i find clarity comes from hearing yourself say how you feel, especially when you have opinions that oppose eachother.
so let me ask…
for the guys here on this forum, all of whom have to be to some degree looking to improve or play with the social interaction, which is more desirable:
a woman who is foreward and confidant OR
a woman who (although beautiful/hot) is quiet or waits to be approached ?
and, how big is the factor of beauty in relation to the confidence factor?
women clearly put confidence at the top of their list. where do men stand?
finally, if you meet a woman clearly wearing 'mone mixes, you imediatly think- what?
The Mind is numero uno…
that’s the critical distinction for me… does this person have a strong mind ? Does she think for herself ? Is her emotional intelligence balanced with her abstract intelligence ? Is she resourceful ? What is her taste in people, in ideas, in culture… in short, what are her values ? What sorts of distinctions does she make ? Is her thinking flexible, curious, lively, adaptive ? Has she read much literature ? Can she see things from differing points of view ? Can she even think in terms of differing points of view ? Can she hold a conversation at length without looking at her cell gadgets ? Does she have a sense of history ? Is she well attuned to the nuances of her environment… as they say in Special Forces school, does she have a high degree of situational awareness ? Can she read between the lines ? Does she pick up on multi level communications ? Can she manage having convictions without being opinionated ? Does she think the world revolves around her or is she attuned to the ebbs and flows of the social matrix ? Does she have a range of emotional colors on tap or is she only one or two basic emotional states all of the time ? Is she courageous, does she have real grit and spine in there, or what ? Does she have the strength to walk away from bullshit if the cost to her sense of integrity is too high ? In other words… can she be bought, or can she not be bought ?
Puh that will be difficult to express in english for me… lets have a try. 
Okay this is a very personal thing.
I can you tell my opinion about that. So i can say there are 3 things to put on the scales.
- A womans appearance
- A womans character (confidence, humour, …)
- A womans intelligence
We are talking now about a real relationship not a one night stand or that crap okay? Because in that case you can just throw point 3 away and point 2 is almost meaningless.
In a real relationship all points have to exist. The loadings can varry. If i have a damn hot girl, its okay if she is not that intelligent or confident or so. If i have a very confident girl with her heart on the right side she mustnt be a supermodel and i would truly prefer her. BUT the loadings got limits. If the girl is ugly and stupid like hell, there is no chance.
Dreamgirl: Damn hot, extrem intelligent, and a perfect charakter. Where is she?
You know what i mean?
PS: I personally think that confidence makes a girl sexy. Sometimes more than her body. Or was it the mones?
Hope you could understand enuff.
Ciao
As “The Man” would tell me to, I am “shutting my gob TOTALLY” on this one, Lor.
I think we’ve made OUR position on the other side of the coin plain, so this could be a unexploded bomb… ^_~
You bad wee minx, you…
Ail 
I can only speak for myself, and I may not be all that helpful because I don’t think I’m typical of every other male in the US. I vote for “Forward and confident”… but one can be too forward and most notably, too confident. A woman who is overly confident makes me think I’m being played or that there’s more going on than what I’m noticing, so I’ll be more cautious and observant. If I’m pressed to make an immediate decision by her as far as sleeping with or dating her - which i have been in the past - I will definitely say “no”, because I’m generally a suspicious person.
I think all women are beautiful, but I don’t think all beautiful women are sexy or attractive. And I should also note that when i describe a woman as being ***HOT, *I’m not talking about her looks - it’s a combination of things. Don’t expect me to be as poetic or metaphysical (ahem… wordy) as Tacitus, but I’ll state that confidence is not a determining factor. Think of it as being near the bottom of a long list of details on a checklist - for example… no wedding ring? check. got teeth? check. less than 9 kids? check. is her butt smaller than mine? check ** etc etc etc.
sex. here. now.
Bad wee minxes are hot - and bombs are intended to be dropped.
I, for one, have no problem admitting that I just don’t get the “other side of the coin”. I understand it “academically” and “clinically” but I haven’t experienced it. Maybe all the women I know and work with are unusually superficial (which I strongly suspect, BTW) but seeing it laid out in writing would be much appreciated.
Pick a thread, almost ANY thread..
Lor and I have been “fighting” some of the males of this forum on this issue for a LOOOONG time now, 'cos you know, we ARE women, and we got more than a tad hacked off with all the people here who think that “Kino” (as I said before, "oh puleeaze..), “using the right moves” (umm..why?) and all these silly-biscuit “Playa” routines that just make us LAUGH our asses off at the guys trying them, actually work, when in fact, they are NOT the way to go - and sometimes have us running for all we are worth in the opposite direction!
I am not in the US, and I am aware that guys and gals here are very different - in EVERY way when it comes to dating and mating. (Scots’ BS detectors are VERY sensitive… ) That was proved within a week of me being here, but Lor IS in the US, and we are in full agreement on this one.
Dead-tall as I am and teensy and feisty as she is, we makes a good team, we does…
But..what do we know?
Apparently, we are lying when we tell you all we put looks way, way, WAY down the scale, so hey, have a ball with those threads, Gabe.
Ail
When it comes to physical attractiveness, men and women tend to end up with partners who are pretty much at their same level. Because of that, it’s pretty much a moot point as to what people of different genders claim to be attracted to.
The Brad Pitts will still end up with the Angelina Jolies, regardless of whether the Angelina Jolies truly believe that it was confidence that drove them to the Brad Pitts.
Umm..no!
Allow me to nix THAT one right now.
My friend, who I have mentioned here before, is absolutely drop-dead gorgeous, with a body to die for, and her husband of 9 years is most definitely much less than gorgeous, 2 inches smaller than her, and has the completely opposite temperament to her.
But I guess11 years, and 3 kids down the road, they are a bad match..huh?
I think NOT…
Do NOT generalise, please.
Nothing on this earth drives me more nuts than when people do that.
Ail
What if your friend is an exception? Something to consider! One example doesn’t change something which is so common for everyone to see. Needless to add I agree with SyraBrian.
On second thoughts…my post seems combative…I want to delete that, but someone might have read it already, so I will leave it there, no offense to you Ail.
Peace!
There may be more to him than meets the eyes of those without x-ray vision. Dick Cheney’s not good looking, but he’s a legend, if you know what I mean.
Ail;
I tend to agree with your position with one small caveat, you. Lor, and other the women that come here are a little “more gifted” in the brains and wisdom department (proven by your scientific interest in ~mones and your posts). I don’t use the “moves” often described , but I can see where they would work on shallow, dull, or inexperienced young thangs (and that’s what most of the guys around here are chasing anyway). Perhaps with age and experience, some of them would wise up and run for the hills, but…
And yes, the women I tend to chase would fall into the same catagory as you and Lor and Dolly etc rather than the ones who would fall for the “moves”, so I had better not use them.
so far im intrigued with the answers here.
i guess i thought confidence would play a bigger part (more hands-down) but it seems to be relative in relation to everything else, a recipe.
hope to hear more comments.
no doubt that we as women see things differently then alot of the guys, i was hoping a spin on the confidence vs timidness / beauty vs confidence and what overrides what in priorities would clarify or even nuetralize some of the generalities. also, im still real interested in what men think when they see a gal they like, walk up to her, and having worn 'mones themselves recognise the chick is wearing them too… whats the first thing you think of her???
I must be one of those exceptions too!
I’m definately not Brad Pitt (or David Niven), but in college I was dating both “Miss El Cajon” and the first runner up for “Miss San Diego” at the same time. Later I was living with a “Miss Nude California” my current girl friend is knock out gorgeous, especially for a 63 year old. She gets hit on regularly by 30 year olds. I have never gone out of my way to attract particularly “pretty” women as I prefer “brains”, but have ended up dating beautiful women all of my life.
what do you think your secret is?
do you see a common thread with these women outside of their beauty that may characterize a type?
this is a very interesting situation to me.
do you feel personally you have a trait that is overly developed that would account for your fortune (other than your fab personality of course )?
If I knew, I’d bottle it and become rich. I know that personality and brains outweigh boobs in what I’m looking for. I show that preference and treat women like “people” ( I’m not sitting there with my tongue hanging out panting) and I guess it just lets beautiful women relax. Either that or I’ve just been incredibly lucky!
First question to pop up in my mind will be, is she active on the forum too? If then what is her forum name?
very honest,lol. right on.
I have to say I really like confidence, but it’s not what makes or breaks the deal. My ex was as timid as they come, but her beauty was such that I was attracted enough to wait for her after class and say hello. She wasn’t a classical beauty, though, she simply had all the features I happen to fetishize. (Mainly long, natural red hair, freckles, and full lips.) Those features are damned rare, so when I see them, I have to act.
Most of the time, I like confidence because it makes it easier to get things going, and I admire strong, confident women. The more I admire and respect a woman, the more attracted I will be.
Generally, looks don’t go along with the kinds of personalities I prefer. I love looking at beauties, but I can’t stand arrogance or egotism. Doubtless because I am arrogant and egotistical to enough of a degree that they grate on my nerves.
Methinks Ail has in her mind a vision of what “kino” is that’s more fitting of the type of guy who wears leisure suits and bumblingly makes a fool of himself time and again in lounges. We could call such a guy “Liesure suit Larry”. He thinks he’s all that, and comes off as fake and full of shit. Only a desperate woman would go for it.
I don’t consider myself a PUA in any sense of the word, because really, I suck at the approach. I’m really good at dealing with people once I have the ice broken, though, but not every kind of woman can I communicate effectively with. I tend to work best with the emotional types. When I say “kino” I mean touching in a way that is gentle, and conveys what I intend to convey. That could be “I care,” or “I want you to ask me for it by name,” or “I love you”, or “I’ll be here for you”. Depends on the circumstances, and the woman. Ail, you seem to think the word “kino” automatically denotes a loser who can’t get anywhere with women unless he applies bullshit tactics. On the contrary, it just means touching. Everyone will have their own style of touch. YOU can’t generalize if you don’t want us too.
No, Ail knows exactly what kino is thanks very much. Ail is a doctor (now a teaching one), remember, and as such is in touch with ALL of these “programmes,” such as they are, since they regularly hit my desk at the start of term-time with oodles of their creators wanting to come and speak to my students!
I TEACH, and have taught for almost 14 years now Kinesiology, in the way that it SHOULD be used, in the realm of health and fitness. What HAS been done to a fine art, is that some jokers basically sabotaged the basic training, and altered it to make it seem like some empowering “chick-attractor,” and yeah..that does make me disgruntled..
Using Kinesiology as you all appear to use it in the US, doesn’t work over here, which is one of the main reasons I do NOT have these people coming in to speak to the students.
I have read so many testimonials from guys and women in the US, who apparently do use these programmes with fair success, but here in Scotland, people are FAR TOO STRAIGHTFORWARD for it to work.
Scots are seriously the most wary people you will ever, ever meet.
For example: I for one am NEVER sold on anything until I see results for myself, and that is why I find it so easy to be objective when using 'mones, as I don’t care what other people say their results are, I go with the results I get.
Look at IS, for example. It does absolutely zip for me, but I bought it expecting nothing because that’s the way I test everything, so I was not unhappy. I might still add it into mixes to see what happens, but it’s not something I’ll use, whereas Lor, adores it.
Not to say something won’t influence the buying decision for me, but when I try anything like that, I just forget what people have said it will do, so I have no preconceived notions. I am suspicious of everything, but also curious enough to try anything (almost) at least once.
That is how I found my latest fave product in fact. Amazon Passion Anointing Oil. A couple of people here told me about it, the price was more than right, so I was willing to give it a go, and man…it’s incredible! it works like literal magic.
Anyway..sorry Lor, didn’t mean to blow, but spending years learning and perfecting - then TEACHING an art form, only to see it reduced to “Kino” on websites here and yonder, has driven me quietly nuts for a long time now, and my silent suffering only goes on for so long, as you know..^_~
..and now for me, CSI, then bed as it’s almost 1 AM here.
Ail