to have fun with the other, and admiration from their significant other.

Factors that contribute to poking holes in the bucket can be just about anything…leaving your dirty socks on the floor, working late, making annoying comments, not communication effectively, etc.
In any relationship, there is going to be a combination of all of these things going on at the same time, such that the bucket is constantly being filled, and at the same time, drained.

To make a relationship successful, you not only have to find out which emotional needs your partner has, so you can fill the bucket to overflowing, but also how to plug the holes in that bucket, so it doesn’t leak.

The thing is, that when people start a relationship, they are giving, and giving, and giving…it is so easy to fill each others bucket. As time goes on however, as the bills pile up, as people climb the ladder of success, as children come into the picture, the time we spend filling that bucket becomes more limited. The leaks in the bucket also increase, as we tend to become less concerned with whether or not something we do is going to annoy our partner.

As people get older, as situations change, needs change too. It is incumbent upon the couple to roll with those changes, figure out what their partner’s emotional needs are, and fulfill them.

Given that time spent together usually becomes less frequent, it is important to make the time spent together quality time. It is important that the couple engage in open, honest communication with one another. It is not only important for you to fulfill your wife’s important emotional needs, but for her to fulfill yours.

Counseling may be in order, and I know you mentioned low finances, but ultimately, if it is worth it to you, you will find a way to afford it.

I wish you much success in repairing your relationship, and hope that this post is somehow helpful to you.

5

Cheapest prices for combo, travel size when possible:
Meo-Est 112.5mcg 5ml $66.97
P102 12.5mcg 5ml $28.97
Beta Androstenol 87.5mcg 5ml $56.97
TAF 10mcg 30ml $41.97 (lowest dose was 12.5 in 5ml)

Grand total:$194.88USD :open_mouth:

But, hey, free shipping!

Hmm…any way of getting more free $25 gift certificates?:smiley:

Mark, the problems have been going on for about 10 months. Completely out of the blue, we were a happy lower middle income couple with normal stresses like bills and such. Other than a car payment and the rare late fee, we’re almost debt-free after a long comeback. No kids, pretty easygoing work schedule.

Therapy/counseling would help, I agree, but if she doesn’t want to go or doesn’t believe it will help it’s pretty much a moot point. I believe my insurance covers marriage counseling (I’m the only one insured, unfortunately, or I’d have her at a psych office already to test for depression) but I’m still researching that.

Omegabyte, I completely understand the analogy. However, no matter how fast I fill her bucket, I’m losing ground. I have taken a long, hard look at myself and I honestly don’t see what I could be doing that would cause leaks. She herself has said that it’s not me, it’s her, but she really won’t elaborate. Meanwhile, I’m having to worry about my own bucket slowly draining dry.

I really wish I knew what triggered this whole thing. It was rather sudden, took less than a month to completely degrade the relationship, so I’m thinking that there was a single cause, but hell if I can figure out what it was, and she’s not saying, or she says that this has been going on for a while.

I’m nearly 100% sure that there’s not someone else. For one thing, we did try the “swing thing” a couple years back and it didn’t really work for us. For another, her work schedule is fairly rigid and she comes straight home after work. Considering her workplace, type of work and location, a quickie just isn’t really feasible. If someone else is/was involved, it was probably more of a suggestion than an act, if that makes sense.

Believe it or not, I really think this does boil down to a sexual issue at some base level. She may honestly believe that we’re not “sexually compatible”, she may have lost any sexual interest in me, she may think that maybe she can achieve “normal” orgasm with someone else, or this may all be somehow related to the abuse issue (likely, IMHO).

One thing that may shed some light on our personalities, we’re both pretty open to new sexual ideas, and early on we discovered that we were both dominants. We’ve done mild BDSM on each other, but since neither of us is submissive or switch, it’s fairly limited, but we have both expressed interest in possibly finding a submissive (or two, since she didn’t know if she wanted a male or female sub) to play with, but we haven’t seriously looked for subs and the opportunity hasn’t presented itself. This is not an ongoing trend and it’s been a LONG time since we’ve even played dom ourselves, but it may offer some new insight on the issue. Or be completely unrelated, who knows.

We’re both normally outgoing people, and in public her personality hasn’t changed a bit, matter of fact my family recently had a gathering and she was as happy and bubbly as ever. As soon as we got home, it was back to the routine. She has been more talkative lately, which has helped.

6

If you are patient and continue to report on your pheromone usage, you can gain reporter status. That comes with a substantial savings for these products.

12.5 mcg of TAF is fine for a to-go.

As for your wife’s reticence to reenter therapy at this time, I’m counseling patience here too. Sometimes we can only go so far, then need to take the time to gather strength for the next go 'round. That is especially true for childhood issues. Usually a break from therapy precedes some very intense work and awesome breakthroughs, especially if she’s had some successes in therapy in the past, and has a therapist she trusts.

Diane

7

Well I would hope so! :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

Sorry Diane, couldn’t resist. LOL

8

The way I look at it, I’ve invested ten years into this relationship. I don’t expect a quick cure, and I’m definitely willing to put the work into making it last, even if it does take a while. It’s well worth the effort. She is an incredibly wonderful person normally, my entire family loves her completely (has never happened with previous relationships), and even now every time I look at her it takes my breath away.

9

You’ve already invested a lot of time and effort into trying to turn things around: nearly 1/10 of the entire relationship so far! Unconditional love and making every effort is great, but I think it’s time for another strategy.

From your writings, I can tell that your self-esteem is suffering: You are trying to figure out what you did, you are trying to improve your looks, hygine, her talk of sexual incompatabilities and thinking that she may believe somebody else could satisfy her, etc. You need to realize that these things are NOT the issues and stop punishing yourself.

Her perking up and acting normal and bubbly in public and unhappy and distant at home also bothers me. I’m having a hard time deciding whether to think the facade shown to others is because she loves and is comfortable enough to only show you her true self, or it’s something more devious.

You say that the problems have been going on for 10 months and completely degraded in less than a month, yet she says it’s been going on for awhile. Is it possible that you were wearing rose colored glasses and missed earlier signs and indicators of something being wrong and it took a real slap in the face before you actually saw the problem?

Or do you think she could have been hiding whatever the issues are for awhile and letting them build to the boiling point before letting you see there was a problem?

Regardless of everything above, I still have to go with my gut instinct and say that you’ve been doing everything you can to try to fix the problems and get the relationship back on-track, and it’s time to pull back, because while I could be wrong, I’m just getting the feeling that the harder you’re tying, the more resistant she’s becoming.

And while it’s clear how much you love her and want to “make it work”, there will come a point where you will start resenting her lack of effort and unwillingness to share.

You did say that she has a rigid work schedule, then comes stright home to you. While this could backfire and she could actually meet someone else, I’m thinking that she may need some time away and to get out on her own a bit, like going to a club with friends, a girls night out, movie, etc.

Some time away could give her the opportunity to think about what she really has and whether she’s really willing to let it go, as well as channeling any negative feelings or work frustrations in directions other than toward you.

She should see how you talk of her to others!

10

That is so awesome! You lucky guy! Do you have any Instant Openness or Instant Honesty?

Diane

11

No, and right now can’t afford anything other than the TUTH and trial of Shine I already have. Finances aren’t being kind right now. I’d love to try those and either some A314 or IFM to put her more at ease so the IO or IH could work better. Maybe I can afford it later, hopefully.

12

Wanted to post a personal thanks here to all of the people that have given me their thoughts and advice on the subject. I may have found a therapist (specializes in couples, post-abuse AND sex therapy) that may accept my insurance. I’m waiting to hear back on the insurance issue before talking to my wife about it. I have given props to everyone I can, sorry if I missed anyone.

I’ve decided to stash the TUTH for a while in hopes of using it someday soon (relatively speaking). I plan on getting IFM, IH and IO. I’m continuing to use the IS now that I’ve found my “zone” with it. I’ve had a lot of recommendations for the IFM + IH combo, but I’m going to have to get used to the effects of IH so I can shut up and let her talk and not start blabbing and piling my woes on her too fast. I’ll wait on the A314 until later. Now, if I could just afford the IFM…every time I catch it in stock I don’t have the money for it! Androtics is torturing me!

Hopefully, if everything works out, between the counseling, a “boost” from the pheromones, and some opening up on her part I can have some hopes of seeing our 11th anniversary…

13

Awesome! Good luck!

Diane

14

That is great news, txironhead!

15

Well, finally broke down and talked to the wife about the therapist, pheromones, the whole enchilada.

Good news is she’s agreed to see the therapist and is actually looking forward to seeing if he can help us.

Bad news is it appears that in our current situation the pheromones have had absolutely NO effect on her. Maybe a very slight influence occasionally but there are way too many factors to determine. Oh, well, they work on other people! It’ll be interesting to see if she reacts to any of the blind testing pheromones…