that’s your solution? just get confidence. i can take 10 guys anywhere and tell them to go say hi to a beautiful woman and 9 out of 10 won’t have the balls to do it. there are guys like ross jeffries who is pretty damn ugly who knows how to get women and he shares his teachings. it has nothing to do with magic. it works or it doesn’t. you can learn from it and use it and tweak it and make it work for you. if you act like a robot and don’t know how to get away from it then yes you are making your own life more difficult. everybody has a personality though and everybody can improve especially with the help of others.
it’s like hitting a baseball. i can have all the confidence i want but that is not going to to make me a better hitter. if i go out and get a great hitting instructor to instruct me that will help me alot more. if i read a book of his and get some ideas that will help me too.
What’s going to get a more interesting response from a woman, What’s it like when you feel an incredible connection with someone? Or what’s your ideal guy like? Or you can ask her favorite sports teams. I can tell you that 99.99% of the women I’ve talked to don’t give a shit about my NY Football Giants and that doesn’t do anything to get their imagination going. If you are a really great looking guy or have tons of cash or fame or whatever then congrats you got her imagination going without saying much.
I don’t know who Ross Jeffries is but you are saying he is ugly? and is able to get women? then he must have confidence and know how to talk to a women and make her laugh and approach her
you cannot compare it to baseball though…baseball you need skill real skill…you don’t need confidence..there are some people who are born with those natural abilities that God gave to them..and other just will never have those great abilities
Without confidence you will never be able to approach those hotties…how many times do you miss those oppurtunities beucase you are afraid you will be rejected…if you had the guts to approach you have a 50/50 chance of getting a number and date..it that simple..once you approach next step is to get a conversation where it leads to her wanting get to know you better and then you meet again…that is it…just need social skills..you cannot learn this from a book…no book can teach this…
but if she thinks you are a player or learning all this from a book she will spot it a mile away…the real key is being yourself and not acting
you can learn to how to hit a baseball better with the help others than without, especially from an expert. you might not ever become a MLB player but you will still get better.
ross has a ton of stuff to help people get over their shyness or whatever else that is holding them back from approaching women. i’ve seen videos of richard bandler cure people who were extremely afraid of heights and planes and other problems. alot of guys put so much negative mental images in their own minds before they approach any woman that they shoot themselves in the foot before they even say one word. that’s one thing ross will help you correct.
i do not have any problems of approaching women. i’m an outgoing person, and i talk to everybody and their mother, but that doesn’t mean i can’t improve my approach, which i can. i look to improve everything from the way i said, “Hi,” or whatever else.
I also have Barbara and Allan Pease book on body language:
IMHO this book is so much more than just looking into someones eyes. Eye contact like Denec suggested is very important, but there is good eye contact and bad eye contact. Statements like be confident are as valuable as the information that’s provided with it. What is confidence and how do you gain confidence if you are not sure what it is? The thing is you could be very confident about many things but poor body language will suggest otherwise. It’s very important to have knowledge.
In that aspect I completely disagree with Denec about just going out there and getting into the mix, without some type of help. Human psychology is a science, a medical science at that, and as such needs to be studied and understood. I’ve seen many guys just go out there and do it and fail. Not because they didn’t put their best foot forward, yet its because even though it was their best foot, it still was the wrong foot.
If it worked like that, there just wouldn’t be a market for it. To many guys “think” they should just be nice, buy flowers, supplicate, listen, allow boundaries to be broken, and FAIL. Reading a book on social dynamics, human interaction, psychology is not a bad thing.
I do agree that many guys also take it to the other extreme and think things out too much. That’s why I’m an advocate of reading David D’s eBook first. It will teach you what is cocky confidence and why it works. Then find a system that you connect with and follow that one. Don’t become a keyboard jockey, don’t read one, then another, then another, and never follow through with any one. That’s bad. I am an advocate of finding the one and sticking with it. One system that you live and learn. Through success and setbacks.
If it were true to just go out there and do it without any assistance, every man would have done it. There would be zero need for psychology books. Its not the case. Some men need assistance and no one should ever boohoo it.
Getting back to body language another invaluable resource can be found right here on the forum. First we have amazing pheromones that do help with social interactions and again, if you should just get out there and do it, then pheromones would not be needed either. Like books on psychology they are another tool. But like any tool they are not the end all and need to be used accordingly.
it all about practice Steve, practice makes perfect that is why i say approach 20 women a day and you will get better and build your confidence and learn your own style that is how I did it.
btw you can fail for many reasons:
they have a boyfriend
they are not attracted to you or wrong type or had a bad day
your approach just sucks LOL
they are lesbian
or any other reason…
when you fail it only makes you stronger as they say…cant give up
this is important once you get in a relationship and you want the relationship to foster not in the approach and on the first date
I think the bottomline is do not make it too complicated…it is not rocket science until you get into the relationship…the whole point is to get the first date
Body lanugage is importnat but not on the approach and when you are trying to get her number…when I meet a girl on the streets or on the train I am only talking to her for maybe 5-10 minutes max…I either get it or I do not…and then after that all matter if I set something up..and then i follow through
the first date is the most important
now if these books are talking about dating in general and what to do after the first date or how to get her in bed after you are the date..then I was wrong because we can all use the good advice…but i thought we were talking about getting the number and picking chicks up cold
I think that everyone that has posted has a valid point, directly relating to there past experinces. It seems to be squarely divided that those who believe in ‘game’ will be for books that help you better it, and those who believe you don’t need it and can rely on just their charm and looks will be against books on the topic. But i think those courses and books actually are there to help you elevate your social dynamics. Not taking anything away from you Denec, i respect your opinion, and everyone is entiled to there own opinion. But i think that social status and the way people percieve who you are has a lot to do with the way you handle yourself in social situations, and thus gives you your desired outcome. I won’t call it a way of manipulation or making girls belive a pack of lies, because Wether it be in sales, or marketing or business or pick up arts, you will always have competition from other people to make the sale, or close the deal or pick up the hot girl for this example. If these books can give you an edge in the way you handle the situation, then great. I haven’t read any yet, which is why i asked in the first place, but i think confidence and charm comes from all your past influences and previous interactions through your journey in life. Whether good or bad, you will always imprint a preconsived notion of what will happen in the future by what has happened in the past. Some people out there might have had very bad hits with girls, or been the cause of bad break ups due to the way they handled the relationship, or just don’t belive in themselves enough to even approach a girl. If a book can help you to slowly build your self esteem by understanding the ways humans act and re-act in different situations (psychology), and give you some conditioning exercises to allow you to be just as good as those players out there who get all the girls, well i don’t see the harm in that.
Geezz, we are way off topic here. Buuut, while we’re doing this, I should mention that all the politics and new age woo woo has obscured the fact that NLP, and especially the earliest forms of it, did have both strong theoretical research and emperical success in practice that was consistent, repeatable and teachable. The basis of this was a psychotherapist named Milton Erickson, a savant of human interaction, who intuitively created methods of talk and hypnotherapy. He had tremondous sucess with his patients and was very widely respected in his field. Just so happens there there is another thread Master Hypnotist - #45 by OoohYahhh going on right now that touches on this.
David DeAngelo is good stuff. Altough I might lean more toward his “Attraction Is Not a Choice” book. More about a woman’s motivation and less cocky and funny.
The one that has not been mentioned here is Michael Pilinski. He is not a part of the mainstream PUA community but does make a very valuable contribution. His title says it all. “Without Embarassment - The Social Cowards Totally Fearless Seduction System” Really nice insights into men’s and women’s behavior and down to earth, practical, easy ways to relate to women. Especially good with initial approach anxiety. Who doesn’t need help with that? OK, maybe not my man Denec. Dude, I am trying to follow your example on a lot of things. I wear Green Irish Tweed with MX203 and I’m looking for a peruvian yoga instructor, but unlike you, I really need help with this approach anxiety thing. Mike Pilinski is a big help with that.
Which reminds me, I need to go back and brush up on some his techniques. Thank you very gentlemen for adding one more book to my already ridiculous reading list. I’m signing off. I’ve gotta go read a little before my next run.
Just a heads up. There may seem to be some gaps here and there in this thread and there was some off-topic discussions happening. I have removed the posts as they really had no bearing on the original posters topic.
So if you are reading this and you see some off comment about getting off topic, its because those posts have been removed.
It was not because of any other reason than “most” of the removed posts really added no value or merit to this thread. I am not saying they were right or wrong, I’m not saying anyone was bad or good, I’m simply saying they were off topic and as such not fair to the OPs thread. I believe everyone would agree whose posts were removed that they serve no use as the debate was resolved in an amicable way.
If anyone disagrees this thread is not the right place. This is voodooelixer’s thread pertaining to a specific topic and to be fair to him I believe that was the fairest remedy.
Is there a dvd set that has Mystery’s entire classroom? Including all the models, practice, and comentary. Everything I have seen so far is like a greatist hits, and skips all over the place.
There are some of his older seminars on dvd’s, but now it’s a lot more complicated (not to mention expensive) since it’s run by Area 51, his current website I think. One of my friends has some of his older stuff on dvd (it was a whole seminar and was like 4 hours long), but I’m not sure it’s still available.
Wait…really, Steve? That’s so strange, I’m on their mailing list (but don’t usually read them since they’re mostly just advertising to join the site or buy the dvd’s) and Mike Long makes it seem like Mystery is the head guy…is it recently that they split or have they not been working together for a while?
