I know girls tend to over react…but I need some advice.
So one of the boys that wants to date me sent me this on Christmas:
“Hey NAME. Merry Christmas. Listen, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking over break, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I am a poffesional doof. I’ve been so preoccupied by girls who I don’t have the slightest clue about, when the most beautiful, intelligent, and wise young woman is standing right in front of me, who has made her feelings blatently clear to me. I want to let you know that I am very crazy about you. I was just so scared of the stress of a relationship, that I pushed you away. I can’t tell you how sorry I am, and will plead to you to give this fool a chance to be yours. Will you think about it?”
“PS. I have your necklace, I hope you don’t mind me wearing it…”
And I told him I’d already thought about it a lot and that I didn’t want to seem like I was playing games, but I really just needed time.
He replied, “take all the time you need”.
I wanted to talk things over after I got back from break because a lot of what he said doesn’t make sense(and I’m not talking about the spelling errors). It felt like he was making excuses. Other things didn’t make sense… “I am very crazy about you”…I mean…if he was crazy about me then why would other girls take precedence in his mind? And a guy who liked you would at least say hi when he saw you online right?
but anyway it was New Years so at about 12:05 I texted everyone “Happy New Year, guys. I love you all! <3”
I got replies from everyone but him.
It feels like he’s just settling for me because no girl besides me has ever seemed to like him.
I don’t know if I have a right to feel upset…Any advice?
I dont know him so I can only comment on what your telling me. I dont know what his character is like, Is he the player type ? The type of guy who will lie to get what he wants ? Players usually dont show there hand like that though.
Since you know his personality and character more I will answer both ways and you can make the judgement from there.
I dont think he is settling. I think he has come to some realizations. Its not easy for a guy to put his feeling out there then have to wait till you have time to address them. I know he said take all the time you need but if you care him about dont leave him hanging even if your not sure how you feel just yet.
On the other hand if you feel he is the player type then his lack of response just means he has moved on.
He probably feels hurt himself. If is probably thinking if you cared he would have got a more personal message. He doesnt want to be one of the guys he wants to be “The Guy” Its easy to pursue the girl who’s response doesnt really matter. But if he is crazy about you, your response matters and that can be a scary thing to face.
On the other hand if he is playing you he may be using his lack of response as a tool to make you respond.
I know it can be confusing but look at his character and judge it that way. If he is not a player open up to him and dont leave him hanging. Even if you just want to be just friends a friend deserves that much.
Well see he’s played me before. Several times actually which is my fault for believing things were different. He got close to me before and then I found out that he was actually interested in other girls…of which were all lesbians.
He is atheist, video game addict, not sure of his major in the least bit, mannerless, bossy, yet not very aggressive when it comes to taking charge sexually. He’s never really had a girlfriend. Girls aren’t interested in him.
He told me that he basically just wanted to be friends with benefits. We got close again and he kept saying things that made me think he was interested in me this time. And we’d talked about not getting close to people we don’t like…so I thought he’d get it.
A week before christmas we’d gotten close again…and then I asked him where I was status wise for his interests…which he of course said “I haven’t made up my mind entirely” and I said “so that means no” and he said “yes”.
Before leaving, I told him I would have done everything to make him happy.
Ahhh Haaa, well that says a lot about his character then. I think you know the answer. He has a history of doing things like this. Your instinct is telling you to hold back and I think your should go with that instinct. Still dont leave him hanging though. Just tell him the truth. That his past erratic behavior has put a strain on your trust and without trust ya got nothing. Display higher value girl. You deserve better then game players. If you still want to see him do not have sex with him until he proves he is serious enough not to play games.
Also be careful because it sounds to me to like he may be using some PUA techniques on you although he is not real good at it. Its called the push pull method or 101.
I am sure they have other crazy names for it, Basically its showing interest in a girl then withdrawing and not making contact to peak their interest, It actually works, see it got you thinking about him.
He even tried to neg in the beginning of his statement. Negging is sort of like saying something that puts you off kilter. Worked as well because it had you thinking about it the next day.
This puts you off kilter then he hits you with the I am crazy about you.
It sounds like this guy is bad news. Only a guy of very low chracter can play a girl several times, and what you say about him also points in the director of weak character. (Though, why is atheist grouped in with all the bad stuff? People don’t need a god to have a backbone.) Maybe you listed only his dark side though. Are there things you admire about him? Does he do nice things for you? Is he enjoyable company and are you happy after a date with him?
A normal guy who just happens to be succesful with girls can find out what he thought was love is only lust after the deed is done, or he thinks a girl is okay with casual sex, and does not find out she expected love until afterward. That can happen to the best of men. But to actively be recruiting a girl to continuously use her for sex, no. You told a guy like this you would do anything to make him happy. Sorry to have to tell you this but it sounds like he came back to collect a doormat who will bend over backwards to please him.
You need to have a little more self respect. When you respect yourself, and don’t put up with people who are reckless with your feelings, you will be treated better.
Whether you want this man or not, you will be better off letting him know you cannot trust him based on his previous behaviour and you are too valuable to spent time with a man you cannot trust. He can respond in two ways. Either he won’t take the effort and moves onto other flesh. Let him go then. Or he steps up and strives to be a better man. As Tisha said, don’t sleep with him until he proves love.
I was listing descriptive qualities about him. I have nothing against atheists.
He doesn’t do anything that’s worthwhile. I don’t get why I want him.
He’s easily replaceable. Most of the time he makes me feel like crap which I know is a bad sign, but I keep rationalizing that it’s because he’s never had the whole girlfriend experience.
I keep thinking it would be good for me show him how to treat girls and such. I want him to see that other word…something beyond video games.
Thanks.
Isn’t that amazing!? You KNOW you have poop in your hands, but you keep MENTALLY trying to make into something else. I don’t know why that is, but it is. Lots of times, people get so caught up in wanting something/someone to be something that they are just not capable of being. I’ve been in that kind of a relationship, except, I always wanted it to be the last one … the one that lasts forever. Hoping that they’d open their eyes and decided they wanted to be a part of something special. Not!!!
That falls under “WE WANT WHAT WE CAN’T HAVE” and M&M’s “She’s going to realize he has something special, and things will change for the best.” If you look closely, you will find lots of people that argue like hell, and then get married THINKING things will get better. Duhhhhhhhhhhh!
What I’ve learned, personally, is that sooner or later EVERYONE makes the decision when enough is enough, and when your light comes on … there’s nothing he’ll be able to do to change that for ANOTHER CHANCE. Sounds like you need to wash your hands with some antibacteria soap and move on, but … you’ll have to make that decision, and on your time.
Or! You could be a DRAMAHOLIC!
Good luck, and remember … The best things in life … are not things.
NOTE: As for proving love, remember … EVERYONE can act, but no one can act forever!
Atheists tend to have father issues. If a boy cannot identify with his father, he is going to have trouble knowing how to act as a man. He is liable to be wish-washy exactly the way you describe this kid. I expect, Lucid, that if you give him a chance there is a good likelyhood he really will make an effort to prove himself to you, but if he succeeds in getting close to you he will probably just lose interest again. I am not saying he is intentionally playing vicious games, only that he is ambivalent and confused about intimacy and relationships and himself.
You may decide to give him a chance rather than go through life wondering what might have been. There is nothing foolish about that choice, if you go into it sufficiently skeptical and consciously accepting the risk and believing in the rational of wanting to know and learn. If you follow that path, you need to be more consistent in your behavior and clear in your communication. Give him a clean shot at winning your heart or not. If he eventually loses you with his indecisiveness, congratulate yourself for successfully getting the answer you sought. Then move on a wiser and more confident woman. As many iterations as you two have already been through, another loop through this well practiced set of transactions probably won’t take as long as one might think.
Don’t kid yourself by thinking someone will somehow change for you. If they haven’t changed for themselves, they most certainly will not change for you.
Still … lots seem to want to learn the hard way, so all one can really tell you is that it’s your world … you write the law.
Trigger-happy I LOVE YOUs are only words. People say they love someone, and some really THINK they mean it, but COMMON SENSE puts those words under the microscope where nothing can be hidden. When you love something/someone … YOU PROTECT IT. Anything that falls short of protecting is FAKE/GENERIC, and you will NEVER find anything negative in LOVE’S roots. If you do, it tis NOT LUV! IF you are his ONLY way out … then it is what it is til someone or something comes along that really opens his eyes. Still … that may very well be you … at ANOTHER CHANCE 1000.
Maybe he’s one of those that believes that sex is the eye opener. I wouldn’t give him any!
On a humorous note: You can always stop messing with BOYS and find you a MAN.
Oh, I did not mean for her to make an effort for the boy, but on understanding men and the process of seduction and using good advice to avoid getting trampled on.
A good book to read is “The Art of Seduction”, you can raise your awareness about all forms of seduction.
I think it’s the books that have messed up the minds of society when it comes to relationships. Now that you’ve read it … guess what? You PROBABLY have a big/bigger shield up. “Hey! He’s trying whats on page 44 on me! Not!!!” I always thought seduction was suppose to be fun, but now there’s a million books out there; and guess what! People are buying them up like hot cakes. AS THE WORLD TURNS.
The little love notes in his pants pockets or her purse, is no longer romantic, 'cause he/she read about it in a book. Ewwwwwwwww!
Men give flowers for no reason when they’ve cheated or done something wrong. Ewwwwwww! I stop giving flowers for no reason, because of how many times and places I’ve read that. Thank God I switch back to being myself. Mental detox is so very important. Now, if she think it, because she read that, too, it’s something she’ll have to deal with!!
Have any idea on how many relationships don’t take off because someone’s worrying about NOT GETTING TRAMPLED ON? I’d bet lots!!! The possibilities of one being wrong is great once that worry/defensive seed is planted. Nothing lasts through that!
‘Give all of you, or don’t give at all’ is what I say, but that’s just me.
Still … UNDERSTANDING is the most powerful tool one can own. It takes the bite out of SO MANY things that bothers us.
Books don’t mess up relationships anymore than pheros do. We are not lemmings.
When a worthwhile man with the right intentions uses a friendly technique from TAOS on me, I only smile. (TAOS also happens to contain a few painful techniques that one would use on ones boss for example but not on ones love.) Seduction is certainly fun if the both parties are compassionate.
Desire is a natural and beautiful emotion, and allowing someone to stir your desires can be intensely enjoyable, but you need to have awareness of what is going on to decide when to control one’s action and when to fully unleash one’s passions.
Marketing is a form of seduction. If someone used a cool commercial and a nice packaging to sell me a cookie that is tasty with healthy ingredients, it’s all good. I’ll be glad I bought this great cookie and happy to buy it again. If they use it to try tricking me into buying a cookie with HFCS&transfat, I look at the ingredient list, realise it is the marketing that awakened the desire and put the cookie away. Most people do not and eat it and feel regret or even resentment. If the good companies po-po on marketing, most people do not get the best. It is the same way with men and with women. You owe it to yourself to learn about marketing and to take an honest and objective look at the ingredient list. (IE, Look at his character and his actions, search for things to appreciate.)
I do agree that when you are always on the defensive, it does not help to build intimacy. Yet if you are too trusting, you build intimacy with a projection that only exists in the mind. Both states are underlied by assumtions. I try not to make too many assumptions, just keep my eyes and ears open to all the good and bad things someone has to offer. Once I know I’m not casting my pearls before the swine, I can share freely and with trust that they will be treated gently.
Sure they do, Buttlefly. Books, romance novels, soap operas, rap music … all plant seeds. Now, it depends on the mentality of the reader/viewer/listener what happens next. People read things and people see things … then they start thinking they’re missing something, and wallllllah … the pool boy takes on a new meaning!
But you never REALLY know the true intentions, and I’d bet that it depends on how you’re feeling mentally at that moment, if you smile or growl.
Oooooh yeah!!!
That’s my point … you never really know; and while you’re trying to figure it all out, you’re probably not giving your all to the relationship, say? That just doesn’t sound right. Everyone can act, but everyone can’t act forever. I’m so very sure you’ve heard it … “Well, he/she didn’t seem like that type,” “He/she seemed so nice,” “He/she is so sweet! I don’t believe he/she did that!” “That was him/her that did that terrible thing!? No way!” Way!
It’s all a role of the dice, my sweets, and I like playing, but it sure would be nice to play with someone that’s in it for the long hallllllll, too.
Hoping you get from your journey what you’re in search of.
While you are figuring it all out, you are not in a relattionship. Relationships are for people who already love each other, and while you can be infatuated or attracted at first sight, you need to get to know a man to love him. While you are getting to know him, things are open ended, which is also exciting.
There is a time and place for everything, giving your all is great for when you are committed, but is not suitable for a guy you just met. Not only do you put yourself at risk to be hurt, but you are also imposing on him and finally, you are giving your all based on what? He looks good and said something funny? Once you really know a man, what you give is based on real things. If I have been getting to know a man for a while, discovering admirable qualities like self discipline, empathy, intelligence and honesty and noticing how he always treats me fairly and I feel happy when I am with him and also at ease when I’m without him, the attraction naturally grows into a deeper feeling. As you said people cannot keep up an act forever, time will tell what sort of man you are dealing with. Trust is then based on something.
You never know 100%, but you can know 90% and have real trust. When you have real trust you don’t worry wether he’ll be true when you go on holiday or are not ready to sleep with him yet or he goes out with a friend.
People can lie about their intentions, but often, they show through either one’s words or ones actions. Like the guy the OP is dealing with, he told her he wanted to be friends with benefits. Guys who are relationship material and have real feelings for you, do not do that, because they would not risk losing you to be able to sleep with other girls.
If you are single, you are free to do with the pool boy whatever you both want. Would not be for me but to each his own. If you are committed, books are not what makes you stray, just like guns don’t kill people. You can seduce your own husband too and let him seduce you in return and actually strengthen your marriage by bonding another side of yourselves as you add adventure.
The Art of Seduction (Amazon.com) (TAOS) by Robert Greene is definitely in my top five.
For me, somewhere around Chapter 21 it seems to go wrong. I am honestly not sure how. To be exact, the flaw balances on these four sentences, on page 389 in my copy, just past the middle of Chapter 21:
I find no other such choice point in TAOS, nor do I find any corresponding phase in The Mystery Method (Amazon.com), in which Mystery expounds a process, which he insists is linear. Within the Mystery Method (MM), it seems to me that Robert Greene’s TAOS Chapters 20 and 21 (of 24 chapters) would fall somewhere between Mystery’s C1 (“A sense of comfort and rapport develops.”) and C2 (“Both parties feel a vibe that ‘it is on’”) of the nine phase MM sequence. The only similar attitude in MM is much earlier in the process, phase A2 (“The man demonstrates higher value, while simultaneously showing lack of interest in the target”).
Perhaps this omission (of what Greene describes in his Chapters 20 and 21) is why Mystery’s relationships often fail over the longer term, or maybe Robert Greene’s analysis contains superfluous – even dangerous – material, or possibly the longer TAOS sequence is the result of historical accident, the TAOS examples coming from classic literature where more effort/pain was required to overcome rigid sexual mores.
I don’t know about Mystery as I havent read his stuff, but when you use great amounts of distance, it is important to be very enjoyable when you are in contact. When you take a step back, the fantasies of the target must work for you. You can’t control the fantasies when you are gone, so you need to ensure that the only likely scenarios are desirable scenarios. If you just dealt a major blow, undesirable fantasies are likely to occur.
Deep emotional pain only works on specific types of people; the martyr/drama queen who takes delight in complaining about being mistreated and the bad guy who feels guilty and thus wants to be punished or who wants a femme fatale soulmate who makes him bleed. Personally, I am not attracted to these sort of men and I would not want to be the kind of person who does this.
Another thing to consider is that making a person weak and passive and then attemping to awaken active agression is counterproductive.
TOAS is a book mainly for people with a good brain and a lot of patience, it is not a “Get laid today for dummies” book. You need to be honest about what seducer types you are able and willing to play and what victim types you feel attracted to. It gives you all the tools you need, but leaves you responsible for setting your own goals and your own ethical boundaries. You can use this to get married to a compatible man, you can use it to seduce a married woman, you can use it to drive someone you hate to suicide. It is not just about winning someone’s body, it is about breaking into their mind, heart and soul. You need not complete all the phases to get into the pants of an easy girl. It can indeed be dangerous, especially if you fumble with the darker laws. But you can always start with learning to recognize tactics and using a few safe, friendly ones.
Any excessive amount of strategy can be counterproductive, as can a badly timed technique. Distance for example can actually be used in many phases, as long as it is used in a manner appropriate to the phase. It is however, most effective when the target is fully interested and desires to act but feels no sense of urgency.
If you use excessive strategy, it is often a sign of having too few real things to offer. People, especially those who have common sense and are not desperate, will look at you objectively now and then. Like the guy in the OP. As he is not looking for anything to go the distance, it’s not his problem and he can do things shallowly rather than developing his person. You really do need to feel the rythm of the heart to dose things just right, to have good timing and to be able to improvise.
I’ve read The Art of Seduction cover-to-cover four times. I cannot help but feel that somewhere around Chapter 21 there is something missing. Sometimes you need Chapter 20 to stay out of the “friend zone” and build passion, or as Robert Greene puts it, “To heighten the erotic charge, create the excitement of fear.” Sometimes you need the distancing of Chapter 21 to build response potential, a willingness to act. Greene says “the two cannot be combined” and as you put it, Butterfly
and
It seems to me that the results of Chapter 20 (passion) and Chapter 21 (readiness to act) are both required, yet, in Greene’s book, mutually exclusive. One is admonished to choose between the two chapters. I feel there must be something missing, like an entire chapter from that phase of the book, Chapter Twenty-one and a Half, perhaps?
You don’t need to use all the laws to seduce someone successfully. Most of the time, 1-3 laws in each phase, as long as the are the laws that work on this specific target, is enough to complete the stage. In phase 1, you don’t know the person too well, so you often use several laws. You always use Law 1, but 2-5 lead to the same goal: creating both hope and doubt. Then 6-8 all use the space between those two emotions to set the stage for fantasies. So you need at least 3 here. Phase two is all about making you seem more than human, and your bond magical. You can use just one or two laws. Phase 3 is where you dig up the darkest dreams of the target, these can be pleasant or unpleasant, you find different dreams in different people. Just one or two is enough. In the final phase, you always apply law 24. 22 is supportive of either 21 or 23 depending on what role you take.
If your intentions are romantic or sexual, you will already be out of the friends zone when you go from stage one to stage two. Even you have never said anything explicitly romantic or sexual and you havent physically touched at all. Now in that case you would seem to be friends from a distance, but the target has more than just friendly feelings for you.
Often, things come up naturally that have potential to fulfill the stage or at least support it. Maybe you go on holiday to an exotic place, there is 15. Maybe you are somehow off limits to your target, voilà, 18. As long as you can present it in the right dose at the right time, it works.
Way!