Would it be practical to have a section exclusively for “combos” or “recipes”?
It could even be divided in to “types of situations” or “types of effects”, or something like that
And maybe even recommendations for the various age groups, since peri- and post menopausal women have might have different pheromonal needs than women in their 20’s, in order to achieve the same effect or outcome.
Sort of like a “recipe” section.
There could even be a format, for example:
Actual Ingredients which would include:
each pheromone/product needed
number of sprays or mcg’s for each, and
where/how to spray/layer each
drying time of each, in between layers, if indicated (ie, stinky cops first, let dry 15 minutes before next thing)
Effect which would include:
Self-effects
Target type of person, or type of person best used on (age, gender, relationship to (ie, LTR vs. stranger)
Effect caused (ie, an impression of authoritativeness/respect, an impression of efficiency, an impression of trust, an impression of “take me do me right here right now”, an impression of helplessness, etc, etc)
Recommended type of situation/location:
ie, At work, in an interview (I did see some for that, even broken down to male and female interviewer!), at a large gathering, at a smaller gathering, one on one, etc.
Recommended age group and gender (of wearer)
Recommended personality type (of wearer)
ie, Are you naturally assertive and outspoken? Or perhaps a little shy and easily intimated/reluctant to speak up?, etc..
This can make a difference, for example
Recommended refreshment rate:
How often and what to be reapplied after what interval to keep desired effects at same level
Substitutions
If someone doesn’t happen have all the “ingredients”, things that could be substituted to still cause the same/similar effect
3 sprays Instant Sexiness/A - one to wrists, one to hair, one to chest/neck
1 spray MX 300 - to chest/neck
Effects:
Self - more confident, less sensitive, slightly bitchy
Target person - any age or gender
Effects on target(s) - they shut up and don’t talk back or try to argue with you
Recommended situation/environment:
One on one (so far, haven’t tried it in a group setting)
Anywhere, particularly around rude, bossy, loud people who think they know it all
When you know your supervisor wants to “speak with you” and since she’s an unpredictable witch, and you need to be prepared, just in case it gets ugly
Recommended age group/gender of wearer:
Mid-40’s (works for sure), may work for other age groups as well (maybe reduce dosage for younger people??)
Female (don’t know if it works for males)
Recommended personality type of wearer:
Mostly Type A personality who is also sensitive to loud, rude people and doesn’t always stick up for herself when she should.
Recommended refreshment rate:
After 4 hours, one spray of IS/A and one of MX 300
Yes, and those look wonderful! In fact, I can’t wait to try them when I have a better “stock” of ingredients!
I was thinking along the lines of everyone contributing, even if they’re just simple combos with 2 ingredients…or crazy complex ones with 20…and of course they need to have been tried by the author/creator more than once, to ensure consistency and accurate repeatability.
Or maybe members can rate the recipes, and post comments on each one, sort of like on allrecipes.com and recipeczar.com (even though those are food recipes.
Or, we could just go through the entire forum, and “pluck” them out from their random places, and organize them. Don’t know if that’s allowed, though, or how huge a project it might be. It might be fun, though, and of course educational!!
I guarantee something like this would initially have to be an individual’s effort to get it rolling. Tisha and Steve do not have the time for such a project.
This is a good idea, and if this were only a community forum, I’d think it was an excellent idea. The problem is the forum is really designed for pheromone user support and for us to report on and discuss the mixes and pheromonesas testers.
And although Androtics may take some of our ideas and incorporate them into future test mixes, that isn’t what they are trying to do here.
It kind of defeats the purpose to come and get recipes for things like Putatives and test mixes that Androtics is trying to get tons of (hopefully minimally tainted) testing data on. It is hard to collect data from testers and wade through what might be placebo effect as it is. But with enough reporting users, usually the placebo effects can be sorted out.
Some of us test Putatives and Test Molecules as blind as we can, before going and doing any forum searches to try to dampen down the follower effect or placebo effect. Some of us do some searches, choose items and then test them against the reports to see if we can get the same results, while trying to be aware of the potential for influence. And some do both.
None of us can completely get away from the potential for placebo or follow-on effect, except through tons of repeat testing. But we can keep trying.
Yes we are looking for Data on each individual advanced molecule but once you test and report on those individually you can post mix ideals. recipes and share them. In fact we encourage it.
This site is about research and development but it is a community and we do share more then scientific data.
I have been seeing a trend of people telling other members where to post and whats appropriate for the forum. Unless told by Administration or a Moderator disregard these suggestions. I know the suggestions are meant well but they do not always match the mission or guidelines here.
So if you would like to post a thread on this or round up mixes feel free to.
I would help but I am recording molecule data onto spread sheets so I don’t really have time.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, Tisha, but I believe I’ve seen something of the same advice from you regarding new members looking for specific data on putatives. I could be wrong, and it could be that this was brought up on the men’s side. Or maybe it was Jasmine talking about tainting the data pool and how they go about trying to rule out the follow-on and placebo effects. I’ll try to look it up and see what I can find.
This was specifically about putatives, but with test mixes and mixing putatives and/or test mixes with consumer line products - the issues with social placebo effects and tainted data are the same.
This is really not that big a deal. Even if there is enormous social follower placebo effect, eventually the data will correct, if a) the testers are given enough time, freedom, and opportunity for all their divergent experiences to come together into one bigger picture; b) if there are enough testers who are testing test mixes and putatives one by one thoroughly; and c) all the testers are encouraged and allowed to report their findings, whether positive or negative, without censure.
But it adds a lot to the amount of time it would take for an accurate picture to be built up of each of the putatives and test mixes.
OK you asked, Your wrong. We never ever asked members not to post recipes. We never asked them to not layer. We asked them to test them on thereown merits first. Says so right in my signature and in Visionaries. He never said not to layer or come up with combos that work and post them.
Yes you did cite those posts and there are more of them but how is having a recipe thread skewing results Diane ? Where did sillykitty say lets give false information. Where did she say anything about using just putatives.
You are totally misrepresenting what Jasmin is saying. Your taking what she has said on one subject and trying to make it fit the way you would like to see things done. I know your scientific minded and its great, I love your posts. You like Data and facts. So do we but we are about more then just Data and facts, Pherotalk is about people. We want members from all demographic and education levels to share there experiences with the molecules. Some of the best data comes from the " average guy/girl using the product in everyday situations.
The problem is not with people posting recipes of the mixes they use. She has always encouraged that she has even conducted contests for the best mix.
Its with people skipping over the testing and reporting Phase of each individual molecule which should take at least one full to-go bottle alone to do. Its not testing them on there own merits First but on the merits of what others have reported or layered with other products before you report on them Individually.
Take your own sensuality mix. Some of those molecules you never reported on individually. You posted the mix on the open forum and no one asked you to stop. Warren posted his and no one asked him to stop. I have posted some and so has Steve with the ICM mixes We may have questioned what you were using in the mix to find out why your using it and why the you thought the molecule was acting a certain way but to my knowledge unless you were asked privately by Jasmin (which I would know) you were never asked to not post your recipes.
I am well aware of the time factor it takes recording accurate data for the putatives. I have recorded enough of it myself and one of my biggest frustrations is when I look at a member who has not tested or reported the molecule on its own bit jumps straight into layering. I know this makes it hard for Androtics but its not what sillykitty was suggesting. A recipe thread would in no way harm the data collected. Don’t think because I am not “employed” at Androtics that I do not work here what I do is work believe me but its a labor of love and I am fiercely loyal to this company and its mission. I am loyal to the members and have often said that the members are who I work for. This why I am passionate on this
You go on up to your quotes and show me where Jasmin states. Do not post mixes or recipes. Show me where she states that the posting of mixes or recipes has skewed the testing data.
She simply asks for a honest opinion of each molecule tested on its own for a period and tested on its own merits before you begin to layer.
Jasmin would never discourages feedback of any kind she wants this to be a fun open honest community were we share our experiences. On the research side for advanced users she would like for members to test and report on the single molecules and test mixes on there own before layering anything. Its that simple.
I am reminding members that unless your asked not to post something in the forum by the moderator (Tisha) or one of the Administrators (Steve Jasmin Michael) feel free to share and post whatever you want. Excluding racist or insulting hurtful messages. This is a uncensored forum and Jasmin encourages the freedom of sharing ideals and experiences.
Well, I can’t answer this for you, Tisha. To go through your post and correct it everywhere you are redefining me as something I’m not is too exhausting.
You discourage my feedback more often than you encourage it. That tells me that you don’t feel my contributions are valuable, though I expect you will say otherwise.
I try to clarify and show why I have the opinions I do, based on what I perceive Androtics’ mission and philosophy is (and that is based on Jasmin’s posting and PMS’s mostly) and you accuse me of misrepresenting Jasmin.
I don’t know what the problem is. I just know I’d really like to see this forum be more friendly and supportive of testers, as well as potential customers. And I’d really like to be able to post my opinions and feedback on here without having to worry about whether or not I’m going to be back handed if I do. It puts me in a dilemna. I want to continue to test and report my results. But I’m tired of getting slapped down when my results don’t match yours. I want to continue to contribute to the forum members. But I’m really, really tired of your angry responses to my posts.
Neither did I tell anyone not to layer or post about them. This was my understanding based on this:
…that what was suggested was starting a different section centered on recipes and mixes, not a thread about layering.
Again, this post is about a section, not a thread. Read on and I’ll explain, or at least try to again.
I don’t know how to answer this, Tisha. To have you ask it makes me believe you don’t understand what social placebo effect is. No one sets out to skew data. No one accused sillykitty of wanting to give false data. The social placebo effect just happens. It is a real phenomena that has to be taken into account.
Please stop trying to redefine me, Tisha. I was in no way misrepresenting Jasmine. Placebo effect is very real. It can’t be taken out of the equation, only understood and taken into account. Jasmine understands this very well. And this is my sole concern around the idea of setting up a complete separate section on mixes and recipes. Please read on and hopefully you will see better where I’m coming from.
I love people, too, Tisha. I spent 15 years as a body-centered therapist working with some of the most dysfunctional people you’d ever have the pleasure of meeting and I found it very rewarding to watch them grow and find themselves, find their centers, and find their power. I spent three years volunteering as suicide prevention counselor. I spent two years as a volunteer in a neonatal intensive care unit, cradling crack babies who couldn’t be consoled, who gasped for every breath because they were born too soon and had damaged lungs. I spent 1 1/2 years volunteering taking patients to and from chemotherapy and radiation treatment and holding their heads while they puked and cried from the pain. I’ve always cared enough to do what was right, no matter how uncomfortable it was to me personally, and I’ve always done what I felt was necessary to give back a little of what I’ve been so generously blessed with to those less fortunate. But I am also a trained scientist. And I know Androtics wants us to test and report on our results to the best of our ability.
Yes we are also a support and social forum. And that is great. But I still think it is in everyone’s best interest to not mix putative and test mixes with consumer products and put them in a recipe book section as though they were the end of the line. There is too much that is still unknown about the putatives. And the test mixes have putatives in them.
And having gone through about 3/4 of the putatives Androtics offers, and having seen the variance of effect of some of them on different users, and having experienced some of them (thankfully rarely) having pretty severe and awful effects, and seeing how widely the effects can vary from good to bad when mixing two or more different putatives, or with mixing putatives with consumer products, I don’t think it is a good idea to make some kind of easily referenced recipe cookbook section with them.
And that is above and beyond the placebo effect. But it can still skew the data.
Take for example Meo-Est. That is a molecule that hasn’t been studied much. You’ve had a pretty awful experience with it with a really bad nightmare. I’ve had really good responses with it. Diamond wore it and couldn’t sleep. What if someone came along and cut and pasted all my test mixes in the recipe section and a new person came along and saw it and had your reaction or worse?
And how about your Vavoom mix? You had great results with it. Some other people tried it and love it. I tried it and had an awful time with it.
That is why anytime someone asks me about Meo-Est, or TAF, or any of the other molecules I’m experienced with, I always also include in my response the potential negative reactions, citing the person that had them, if I can remember, and a caution that not everyone reacts the same, and to test slow.
But if a new person comes along and finds this section of recipes, and is looking for something specific (as most of us were) and grabs one of my mixes or one of your mixes, because it has been cut and pasted there, and they put on a ton of TAF, because I wear a ton of TAF, or put on a ton of P80, because I wear a ton of P80, or put on a ton of Androstenone, or some other putative or molecule, and they get a total fight-or-flight response to it, and are stressed to the max, or their mouth overloads their britches and they get into trouble, or have some other negative reaction…
What if that person decides we are selling snake oil and just leaves the forum without posting? There is valuable data lost, and no one is the wiser. And so all is light and sunshine, but not accurate, because the negative has flown and not been reported. And that is also skewed data. And what is left is reporting of only those that have exactly the same reactions or similar effects and the data is inaccurate. And it is the new forum member that are vulnerable, because the rest of us had to search the forum and on the way we learned a few things, like: not everyone responds the same to pheromones; you have to find your sweet spot; and so on.
There are some breaks build in, like the differential pricing of the test mixes and putatives. But, not everyone will be encouraged to test and report based on that. Some will just pay the higher price and spray and mix away.
I believe I have posted on every molecule I’ve used as individual molecules. I didn’t do formal reports on the forum on each one before I started reporting on my mixes. But I believe I have reported on each one from my home journal after the fact.
I believe I’ve even characterized each one based on my own self effects: P74, P87, P100, P107, and TAA I classified as cerebral, stimulatory. P79, P80, P83, P86, P91, P93, P96, p102, p103, and TAC as physical because of sedation, and mostly physical response. Meo-Est, TAF, Beta Androstenol, Androstenone… I’ve reported on all of these also.
Those are all the putatives I have used in mixes, and I’ve reported on them all individually. I haven’t devoted a full thread to all of them, but I have posted my results.
I also have Androsterone, P84, P104, Alpha Androstenol, which I haven’t tested or have only tested once, and haven’t reported on yet. None of these are in my mixes.
I’ve also reported on TUTH, Instant Honesty, Instant Openness, and Instant Shine; and Edge Gel, W-9, and EOW.
I don’t know where you get that I am saying or implying that Jasmin discourages feedback. I don’t believe that and I’d never say it. Jasmin has always welcomed all data, and has always encouraged both positive and negative feedback as long as it is as accurate as we can make it.
All I can say to the above is thank you for thinking I am so powerful that my expressed concerns, opinions, and feedback need to be warned about as not being from the administration. I can assure you I don’t feel this way. But thank you anyway.
I just want to stress one more time… a thread about layering is totally different from a section devoted to cutting and pasting recipes.
Thank you for clarifying that. One little word can make a world of difference. Since sillykitty is new I felt she meant thread by the word section not a whole new forum section and I didn’t realize you were referring to that because you didn’t mention it in your post.
Yes I do know what social placebo is and we do take it into account without censoring the members.
I have never tried to redefine you Diane but your quotes from Jasmin didn’t clearly represent her meaning in response to this threads subject. It was a totally different subject from posting recipes. Placing the quotes there makes it seem as though this is what Jasmin was saying even though its about another topic. I am also well aware that Jasmin is aware of the placebo and the design of the forum, We do communicate about the forum, members, pheromones and the mission of Androtics. I am her moderator.
I didn’t say you didn’t love people, I was conveying my feelings. While this is a research forum its been drilled into me by Jasmin and Steve to make it a community. A family and sometimes its hard to find that balance but I do it well and this is part of why I am here. I can strike and maintain that balance. If the forum becomes to science minded we lose members. If there is not enough science minded information we loss members.
Each molecule should be reported on separately in its own little page or in your forum journal. This is what is also very beneficial to the research This is besides the point though. I enjoy your reporting.
We have ways of taking care of that just by explaining in the thread about the molecules without censoring. I know she said section but I believe and assumed you picked up on her ideal as a thread not just a section, possibly a sticky. Others responsed in kind as well. You didn’t indicate “section” in your response though.
I to have tested every putative they have just about and some you don’t see and I agree there are some unpleasant reactions to a few of them. However to discourage others from there own experimentation, discovery and participation would not benefit them. Being open honest and posting about those experiences in a recipe thread would benefit them far more. Its what we are about.
To discourage the feedback which you did in response to SK Post # 9 then sight Jasmins posts on another subject is to imply. Now if she were posting on that subject and you quoted it would be different.
Your quite Welcome. I do consider you a positive influence on this forum. I don’t feel anyone thinks your part of the administration though and that’s really not a issue I am concerned with. My statement was the standard reply to members dictating to other members whats allowed or wanted by the administration and in reference to more then just your post. Perhaps I should posted a separate thread on that but since we were skimming along this subject line I added it there. That’s my bad. Its my job to make these situations clear and I am sorry if you do not like that but I look out for all the members of this forum. I have come to your defense a time or two as well.
I believe it was you who said to me “There is no need for you to feel bad about fulfilling your responsibilities. I totally understand.” when we touched on another issue involving forum “rules” . I hope you still understand that you are a valued member here but there are instances when we will not agree. When those instances occur, I fulfill my responsibilities.
OH with all this other whoo haa I forgot to tell sillykitty
We have been working on some new forum sections for the last year they are just not completed yet. Yes there is a section for recipes
Dont know when it will be done, Its kinda hard for Steve and Jasmin to find the time to finish it but when it is done it will be great . I have been helping out with it and it has been posted about in the lounge when woofie stumbled onto it
Oh, I like this idea…a separate section! That’s really good, keeps everyone happy. Those who wants combo’s and info on moleules can read up on it there, and those who want to do more “scientific” testing can avoid looking in the section
Wow, what fascinating response and conversation has arisen!! I love a lively discussion, especially between intelligent women
I did mean “thread” (or threads) as opposed to an entire section. Though, if there was a ton of recipes that would be better shown in sub-categories, perhaps a “section” would be more appropriate.
Diane, I totally understand and agree with the need for accurate unbiased reporting and the validity of data, and can definitely relate to your concern about new members taking such recipes at face value but then possibly having bad reactions.
My thoughts on that are that the recipes could also state possible negative effects. This is also why I suggested (or I think I did, if not I’m suggesting it now) that the posters of the recipes also share any unique factors about their personal situation/physiology that may have affected their outcome or results (ie, ADD, birth control, age, sex, etc).
There could also be a thread/section (okay lets just call it a “place”, Tisha you’re right on the spot, my forum terminology vocabulary is sorely lacking) that has bad recipes, or recipes that should be avoided, again with the poster’s unique circumstances that may have caused them or those around them to react the way they did.
The placebo effect is another very real thing to consider, but you are going to find that even with the regular products (IE, the Instant series), there may be some of that.
As a new member, I already know, for example, that IS/A is supposed to be like Angelina Jolie, and I did wonder whether I was feeling Angelina Jolie-ish because I’m supposedto feel that way, or because the pheromone is really working.
Yes, there is a part of me that almost wishes that I didn’t know what the effects are “supposed to be”, which is one reason I would really like to participate in blind testing.
But, whether or not the effects of those products/mixes that we already know the effects of (and like) are real or in our minds, we do experience them, and they do benefit us, so what does it matter as long as its beneficial?
Also, I was not, as Tisha pointed out, talking about Putatives in particular, I was talking about mixes in general, that could or could not contain Putatives.
I have been PM-ing with KatieA, and she and I would love to get such a project going, if it is agreeable with others, and of course with any and all ideas and thoughts anyone may have on it.
Of course, this would be primarily for the women’s section (maybe we could do the men’s too, but that would be later)
The only thing I want to address here is the word dictate. I have a real problem with trying to voice my concerns and having them misconstrued and labeled in this manner.
Everything else I’ve included in my PM to you, Tisha.
I can assure you I don’t feel this way. But thank you anyway.