'Pheromones for pickup' strategies

[Socrates]

SOE…They just love it
TBiRD (May 13, 2003):
“ Re: Observations and Theories of an Scent of Eros user . . . .
nice post swinger

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

good minimalist approach !

However , The Edge , dabbed , gets u much faster 2 the the point u want 2 get to

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Why not try it this way : First use your Scent of Eros to chat girls up , ease 'em up , get them to open to u …then on the second or third date - leave the Scent of Eros completely out and hit em with the almighty sexual The Edge vibe. = First thing they know about u is : U are friendly , someone they feel comfortable around , this builds trust ! Next step : Kabooom they get hit by The Edge and become fully aware that u are also sexually VERY attractive and since they already trust u - it would be OK/good to get it on with u …

Agreed ?”

SwingerMD (May 13, 2003):
“TBiRD,

Agreed.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The use - nol first then -none later strategy has been around for quite a while on this forum. It is very logical.

I tend to usually use this strategy though: When I'm out and about hunting/wandering around I've found it is the best to use a heavy -none product. The -none product seems to get the attention focused on you (especially with complete strangers) rather than using a - nol product like Scent of Eros which seems to encourage other people around you to "hook-up".

After getting her interest, phone number, and a date you use the Scent of Eros during the first few dates to make her relax, feel comfortable, and to gather enough info to see if this is someone that you can carry this to the next level.

When you're ready for that next level, you then hit them with that -none product.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

”

TBiRD (May 13, 2003):
“good post(s)…approaches like that belong into the "sticky posts" areas , 2 give people ideas on how to use pheros with a gameplan ..not just splash the stuff on and 2 days later cry on the forum : It didn't work lol”

SwingerMD (May 13, 2003):
“Oh and one more thing to add: Be sure to have Androstadienone or WAGG on hand when you do decide to use that -none product just in case the -none makes her go balistic (i.e. possibly that time of the month).”

[Socrates]

Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?

Maybe 3 sprays IO to 1 TUTH. Use an additional spray of TUTH on each subsequent date, and keep the IO the same. That’s what TUTH is for… turning up the heat, slowly and gradually. Gradually bringing sexual tension to a boil. It’s no secret… it’s name exactly after how you use it. Now, here’s some advice for where you start: If your first date is with someone completely new, I wouldn’t necessarily use it there, because you don’t have enough comfort and attraction yet. If you’ve already bu…

MHarris (February 15, 2006):
“Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9
What ratio of Turn Up The Heat to Instant Openess would you recommend for 2nd, 3rd+ dates. I figured general use would be 1 spray Turn Up The Heat to 1 spray Instant Openness.

Maybe 3 sprays Instant Openness to 1 Turn Up The Heat.

Use an additional spray of Turn Up The Heat on each subsequent date, and keep the Instant Openness the same.

That’s what Turn Up The Heat is for… turning up the heat, slowly and gradually. Gradually bringing sexual tension to a boil.

It’s no secret… it’s name exactly after how you use it.

Now, here’s some advice for where you start:

If your first date is with someone completely new, I wouldn’t necessarily use it there, because you don’t have enough comfort and attraction yet.

If you’ve already built some comfort with the girl (and hopefully have some attraction going on), then go ahead and start turning up the heat from the very date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9
I know Mharris talks a lot about 1:1 ratios of Androstenol to Androstenone.

A minimum of that makes androstenone it more comfortable, but you can far exceed this, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9
I know I’m young fixing to be 23, but I always wear A314 in my mixes, which should help with Androstenone. I’m just having a hard time figure out what ratios of Turn Up The Heat to use with Instant Openness orAlpha Androstenol. I want to keep sexual tones a little more of a priority, but I know on first dates or even 2nd this is void.

Should i do 2 sprays Turn Up The Heat to 1 spray Instant Openness, 3 sprays Turn Up The Heat to 1 Instant Openness?

Again, try using Turn Up the Heat to turn up the heat.

That’s a reliable, no BS way to use androstenone.

I wouldn’t worry about your ratio to Instant Openness as much, unless you have social experiences telling you to be concerned. Instant Openness, for most people, won’t knock much heat out of Turn Up The Heat.

Remember, it’s not just alpha androstenol in there - there’s a few tweaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9
Current 1st date mix= 2 drops A314, 1 spray Turn Up The Heat, 1 spray Instant Openness, 2 sprays IS, 2 sprays Instant Female Magic

Where should I go from here?

If it’s a first blind date or with someone you barely know, drop the Turn Up The Heat. You already have the Shine in there to give a nice sexual presence without overdoing it.

If it’s a date with someone you know and have some attraction with, you can start with 1 spray of Turn Up The Heat if you have.

I’d say you can use up to 3 or 4 sprays of Instant Openness starting on the first date.

Subsequent dates, add a spray of Turn Up The Heat, and perhaps remove a spray of Instant Openness. This will ramp up the “ants in the pants” effect.

“Gotta… take… these… damn… pants… off!”

Remember to make touching a regular part of your date from the getgo, so when you go in for a kiss or more, it’s not awkward.

Start with little touches (on the arm, hand, shoulder, etc), and work your way up in duration and intensity.

In fact, start touching before you go out on a date. Before you get her number.”

I need guidence

Shy, young men love the Instant Openness to Instant Shine combo. Don’t use Turn Up The Heat daily. In fact, don’t use it when meeting new people at all, unless you’re meeting them in a sexual context (like a club or bar, where women go out on the prowl). It’s meant to Turn UP the heat, on SUBSEQUENT meetings with a women… second or third date, that kind of thing. What you want to build with new women is attraction, comfort, and trust. Using androstenone is aggressively sexual, akin to walking …

MHarris (March 19, 2006):
“Shy, young men love the Instant Openness to Instant Shine combo.

Don’t use Turn Up The Heat daily. In fact, don’t use it when meeting new people at all, unless you’re meeting them in a sexual context (like a club or bar, where women go out on the prowl). It’s meant to Turn UP the heat, on SUBSEQUENT meetings with a women… second or third date, that kind of thing.

What you want to build with new women is attraction, comfort, and trust. Using androstenone is aggressively sexual, akin to walking around with your fly open and your penis out… too aggressive.

Shine is great at introducing a physically attractive element that’s comfortable and fun.

If you don’t mind how it affects you, Instant Female Magic can really help women drop their guard, too.

Much to my surprise, I’ve had women vigorously initiate conversations with me using Instant Openness, Shine and Instant Female Magic. Sometimes one after the other. (with the first one, you get a social proof element that encourages other women to vie for your attention)

Now this is important: Even though women will sometimes initiate with you, push that out of your head. Don’t aim for that – that’s a weak position to come from. Men play the biological role of initiators, and if you’re not doing that, you’re going to be working against what you’re building with pheromones.

Bottom line: You need to get some game. If you don’t know where to start, start with The Mystery Method book or DVDs. (they have forums, too, but they tend to have the same basic questions asked over and over again – not nearly as good as the book)

The Mystery Method is what Neil Strauss’ book and upcoming movie “The Game” is based on. It’s light years beyond most of the dating or “pick up” material out there, and will move you light years beyond where you are now.

When you have some game, when you become a decent initiator (go on the “newbie mission”), A314 would also prove to be an invaluable tool in your arsenal. In terms of the Mystery Method, A314 helps you to display higher value. I wouldn’t recommend for you as you are now, though – shy people and A314 don’t mix, unless you want your space.

Right now, you want women to invade your space more than ever. That’s where Shine really shines.”

[Socrates]

Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction

Which pheromones do you guys use for each phase of seduction, in terms of something like the Mystery Method or Neil Strauss’ Game? We were thinking something like this: Attraction: IO or Liquid Sunshine + Instant Shine + small amount of TUTH The IO or one of the Liquid Sunshine mixes would make people chatty, make 'em feel good The Shine will make them feel even better. Increase the energy, and make you seem like one of those people everyone likes to be around. An optimistic, bright breath o…

Jasmin (November 3, 2006):
“ Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction
Which pheromones do you guys use for each phase of seduction, in terms of something like the Mystery Method or Neil Strauss’ Game?

We were thinking something like this:

Attraction: Instant Openness or Liquid Sunshine + Instant Shine + small amount of Turn Up The Heat
The Instant Openness or one of the Liquid Sunshine mixes would make people chatty, make 'em feel good

The Shine will make them feel even better. Increase the energy, and make you seem like one of those people everyone likes to be around. An optimistic, bright breath of fresh air.
The small amount of Turn Up The Heat will let 'em know you’re not just a friend.

Comfort: Instant Openness + a small amount of Instant Shine, an even tinier amount of Turn Up The Heat, maybe a little A314 or something based on MX102 through MX105. Optional Instant Honesty

The Shine would keep it buzzy, non-boring.

The small amount of Turn Up The Heat would help prevent friendism

A314 would add comfort, and position you as a classical man ( DHV ). I think the key would be using not too much. Maybe even less than 1 drop or 1 spray of MX102 is ideal. Our own Thomas Lavoie does something like this.

Instant Honesty would make her feel like she’s known you forever. A true comfort accelerator (but maybe too comfortable in high amounts?). (I’ve gotten a lot of feedback saying that A314 and Honesty are actually killer for mystery’s C3)

Seduction:Turn Up The Heat + TAL + P79. Optional: A little Shine and/or Instant Openness

The Turn Up The Heat would add the sexual spark

The P79 would make 'em wanna do something about it, and reduce LMR

The TAL would make women aggressive and direct (chime in here, Taoist Biker and others!) and also reduce LMR.

What do you guys think?”

[Socrates]

Tacitus’ massage strategy for pick up/sodomy is below. Note again the delayed use of Androstenone . It seems to be a common strategy among all the ‘experts’ to not use Androstenone first, or at least to use minimal Androstenone at some stages in the pickup process around the target…

Replacement for NPA?

tacitus (August 4, 2006):
" You’re not intrigued by my sodomy combo ? For shame, grashopper!
anyway… it goes like this… you need an orange light bulb…

so on the pheromone front I discover the two phase technique, this one works like a charm…

first, mix up you massage oil, silicone oil is preferred, with a large dose of androstenone… like 5 milligrams in a four ounce bottle… you’ll use at least 1/4 of the bottle at one time, so we’re looking at 1.2 milligrams being moderately released from the silicone as you massage it into the naked, glistening skin… YUM!!!

second, you make a small quantity of quick release, combined with a great fragrance, mostly alcohol based… TAA, TAH (a superior twosome), Alpha Androstenol , a little A-1, and some alpha-Androsterone … so right before you get down you pre-blast with the quick release mix, this causes wonderful feelings of connection, appreciation, emotional sensuality, very healing energy…

THEN… once the mood is established… start to shlother on the powerfully sexual -none scented oil… the mood will begin to shift, in a dramatic fashion if you are attuned to these things, to really dirtyfilthy sex inspirations…

now you will need the light from your orange bulb to see what you are doing, or contemplate doing…

Why does this one-two punch work so well ? So much better than loading it all in a single application ? I think because of the two edged quality that -none has… until she is in the right frame of mind, theASDs are always hovering around… but once the mind is deeply relaxed and receptive, the -none triggers powerful instinctual passions that are CONGRUENT with the existing mindset… they seem like the natural progression from sensuality to sexuality to lying there like a sweaty exhausted ball drained heap. IMO… many pheromone sex strategies mess up by short circuiting this process by throwing out way too much -none energy too soon without letting things develop in the right sequence… as exactly noted by the Mystery Method guys… this is essentially the same sequencing, done more with exocrine signaling and less with booze… IMO also Mystery Method can be a ticket to a whole bunch of heavy body load drinking and staying up past your bedtime… Tacitus Rule #1 : sleep is the new sex
Tacitus Rule #2 : high quality sleep is the first consequence of high quality sex… both are restorative Tacitus Rule #3 bad sex results in bad sleep results in bad sex results in bad performance in other areas of your life… sleep deeply, fuck hard, and perform impressively… everything is connected… Tacitus Rule #4 Hard partying will accelerate the ageing process, so take it easy, because by the time it shows up on your face you’ve done some interanal damage as well, hard damage to reverse, BTW Tacitus Rule #5 pheromones can help reach your optimal pleasure states in a healthy efficient way… so why abuse booze and dope if you don’t have to ?"

[Socrates]

An interesting exchange between NBully and Lor from just over a year ago is pasted in below. Here we have one woman’s perspective of when is and when is not the right time to use Androstenone in pickup situations and how much of it is needed…

for the ladies...

Hi, A question for the ladies. I have been experimenting with turn up the heat (small doses) and have found it to be an excellent attractant. I was curious as to what mens Androtics products the women find most attractive? I have read a lot about Ammunition, etc.

Lor (January 26, 2007):
“huge fan of Ammo.
instant shine is another. the guys i know that are either around it or wearing just come off as happy…going on..carefree which is VERY sexxay!
i happen to have a dose of Turn Up The Heat that is a little much for me,but when properly diluted,its hot.
my only problem with it is that it works on me with people i know, not with people im not close to .”

Lor (January 27, 2007):
“…happy to explain, i feel strongly i know the reason people fail with TUTH ]…
people go for the androstenone heavy mixes because they are going for a sexual mix.
the problem with androstenone to me is that its a very caveman/instant jerk feel to it. i get the feeling of cockiness, arrogance,i want you for 10 minutes and then go away.
when you use pheromixes like instant shine , Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, CTTM, sunshine… these are the social “im fun your fun lets be fun together” mixes.
i want to chat you up this way.
im feelin ya,converation is happenin’, maybe we could hang in a more private place…this is when i would spring the Turn Up The Heat!
at this point Turn Up The Heat is interpreted as sexual tension, because it wasnt there before i met you. theres no “i was going to have sex with or without you”…
i hope i am comming across, i have trouble expressing my ideas when im excited on a topic! ”

Lor (January 28, 2007):
“Quote:
So, what I understood from your post is that with people you know a heavy -none product translates to sexual tension as the comfort has already been established, but with new people it comes across as cockiness and arrogance! Did, I understand correctly?

yes. when there is tention before i ever arrived and i think “well you were going to score with anyone and i got here first”
i dont mean that anyone with a heavy 'none signiture is comming across this way, but honestly i dont think anyone applying more 'none is applying in a natural amount,ever. thats just my experience.

Quote:
Can the comfort be lost on sudden introduction of Turn Up The Heat even though it went smoothly during conversation and now you are at a private place where both agreed to be? Maybe the girl wanted to have sex with the guy with Instant Shine signature and now that you are a guy with -none signature she doesn’t want to??

im not convinced it works like that.
i think the girl (we think different) that grooved on the shine-guy is now in a mentally different place,where things are acceptable to a certain degree. once things move to another level,you made it. theres the possibility. thats NOT the i want shine girl,lol,atleast if shes wanting to go somewhere more private.
Quote:
So, my question is can you ever be sure that introducing -none is definitely a good idea (let’s not get into ovulation, we are talking about new people here)?

no. you can never be sure. feeling out the situation is always necessary,but atleast here you know not to be heavy with it in the first few minutes
Quote:
What if Ammunition was used instead of Turn Up The Heat in the private scenario, will that be perceived as lower and not enough sexual tension?

this is different to me.
Ammo for all i know may have more 'none in it than Turn Up The Heat. i dont know what it has, all i know is that i have the “shiny” version of it, and i think “player…hottie…fun…NOT just a friend…”
i still think Ammo has plenty if not ALOT of sexual tension,but it doesnt feel to me to be something only used for special situations.

remember too that these are just my experiences so i know other people dont have the same theories.
alot of this to me is timing, like you have dinner then dessert, instead of “lets have dessert and hopefully you’ll know i meant to offer dinner but i didnt think about it. hey,look! whipped cream!” ”

Lor (January 28, 2007):
“Quote:
Are they thinking this is a guy which can satisfy me sexually, or are they just feeling hot and I am the one nearest to them, or something else?

i dont think (please correct me if im wrong) that most women in general are just hoping to sniff out a man that can satisfy them sexually. women by nature are looking for men that have the right qualities first,even though i dont think its a conscious choice.sex wouldnt be the first deciding factor as it would be for a man.
Quote:
The strange thing was sometimes the -none hits are indistinguishable from Shine hits or - Androstenol hits. Women just feel comfortable to be around you. What is happening there? So, -none alone (like Primal Instinct,Turn Up The Heat) seems to be enough to generate good feelings in them! Are they thinking sex, or are they thinking this is a fun guy to be around?

i would not attribute good feelings in women you just met to 'none.
nothing about 'none makes it comfortable to be around you.
maybe you are a strong 'Androsterone maker?
i dont think people wear primal/ Turn Up The Heat to comfort women, and i dont think i have ever mistook a shine feeling for a Turn Up The Heat feeling.
i think more credit should be placed on you as an individual,as a personality, and the pheromones just steered the direction somewhat.
men think women think like they do (which is natural as we do it too) so i would be thinking ,if i were a man, that i need to stop thinking she is thinking sex,especially if we just met, and think she is not in the same mental space. getting along with you on all other topics doesnt mean great she must want to have sex
had to say that, i know you dont think that! …”

[Socrates]

Just to keep hammering the point, here is more on when is and isn’t the right time to wear AndrostEnone . In honor of our PheroQueen Jasmin’s recent birthday I have included some of the wonderful advice she has given out. Also we have two stalwarts of the forum, the two Ts: Tater and Tisha, agreeing that heavy AndrostEnone too early in an encounter with someone is not sexual (well there might be an exception here and there of course Gegogi )!

Turn up the heat worn to work

faints Turn Up The Heat + Ammo. gets up and faints again Justy, congrats on your first day! Let’s get you steered in the right direction. Your lovergirl might have already felt strange that day, and the overpowering phero signature totally couldn’t have helped at all - it might have really driven in some discomfort. Little did you know, that your phero signature hopped up on a soapbox, grabbed a loudspeaker, pointed at lovergirl’s face, shouted very loud and clear, “ME WANT SEX NOW.” That i…

Jasmin (March 27, 2007):
“faints

Turn Up The Heat + Ammo. gets up and faints again

Justy, congrats on your first day! Let’s get you steered in the right direction.

Your lovergirl might have already felt strange that day, and the overpowering phero signature totally couldn’t have helped at all - it might have really driven in some discomfort.

Little did you know, that your phero signature hopped up on a soapbox, grabbed a loudspeaker, pointed at lovergirl’s face, shouted very loud and clear, “ME WANT SEX NOW.”

That is what a -none OD communicates.

Moderate doses of Turn Up The Heat/'none communicate something like… leaving your pants unzipped and showing part of your penis. Some women, especially ovulating ones, ones on the prowl, 30+ single ladies, and the testosterone pumped horndog girls (there are some girls like that out there!), will be super aroused, giggly, and way into that.

On the flipside, wear that same dose around a mommy, an married woman, someone who has very very strong/repressed social filters, and anyone who is in the middle of the wrong context (like at work or church) might hit you with their purse and call you a cad!”

hey folks

Hey there boom! Glad to hear about your newfound interest in modifying social situations. For any first time TUTH users, I totally recommend tempering it with Shine (or other feel good phero blends). You’ll get a good feel of the energy and heat of TUTH, and you’ll soon learn that it’s possible to wear it in an assortment of situations. Spend a week or two with is and see how it jibes with your body chemistry, and then you’ll have a really good idea of how it will work out and about. Y…

Jasmin (June 13, 2007):
“Hey there boom!

Glad to hear about your newfound interest in modifying social situations.

For any first time Turn Up The Heat users, I totally recommend tempering it with Shine (or other feel good phero blends). You’ll get a good feel of the energy and heat of Turn Up The Heat, and you’ll soon learn that it’s possible to wear it in an assortment of situations. Spend a week or two with is and see how it jibes with your body chemistry, and then you’ll have a really good idea of how it will work out and about.

You CAN use a smidge - and I’m talking smidge here - in casual situations.

Think of it this way. Turn Up The Heat says, “I’m going to have sex!”. You can wear too much and freak people out, OR you can wear a tiny dash, stir up some sexual mystique, and layer it with some feel good pheros so people associate feeling good and feeling aroused with you!

Sound good? Give me a call if you have Qs.

Your gift cert is turning up the heat in your inbox ”

EST puts my man in the mood for love

BTW, androstenone is also best kept light by men until the engagement is underway. Heavy androstenone early is not sexual. What is an androstenone OD for a guy who is just meeting a woman, is useful once activity has begun. Timing is important. Associations are important. Also, a woman wearing too much androstenone would cancel out the EST effect. Confusion takes a phero signature sideways.

MadisonTate (February 6, 2008):
“BTW, androstenone is also best kept light by men until the engagement is underway. Heavy androstenone early is not sexual. What is an androstenoneOD for a guy who is just meeting a woman, is useful once activity has begun.

Timing is important. Associations are important…”

EST puts my man in the mood for love

Ahhh Thats just my point. You cant OD on cops, you can however not use enough to evoke a response. While heavy Androstenone early is not sexual, heavy cops are. Tisha

tisha23 (February 6, 2008):
“Ahhh Thats just my point. You cant OD on cops, you can however not use enough to evoke a response. While heavy Androstenone early is not sexual, heavy cops are.

Tisha”

[Socrates]

Great old post from Gem on his own approach with regard to using pheromones for pickup:

Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction

I don’t know pheromones but I do know game - here is my input, take it or leave it. It is important to understand the differences within the different sections of the Mystery method model: Attraction is A 1 (the opener), A2 (female to male attraction), A3 (Male to female attraction) Comfort - Can all be lumped together but is essentially building deeper raport and connection. Seduction, is split into thre but only two are relevent - Getting her horny, and LMR (last minute resistance) A 1 - I…

Gem (December 19, 2006):
“I don’t know pheromones but I do know game - here is my input, take it or leave it.

It is important to understand the differences within the different sections of the Mystery method model:

Attraction is A 1 (the opener), A2 (female to male attraction), A3 (Male to female attraction)

Comfort - Can all be lumped together but is essentially building deeper raport and connection.

Seduction, is split into thre but only two are relevent - Getting her horny, and LMR (last minute resistance)

A 1 - Instant openess, instant female magic or instant shine - baiscally all you are trying to do at this point is get the girl(s) to speak to you you so anything that relaxes her, opens her up or makes her feel good near you will work

A2 - female to male attraction, I am not going to go into what builds attraction, but I will just say, you don’t want anything that makes her feel comfortable or connected to you (the secret is to make her feel you are better than her or unobtainable) so I suggest Turn Up The Heat or Instant jerk, or maybe even >A314 if congruent with your personality.

A3 - male to female attraction, at this point you want to show her she has won you over (not sexually) baisically this is where you first show attraction by complimenting her you want her to link compliments from you with feeling good so my pheromone of choice would be instant shine or female magic.

Comfort - deeper raport, deep conversations, connection, shared experiences - Instant openess, Instant shine, Instant honesty…

Seduction

S1 - getting her hot, time to Turn Up The Heat (again), instant jerk, (basically sex pheromones

S3 - LMR - This is when she wonders if she is doing the right thing (after all she only just met you) You DO NOT want to be winning her over by palying how horny she is feeling off against her will power (that is IMO immoral and inneffective) You want to reassure her - so once again you want some reassuring, feel good products (shine, Honesty, openess)

Now, that is a fantasy situation - in reality you cannot change and remove pheromones that quickly for example the whole attraction phase can be run within the space of 20 seconds (trust me i have done it) So I suggest you identify your own sticking points within that framework and select the right pheromones from there. For instance my sticking point is A3 - I have no problem opening, I can build attraction easily - too easily that leads to the problem that girls think I am being insincere or playing with them once i begin to take an interest in them - so I would stick to Shine or openess to assist me and not use any sexual pheromones.

Me personally - I will stay away from any sexual pheromones beyond our first meeting. It jsut seems a bit too much like pressuring someone into doing something they wouldn’t normally do becuase they get too horny and that doesn’t sit well with me. I like to guide all sexual encounters towards a meaningfull lasting relationship (open relationship), so I am prepared to wait and ensure she is 100% happy and has made the decision to escalate sexually with all the facts in place (including the fact that I am a PUA and will not commit to her). But that is just my personal Moral Stance so take it as you will. I would rather sleep well at night even if it means I don’t sleep with a different person each night. once i have already slept with a girl I will certainly use sexual pheromones to spice up the sex.

The above recommendation is for MM style game (indirect),

If your style is direct I would recommend just Turn Up The Heat or Instant Jerk if you can handle it…”

[tdaos]

fantastic recomendations…thank u

well,betaandrostenol,alpha androstenol,androstadienone,and estr in the first date…

add A314 for the female to male atraction…
What about adding 1 or 2 sprays of Ammo at the first date???

well,perhaps none could be so much strong for a first date,but with all the others pheros buffering,the none could be positive too…

what about you?(talking about first dates,of course)

pd:well,my english is not very good,so perhaps i havent understood you correctly.Sorry if this happened

[Socrates]

The problem us guys have all grappled with, particularly given that many of the mones result in inviting smiles, is coming on too strong from these hits or signs of interest. ‘Active disenterest’ and a ‘level head’ sounds like the perfect remedy for this. Don’t turn into some ‘puppy dog’ when a desirable woman flashes her whites at you - easier said than done I guess…

MX101: any idea if it works?

ps. another thing i noticed. lets say you do get a hit, and you start being a little forward. sometimes coming on.. shys them away. one girl was giggling like mad and had a hard time giving me eye contact (which was very annoying) and another girl looked at me like I dropped my pants in front of her. mind you she smiled at me first. then my friend Nat said some girl thought i was hot, so I go over to her, and she’s blushing. so I ask her to dance, and she said no because she was nervous. I got …

examine (June 18, 2006):
“ps. another thing i noticed. lets say you do get a hit, and you start being a little forward. sometimes coming on.. shys them away. one girl was giggling like mad and had a hard time giving me eye contact (which was very annoying) and another girl looked at me like I dropped my pants in front of her. mind you she smiled at me first.

then my friend Nat said some girl thought i was hot, so I go over to her, and she’s blushing. so I ask her to dance, and she said no because she was nervous. I got her on the floor, but she wouldnt stop smiling, her feet were glued to the ground as she attempted to dance, and she was extremely shy, she told me i was hot, then giggled (as if i was whispering in her ear) and said she felt dumb. so i let her scurry off back to her friends.

but then 30 min later i see her dancing with some clown. alrighty!

i still dont know what happened there.

Instant Shine being Brad Pitt

I say MX 101 is a WWE superstar.

Yea, guys enying, and ladies seek out your alph, but once you approach her, and she has all 6’6 270lbs 3 % body fat in her front of her, it may intimidate. now some girls have confidence and will try to subdue/seduct the beast. other girls may run. even tho later that night shes thinking about the pure power of biceps.

im going to try this mix with 3 sprays of TAH/ TAL / TAA

it outta calm the shyness effect down a little.”

TAF = Fearless

I havent noticed the visually sharp detailed effect, but I notice I’m a lot less shy. Usually during conversations, I only keep eye contact for seconds at a time. with this, I dont turn away, I look straight into peoples eyes with my shoulders back. very confident component. it also raises the cofidence of all my mixes. I literally kamakazi into groups of people, sometimes, groups i dont even know. of course i get the last minute “should i?” but with TAF, while my mind is asking the question, e…

MHarris (June 30, 2006):
“That’s right. Good advice.

The PUAs call this “The 3 second rule”. You approach within 3 seconds (or the bare minimum to get over there), because then you don’t have the time required to feel approach anxiety.

Internal feelings are slower than that. They’re the slowest part of our internal experience (which is one reason why people get “stuck” in emotional states, despite their conscious wishes to feel something else).

Also, this impresses the heck out of a women, both consciously and unconsciously. Men, in nature, are supposed to be doing the approaching.

A man who approaches almost immediately is the most alpha. Women get a real tingle or other internal response out of this.

You’re fulfilling both your and her biological destiny by approaching right away. Makes you both feel really good. You both get immediate psychological & physical rewards from it. Sort of like a pre-relationship orgasm (which is another physical reward for a job well done in the mating game)”

Rob (June 30, 2006):
“…Lol.. just on the side.. make sure this immediate psychological and physical reward does not over whelm you. Its funny how women can easily manipulate men by making them light up with just a smile. Its like they turn men into puppy dogs or something.

If you want to maintain Alpha, then you must maintain a level head in all situations and DO NOT go total EMO HARD CORE over any girl. Besides, you would not want to be seen as a fruitcake (you being a guy).”

MHarris (June 30, 2006):
“…Yes, they shouldn’t feel as if they’ve won you over (i.e., if you instantly melt in response to their smile)

Otherwise, they get an internal feeling of completion, and a little voice in their heads that say “onto the next conquest”.

Something won too easily is not enjoyed. That’s why you utilize active disinterest.

Re: emo hard core fruitcake… hahaha… you have a way with words ”

[Socrates]

From LS:-
a.k.a. (February 20, 2005):
"Whatever. The point is to compare and contrast pheromone seduction with other approaches.

First of all, many times you don’t really have to “open” (especially in bars & clubs, where women tend to be a little bolder than everyday life). You just have to dive in when an opening is created for you.
Even when you do have to get the ball rolling, you don’t have to stress so much about “Do I flirt, or do I just act sociable.” Flirtatious comments will always be perceived in the best light and sociable introductions will always contain a subtle sexual undertone.

You don’t have to worry so much about where you stand on the social scale. You may look like a 5 but you draw as much attention as a 10. So the game is more about learning how to play off of the attention than figuring out how to appear special.

The article Mobley posted gave good advice about using social situations to boost your social status.
With pheromones you can pull tricks that are pretty unlikely without. Imagine how impressive it looks when a skinny little guy can get two big guys to move over for him. But we all know that this is no big deal if the little guy is wearing adrostenone.
Standard techniques (like starting conversations and cracking jokes) are much easier with pheromones. People tend to be more attentive (because you have a certain something that they can’t put their finger on) and more likely to laugh (because there’s a sort of tension in the air).

Then there’s the subliminal dimension. No need for NLP because women are already thinking about sex and are probably trying to figure out why they’re attracted to you. Your only challenge is to give them a plausible reason.
Even better, sometimes women will make up a plausible reason of their own, and you just have to play the role. If she thinks you’re funny, just keep cracking jokes (they don’t even have to be that funny). If she thinks you’re friendly and non-critical, you pat the asshole next to you on the back and take a good natured approach to his jealous outburst.

Pheromones also give you a big advantage in the leadership competition. (We all know how attractive that is.) Under normal situations, taking charge of a social situation can be quite challenging — even if you’re a big, strong, quick witted guy. With pheromones its almost like stepping on stage and reciting your lines.
If you smell like the leader, and you act like the leader, and guys step out of your way or laugh at your stupid jokes like your the leader… then, by god, you must BE the leader. Just play it for all it’s worth and there’s no telling how far it’ll take you.

PS. If my hit stories test the bounds of your world view, try this little “exercise”:

Step one: You know how little kids will grab another’s toy and say “Mine.”? Play this little head game until it becomes easy:
Imagine that this is YOUR life, YOUR world, YOUR time. If you walk into a bar, bookstore, or supermarket, it’s YOUR bar, bookstore, or supermarket. That’s YOUR bartender, YOUR clerk, YOUR cashier. YOUR crowd. See a spot that you like? That’s YOUR spot. Notice a lull in the conversation? That’s YOUR cue to get a conversation going. Notice a pretty girl across the way? That’s YOUR cue to smile.
Etc.

Step two: Wear whatever clothes you feel most at ease in. Apply whatever pheromone you have the most experience with.

Step three: Go to a bar or club where nobody knows you.

Step four: Apply the techniques discussed in my post (play the whole crowd, not just some particular woman): a) dive in whenever there’s an opening (don’t hold back), b) score as many social points as you can (don’t be shy, you’ll never have to face any of those people again), c) give women a plausible reason to desire you, play up to their expectations (don’t worry about “being yourself” or “being alpha”, just listen and take your cues), d) take charge (there has to be a leader, it might as well be you)

Step five: Come back and write your own hit story."

[Socrates]

And more from the wisdom of a.k.a. This guy has been using pheromones since at least 2001 by the way and has had some really impressive things to say…

From LS:-
a.k.a. (January 15, 2005):
“Love means different things to different people.
I think all pheromones go a long way towards imprinting you in a woman’s mind, and most make her feel sexy when you’re around. Some mixes evoke trust and can make women feel more secure around you (eg Alter Ego, Scent of Eros). A1 can smooth out interpersonal tensions and lift spirits. PF can evoke intimacy. And the right combo can make you quite addictive to most women.”

From LS:-
a.k.a. (January 30, 2005):
“She came on to you. You played it cool. She lost interest.

I know it’s tough being young and not wanting to scare off girls that you’re attracted to. But at some point you have to make that leap and hold her hand, touch her face, kiss her lips or otherwise show your attraction in some physical way.
It’s going to be awkward and you’re bound to get shot down a couple of times; but that’s the only way you’ll ever find sexual happiness (and get some sleep at night).”

From LS:-
a.k.a. (April 8, 2005):
“Quote:
Originally Posted by Gegogi
In short, pheromones won’t make you do anything you don’t want to do.

Technically, this is probably true. But, in practice, people have many desires and the question is which ones will they act on. Some desires are buried beneath the surface and the person has no intention of acting on it, but you can still tap into it by getting her in the right mood and approaching it from the right angle.

Nowadays it’s pretty risky for a woman to invite a man she just met into her home. Most women realize this, and tend to set rules about who gets in and who doesn’t. But if the desire is persistent enough and the trust is strong enough (both of which can be enhanced with pheromones) the rules will be broken.
Another great example is getting my girlfriend to “play hooky” with me. I know she’d rather spend the day in bed than deal with her coworkers, but she’s been raised with a work ethic that tells her she can’t act on these desires. And she doesn’t — unless I add a few pheromones to my argument. (And the funny thing is I don’t even have to be deceptive about. I can draw a cross of Scent of Eros on my chest, right in front of her eyes, and say something like “Doesn’t this smell nice? Do you really want to get into all those clothes? Put on all that makeup? Deal with all that traffic?..”)

Business applications offer an even more dramatic example. Because, in business, you’re supposed to apply cold calculation. You’re not supposed to be swayed by emotions.

A while back I was called to the CEO’s office to explain why I’d gone over budget two quarters in a row. I was wearing Chikara and acted cool and composed. He had a stack on itemized expenditures on his desk but he didn’t even bother to ask me about any of them. He seemed a bit like he’d forgotten what he was going to say and asked me how things were going. I took the opportunity to show how excited I was about the expansion that was taking place in my department ( a roundabout way of accounting for the expenditures without having to go into detail) and he fell right into the mood I was creating. By the time I left he had promised to take up a budget increase with the board!

At my previous job I once made a really bad mistake that could have gotten my firm into a serious law suit. Several board members had come down to the office to personally ream me out. I was wearing Scent of Eros and it was as if I instantly disarmed everybody by simply walking in the room. (These guys had never met me before, so I had the advantage of making the first impression.) I got a bit of a wrist slap, but nothing in writing. Most of the time was spent joking about boneheaded mistakes that people had made. Even though I apologized it was redundant because they were all sure I felt bad and would never do something so stupid again.
Later that day, my direct supervisor said my guardian angel must have been working overtime because they were dead set on firing me, even though he had begged them to give me another chance.

So I’d say, maybe pheromones won’t make you do something you don’t WANT to do, but they may make you do things you never INTENDED to do.”

From LS:-
a.k.a. (February 9, 2006):
“I’d say it’s mostly uncharted territory.
Over time, it’s hard to draw the line between changes that are based on pheromones and changes based on improved confidence. I leave that for scientists to figure out, and focus on the whole self-enhancement package.
From my experience, pheromones tend to make a strong impression and a lot of what happens the day after depends on how you took advantage of the increased attention while the pheromones were working their magic.
You probably won’t hear a lot of people say this, but I personally believe that they can become a crutch or an escape — if that’s how you use them.
I haven’t noticed any weird sexual vibe with my family, but there have been subtle relationship changes — all for the best.
I don’t know what they do to your own pheromone levels but they can affect your mood, energy and confidence. Not to mention some of them can make you very aroused. I’m a minimalist — I wear small amounts with the theory that it entices people to get closer to me — so I don’t notice any residual effect after two days of being without them. And the self-arousal seems to go away after about 8 hours.
I’ve never gone back to my “normal” self, but then again I started martial arts training right around the time I started using pheromones — hard to say which is the greatest confidence builder. But other people do tend to ignore me if I’ve gone two days without the stuff.

Hope some of this helps, and do check out JVK’s book.”

From LS:-
a.k.a. (March 26, 2006):
“If pheromones are working for you, you have every reason to be more confident. And you don’t have to play the fool to draw attention to yourself.
Beyond that, you should be conscious of how the mones shape your mood. If too much NPA makes you irritable… too much A1 makes you depressed… too much Androsterone makes you lethargic… your should cut back. How you feel is going to shape how you act, in subtle ways that are very difficult to control.

The core elements of your personality won’t change without major trauma or protracted effort. But you can always shape your persona (the image you present to the world) to fit the circumstances. If you maintain awareness of how pheromones create a particular “atmosphere” with people, you can learn how to adjust your persona to make the most of it.
For example: just about everybody notices chattiness and openness with Scent of Eros. If you can get women talking about things that make them happy, excited, aroused… you can shape their feelings about you. If you take advantage of their increased openness to get up close and personal, you can create warmth and stimulate arousal.”

From LS:-
a.k.a. (May 3, 2006):
“Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny

1. Isn’t the main effect really on the wearer rather than the target? I get much calmer, worriless, confident and is ‘focusing on the game’ when I wear PPA. Combined with decent looks and a friendly personality this seems to give MY brain the edge it needs for performing seduction. Afterall, as the wearer I’m exposed to a lot more of the none than my target. Being a skinny built vegetarian I assume I have naturally low testosterone levels.

The main effect is the chemistry generated between people.
I find that androstenone is some kind of stimulant. A small dosage tends to be a confidence booster for everybody involved. It makes me feel energetic and alert and it tends to make women feel sexy and desirable. This is good chemistry. So if I just play it natural, good things tend to happen. I tend to be more daring and upbeat, which makes women more flirtatious, which makes me more daring … which creates a sort of positive feedback loop.
A somewhat higher dosage tends to make me feel cocky and full of my self, while it tends to make women feel slightly tense yet strangely aroused (that dangerous man mystique). In some situations (usually when there’s alcohol involved) I can play it natural and good things happen. In other situations I have to play it cool — tone myself down — otherwise I’ll scare women away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
2) Won’t wearing synthetic pheromones lower your natural pheromone production? My very limited knowledge in physiology says the human body tends to down-regulate anything when exposed to unnatural amounts of it.

I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem to be significant. My girlfriend still enjoys my pit smell and nobody shuns me on days that I don’t wear pheromones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
3) I’ve been seducing one of my female friends, and everytime we sit around and talk she is very touchy, always finds a way to shift the topic to sex and looks into my eyes forever. Of course I encourage it as much as I can. However, when we talk on the phone she is completely different, irritable and sounds annoyed.
Is this a typical “withdrawal syndrome” from pheros ? I solve the problem by spending as little time as possible on the phone, but it would be interesting to know other peoples experiences and possible work-arounds.

I’ve experienced this many times. Hate to break it to you, but what it most likely means is that your friend isn’t interested in your personality or the things you have to say. She’s all about the (pheromone enhanced) moments of proximity and is probably irritated that you’re trying to get some kind of validation out of her when she just wants to sample the goods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
4) While pheros seem to be working great for me, I really don’t want to wear them all the time or all my life. I hear that if you change your “pheromone signature”, girlfriends tend to get upset and ditch you (and I might have experienced something like this). How can you counteract this? Perhaps I could gradually lower my none ‘dosage’ over the course of a year or something?

If a woman wants to ditch you when you’re not pheromone enhanced it’s a blessing in disguise. An even worse scenario is when she nags and gripes and gets into all kinds of moods trying to force some satisfaction out of a relationship that basically had nothing more than pheromones going for it.
The best way to counteract this is to go several days without pheromones before developing any strong attachments to her.
The important thing to note is that relationships built on pure instinct don’t really last — whether you use synthetic pheromones or not. If a long term relationships is your goal, your strategy should be to use pheromones as a means for finding a woman that shares your goals, values and priorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
5) I’m only wearing -none at the moment, and this has some negative impacts on my friendship with other males. Therefore I recently aquired some unscented Scent of Eros. Again, there’s the “signature change” problem. How do you guys do when you’re experimenting with different mixes?

Signature changes don’t seem to create any problems for me. Sometimes I get a comment like, “You seem different today.” But nobody shuns me unless I OD or wear a bad mix.
The important thing is to wear pheromones that make people feel good around you. Whether they feel good because you seem open and trustworthy (Scent of Eros); strong, stable and reliable (chikara); fun, edgy and daring (NPA)… or whatever seems irrelevant to the primary goal of being popular and well liked.
If none is having negative impacts on your friends, I bet you’re wearing too much. But there is also the (slim) possibility that none is simply not for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
6) The old none + Androstenol mix seemed to be better on certain women, and I wonder if a mix of New Pheromone Additive (NPA) + Scent of Eros would be comparable. Afaik NPA is only androstenone right? And Scent of Eros is Androstenol + Androsterone?

NPA + Scent of Eros is a good combo, but I don’t think there’s any way to predict how it will work on a specific woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
7) Do you think that phero colognes are really a good idea in the long run, or do they just allow you to “play out of your league” for a short while?

Pheromones let you play at a deeper level, which tends to broaden the playing field.
Whether or not they’re a good idea depends on how you play them and what your long term objectives are.
If you believe that somewhere in this world there is a woman just for you, and if you meet her everything will click and you’ll live happily ever after… Or if you believe that hard work and talent are all it takes to be successful… pheromones are a bad idea.
If you believe that life is a competition for survival and the propagation of your genes, then synthetic pheromones are a godsend.
If your world-view lies somewhere in between these two extremes, pheromones are a neat little tool. Just practice moderation and don’t pick up any destructive habits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
9) How do you figure out the most suitable phero combo to wear, considering your natural phero signature? Pure trial and error seems pretty risky since this is powerful stuff and you never know when you’re going to run into Her.

At the beginning it’s all trial and error but, as you gain experience, you develop a sense of how these chemicals work. You develop an intuitive grasp of how to combine things and you’re less likely to create a really bad impression.
Really bad OD’s are part of the learning process and they’re never the end of the world. There’s always the opportunity to make things better another day.”

[Socrates]

To you guys who think pheromones get women

pheromones don’t get you women. Yes I repeat – pheromones don’t get you women. What they actually can do varies based on the description. Some of them will work as advertised for you and others won’t. Overall though pheromones are not going to make it so that women hook up with you. That is up to YOU. It all depends on YOU. What pheromones WILL do is to make your job easier in the following ways: It will cause women to take more interest in you and what you say. It will give you confiden…

FIRE AND ICE (July 2008):
“ To you guys who think pheromones get women
pheromones don’t get you women. Yes I repeat – pheromones don’t get you women.

What they actually can do varies based on the description. Some of them will work as advertised for you and others won’t. Overall though pheromones are not going to make it so that women hook up with you. That is up to YOU. It all depends on YOU.

What pheromones WILL do is to make your job easier in the following ways:

1. It will cause women to take more interest in you and what you say.

2. It will give you confidence and make you smell nice which will result in more green lights from women for you to go talk to them.

3. If things get physical (even if it’s just physical in regards to a hug or a touch to the back) they will enhance the feelings that she has.

4. Depending on the type of pheromone, it may get her mood to be more constructive for a situation, like how shine tends to put people in good moods.

5. A lot of the time the things you say will have more of an effect on her, and cause a more favorable reaction.

6. Often it will make it less likely that she will blow you off after you spend some time talking to her. Of course if you OD or she is not affected by the pheromones or doesnt like how you smell – than it can just as easily result in her excusing herself more quickly than normal, so it works both ways.

However the marketing that other people use to get people to buy pheromones (not this company which is very straight forward and honest) tends to make it sound like women will be jumping your bones all over and you can just be the same way as you always have been, even if you don’t get women.

This is simply NOT true. You still need to interact with these women, you still need to show intent, you still need to be having fun and not needing anything from them, you still need to bring value to those around you.

What pheromones WILL do is they will give you a slight edge that you might not otherwise have.

At the end of the day either your someone who is comfortable interacting with women, who knows how to talk to them, and who knows how and when to turn them on, to touch them, how to look at them, how to be with them – or your someone who doesn’t. If your someone who doesn’t than the pheromones will just give you a little more practice to become someone who does. If your someone who does than the pheromones will help your batting average a bit.

Some tips for guys who suck with women:

Now I don’t want to leave you guys hanging on a negative note if you don’t know how to deal with women. So I will give some basic tips that are nuetral and not personality dependant – that will help you EVERY time:

1. If a woman holds eye contact, smiles, says ANYTHING to you, ASKS for anything from you, touches you, makes a scene in front of you to draw your attention, laughs or giggles at what you say, or listens to you as if your important – than she is interested in you.

2. If you are talking to a woman and she does not leave – even if she is not doing ANYTHING to show interest – than she is interested in you.

• when I say interested i dont mean she wants you to stick a cucumber into her vagina while talking dirty in her ear and spanking her arse. What I mean is she has not yet REJECTED you and is still interested.

3. If you are talking to a woman try to find out some things about her. Who is she here with, is she having fun, what are her plans later, is she adventurous – what kind of person is she. Im not saying make it an interview – but throw these little down to earth tidbits in here and there so you can start to paint a picture of what she is and see if its even what you want. You should always be trying to see if a woman is someone you are even going to want to spend intimate time with, you should never be happy with any woman that will give you the time of day.

4. Be laid back and chill. Often if you two are having fun and connecting on some level the woman will start to make some subtle moves. These are very subtle. If she starts talking about sex or porn or hitting on you or taking it in a sexual direction – or if she is getting turned on – tone it down a bit, dont just jump all over it. There is no rush. If yer meant to hook up in the near future it will happen, you don’t need to salvate. It’s just sex. Sex should be the icing on the cake not the main course and certainly no requirement for talking to her.

5. on the same token if things dont have a sexual vibe to them, spontaneously inject it at some point to see how she reacts, and don’t care how she reacts – you just want to see where she is at. it doesnt really matter how she reacts as long as she is still talking to you after.

6. finally make sure to touch her a bit at some point. Show a little dominance, show her that she can feel safe by taking control, leading a bit, palming her head, ushering her first with your hand on her lower back, giving her a half hug, spinning her and pulling her in and then pushing her away. Have fun touching her, show her that she is yours, that a night with you will fullfill her deepest desires as a woman that she is afraid to reveal to the average man because she cant trust him to accept her for what she is.

Advanced update:

Also some women get a thrill out of being challenging and having you work for them. Do not take this personally. Do not react to this. Do not try harder or get mad. Just continue to do what your doing, have fun, keep it light, and realize that they do this for YOU. They do it for YOU so that both YOU and HER can have a heightened sense of pleasure and endorphines when and if you two finally do hook up. Just carry on as if it’s no big deal and don’t lose your composure. Act like a man who has been there and done that – even if you haven’t. If she really doesn’t want to talk to you anymore, you will get the hint – trust me.”

[Socrates]

After that classic post from FIRE AND ICE, we now have Examine teaching us the importance of ‘not holding back’ when opportunities, that pheromone ‘hits’ can create, present themselves (composure still a necessity of course)…

examine (I think this was examine sometime in 2006 and if not I apologise – cannot find the post just remember the meaning vividly so the words won’t be exactly the same):
“In American Football terms, pheromones create more gaps than usual for you to run through. People think that pheromones will push you or push you harder but that’s not what they do in my experience. You have to do all the pushing yourself. Now when I see a ‘gap’ I try and run through it like I’m the Heisman Trophy winner.”

P74/p79/p90: Ultra Charm!

as for my attitude, i noticed i was all over the place. i broke out of my shell before the first shot. it was like i was in cancun or rosarito, and i was there to PAAAARTYAAA. notice, you go to a club to party, but when you are on vacation, its much much different wink i didnt have to spit much game, like talk a good one to dance or any other ‘stuff’ it all just flowed, and was quite easy because of such IOIs. I just played off them. but thats a rule of mine anyways, you see an IOI you pounce …

examine (March 26, 2007):
“as for my attitude, i noticed i was all over the place. i broke out of my shell before the first shot. it was like i was in cancun or rosarito, and i was there to PAAAARTYAAA. notice, you go to a club to party, but when you are on vacation, its much much different wink

i didnt have to spit much game, like talk a good one to dance or any other ‘stuff’ it all just flowed, and was quite easy because of such IOIs. I just played off them.

but thats a rule of mine anyways, you see an IOI you pounce on that sh*t like an owl on a jackrabbit.

this was my favorite type of IOI the whole evening. seeing people do this ( )

i like when people do that. it makes me do it. LOL”

[Phya]

If there was ever a sacred pickup manual, ala American Pie, the collected wisdom of these guys would probably be it.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by Phya
If there was ever a sacred pickup manual, ala American Pie, the collected wisdom of these guys would probably be it.

Thanks Phya. Yea it’s ment to be a collection, with themes and issues the way I see them, of the what pheromones do in pickup scenarios. There is plenty of great info on the net on tips for pickups and ‘game’ (including on this forum) but there isn’t really much about how to use pheromones for this purpose.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by Socrates
The problem us guys have all grappled with, particularly given that many of the pheromones result in inviting smiles, is coming on too strong from these hits or signs of interest. ‘Active disenterest’ and a ‘level head’ sounds like the perfect remedy for this. Don’t turn into some ‘puppy dog’ when a desirable woman flashes her whites at you - easier said than done I guess…

MX101: any idea if it works? - #103 by examine
examine (June 18, 2006):
“ps. another thing i noticed. lets say you do get a hit, and you start being a little forward. sometimes coming on.. shys them away. one girl was giggling like mad and had a hard time giving me eye contact (which was very annoying) and another girl looked at me like I dropped my pants in front of her. mind you she smiled at me first.

then my friend Nat said some girl thought i was hot, so I go over to her, and she’s blushing. so I ask her to dance, and she said no because she was nervous. I got her on the floor, but she wouldnt stop smiling, her feet were glued to the ground as she attempted to dance, and she was extremely shy, she told me i was hot, then giggled (as if i was whispering in her ear) and said she felt dumb. so i let her scurry off back to her friends.

but then 30 min later i see her dancing with some clown. alrighty!

i still dont know what happened there.

Instant Shine being Brad Pitt

I say MX 101 is a WWE superstar.

Yea, guys enying, and ladies seek out your alph, but once you approach her, and she has all 6’6 270lbs 3 % body fat in her front of her, it may intimidate. now some girls have confidence and will try to subdue/seduct the beast. other girls may run. even tho later that night shes thinking about the pure power of biceps.

im going to try this mix with 3 sprays of TAH/TAL/TAA

it outta calm the shyness effect down a little.”

TAF = Fearless
MHarris (June 30, 2006):
“That’s right. Good advice.

The PUAs call this “The 3 second rule”. You approach within 3 seconds (or the bare minimum to get over there), because then you don’t have the time required to feel approach anxiety.

Internal feelings are slower than that. They’re the slowest part of our internal experience (which is one reason why people get “stuck” in emotional states, despite their conscious wishes to feel something else).

Also, this impresses the heck out of a women, both consciously and unconsciously. Men, in nature, are supposed to be doing the approaching.

A man who approaches almost immediately is the most alpha. Women get a real tingle or other internal response out of this.

You’re fulfilling both your and her biological destiny by approaching right away. Makes you both feel really good. You both get immediate psychological & physical rewards from it. Sort of like a pre-relationship orgasm (which is another physical reward for a job well done in the mating game)”

Rob (June 30, 2006):
“…Lol.. just on the side.. make sure this immediate psychological and physical reward does not over whelm you. Its funny how women can easily manipulate men by making them light up with just a smile. Its like they turn men into puppy dogs or something.

If you want to maintain Alpha, then you must maintain a level head in all situations and DO NOT go total EMO HARD CORE over any girl. Besides, you would not want to be seen as a fruitcake (you being a guy).”

MHarris (June 30, 2006):
“…Yes, they shouldn’t feel as if they’ve won you over (i.e., if you instantly melt in response to their smile)

Otherwise, they get an internal feeling of completion, and a little voice in their heads that say “onto the next conquest”.

Something won too easily is not enjoyed. That’s why you utilize active disinterest.

Re: emo hard core fruitcake… hahaha… you have a way with words ”

We have seen above that we need to be composed when a target flashes a smile or gives us some other indicator of interest after being exposed to the mones (as well as the wearer’s charms of course ).

But, of course, we also need to be composed ourselves after exposure to these molecules. Here, some of the big names from the forum in the last few years show that even the best can lose composure at times…

Relatively new to pheromones- Turn up the heat

What can you guys tell me about TUTH? - Experiences? Hits? Best way to use? ALSO, how does it compare to alter ego, and how has AE worked for you? Thanks

catlord17 (April 24, 2006):
“…Alpha androstenol makes me blabber after a certain dose, and I never realize it until I’ve been doing it for a while. It has that effect on the people I’m around, too…”

Androstenone overdoses are no fun
Rbt (August 15, 2006):

"Sigma’s comment about the -none OD where he says he knew he was being affected by the OD, but was unable to “control” it, is what has me concerned about the effects of pheromone products like Instant Honesty.

Unless there is enough difference between how -none affects you, and how -nols (-Beta Androstenol in this case) affects you, I still have this fear that using Instant Honesty in a way that you get as much of a dose as your “target” may cause the unintended result that you blab too much “truth” or reveal too much in a situation where you are wearing the product with the intent of having an advantage over the target.

(There are times I’m sure where we are wearing pheromone products with the intent to influence someone else, not ourselves.)

Opinions/observations?"

P74 - Good for everything?

As we get everything settled here, we’re excited to introduce new mixes, some of which will be P74 heavy. Quick question for those of who have a lot of experience with P74. Do you find that this enhances any mix? Any negatives? From what I’ve seen with my own eyes, the only negative might be the time you could need for social interactions. I’m not sure P74 is really appropriate unless you have time to hangout and bond. I haven’t seen this in use in a red hot sexually charged encounters, thoug…

Sigma (April 5, 2007):
“…I think for guys sometimes you can be a bit too fun. Being fun is good, but it can work against you if you go overboard and seem to lose your composure.

This is what happened to me when I wore a high dose of P74 and got drunk. A pinch A314 is a good anchor though. Keeps you more consciously aware of yourself, while allowing others to react positively to the P74.

As for the boyfriend effect…I’ve seen some evidence of this myself. Women seem to get very clingy when I wear this stuff out (as mentioned in one case during my earlier trials with it).”

Pheromones and the friend zone: is attraction harder once you're already friends?

Ookay, so after my first couple months of field testing, i realize a few things about how pheromones work. many things i realized was how it wouldn’t work for you, it works with you. more of that in my older post in sig. i’ve read Tater said that “once you trash your signature on a target, it’s over, you’re done” i didn’t really quite understand this mean, and i MAY even be misinterpreting him, but i wanted to elaborate on an experience from this line. In school this year, i rarely hang out wit…

PheroQuirk (December 13, 2007):
“Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis
i’ve read Tater said that “once you trash your signature on a target, it’s over, you’re done”

the major way you can screw up is by wearing a too sexual/aggressive mix in the wrong context when she isn’t ready for it. so a none/Edge overdose can ruin peoples’ perception of you semi-permanently almost independently of how you behave (and the self-effects are likely to get you deeper into trouble).

I haven’t had any experience of wearing a friendly mix (eg Androstenol, Instant Openness) and screwing things up - unless I didn’t steer it right (eg talking too much or revealing things I shouldn’t due to combined effects of betanol+alcohol)…”

[Socrates]

It is so important to show that you are confident, high value and in control of yourself particularly when wearing large amounts of social pheromones like Alpha-Androstenol…

Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?

There’s already enough bnol and other pheromones in Instant Openness to refine it (to “steer” the effect) and make it more usable. Unless, of course, you want an extremely candid, almost truth serum like effect of Instant Honesty. Then you could pile on the beta-nol. Try 40 to 100mcg of alpha nol to “loosen up”. Be funny, but make sure your behavior communicate that you are still in control, and a higher value. Keep your head held high, stand straight, talk loudly and deliberately, etc. Lik…

MHarris (February 14, 2006):
“…Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9
I know I sometimes can come off as too serious or I “need to live’n up a bit”..“get loose”. At the same time I am very well kept and I guess you could call me somewhat of a metrosexual…I certainly don’t wear anything flamboyant though. I wear toned down colors.

Try 40 to 100mcg of alpha Androstenol to “loosen up”. Be funny, but make sure your behavior communicate that you are still in control, and a higher value. Keep your head held high, stand straight, talk loudly and deliberately, etc.

Like a successful, professional comedian, you have to still control the room when you’re exercising humor. (“bad” or inexperienced comedians are notorious for losing control over the crowd and being “walked on” by the audience)…”

From LS:-
Gegogi (October 26, 2006):
“With chemset 'Androstenol and Scent of Eros I’ve only found “the more the merrier” so far. Increasingly higher dosages only make people friendly and more open in my experience. At a certain point some women start to lose it and become motormouths, totally losing control and saying whatever pops in their heads.
Quote:
but have had 2 incidences where a woman has acted a bit “not respectful”.

Are you sure they weren’t pulling the “cocky 'n funny” routine on you? I love to tease women and oft they will tease right back, trying to out do me. And women really know how to cut to the bone as they’re usually better observers of character than men. However it’s all in fun and such little tug-of-wars often end in bed.

My experience with pheromones is they enhance and amp up the real you. If you’re an engaging, confident man, you’re even more engaging and confident in their eyes. I’ve never been treated with disrespect while wearing 'Androstenol. However, respect is something you earn. It is not something you win instantly by bulling someone or putting them down. They may stop dissing you to your face–out of fear–but in their mind you’ve graduated to an even larger level of dip-shit-ism.

I suspect if you’re a wuss at heart, depressed or negative pheromones will not be helpful as they broadcast and amp up your weakness.”

[Socrates]

Some more great advice is pasted in below about how to get the most out of a mainly social pheromone product (without significant AndrostEnone or A314). One spray of Instant Gentleman (12.5 mcg of AndrostErone + 2.5 mcg in buffers) to one spray of Spaceland (50 mcg of Alpha-Androstenol) should replicate the classic Scent of Eros 4:1 Alpha-Androstenol:Androsterone ratios.

From LS:-
a.k.a. (May 16, 2004):
“Streetwise Tips for Scent of Eros

1. You Are The Man
   Whatever it is that she NEEDS from a man, you have it, you know that you have it, and you’re going to make her work for it. (As in, “Yeah, I know you want to ride the seven waves of tantric bliss. But what do I get out of it?)

2. You Have The Magic Touch
   The most powerful effect of Scent of Eros is that it erases personal space. So pump up the kino: a light touch on her forearm, a friendly hand on her shoulder, tenderly brush the hair from her face, a bold hand on her thigh… it all depends on the context.

3. You Create Anticipation
   This one requires a bit of Art. A good rule of thumb is to stay 10 minutes behind your desires.
   For example. If you want to check her out, hold off until she notices (and gets a whiff) of you. If you want to talk, just glance at her a couple of times (showing your interest) before walking up to her. If you want to dance, talk a little longer. If you want to kiss her, stare at her lips a couple of times.

4. You Are In Control
   When things get hot, make sure that you are the one driving her passion and not vice versa. Don’t stick your tongue down her throat unless she’s hungry for it. Don’t mess with her zipper unless she’s reaching up your shirt and etc.”

DrSmellThis (May 16, 2004):
“Good work, AKA ! These all seem great to me, though some of the “pick up artist types” might disagree with the “waiting” part of #3 (remember the “10 second rule”?). But women like men who show discipline combined with passion. Let her see you masterfully controlling your passions, (part of being “cool” – helping her feel safe and protected along with horny) the idea being that you have themnot that you don’t; as opposed to them controlling you, until she almost begs you to do her. Let a little passion escape, but only when well-controlled. Always show mastery. You are not the least bitafraid of doing whatever you want (e.g., approaching her), you are rather “always” in control of what you do! (thinks to himself, “but if I wasn’t you’d damn well know it, sweetie!”) You are so good at controlling your personal raging bull, in fact, that you are the perfect man for her to feel safe unleashing her own screaming uncontrolled passions with. You might just, ahem, tie her to the bed to help her out that way. Sometimes an almost imperceptible naughty smile or raising of the eyebrows (a la Bond) is good that way, for example. Or thinking to yourself, “Don’t make me come over there and do you!””

[Socrates]

Some of the experts agree that at least a smidge of AndrostEnone (accompanied by other more social products like IS and IO ) is probably necessary and has a purpose in the first stage (the Attraction stage) of Mystery’s model (see quote below). Note that TaoistBiker makes the good point that “you want to be able to generate attraction in any situation without relying on pheros.”

ATTRACTION STAGE
A - 1 = OPEN
A - 2 = INTEREST
A - 3 = F2M INTEREST

How do you use Turn Up the Heat? As an attractant, or as a sexual segue?
TaoistBiker (November 6, 2006):
“…Attraction: a process containing phases that you run that can sometimes finish in less that 30 seconds; but need to go back into regularly even if you are in a relationship. Women process information sooo rapidly that if you are doing approaches you want to be able to generate attraction in any situation without relying on pheros. Pheros take time to work and time can be the enemy here. So pheros are just wardrobe to me – bio-psychological peacocking that may or may not have time to work…”

How do you use Turn Up the Heat? As an attractant, or as a sexual segue?
Jasmin (November 3, 2006):
How do you use Turn Up the Heat? As an attractant, or as a sexual segue?
Hey guys,

We were wondering how you use Turn Up The Heat .

Originally, it was intended to literally " Turn Up The Heat " after you’ve been with someone for awhile (opened them with Instant Openness , Instant Shine, etc.), and want to transition to the next stage… something steamier with more physical oomph.

The To Go version would especially be useful to help “turn the page” to a sexier chapter, since you can keep it on you at all times and use it at just the right moment.

Guys in the pickup community might call this a “phase shifter”. Neil Strauss (Style, Annihilation Method), Erik Markovich (Mystery, Mystery Method ), etc.

However, I’ve also seen that a lot of people try to use it as an attractant itself. Something meant to catch the eye of a willing doe eyed vixen.

Guys in the pickup community might say this using Turn Up The Heat as an “opener”, especially those who use “direct game” (like our own Rob does). Blatant, raw, “I’m the alpha male sex god” energy. This isn’t common today. The bulk of PUAs today use fun energy and comfort to open.

Your feedback may lead to a change in it’s diffusion formula, and also affect it’s fragrance. We might reduce the essential oil components if quite a few of you use it as an attractant."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
SwingerMD (May 13, 2003):
“TBiRD,

Agreed.

The use - nol first then -none later strategy has been around for quite a while on this forum. It is very logical.

I tend to usually use this strategy though: When I’m out and about hunting/wandering around I’ve found it is the best to use a heavy -none product. The -none product seems to get the attention focused on you (especially with complete strangers) rather than using a -Androstenol product like Scent of Eros which seems to encourage other people around you to “hook-up”.

After getting her interest, phone number, and a date you use the Scent of Eros during the first few dates to make her relax, feel comfortable, and to gather enough info to see if this is someone that you can carry this to the next level.

When you're ready for that next level, you then hit them with that -none product.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction
Jasmin (November 3, 2006):
“ Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction
Which pheromones do you guys use for each phase of seduction, in terms of something like the Mystery Method or Neil Strauss’ Game?

We were thinking something like this:

Attraction: Instant Openness or Liquid Sunshine + Instant Shine + small amount of Turn Up The Heat
The Instant Openness or one of the Liquid Sunshine mixes would make people chatty, make 'em feel good

The Shine will make them feel even better. Increase the energy, and make you seem like one of those people everyone likes to be around. An optimistic, bright breath of fresh air.
The small amount of Turn Up The Heat will let 'em know you’re not just a friend.

Comfort: Instant Openness + a small amount of Instant Shine, an even tinier amount of Turn Up The Heat , maybe a little A314 or something based on MX102 through MX105 . Optional Instant Honesty

The Shine would keep it buzzy, non-boring.

The small amount of Turn Up The Heat would help prevent friendism

A314 would add comfort, and position you as a classical man ( DHV ). I think the key would be using not too much. Maybe even less than 1 drop or 1 spray of MX102 is ideal. Our own Thomas Lavoie does something like this.

Instant Honesty would make her feel like she’s known you forever. A true comfort accelerator (but maybe too comfortable in high amounts?). (I’ve gotten a lot of feedback saying that A314 and Honesty are actually killer for mystery’s C3)

Seduction: Turn Up The Heat + TAL + P79 . Optional: A little Shine and/or Instant Openness

The Turn Up The Heat would add the sexual spark

The P79 would make 'em wanna do something about it, and reduce LMR

The TAL would make women aggressive and direct (chime in here, Taoist Biker and others!) and also reduce LMR .

What do you guys think?”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates

hey folks

Hey there boom! Glad to hear about your newfound interest in modifying social situations. For any first time TUTH users, I totally recommend tempering it with Shine (or other feel good phero blends). You’ll get a good feel of the energy and heat of TUTH, and you’ll soon learn that it’s possible to wear it in an assortment of situations. Spend a week or two with is and see how it jibes with your body chemistry, and then you’ll have a really good idea of how it will work out and about. Y…

Jasmin (June 13, 2007):
“Hey there boom!

Glad to hear about your newfound interest in modifying social situations.

For any first time Turn Up The Heat users, I totally recommend tempering it with Shine (or other feel good phero blends). You’ll get a good feel of the energy and heat of Turn Up The Heat , and you’ll soon learn that it’s possible to wear it in an assortment of situations. Spend a week or two with is and see how it jibes with your body chemistry, and then you’ll have a really good idea of how it will work out and about.

You CAN use a smidge - and I’m talking smidge here - in casual situations.

Think of it this way. Turn Up The Heat says, “I’m going to have sex!”. You can wear too much and freak people out, OR you can wear a tiny dash, stir up some sexual mystique, and layer it with some feel good pheros so people associate feeling good and feeling aroused with you!

Sound good? Give me a call if you have Qs.

Your gift cert is turning up the heat in your inbox ”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
Pheromones for Pickup: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction
Gem (December 19, 2006):
“I don’t know pheromones but I do know game - here is my input, take it or leave it.

It is important to understand the differences within the different sections of the Mystery method model:

Attraction is A 1 (the opener), A2 (female to male attraction), A3 (Male to female attraction)

Comfort - Can all be lumped together but is essentially building deeper raport and connection.

Seduction, is split into thre but only two are relevent - Getting her horny, and LMR (last minute resistance)

A 1 - Instant openess, instant female magic or instant shine - baiscally all you are trying to do at this point is get the girl(s) to speak to you you so anything that relaxes her, opens her up or makes her feel good near you will work

A2 - female to male attraction, I am not going to go into what builds attraction, but I will just say, you don’t want anything that makes her feel comfortable or connected to you (the secret is to make her feel you are better than her or unobtainable) so I suggest Turn Up The Heat or Instant jerk, or maybe even >A314 if congruent with your personality.

A3 - male to female attraction, at this point you want to show her she has won you over (not sexually) baisically this is where you first show attraction by complimenting her you want her to link compliments from you with feeling good so my pheromone of choice would be instant shine or female magic.

Comfort - deeper raport, deep conversations, connection, shared experiences - Instant openess, Instant shine, Instant honesty …

Seduction

S1 - getting her hot, time to Turn Up The Heat (again), instant jerk, (basically sex pheromones

S3 - LMR - This is when she wonders if she is doing the right thing (after all she only just met you) You DO NOT want to be winning her over by palying how horny she is feeling off against her will power (that is IMO immoral and inneffective) You want to reassure her - so once again you want some reassuring, feel good products (shine, Honesty, openess)

Now, that is a fantasy situation - in reality you cannot change and remove pheromones that quickly for example the whole attraction phase can be run within the space of 20 seconds (trust me i have done it) So I suggest you identify your own sticking points within that framework and select the right pheromones from there. For instance my sticking point is A3 - I have no problem opening, I can build attraction easily - too easily that leads to the problem that girls think I am being insincere or playing with them once i begin to take an interest in them - so I would stick to Shine or openess to assist me and not use any sexual pheromones.

Me personally - I will stay away from any sexual pheromones beyond our first meeting. It jsut seems a bit too much like pressuring someone into doing something they wouldn’t normally do becuase they get too horny and that doesn’t sit well with me. I like to guide all sexual encounters towards a meaningfull lasting relationship (open relationship), so I am prepared to wait and ensure she is 100% happy and has made the decision to escalate sexually with all the facts in place (including the fact that I am a PUA and will not commit to her). But that is just my personal Moral Stance so take it as you will. I would rather sleep well at night even if it means I don’t sleep with a different person each night. once i have already slept with a girl I will certainly use sexual pheromones to spice up the sex.

The above recommendation is for MM style game (indirect),

If your style is direct I would recommend just Turn Up The Heat or Instant Jerk if you can handle it…”

[Socrates]

Some interesting posts from the past on pheromones pushing things in a woman’s brain and the way this can backfire. I will analyse some of the issues raised in more detail later. Others are welcome to chime in …

Instant Openness, Instant Honesty, Instant Shine, Instant Female Magic, A314!!!
MHarris (January 4, 2006):
"Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
suppose you have an amazingly open, deep and almost intimate discussion with a girl you just met (or at least don’t know very well). what do you think goes through her mind afterwards? i mean i could imagine she could be left with a very positive impression of you and her interaction with you if she can find a way to rationalise it.

but if her mental map is incongruous with how she feels i suppose she might feel strange about things. so I suppose it might sometimes be important as well as behaving in a way thats congruent with your pheromonal signature to indirectly hint at potential reasons for the openness and your good rapport that will stick in her head later on when she is going over things again.

I don’t know. but as MHarris has pointed out I think it is key to find ways to strengthen congruence.

Congruency helps a ton, unless you’re deranged and actually want to make someone accept an incongruency. (which works wonderfully to create slaves - cults and cult like organizations know that if they can someone to accept enough things which don’t make sense, they’ll have a mushy mind to push around)

Congruency comes with practice. With being.

I’m sure you were an astronaut as a child. For a week or a day. But it is what you pretend to be for years that you “are now”.

All reality comes from make believe. We become what we practice preaching and being, it’s as simple as that."

P74
tacitus (April 1, 2006):
"So… HOW were you coping with these unexplained feelings ? On the level of external behavior ? What sorts of internal dialog did you have ? What did you choose to do with these strong impuises ? This is a good illustration of what a naive subject may be feeling under such circumstances. Assume that you had never heard of pheromones, you are a beautiful woman quite accustomed to fending off approaches, and suddenly you have, bolt out of the blue, an intense, anomolous feeling-drive. Do you immediately act on it ? Do you stop and ask yourself WTF ? Does the frontal cortex get to work (it has the job of inhibiting a lot of the impulses originating from more primitve regions of the brain)… can you sense extra brain activity trying to make sense out of, and direct these impulses in socially approved ways ? Exactly what IS happening is a rapid dialog between your neocortex and your limbic mind, searching for the correct behavior pattern, which it can find on file because it hasn’t experienced these feeling-drives in these contexts, so it doesn’t have a set of behavioral references to fall back on, resulting in discomfort or confusion. Usually when the brain has no tried and true “inner video clips” of the right behavior it will respond by shutting down somewhat, on the assumption that ANY excessive behavior might be socially incorrect… OTOH persons with frontal brain injuries are notorious for “sharing” whatever comes into their minds, often to the shock and horror of others who don’t understand the ramifications of such an injury… "

Abreaction to A314?
itwow (June 7, 2006):
"The “attitude-ricochet” problem seems to be aligned with ODs of dosage and/or response. This condition happens with almost every product. Individuals exposed to pheromones gives dramatic responses & experience “buyer’s remorse” after examining their own behavior. They make a conscious choice not to repeat said behavior when interacting with wearer in future. Defence shields are up, a result of recoil from pushing the envelope.

A way for wearer to mitigate this issue is to share the responsibility for the direction the interaction is headed to. Don’t always take what they give you (pheromones influencing), also try to control your own passions. Set an objective, stop when it is achieved. Congruency into context of phero-cloud is essential (this is tough with so many mixes).

Over-dramatic responses will cut short long term prospects. I never thought of this issue when started using pheromones. This is an aspect rarely highlighted."

Abreaction to A314?
tacitus (June 7, 2006):
"…As for attitude richochet , yes, when anyone is inconsistent with their self image they will be unsettled by their own behavior. That’s why I’ve learned to relax and not push the envelope when I’m wearing an intense pheromone mix. Especially when I sense someone becoming aroused or edged up, I become as empathetic and other focused as I can…

They reward is later, without the pheromones, when they have a memory of intense arousal, or whatever, they tend to be far more open, natural, relaxed… I think the femme brain is saying the guy is cool, he didn’t take advantage of a moment of weakness… so now with the ocassional use model I have a much better time, women show up more, the phero imprint is there for them to refer to, they feel safer not being in the grip of intense feelings…"

80-90% Game, 10-20% Pheromones
PheroQuirk (November 22, 2006):
"Quote:
The difference here is that she’s virtually decided the outcome before you say word one. She’s so interested that it just clicks in her brain that you already are friend/lover/boyfriend/whatever. This one relies heavily on pheromone/whatever trigger and pheromone/situation/historically based assumptions on her part, not so much the other things.

I agree with what you said about that particular type of girl. But more generally you may trigger a click-whirr circuit that leads to regret - you might trigger very strong feelings and then have her run away because she is scared of them and doesn’t understand why she feels that way. Limbic brain vs neocortex.

I think one way this happens is if you have attraction without communicating enough value or establishing rapport. You have a great physical connection, but then a few days later she flakes when you call.

So you need to provide an ‘excuse’ to justify those feelings… Gosh, reading this it sounds manipulative but that’s not how I mean it.

Thoughts?"

80-90% Game, 10-20% Pheromones
80-90% Game, 10-20% Pheromones
PheroQuirk (November 22, 2006):
"…Some unorganised and very basic thoughts on how pheromones change things are below. Love to hear thoughts on how we can develop this…

d)elicitation of values, rapport etc. beta - Androstenol ! but need to steer (and/or give her an excuse for such intimate conversation so early on) otherwise she might feel weird about having revealed so much to you…
f)attraction… perhaps one should just be aware that maybe this phase can be accelerated by none/ Androstenol etc. need to provide a reason why she might feels this way otherwise regret later on ?.."

Field Report - I’m sold…
PheroQuirk (December 18, 2006):
“…In particular the aggression from guys (and menstruating women) in response to high none quickly becomes tiresome. You have to work hard on rapport and demonstrating value to avoid phone flaking or buyer’s remorse…”

The “Archetypes” of Woman we Desire
sigma (April 30, 2007):
"Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
Yes, but maybe not to wear when you first meet her on the day 2 - for many girls you probably need to re-establish (at least for a few minutes, if not longer) a degree of comfort and that may be a difficult if you are a big scary none monster. I would say it is more solid to keep some Turn Up The Heat to apply later on in the day 2 when you are ready to escalate.

Its suprising how the same pheromone mix that worked so well at building initial attraction can cause so much awkwardness and intimidation once you bring the same lady into a more personal setting. I’ve made the mistake of wearing highly aggressive energetic pheromones in more ‘comfort’ contexts in the past, and it can be a little problematic. It can creates a lot of congruency issues, even if you try to work past it.

I’ve found that rather than taking the risk of coming off too aggressively in these settings, its best to leave androstenone completely out. You can create a strong sense of sexual attraction without androstenone much easier than it is to build comfort when you have too much androstenone on.

I think sometimes we all get a little to zealous and ambitious with our mixes, building mixes that have TOO much of an impact on people ( OD ?). For comfort buidling type interactions, I would really try to avoid anything that creates too much awkwardness…a lot of times these situations are already awkward enough as is, if not for you, for the lady. Instead focus on pheromones that keep the mood light, uplifted, and keep the social interaction running. Something to keep you and the lady at ease througout the process. Androstenone definitely causes a lot of awkwardness, but so do overly serious and intimate tones like high doses of betanol (honesty) and A314 . Pheromones or not, people may not feel comfortable feeling that way around you right away.

The mood really has to be right for people to be receptive to the pheromones you wear, and the pheromones you wear should reflect the mood. I don’t think pheromones themselves should ever be used to set the mood…rather they should be used in a way thats congruent to the mood that you have set. Pheromones are the facilitators, not the initiators.

Anyway, Just a few thoughts"

Essence of Man Pig !
tacitus (September 12, 2007)
“…note: I deliberately leave out the alpha- androstenol bcause it is the most purely romantic of all the pheromones… definitely add in Alpha Androstenol for any sexmix… if you put any sort of Alpha Androstenol in a “first contact” mix, you can get an abreaction… they go into self doubting, self critical mode after, and may actually want MORE distance next time… any social thing that comes on too strong, goes too far too fast, and doesn’t make emotional sense IS going to activate the frontal cortex of the brain which will want to know WHY am I feeling all this warm fuzzy stuff ??? All in all the P86 / P96 is a really interesting pair, because it doesn’t push or drivea nything, it does create a deep sense of self-integration or wholeness, which is fundamentally sane feeling…”

Anyone struggling with phero enhanced “oooh u soo sexy!”, then she just flake
sugarspice (April 11, 2008):
"My two cents. We raise a man’s self esteem because we want to be liked. We flake on you because we’re involved/in love with someone else.
OR because we he’s a only there for ahem. If it’s only for ahem, you’re not on the priority list. There is more to a woman’s desires than her libido.

Once, I had to break free from this massive chemistry bond with someone else. Met someone new. He WAS cute so I was honest about it. Then he acted like he wanted me badly. That spells desperation. It did not make me less in love with the other or more in love with him.

Massive Chemistry Bond = Trouble = Oh no my body is taking over = I need to step back to see if there is more to this.

If only chemistry and I fall for him, I may get hurt. <looks at guys dating history/reputation> If you have a sorry reputation she will hurt you first to prevent herself getting played. That come forms of avoiding you or messing with your mind or filling her schedule with other men.

If she genuinely likes you and feels safe with you, she won’t play those kinds of games with you. If it’s missing one…your on the gaming list. We don’t even know we do this to tell you the truth."

Anyone struggling with phero enhanced “oooh u soo sexy!”, then she just flake
tisha23 (April 11, 2008):
"Look at it this way, Something like Turn Up The Heat or AMMO with cause arousal in a women. You will notice hits from some and others will repress the urge for whatever reason. Prehaps they are involved with someone already or somthing. Maybe they just dont feel they connected with you which is a big one for women. Remember men really dont need to connect to have sex or enter a relationship. Women on the other hand do 95% of the time.

Are you using anything to get over that last hurdle and give of a calming trusting connected feeling?

Instant Gentleman , Instant Honesty , Instant Female Magic even Instant Openness or Instant Shine will help.

EST effects men differently then women, we dont feel close and cuddly from it. We feel protective and motherly. Men get cuddly and attentive. Probably because its the pregnacy pheromone.

I think alot of guys run into the this problem because what turns them on and causes attraction isnt what turns us on or makes us attract.

Yes I know the socials are not as exciting sounding as the sexual pheromones but they complete the circle and those are what pushes you over from the “Hey he is a sexy interesting kind of guy” To "Goddddd he makes me so hot, Back off bitch he is mine "

Tisha"

Anyone struggling with phero enhanced “oooh u soo sexy!”, then she just flake
PheroQuirk (April 12, 2008):
Attraction versus Value - Woodhaven - Pick Up and Seduction Database

Flaking Sucks. Have you ever been in a club, ran a tight fucking set, had girls laughing, touching you and had their complete attention on you all night long?? Ever had those same girls flake? If you answered yes, then read on my friend, that is what this post is all about!
What you did was create massive amounts of surface attraction. But there are two important properties to surface attraction which work against you. Firstly, it is temporary and state based. It goes away when you do. Secondly, it is resisted because to the girls, it is a familiar unempowering emotional response. If you create a ton of surface attraction in the club, take a number and then go home… I guarantee you have a flake on your hands. Flaking is the result of excess attraction combined with a lack of value. Simple and predictable. The only way to win a completely attraction-based game is to lay back completely, give her YOUR number and let her chase you, since any chasing on your part will dissipate her attraction to you. Likewise if you have lost a lot of value for some reason, if she discovered that you misrepresented your value, you cannot chase her to regain it. The attitude must be “Hey, I am who I am, take it or leave it.”

Anyone struggling with phero enhanced “oooh u soo sexy!”, then she just flake
sugarspice (April 12, 2008):
"…WARNING - Girls like me never call. If a guy gives me his number, I will think about it, check out his “value” and if there is enough attraction think about it some more. If he looked like couldn’t decide between me or my girlfriend and was wishy washy I will flake and not even call. Because I think, what a WIMP. I like being chased. Make me work and I will move on to greener grass. Show me you can’t decide and I’m like NEXT.

When guys can’t decide between two girls, 1. the one with the bigger ego will be insulted 2. she doesn’t want to lose a girlfriend over a player. Cut it quick.

There are women who really want a man, usually at the age of 35+ and want to have kids who will chase. They chase you because you have something they want (babies) and they know the probability of winning is high. Other than that, it never benefits a woman to chase. See the book Red Queen, talks about how animals mate, and how for some species it is not beneficial for the female to chase for 5 minutes worth of pleasure when the male is only going to dump his load and then be off doing someone else. Furthermore, she has to carry the burden for 9 months with no support . No a good way to ensure the survival of her babies.

Again, the woman will chase if she feels you are the type to be nurturing and can provide for her and maybe her kids (future or current). Other than that surface attraction don’t mean squat.

Flaking is the act of saying no without hurting your feelings. Men do it all the time. Again, flaking only means someone else is in the works. However, if you do display higher value and she is attracted to you, she will try to squeeze you in.

To prevent yourself from getting hurt, assume she is involved with someone else. That was the case with my girlfriend flaking on a dude this week. She said she would call and she didn’t and he said sorry your loss. Now she is torn as to whether to call him or not. But most likely she will not. She is happy (enough) with her man."

Evolutionary psychology: -Rone men and -None Men
MHarris (October 1, 2005):
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelie
I can grasp this in theory. More than that even, I can see how that can happen. Women getting bored with their reasonable, nurturing spouse and choosing a “bad boy” to have a fling with. Not that I approve of it, to the contrary. I’m just saying I can see why some women would do that.

While everything boils down to our conscious decisions… our minds being given the “final say”… it does seem that we have very STRONG impulses from our genes, and our 7 trillion + cells that express those genes. One conscious mind vs. 7 trillion cells often singing in harmony for food, sex and other basic things. It can be tough to override for some, I imagine.

Not me, though, I’m tough. My brain cells kick the ass of my bodily urges cells. I can’t say I’ve EVER lost control, even once in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelie
BUT! I really don’t believe they will go as far as having offspring with the “bad boy” and then have the “nurturer” raise the child as his own. This might have happened in the Middle Ages, but nowadays they have contraceptives.

That’s the beauty of evolutionary psychology.

Evolutionary psychologist is based on what is, rather than what people say. It’s very subterfuge, very low BS. It’s reality + psychology, and is probably the one of the first forms of psychology that’s actually kind of useful since it has such a strong basis in fact.

In fact, in my experiences, I never remember any woman asking for me to wear protection in extremely heated situations where there was enormous sexual chemistry.

If my brain wasn’t so good at ruining “heat in the moment” events for me, I’m certain they would’ve worked out different than they did.

I’m positive, from those experiences, that MANY (not all, just many) normal men and have some pretty intense, protection free sex when there’s a high -none man and an ovulating, on the prowl woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelie
From a psychological point of view I cannot even remotely imagine living such a lie day in day out with my spouse! I have never met a woman who was in that situation either.

Really??

Plenty of my female friends admit to having protection free sex with men they absolutely hate the next day.

This is talked about in David Buss’ work, and seems to be the typical high -none male / ovulating female interaction.

High -none guys, you get a mad rush, a mad thrill from, you do things with them that are extremely heated… very in the moment… and potentially irresponsible…

and then you often hate them and maybe even hate yourself a little, the next day. Typical pattern.

You see this a lot in popular culture, too. TV shows and movies. Seems to be a universal experience, it’s just that David Buss took the time to put more didatic research into it, and write it out explicitly."

Ammo + IS or How to get things to the next level?
mahalo silver (January 6, 2009):
"Deedy, firstly Serbian girls r so friggin hot, im jealous.

What u r experiencing is very common with androstenone products and are there main drawback. I have lost count of the number of times ive had extreme arousal and interest from girls and they mysteriously flake or dont respond to SMS’s when you try to follow up. The reason is that the sexual arousal, partly activated by the Androstenone will later also activate there ASD mechanism or anti slut defence. In essence, they’re embarassed that they were so attracted and aorused by you at the time. They wake up the next morning and perhaps r embarassed by there memory of this intense attraction and thus ASD is activated. they dont want to feel slutty.

The solutions r twofold.

1. While IS goes a long way to buffering -none and Ammo itself may be considered a well buffered product, perhaps wear less Ammo - try 1 or 2 sprays not 3, and further buffer with Instant Honesty and -Androsterone products like A314 or mx103 .
2. Try as mnuch as possible to try to seal the deal on the night. Then u wont have flakeage at all. This is my big mistake. I forget that while they must already have an existing attraction, the androstenone is really bringing it to the front, to the surface, then and there and in that moment. U must realise that the -none attraction wears off when u r no longer in there presence. Thus the next mroning when u SMS 'em, they cant interpret the attraction any more.
3. So another reason for flakeage is u didnt act in that moment and try to get the girl then and there when u had the -none advantage. They are dissapointed to such an extent as u were making them so aroused, that u rarely get a 2nd chance.

Obviously they were attracted to more than just the Ammo , u must have played a big part to, but i am talking the type of high interest level that can wear off when they r no longer in your presence and not in your pheromone cloud. Thus they wake up the next morning and think “yeah cute guy, nice guy, aint aroused any more”

This is my main issue with Ammo or none type products.

5. Another solution is to go with more memorable, yet also sexual -pheromones. unfortunately, -none bases r 1 night stand fodder. The girl may even resent u the next day. Anything that can arouse like that also can make her feel cheap and slutty because u didnt follow through that night. so,

6. Try Instant Female Magic or A314 mixes as they r more memorable. For some reason, NPA has given me good follow up with girls, as has p83 . p79 similar to -none’s lack of memorability imho]. a good standard is Instant Female Magic/IS/ Instant Openness the “obsession mix”."