I don’t have any valuable input, but good lord my head hurts now…
Boudicca, you have some strong points. But as far as meeting woman goes into any situation. If a man is not confident, hes gonna lose. Woman don’t respond to pussys. They respond to men who, are confident and know what they want out of life. Confidence is probably one of the biggest factors that effects a womans initial attraction for a man. The way he carry’s himself, the way he walks, how he enters a building, body language, his swagger. Attraction happens on many different levels. You have your sexual attraction that is hard wired into your DNA, Like if a person looks good and they look like they would be for reproducing. Then you have your attraction based on the whole confidence, Alpha male, willing to take control sort of vibe. And you have the security based attraction. The sense and desire that a man can bring home the bacon, protect and ensure your survival. All these different corresponding factors affect how a person perceives another individual and determines whether or a not a person is attractive or not. Some things cannot be taken at face value. A person can be the most attractive person you have ever seen in your life. But if thats all they have going for them the attraction will be short based and will simmer out quickly. For example I like girls that are Intelligent and can hold a decent conversation. Now I am not saying I want a girl who I can talk string theory with or Thermodynamics or anything like that. Just a girl or a woman who can engage in a pleasant conversation without forgetting to breathe.
Basically the rule of success with anything is confidence, whether its being successful at your Job, with woman or at a sport you play. People are attracted to confident people. Take for example Kobe Bryant. He is one Confident mother fucker. I mean look at his life style. He plays for the second best basketball franchise in the NBA. So that is something to take pride in. Why do the Lakers give the ball to Kobe at the End of a Game? Because he is confident in his ability. It does not matter what you do. You can guard him double team him. He cannot be affected, he knows he can make plays. So people dogging on him and hating on him, does not affect him. He has 5 rings and that also is a confidence builder. But he is confident because he know he can get it done. His team mates are attracted to give him control and power because they have confidence in his ability. Kobe leads with a swagger and confidence that only Michael Jordan can touch.
For example: You want a person to work on your car who is so-so and second guesses himself about his abilities or you want the mechanic that knows he is the shit and knows what the fuck hes doing? You cant the confident Mofo.
Confidence breeds success and success breeds confidence. its a infinite loop. You feel good you do good, you do good, you look good. Its a circle it just repeats itself.
So before you approach that woman. Make sure you know who you are. Takes some time to right out your goals for the rest of this year. Make a plan and stick with it. IF a company does not have a mission statement they SOL. You need to have a plan for action and a plan to succeed. Failing to plan is planning to fail. So whether you need to get confidence in yourself from working out and getting in shape or you need to get confidence by looking back at your own person achievements. Do what ever it takes. Because confidence is going to help you my brother in every facet of your life. Work, Woman and dating and just overall health.
@tisha: I’m not a feminist. But I HAVE worked hard to get where I am, beginning way back in school, and I don’t mean college or even high school. I’ll be d@#^ed if I’m going to let someone else have credit for all my hard work.
My husband and I have always had a balanced approach to the relationship. We divide household chores etc. according to who is better at it, or best suited to it, etc. E.g. I have dust allergies, so he dusts and vacuums. He doesn’t “get” sorting clothes, so I do a lot of the laundry. (Except for towels. He uses lotsa towels.) And so forth.
@Jabez: I agree with your notion of confidence - to a point. But I don’t know many women who are looking for someone to just waltz in and “take control.” That has a tendency to backfire in any woman over a certain age. I know it would me, and I’m not even particularly an alpha female.
Mind, I can be alpha if need be. I can and have gone toe to toe with astronauts, who are about as alpha as you can get, and in the end had them come apologize to me for knowing my job better than they thought they did.
(Yes, you read that right, and yes, I wrote exactly what I meant to say. They thought they knew my job better than I did.)
Nor are we necessarily looking for a man to “bring home the bacon.” This is, IMHO, a stupid approach for a woman to take in any event, especially in the modern day, because it leaves her extremely vulnerable in the event something (death, divorce, severe disability) happens to her mate. I watched it happen to both my grandmothers when my grandfathers died, and NOT in old age. It was difficult for them, and were it not for their children, I’m not sure they’d have made it. In point of fact, one grandmother had several suitors and offers of marriage, but she turned them all down. And these were “take charge, bring home the bacon, good catch” men. She wanted her freedom.
For many years, in fact, I was the principal breadwinner in my household - a matter which decidedly disconcerted one car salesman, who refused to talk to me about anything except the lighted visor mirror for applying my makeup, and the convenient cupholders, back seats equipped for children and baby seats, etc. When it came time to talk salaries and payments, and he realized he’d been blowing off the main wage-earner, believe me, he backpedaled HARD. You could see the “Oh $#!^” look on his face.
Not to diss my husband at all. He just happens to be in a field where the raises are slower and smaller than the field I was in. But he’s very good at what he does and he did catch up. As I start over on a new career, the situation has reversed and we are both fine with that.
And I’m glad you didn’t pick Tiger Woods as an example, LMBO.
No offense, but I just think that you are too young to be the kind of authority you think you are on all women.Obviously you have a great deal of knowledge about young women in their late teens and early twenties. However, women don’t stay that age (don’t I wish!) and their preferences change as they mature. So I think if a cougar hit on you, you might have a few problems. And in your case, a cougar is a woman 30 and up, maybe even as low as 25 and up. So guys older than their twenties are not going to need the same advice as a guy around your age.
And my advice to all men: There is a fine line between confident and cocky; one is attractive, one isn’t. Be careful not to cross that line.
Lol I know not to cross the line. I have crossed it and it didn’t really do anything. I don’t wanna sound like an ass. But I know what I want and can do. I do not apologize unless It is a matter of life or death. I do not apologize for what I feel or if I offend a person. I was raises by my dad to be a provider and a man. Sometimes a Jerk and a prick. I was told that the bold will be rewarded and the cowards will be forgotten. And as far as older women go. I am only slighty experienced. I have found that approaching older women in bookstores and cares works well. I find something unusual or put of the ordinary and say what’s the story behind that. Then get a conversation going from there. I am working on getting good at all sorts of environments in meeting woman. But all the stuff I have posted so far is for night clubs. Day approaches are harder by far. But if you can get a girl talking about herself you can win the game.
Too all my bros. Treat women with respect and dignity but do not make them the center of your life or drop what ever you are doing for them unless you are in a relationship. Do not listen over the phone for he talking about her boy friend and her relationship problems. You do not need to listen to that. That is for her gay best friend and her girl friends to do not you bro. Women like men who are masculine and confident. Not a man who is wrapped around her finger. Don’t be afraid to not always do wha she asks you. Say no sometimes.
I wasn’t implying you didnt work hard to get where you are nor did I say someone else should take credit for what you or anyone else has done. I wasn’t really referring to you personally just conversing on a general level.
We do the same thing. I have been married 23 years now. I work and help run our business on top of coaching and he’s the “talent” when it comes to the business so he has more time especially in the winter when he is not racing. He does most the house stuff then. We have never really paid much attention to who makes more money and it varies from year to year anyways.
Snort 
I know just what you mean, people make assumptions. You ever get one of those phone calls with some company trying to sell you something like insurance for your mortgage or something and you tell them “No thank you we are not interested” and they ask to talk to your husband LOL My hubby will let them go through the whole speech again on the phone and then say “I dont know ask my wife” and give the phone back to me just to piss them off. Then I tell them “told you we aren’t interested”.
Well I agree his tips are going to be better for his age range. Women over 35/40 dont really respond to all the techniques the young guys use. Been there done that. We do find it amusing though. I think most of the older guys here dont pay much attention really, they pretty much know how to approach and all that, they just need a little pheromone kick to spice things up.
Tisha
Well Tisha Confidence is for all age groups.
I didnt imply that confidence was not important … Is mercury in retrograde or something ??
Everyone is born with confidence its part of our natural nature. Nothing outside of yourself can create confidence just like nothing outside of yourself can create happiness. Its part of our natural state. If you weren’t born with it you would have never learned to walk and talk. Life experiences and what we perceive those experiences to mean about us are what causes people to lose confidence. You cant teach them to have it nor can you just tell someone to “just be confident”. Only understanding and changing there own programmed thinking and perceptions can do that
Confidence is not what originally breeds success though. Action breeds success, success breeds confidence.
I am not disagreeing with what your saying. Confidence is attractive and helps in all aspects of life but just telling them to “get good with themselves” without telling them how to do that is not going to magically make people confident. If they could just “get good” confidence wouldn’t be a issue. What your trying to convey is a good start though although one statement you made was funny.
Your gonna be moving on a lot. Confidence doesn’t require someone to be submissive to you. Cocky does and there is a fine line between the two of them. Younger women go for the cocky simply because they lack experience and they mistake it for confidence. Once we pass our twenties though we figure out that cocky is just a mask worn to hide your lack of confidence. A confident man doesn’t have to be cocky.
Thats why I mentioned that your advice is fine for your age group.
Oh and one more thing, not that I think you need to or anything because I dont find your posts offensive but I dont know who told you that apologizing makes you less then a man but they have that opposite. I agree with not apologizing for what you feel but confident people apologize if they offend. They dont worry that it will make them “less then” simply because they are confident. Its lack of confidence that makes a person afraid to say I am sorry when its warrented.
Tisha
That was my dad. He said to never be sorry for your personal views, who you are and what you are about. Ik tons of guys who, who when a girl or a woman shit tests them they fall for the bullshit and they apologize. Well fuck that, I for one am not going to compromise who I am or what I am about for anyone. No one is worth that amount of trouble. If a person does not like what I am about they can piss off. Like my dad used to say “If they are not with you and they don’t like you, Fuck em, they are not worth my time then.” See Tisha my dad is the one man that I have I have only truly admired and respected( that I have met).He didn’t take shit from anyone, he didnt apologize unless he accidentally caused lIke property damage. My dad without a doubt was the most Alpha Man person that I have ever known. It was because of him that I am what I am today. He Instilled in me a sense of pride for what I am and who I am. He had 3 basic guidelines he lived by fight for your rights and beliefs, stand up for those who cannot stand up for them selves and never hit or disrespect a woman.(neging and playful little tap on the shoulder don’t count). I cannot tell you how many guys that I knocked to the floor for hitting or disrespecting girls that I know and love( as a sister nothing more). See the only thing I don’t do that my father did was help any person I don’t know without a question asked. My dad was nice to every1 unless they disrespected him or anyone he knew then he just didn’t give a fuck about em. Going into 2003 is when he left this world but those yrs he was alive he impacted and taught me more then school and college can ever do. Only guy I know that could tear a phone book in half and bend a crow bar in two. Hope I didnt get too personal or anything. But that is what I think and feel. So take it in stride. Hate it or love IDC. Time to go to sleep catch Yall on the other side of the day.
I agree with that and thats not what I was referring to. I am glad you see the difference and I think its great your dad was a positive influence on your life and still is a positive role model for you. He sounds like a great man. Men need positive role models and to many dads wimp out on that job. I am sorry for your loss but its great he left such a impression on you at such a young age. Many young men dont realize till later when they grow up and have kids of there own the value of there dads.
I am sure from where he is he can see you and he is very proud. 
Tisha
My first check in with this thread and lol, leave it to me to STIR the pot.
Telling someone to just be themselves is the proverbial poison kitchen if ever I have heard it before. What about a guy who is overweight, painfully so shy that just going out is an accomplishment all its own? He is awkward and the only thing he was ever taught by his family and friends was that women were to be worshiped, honored, and elevated at all times. To be a gentleman at all costs and always be nice. Well, just be himself.
Here it is 33 years later for this guy and he has never had a girlfriend, a female friend, any type of female other than family. If he was to continue to be himself he would continue down the poison kitchen course and get nowhere in life. Week by week this guy, by learning these skills, by learning psychology is becoming a better man.
Now think about this: Why is it OK for a woman to go to school, to strive to be better, to strive to be equals with whomever? To study psychology, to elevate themselves and become a better person? Why is it OK for that woman to wear lipstick, eye shadow, mascara and all those things a man might find pretty? Isn’t that all going to come off to reveal the fakeness of the person bellow? Most movie stars look nothing like themselves on camera. Russel Brand was criticized for tweeting a picture of Katy Perry without makeup. Isn’t that the real person though?
I read things like this all the time and hear them always and the facts are the facts. Regardless if these men are studying what they believe to be “pick up artist” stuff, what they are really doing is studying human psychology. They are making efforts to improve themselves, to become better men and set themselves on even ground with women who for whatever reason society has placed above them value wise, based on looks alone. It is what it is today and even young girls are struggling with their own femininity because they don’t have model looks. Mutilations are all to common now!
If I stayed the course that I was personally on some 6 or 7 year ago, I wouldn’t be here interacting with anyone today. If I didn’t make these improvements to better myself than I wouldn’t be able to help others make those improvements. Too often I read the advice to just be you and I cringe at it. This again brings me back to why go to university? Its because we are on a journey of self-improvement, all of us. We make steps and take actions that are ultimately therefore become who we are. Why read books on positive mental power when we can continue to be us and keep our negative self-doubting and potentially lethal attitudes towards life? Its because in learning we become who we are. In understanding human psychology we enable ourselves, which ultimately enable others around us to grow. It enables the woman in our lives to have a fulfilling relationship with a man who understands himself and others. It gives that person an edge and therefore an opportunity to add value to the world.
Are there men and women who manipulate others using psychology, NLP, hypnosis, pheromones to gain a strategic advantage for less than worthy causes? AD stopped selling IFM for this very reason. Was not Hitler a master orator who possessed an entire nation into committing unspeakable horrors? Will there be men and women who go about and use this knowledge and become fake? How does one become fake anyway? Wouldn’t the lie of the person become the person and therefore the person become the liar? By learning psychology aren’t you simply bettering yourself?
I hardly believe becoming an interesting person, becoming the type of person who has opportunities, the person who has the whole world in their hands is going to come back as fake. Becoming a better person is NEVER a disadvantage!
My advice to every person is to chase your dreams. There is an entire subset of psychology dedicated to PUA stuff now. Mastering these skills will not only allow you to master meeting women, but will enable you to master your reality. The world is an open canvas for the artists of the world to shape and form with the brushstrokes of their imagination. Whatever course in life you chose, embrace it completely, become one with it and use your life to create the world you want to live in. Be who you are and love that completely.
Just wondering why was IFM discontinued?
Dude : http://www.pheromonetalk.com/store-announcements-feedback/instant-female-magic-men-31856-3.html
IFM sounds magical…
I chose other: I wish to hear about your views on kino and/or so called kino escalation.
I cannot do it. I am terrified the girl and/or people around her and me will think of me as a creep or pervert. At least, that is what I think my problem is in regard to this issue. I suspect something went wrong during my upbringing, there was no touch or intimacy ever. I thought about kino this week and realized that if a woman would touch me right out of the blue, it would come as shock to me and I would pull back. Even though I think I would enjoy the touch if I knew it was coming. This is not normal behaviour.
Babies that are never touched can develop serious mental issues later on in life, even die I once heard. Well for an adult it not exactly wonderful either…
Thing with kino bro is to start small and work your way up. In a case like yours it’s not only about building up her comfort, but your own. If you feel nervous about initiating physical contact she’s gonna get that energy off of you and feel nervous too.
It’s like she’s subconsciously thinking that you’re nervous because you want something from her. Nervousness comes from fear and fear comes from an outcome of anticipation (of what makes no difference, pain, death, loss, failure etc.) in the case of Kino the fear is of rejection/failure to seduce, loss of a possible chance at sex etc.
My best advice to you, is practice acclimating yourself to harmless, innocent and platonic touching of women you know and are friends with. Simple things like a hi five, a hand on the shoulder to gently scoot her over as you walk past, a hand on the arm as you lean in to say something you only want her to hear. At first these should be women you have no sexual interest in…you want to just get comfortable making platonic contact and seeing that they aren’t going to scream for a cop when you do.
PAY ATTENTION, if you rest your hand on her shoulder and she seems to shrink away, don’t make an issue of it, just pull back, she’s not comfortable. If you touch her and she touches you back in a similar way, move to something a LITTLE more familiar. It’s ultimately about two things.
1.) be unattached to the outcome, if you’re ok with whether or not things progress to sex, you won’t fear a rejection and thus won’t be nervous when you casually touch her.
2.) be socially intelligent enough to read her body language for signs that she’s either responsive, indifferent or uncomfortable with your touch. A lot of times they may not verbalize their feelings to you, but they will to other people so look at facial expressions, postures movements etc. If she seems comfortable and even accepting progress to the next level.
Don’t skip ahead at the first positive sign though. Touching her shoulder to whisper something in her ear over the music of a club and her responding positively does not mean you can go for a tit grab next. ppppprrrrooooggggreeeessssiiiiioooonnnnn.
Steve,
I hear all you’re saying, and I agree. And in fact I think in my first post I pointed out that, if something needs “fixing,” (not the best word, but I’ve been editing all afternoon and evening and my vocab is DOA) you should take the time to work on it. If your social skills aren’t the best, develop them. If you do need confidence, as I think it was Tisha said, take action.
But don’t act a role. Don’t put up some macho image that isn’t you, just because you think you’ll get laid easier. Unless that’s ALL you want, because IF you’re lucky, that’s ALL you’ll get.
That’s all I was saying. That, and the younger people sometimes think they’re masters of the world and don’t want to hear otherwise, even from those who’ve been there already and gotten the $#!^ beat out of them for their pains.
Bolkie
Rad gave you excellent advice on this, I would like to add something to that if its ok. Each time you do practice casual touching to mentally make a note after that nothing horrible occured. While it doesn’t really matter what your fear is its important to realize that fear is programed into us. A babies natural state is Joy, Confidence and Curiosity. That’s it… Fear is learned. Sure babies startle but thats not fear its a reflex
Here is a example >>> Plus I gotta share it cause its so damn cute LOL
See he is startled but not afraid because even at that age he can read body language. His mom smiles and laughs after blowing her nose so he go’s right back to his natural state. Joy. Now if she got upset or made a big show about him startling by being all concerned emerson would have learned from her body language, maybe not fear of nose blowing but a dislike or fear of loud noises in general. As babies we are like sponges we constantly learn from even the smallest event. If your parents didnt touch you or each other in front of you or even said dont touch to you alot using negative body language while doing it, you learned a behavior. You learned there is something wrong with touching. Its not something they consciously tried to teach you, you just learned from their behavior.
You cant unlearn what you have learned but once you understand that what you have learned is not necessarily the truth but your perception of the truth you can change the outcome of what you learned. Change that perception and the fear disappears.
I would suggest one other thing to do while or preferably before following Rads advice though
I would add some positive daily visualization to what Rad suggested above. You dont have to spend a lot of time, you can do it in the shower. Close your eyes and picture yourself just touching a co-workers hand or shoulder then envision both of you responding in a positive manner. Try to feel the feeling of comfort joy and harmony while you visualize this. If fear pops in just acknowledge it, tell yourself you dont believe in that fear anymore and let it go then continue visualizing. You will notice after a while that fear doesn’t come while you visualize. Your perceptions will begin to change before you even start reaching out and touching people making Rads tips all the easier.
This is all stuff people think is common sense but your behaviour dont come from that part of the brain that logically reasons it works with the right brain where beliefs feelings and perceptions are processed. In visualization your right brain doesn’t know the difference between whats real (outside of us) and whats perceived (inside of us). Visualization really helps make the process of changing your behaviour easier.
Tisha
LOL, that wasn’t really addressed to you other than the just be yourself. Which I totally understand what you were saying and didn’t think that’s what you meant. I just thought I’d throw it out there for my own personal clarification reasons . That’s the beauty of adults having conversations. We can talk out things and come to mutual respect for each other.
Bro I can’t really explain how kino works for me. One minute I am dancing with a girl in the club the next she is sticking her tongue in my mouth and she lifts up my shirt and then we head back to my place or hers. It just happens. Not that hard at least for me, just do what feels natural and right. If a girl keeps licking her lips. Means she’s anticipating a kiss. Also learn palm reading, girls love that stuff man.
DUDE! Please, give me a break! 