Two things (from an actual living breathing woman) gasp
Again with the Age thing. Who are you to just roll up after starting here to, not even been here a month to just walk in and critize?? I offer advice and lady Ik what works and does not my dad raised me on this stuff and his best friend too. The whole point of this thread was to help guys get better with women. I am only offering my experiences and findings through getting rejected before I found out what I was doing wrong. You will say what you want in a guy is that you want him to be funny, nice, smart and treat you right. Well that shit only lands you in the friend zone. Women want confident men, who stand up in what they believe in and not catter to the girls every wim and desire. those guys are boring and are the guys that women tell all their problems too. Guys do not listen to a girl’s problems if you want to be more then friends with her. Once you are in a relationship then support her and be there for her, not before. Women are not to be put into any higher category then men. They are no better or no worse then us men.
Kino, wut?
I’d recommend Neil Strauss’s Rules of the Game to anyone way over anything other material on the subject, least of all this thread. 
I would describe it as a holistic method of “pickup” - becoming more attractive by bettering oneself and learning proper body language and communication skills. Confidence is realized through actualizing realistic life-goals and it is built far more around creating a lifestyle that presents more success and social opportunities than memorizing canned material.
And, seriously? If someone asked you for your number, you’d throw their phone on the ground and stomp on it? That’s a tad overboard, don’t you think?
For kino bro start small. Like Radman said. Like high fives and what not. The place I have found to elevate kino the best is dance. Whether that be in a bar, night club or a good ol American line dance. It is the one place where touching is allowed just because it is. So you build comfort and attraction if you have layed out your ground work right. Shoot me a pm or what not asking specific questions. Sorry famous I am really tired now so this is ok advice once I am awake I will do a better job unless Radman or Tish swing by. But I am out my brother. Gotta get up to drive to KY tomorrow.
guys it’s 2 AM and I apologise for my dumbassery, but whats kino?
Re: Help to the Masses
I’d recommend Neil Strauss’s Rules of the Game to anyone way over anything other material on the subject, least of all this thread. I would describe it as a holistic method of “pickup” - becoming more attractive by bettering oneself and learning proper body language and communication skills. Confidence is realized through actualizing realistic life-goals and it is built far more around creating a lifestyle that presents more success and social opportunities than memorizing canned material.
And, seriously? If someone asked you for your number, you’d throw their phone on the ground and stomp on it? That’s a tad overboard, don’t you think?
Nah bro she was talking about me just handing my phone to the girl for her to put her number in. Not asking for it, just knowing and assuming she knows what to do.
And wait you bashing what we got going here? Because if you can Do better by all means be my guest rookie.
Kino is touching and basically escalating things along sexually with a girl like a hug kiss, etc. And no problem man. Gotta ask questions to learn. No need to apologize for a hunger and desire to better yourself. Nothing wrong with wanting to get better and be a better human Being. But I am going to sleep good night bro.
I’m saying its an excellent primer, and should be basic material for anyone…kind of like reading the material before coming to the study group, y’dig?
Oh ok. My bad. Tired have been up all day doing chores and helping out around the local YMCA. Volunteer work takes a lot of a person.
no really spelling and grammar.
I don’t believe we’ve met? how on earth could YOU possibly know what I want in a man?
Age and maturity are big issues, and you’ve proven as much saying women don’t want men who listen. You’re priceless.
The lament of a “nice guy” is crap and here is why:
Heartless Bitches International - Why “Nice Guys” are often such LOSERS
Admittedly I only skimmed, but what I got from this was, “I’m disagreeing with you because I’m nearly twice your age, but here’s an article saying the exact same thing but with different words.”
He’s explaining the practice, but not the theory. A man shouldn’t cater to a woman’s every beck and call because it is being the “nice” guy described - male or female, its most likely you don’t want to be with someone who’s middle name is “Welcome.”
I don’t have time to debate with you now. This thread is supposed to be for the helping and support of improving men’s social skills and intelligence with ladies and women.not that we can ever fully understand them because they are just so damn confusing, but we can try! Not for a place for people to go ape shit and just get all personal about shit. Unless you have something constructive to say keep the negative comments your self. Lite is to short for me to sit here and waste my time with the likes of you. Oh and about my grammar and spelling it’s 1:27 am here and I am tired so with all due respect fuck off.
Gatsby thank your clarifying that. And that last post was not directed to you
Kino is a phrase that the PUA community sort of coined. Its in relation to Kinesthetics which is the study of body and muscle movement.
Simply Kino is the art of touch to show interest and attraction. Its a form of body language all humans use.
The handshake, the pat on the back etc etc all have meaning without saying anything verbally. Kino in the PUA community is about signaling sexual attraction through touch.
It doesn’t mean inappropriate touch like blatantly grabbing asses and boobs LOL.
Here watch this guy and how he touches when he interacting with girls. He is a bit advanced and I dont suggest walking up and kissing people you dont know like he does but he demonstrates body language and kino very well so you can get a actual visual. Its hard to explain eye contact and body language verbally because you cant see the subtle differences so this should help.
Before the ladies woot and holler, everything these guys teach and have learned comes naturally to women. That’s where they learned it by watching how women seduce men. Watch any 5 year old little girl with her dad and you will see kino, you will see eye contact, you will see body language. You will see her wrap him around her little tiny finger. Of course its not sexual in any way with her father but its where we learned how to seduce and we have seduced men in very much the same fashion as these guys are teaching they are just moving it into a more sexual plain.
I know… I know… I have coached many women who say “I dont do any of that” and then we go out and I see them doing it when they are attracted to someone and point it out and it really opens there eyes. Women instinctually pick up on what men are doing as well on a subconscious level. Its not some mind trick that strips us of free will or logic. If we are not interested we wont go for any of it so there is no need to feel threatened by what they are teaching.
If you take all the crudeness a lot of the PUA followers portray with comments on banging girls and such out, its really the simple art of seduction. The dance we have all danced since the beginning of time just adapted to our current environment.
I know this wont make me popular with most women here but Jabez, despite his age is just conveying what ladies are interested in on a instinctual level. His delivery of the message may be a little rough but he is not telling guys not to listen to women. He is not telling them to disrespect women or go out and bang every women they meet. He is telling men to respect themselves. Wouldn’t you teach your kids the same ? Maybe I am unusual but I taught my boys not to cater to there girlfriends every whim. To be self confident men, to have respect and conviction for there beliefs. Not to be pigs LOL Why is it a problem when men share these lessons with each other ? I dont understand why people feel so threatened by it.
Edit to add >>>>> I think a lot of people misunderstand when a guy says dont be the “Nice Guy” They take it literal. No one is saying dont be nice to people. What they are saying is dont be the proverbial nice guy. The push over, the no back bone guy, the yes man. We have all met them, in my work there are three. They are really nice people, considerate, kind, trustworthy except they have no spine. They wont stand up for themselves or there beliefs in any way. They cave to those around them male or female. Their wives call them 10 times of day and you hear them saying “yes dear, yes dear, I will do it right away dear” Its sad cause these guys are visually attractive and good people but that lack of backbone just turns you right off.
I remember we were having a picnic after work on food drive day like we do every year. All of stay after to celebrate the day. One of these men wanted to stay and he told his wife. She bugged the shit of of him all day then when he stayed she showed up all pissed off. He wasn’t doing anything wrong and didnt have some other plans with his wife. They have no kids and she doesn’t even work. I felt so bad for him he was just miserable and embarrassed. Before she got there we talked and He said she really not that bad she’s just bossy. I told him Bruce its time to get your balls back from her before its to late or your gonna go through this misery for the rest of you life. He said I dont know how. I just told him if you want to stay then tell her no. I went into more detail but to make a long story short… He did it, we were all so proud of him. He was still nice but instead of running to the car he firmly said Shelly your embarrassing yourself, go home and we will talk later. I am staying here for a while and then I will be home. He wasn’t rude mean or anything like that he just put his foot down for once. She hemmed and hawed a bit but he just calmly walked her to her car kissed her and sent her on her way. They are getting along much better now to, he is happy she is happy and pregnant.
Tisha
Exactly Tisha. Thank you for clarifying all the stuff I worded badly and what not
Thank you Tisha, as always you are articulate and unbiased in your opinion and presentations. As I stated before, most of what the pickup community teaches is based not on what women say they want but on what they actually respond to. The techniques that outer game teachers are sharing are not arbitrarily made up. These guys come up with an idea based on prior experiences and theory, then they test it in the field. After a lot of trial and error they go " ok so this this and this all seem to work pretty goo, but this keeps getting me slapped…I guess I know what to add to the curriculum for the next instructional video."
I think some of the resistance is in part due to presentation, as Tisha stated some PUA lingo can seem pretty crass and borderline misogynistic. But I also think that some of the resistance is because the notion that the courting ritual is consistent enough that it can be planned out, studied and consciously controlled to give a fairly predictable outcome destroys the concept of romance and perhaps even makes some women feel they’re being made to seem gullible.
Women want to believe that they were swept off their feet in a spontaneous whirlwind of emotion, not a plan of action designed to actually CREATE attraction.
Women tend to want to believe that they’re so evolved, mature, and socially savvy that “game” would never work on them, that they’re looking for a certain kind of man. They tend to want to believe that when they say “I want a nice guy” or " I want a guy that treats me like (insert whatever here) that it’s actually true because they like the self image it creates (you can tell a lot about a person by their desires). Most of these same women will blame reality for the conflict between what they say they want and what they actually respond to. “Why aren’t there any nice guys in this town?” (see the blame isn’t that they face the contradiction of saying they want a nice guy but actually feel attraction for another type of guy…it’s that the nice guy simply doesn’t exist)
Now I don’t advocate or condone being an jerk, and I don’t follow the Mystery Method to the degree that I would peacock like him. I turn 39 this year and flight goggles, a feather boa and top hat would make me look ridiculous. However the general concepts and the qualities conveyed are pretty damn consistent.
A1 You have to open. Even liberated “modern” women tend to just sit and wait for the man to take the emotional risk of rejection. (apologies to Tish but I do disagree with the common belief that women are more mature than men, Studies have shown that statistically from first eye contact to first intercourse men take most if not all the risks of rejection and the emotional hurt that accompanies it.) So the man has to initiate because with precious few exceptions, it’s too risky for her to do it herself.
A2 create attraction. Most men will communicate their own attraction to the woman first, the problem is it puts a woman in the drivers seat when she doesn’t want to be there and most guys mistakenly think/hope that their own attraction is an attractive quality (if I love her enough she’ll love me back). No, you have to convince her that you have positive and attractive qualities before you show her that you’re attracted to her.
A3 show your own attraction. Once you know she’s at least moderately attracted to you, then you can allow her to feel like she’s attractive to you. If you don’t, she’ll believe that you’re not interested and she’ll dismiss you as a possibility and look elsewhere. You also have to show here that her attractive qualities are not looks oriented. I will ask screening questions in conversation designed to find commonalities, compatibility and simply positive character traits. I reward favorable answers with physical contact and praise. This creates a status dynamic where the perception is I’m not impressed with beauty alone (I’m not) and that I’m special enough that somebody has to earn my attention and affection (which I actually feel is a healthy self belief)
C1-3 Create comfort. different stages because this should occur at various locations over time. Not to be skipped over because without it, if sex occurs you were simply an attractive guy she slept with and maybe feels guilty about, if no sex occurs, she’ll feel relieved that she didn’t sleep with you and will likely not return any calls or texts because you remind her of a part of herself that she doesn’t want to face. The A phase is about creating sexual value, the C phase is about creating relationship value.
S phase, seduction/sex. If you don’t progress here it becomes very hard to get out of what men refer to as friend zone hell. During the C phase, if you have actually built attraction she’s usually waiting for things to progress, if you don’t escalate within a couple of dates, she’ll feel you’re either not interested, or not bold enough to go for what you want, in either case you hold little or no value as a mate but make a great shopping partner.
The path is almost always consistent, the qualities that create attraction are with minor variations from one woman to the next are pretty constant as well. It’s as predictable as a mating ritual watched on a nature documentary…we may be human but we’re still animals and we still respond to instinct and an almost Pavlovian response pattern.
(extends a hand across the aisle to Jabez) Truce?
You DO have some very sound ideas my issue is a 20 yr old touting “vast experience” BUT we want this to be productive 
So, I’ll bite, with the caveat that IF my experience proves otherwise, I will speak up.
Why do I care? Because I get what you’re trying to do and it appeals to me.
Why am I relevant?
So basically, I want to go back to being able to provide positive input in this thread without any of the personal crap attached. Deal?
No need to apologize, I dont expect you to agree with everything I say. I value your opinions and insights.
I remember talking about maturity somewhere on the forum but cant find it. Maybe I worded what I was trying to say wrong. I see with clarity but I cant always convey with it LOL
I dont think women are more mature then men in general. What I mean is women mature faster then men. Not more, but faster. You see it more in the teen years through the early twenties. Once people reach what is considered “full maturity” I dont feel that men are any less mature. For instance I dont think one 30 year old is more mature then another because of gender. It has more to do with life experience.
Of course in some cases even in full adults you will find immature behavior patterns and young adults who are old souls and mature beyond there years but on a whole once we get to a certain age range both male and females maturities level out on the same plain.
I will say that maturity has little to do with having to be the one to take risks or suffer possible emotional hurt except that its a life experience. Who ever did that study is looking from one side of the fence though if they think women are risking nothing. You need to look at the whole picture to see with clarity.
Yes guys do risk rejection and emotional hurt and I am sensitive to that, but women take a huge risk as well when they choose a partner and have intercourse. The risk women take is far more life changing and can effect us on a physical and emotional level and we risk rejection not just from that one guy who suddenly is not that into you anymore but from society as well. You will get a pat on the back, told " your the man " by your peers, praised for your prowess. The girl will suffer the stigma of peoples judgement forever whether its true or not. She’s a slut, she is stupid, she’s to easy and not marrying material. If she gets pregnant employers believe single moms dont make good employees and when they do get hired they make less then married or single girls doing the same job, guys tend to shy away from dating single moms, etc etc… there are hundreds of labels and judgements people put on women who take that risk. Your risking getting your feelings hurt, she is risking far more then that. ( I dont judge women this way just pointing out that many people do)
Sure people have become more open minded about sex and single parenthood but the taboos still exist. People still judge. Mistakes still happen. I think there is risk on both sides of the fence whether your mature enough to face them or not.
Tisha
I think that “be yourself” and “be confident” are definitely problematic advice for people who are just learning how to approach women. I think what it ends up coming down to is that you need to be confident and comfortable enough with who you are that you don’t get nervous when you’re talking to a woman. That also ties in with being “unattached to the outcome” which you see in a lot of PUA stuff.
Jabez, everything you’ve said is definitely solid advice, but I think it’s worth bearing in mind that it’s gonna be less effective or completely ineffective with certain types of women. The cocky approach works on the majority of women you might meet at a club, but every woman is different.
I would totally agree with you that confidence is a key, but I think the meaning of confidence often gets misconstrued when it comes to pick-up. True confidence is just being OK with yourself, and not changing your behavior or overvaluing the opinions of someone you just met minutes ago.
As far as “being yourself” I think that is good advice, when you think about it. I’m a big proponent of PUA literature, psychology, self-improvement etc. all the stuff Steve mentioned earlier. But when you meet someone new, it’s important to forget about all of that. Just stop where you are and let things unfold. That goes back to confidence; having the confidence and presence of mind to not overvalue a single interaction to the point where it changes who you are. I totally agree with what Radman said earlier about developing a lifestyle that makes one attractive to women (I think he used the phrase “being the game”), but it’s always important not to put up a front.
That’s just some of how I’ve come to look at things.