Hello everyone!
I made a copy of the Google spreadsheet that has been floating around for the last year which outlines the effects of various mones.
This copy, however, allows ANYONE to edit and save the document! So we can use this as an unofficial Wiki of Mones that we as a community put together.
In respect to readability, it’s probably best to use bullet points instead of sentences/stories.
This is a interesting idea as long as its kept within the community. Only problem I find is not every person has used a molecule/ MX extensively enough to offer something worth editing into this spreadsheet.
As long as we try to keep subjective/biased clutter out of the spreadsheet it should be okay.
Yes, I copied the mix guide and made it so everyone can edit it. The link that you point to can not be edited by everyone (only 10 people can edit it).
Good Goddess… I hope Pheroquick was asked if this was ok first. He was kind enough to share his spreadsheet with others but its not really right for anyone to be able to edit it. Pheroquick did a lot of research in the forum and looked for patterns
There is also one big draw back to this kind of data compiling. It gives people preconceived notions as to what the products do and then they go and spend there money expecting those results when many of the results are subjective to the user.
You need to be able to see all of the reports and data and find the pattern to really understand what each molecule actually does and how it works. Providing a spreadsheet just causes the illusion that whats posted in it is a explanation of the molecule and can cause more confusion and misinformation.
If you want to understand pheromones then pick one and research it yourself. I realize there are those who do not want to buy a molecule before they know what it does but do a search on it in the forum. Read all the reports. Many of them will be different but look for patterns. Common consistent reactions. This will tell you more then having some spreadsheet any tom dick or harry can post in.
I agree with Tisha. Though it’s a nice idea to have the spreadsheet, if anyone can edit it then there is no control of variance of reactions.
It might seem like a small difference but in my mind a spreadsheet showing patterns of results (like the original was) is very different from one which is essentially no different from the forum in that anyone can type anything (like the new one).
e.g. I could type in an entry saying something does nothing for me - is my opinion or experience representative? No it’s not. Is it invalid? It’s not invalid either. However someone searching the forum for the same product will find a wealth of information and experiences that shows clear patterns of which my experience is an anomaly.
If I am the only one to put into the spreadsheet my experience of that particular putative or MX however then it totally skews the data. Although having all the info in one place without having to search and read through posts would be nice, I don’t think it should be done unless by someone who compiles it themselves and has read the posts thoroughly to account for variances in behaviour and extraneous circumstances that may have led to reactions, so those can be discounted.
Wow such backlash to help share data. I think this forum is great. The people and the atmosphere and of course the very real effects of the pheromones is a valuable and unique community.
But reading through scores of posts full of long overly detailed stories (and poor grammar and spelling) in order to find patterns is a bit much for me and many others. Not everyone is a Tacitus.
I can understand that maybe a Wiki would not be good for Androtics business. For example, in the store, many of the Putatives, say P102, have NOTHING written about them. This forces the customer to go the forum, search the forum, and become a member of the community. Good for business.
Also, while all the information is out here in the forum, the hard work that the people at Androtics do to sift through it and find patterns to create mixes (e.g. there must be some master spreadsheets and other information that Androtics does not share with this community). I understand why Androtics would not want to share this information.
I just want to have some idea what every pheromone, putative, mx etc… does and to see it on a couple of tabs. Wouldn’t that be great?
Even it’s not “official”. Forcing the user to have to sift through hours of what P102 should be step 2. Step 1 would be read a quick “working” (read: may not be true) description.
All that said, if I somehow pissed off some Androtics mogul, that was not my intent. I just think there should be something in between the forum posts and what’s in the store (i.e. a Wiki). If you want me to take the spreadsheet down, I will.
I know the idea was well intentioned to say the least. I guess theres some of us here who think it will help in the short run but be harmful in the long run.
Presumptions, preconceived notions, and generalizations are the most dangerous mental ideas the world has to offer IMO. Its quite hard to untangle the pervading lies/misconceptions superfluous within a subject in order to find information that is more solid or perhaps objective to the cause.
I’m not sure I would call peoples opinions a backlash at all. Tisha has very well intentioned points, just like yourself .
You have to consider some of the things she is saying, but in that instance maybe make one yourself for yourself. Say you have 60 brand new people come on and write that TAA is for sexual aggression and then someone expects that. It would be wrong first off, not to mention that maybe you would skew that persons opinion of mones all together when they don’t get the aforementioned results from a product not designed to do that.
But that is not to say this isn’t still a great idea either. I’d love to see PQ’s spreadsheet updated too. Perhaps sequester him to allow more “seasoned” vets to continue to update. The inherent flaw that I see with allowing anyone to update a file is you don’t get the patterns that are needed for accurate portrayal of said molecule. You get a bunch of contradictory statements that would only add confusion.
I know of several times when certain members had adverse reactions to molecules and while they were limited to only a few, I think it would be a good idea to include positive and adverse. So yeah go and do what ever it is that you want, but understand the limitations of the entire spreadsheet concept to begin with. It has to be based on trends or all you get is a voluminous spreadsheet that by your own standards you would have to spend hours sifting through data and bad spelling. So what makes you think it would be any different then?
I started the spreadsheet, but others - I think particularly Visionary - have added to it.
My own opinion is that in order to tell what is significant and noteworthy one needs to have some years of pheromone experience as well as a good sense of the underlying mechanisms. Not everyone is a tacitus… Democracy is the enemy of excellence. So in a sense it might be better to allow editing only by people that fall in to this category. On the other hand members of this group of people don’t necessarily have the time to keep the spreadsheet up to date.
On a different note, I do think a best posts section would be very helpful. It’s very easy for insightful observations to become lost.
For one it was not back lash it was my opinion from years of experience being a member and the former moderator here.
Its not that its not good for business. The advanced products are for testing by forum members as explained in the store and numerous other places in the forum. Here are just a few referances.
Testing is more accurate when you dont have preconceived notions as to what the molecule does. It is a bit of a task and confusing to look it up in the forum, read everything and figure out the pattern but that very fact makes for more accurate reports on products and in turn more effective mixes for the consumers to use. I have a spread sheet for every molecule here thats a mile long from my own research and the reports from other experienced members but I dont post it because I know it will influence the reporting and in the long run make for crappy mixes. My friends and I spend money on these products because they are excellent so you can understand my wanting to maintain the accuracy as close as possible in a forum test environment.
I also understand where your coming from as well. You pay more for the products then I do if your not on the reporting members list and you would like to know what they do before investing. There is no solution other then going back to not allowing newbies to buy them like it used to be that I can think of.
You do realize that all you have to do is go to the top right hand side of the screen and hit advanced search then type in P102. Choose posts or threads. I pick threads myself because you can usually see by the title of the thread if its a report or not and it will list all the reports on that putative. Its takes about 10 to 15 minutes once you get used to it not hours.
Even better once you know who the advanced users and testers are you can search out posts just by that person and molecule in the advanced section. This way your getting information for the experienced users.
This way you can see other factors such as the users gender and age, the environment they used it in. How they used it and other important factors that indicate what effect the molecule is having.
Again its not backlash, you can do what you want I am just giving you my opinion on it. If I had never done the research to begin with and just went by others spreadsheets with limited info I wouldn’t be a pheromone expert. Frankly I am greatful to every member who has taken the time to test and report correctly. If they hadnt the products would not be as good as they are.
Testing is more accurate when you dont have preconceived notions as to what the molecule does. It is a bit of a task and confusing to look it up in the forum, read everything and figure out the pattern but that very fact makes for more accurate reports on products and in turn more effective mixes for the consumers to use.
Reading is good, and as we work our way around this forum we gain more insightful information that personally more weighted. I only want want our community also being about Objectivity over subjectivity. I don’t want to really get to deep into this, but there is that button that’s in the top right hand screen and it’s a good tool, some of folks may have to take time and… As already memtioned there’s many other variables, and factor that should be considered.
Frankly I am greatful to every member who has taken the time to test and report correctly. If they hadnt the products would not be as good as they are.
