Your opinion is valued HotMamma and from that no heated debate can occur. I do disagree that men should be expected to pay.
I have been on a lot of dates that women have expected me to pay without having any interest in me what so ever. That to me is DLV and is just not worthy.
As far as being cheap I just don’t believe you would discount someone on their monetary value. What if the person is an absolute great person, great personality, great everything, except he’s a student and supports his dying mother and works full time to try and make a decent life. Money is tight. You cannot honestly say that person is cheap and not worth your time because he can’t afford to pay for everything? If you lived by your rules though and this person couldn’t afford to pay for the date you would lose out on ever getting to know a great person because you just couldn’t get past the money. Especially since you didn’t take the time to find out about them .
Toil, are these college girls who don’t want their dinner paid for? could be you’re in a particular subculture with its own specific rules (too bad nobody tells the guys what the rules are, lol). I’ve relaxed my own such rules over time and at this stage I’d only insist on paying if I was seriously UNinterested in the guy.
I think in the wider world (in the USA, at least) HotMama is right - paying for the first date is both a courtly gesture and a demonstration of your provider status - it functions like other species’ mating displays. But as Nunya says, do it gracefully, do it as an alpha gesture, as if to question it would never enter your mind. If she objects or remarks, only then make some light comment to the effect of, her turn next time.
Steveo’s advice about avoiding the whole AFC trap of DLV by paying for her time, joking about becoming her househusband and her buying you gifts etc is appropriate when dealing with a certain type of woman … the kind who (for whatever reason) might expect to have the man pay for everything, always. It doesn’t sound like the girls you’re dating are that type, though. Just like with negging, you have to be aware of who you’re talking to, otherwise it can backfire.
Mr. Poor Student could then take her out on one of those fabulous free dates you were just describing to Toil … creativity and resourcefulness are good provider qualities, too
If that person is what you say he is, then perhaps he should take that into consideration when planning where to go. When I was a poor college student I always lived within my means.
You are absolutely right. If the girl wants a free meal instead of a date, that is in poor taste.
Also, if you are a starving student, I would hopefully know that fact, and absolutely not expect you to pay. You don’t even have to have a dying sick mother
I was talking about a principle. I would of course, make exceptions depending on circumstances, as would many, if not most, women. But, in general, a willing and able date should pay, in my opinion. It’s a classy thing to do..
I called her up to change times and confirm plans. She was very happy that I called. I recieved a big HEEEYYYY! HOW ARE YOU!!
She is uber excited for Friday. I kept it a suprise, but I jokingly asked her if she was afraid of heights as to give her a small hint and stir her up a bit.
She has an entire week to wonder, oh what horrible suspence!
It might be the first time, but I am not sure I agree with Carrie. (Speaking as someone who regularly used to treat girls I barely knew to $X00 dates with pretty stochastic results). Steveo is right, and at least in London it has less to do with the kind of girl and a lot to do with the frame. Just by adopting the ‘let me take you out for a dinner, you know like a date’ frame you are snapping into a certain set of mutual expectations. Be aware that that there are other, possibly preferable choices.
Even were your objective to get married within six months to a super mature 30 year old woman-of-the-world, I am pretty sure you would get better results with the Steveo frame vs a dating frame. Too tired to elaborate, but others can no doubt do a better job than me at explaining why.
Ah, this is so funny! I was seriously just talking to a guy friend about this the other day.
The woman going for her purse to pay on a first date is commonly known as the “fake purse grab”. It’s a pathetic attempt for us women to keep our dignity and let the man know that we could pay for ourselves if we wanted to (generally, we don’t want to), and (some women may disagree, but as far as my friends and I go—) it’s an attempt to let the guy know that just because he may buy dinner, that does not guarantee that he is going to get lucky (but let’s not kid ourselves; if he does buy dinner, chances go up.)
To be honest, if I don’t like a guy, I will insist on paying. I wouldn’t want to feel I owed him anything. Other than that, I will always ‘let’ him pay, and yes, when he doesn’t offer, go home and laugh with my girlfriends about the unbelieveably lame date I just had.
But - and I think there has been a hemi-semi generational change here - do people actually go on old-skool dinner dates very often these days? Even outside of the hook-up culture, wouldn’t you rather do something (gallery, shoe-shopping etc) than sit down over dinner with someone you don’t yet know and interview each other ?
I am 100% in agreement. The guy should pay for the first three dates, at least.
Granted, I am rather old-fashioned and would be looking for someone I could connect with enough to be in a monogamous relationship, and steveo is a guy looking for something completely different (tm Python). Therefore, I’d appreciate his directness in establishing that we’d not be compatible, and politely decline.
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