I have an inkling my intuition is right, but opinions can't hurt

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Over the last couple of months I ended up catching some feelings for this person I met.

It started off as nothing and essentially escalated to the point that my friends were asking about if there was any mutual attraction between us. The classic signs were there. I was skeptical cause she’s a bartender, I automatically dismissed any signs of IOI’s and any flirting due to that fact. I previously worked in the industry and by nature, anyone that works I tip generous, always have and always will. This was also a “barrier” or sorts that I had up because of the fact that I did do that.

As time went on, she was cool, whenever my friends and I went we all had a good time and she has that type of personality that you can be around and just smile and have fun. I’m a ball buster by nature and I joke around. I guess it was cause I wasn’t initially attracted to her I was able to really shine with who I was and she got to know me for who I really was. It got to the point where pretty much all my friends were asking if anything was up with us, and I told them the truth, there was really nothing there. One day we were comfortable enough with each other that I friended her on facebook, and we just had conversations here and there, friendly, nothing else. One night we were there and long story short, she ended up putting her number in my phone. She couldn’t find hers and needed to call it. There were plenty of other people there and she coulda asked any of my friends but I was singled out, again I just thought that she was more comfortable with me than everyone else. We kinda connected and that was probably a factor. Again I didn’t look at it from any other standpoint besides being friendly.

As time went on the flirting became more and more pronounced and it got the the point where my friends were wondering why I didn’t ask her to hang out. I finally took the plunge and spoke about it in conversation and she agreed. The problem was anytime we ever made plans she’s always either been sick or overslept. She does work a lot, and I do know how it is to work long hours over and over again. There were also past ex’s coming and making life a bit difficult for her. I decided to back off at that time, cause from past experiences I know no one wants to try to start anything or even get to know someone when things like that are happening. I distanced myself, since we didn’t have set times or set conversations and it worked out in my favor cause it was a busy time for me at work anyway.

A couple of weeks passed and I saw her again, things picked up where they were but I wasn’t really flirting or anything and just having a fun time. She seemed to get a little mad with the change of behavior. I wasn’t trying to ignore her, I was trying not to be that guy who’s up someones ass all the time and I know that can get annoying cause I’ve had that happen to me before. One night I left and she was talking to other customers, I said bye but she didn’t hear me and didn’t really think anything of it. She ended up getting a little upset that I didn’t, I don’t know why cause I see her there 2-3 times a week anyway but I guess it hit a nerve with her. That’s when we started talking more and just texting a bit and the flirting continued, when things got a bit more normal I asked her out again, I told myself if she bails this time I’m not going to pursue this anymore, I’m just going to look desperate after that time. I exhausted all possibilities and that day I called her, she didn’t pick up, she did text me later saying she was sleeping and she didn’t feel well. I can’t argue with that but an epiphany came to me when I was driving my car in this morning. If it hasn’t worked out by now, what makes you think it’s going to work out after all the cancellations.

So I decided to let just naturally drift away and let things come where they may. It’s good that work is takking up a bit of my time so that I really don’t have the time to go out and visit her there. It works out also that she jokingly said I can’t stay away, and challenged me, and I haven’t gone to see her since then. I did see her one day when I came by (my friend works with her) but I just said hello and that was the end of the interaction. She also said I shoulda stayed for a little bit when I was done with my friend, which I told her I had things to do and I only really came cause I wanted to keep my promise to my friend.

I think I gave it enough effort and time to warrant me giving up on this. I probably acted beta in a couple of interactions cause I let her get the better of me from time to time. I let her being able to get me to genuinely smile to influence the decisions I was making even though deep down I knew it wasn’t the right thing to do.

Opinions:

Did I give it enough effort?
My thoughts are I did, without being too pushy.
Am I taking the right approach to this and just letting it drift apart naturally?
Probably the most mature thing to do.
Should I have made more of a definite stance where I wanted us to go?
I didn’t cause where she works, everyone goes to and I didn’t want that awkwardness.

I feel like I made the right decision. I ask because my friends are biased because she saw how much flirting her and I did both in person and online.

Thanks a bunch

2

I’d say you gave enough towards this endeavor. I’m not always one to give a good and deep explanation for my thoughts but simply put, she was yanking you along. Too many flake outs is, at least imo, enough reason to move on. It shows either two things:

A. She’s jerking you around for whatever reason.
B. she’s incapable of keeping to a set time or date. Which if this is the case, then that’s another reason not to pursue. It screams of commitment issues at all levels.

Just my two cents.

3

I don’t think she was yanking me along. I woulda cut it off a lot sooner if I felt that.

I just think that she might have not been ready to where I was going with it. Nothing that serious but just getting to know each other outside of when she’s working.

I’m a pretty decent judge of character and my other friend who is as well mentioned to me there doesn’t seem to be any bad intents on her part.

I appreciate the input, and you putting your two cents in gives me a different perspective on things as well

4

My thoughts prolly wont say much on the matter but after seeing a pattern between your situation, an old situation of mine, and my mothers situation. I realize one thing with this particular type of girl in my views.

A woman like that needs to be firmly lead in a particularly direction. If your mission statement isn’t being maintained and more so implied then it won’t materialize. I believe that forming a closer relationship should be a two way street with a joint effort from both parties.

This girl reminds me of the tango. She may be the best dancer on her feet but unless you coordinate her specifically and fine tune the rhythm the whole thing doesn’t come together. You made her feel comfortable enough to be submissively lithe with you in a progressively closer manner. She became your clay but you had to meticulously cultivate and shape her into something of your own making. This is the only way you would reach completion and fulfillment on both of your ends.

Dude, I SEE IT NOW so easily. My mothers friend had to follow her incessantly like a shadow and couldnt do anything for herself on the trip she was just on. My ex friend whom was the same wanted the girl to do everything in terms of getting his attention and pouncing on him. The girl I had been with wanted me to take control and wasn’t satisfied until I took the driver’s seat completely. Unless you lead these people around with a stern fist and notion in terms of where things are going. Problem is to know how to be assertive when leading them to where you want to go because it has to be what they want too b/c as submissive as they can be they can be stubborn too.

I still think you gave it your best shot and if your motions to have a one on one get together after all this time havent come through then she simply needs someone that is UP her butt all the time which can be seen as annoying or aggressive or both lol. Only do what your willing to do to get the girl without losing any self respect for yourself. Once you feel your going out of your way your simply eating away at your ego at the expense of the chase as well as the girl.

Anyway I dont know what im talking about I just love typing :wink: Carry on :cool:

5

No, you pretty much made sense Olfact, stop doubting yourself lol

6

I felt iffy writing that rofl :smiley: While I think I could have the loveliest relationship with a shy girl I just think about all the crow baring I’m gonna have to do to open her up to me it just doesnt seem worth it. I know some girls are taught to play hard to get and the whole give him a sliver of pie a bit at a time rather than the whole pie which I completely understand but if the girl can’t give me an opportunity to give me an opening to give “us” an opportunity then I just dont see it happening. Im not as bold as other men and I need to feel the utmost comfortable to share the real me with a woman and open her. Sometimes I think women think theres something wrong with a dude when he isnt exuberant and really extroverted. At least thats what I experience at college a good amount of the time.

Why is it we’re taught to go after what we want but when women want a man they will preen, bat eye lashes, smile, and do all sorts of coded body language but so many men like myself are absolutely oblivious to whats going on. I mean I read body language much better than I use to but I still have to analyze the context, see if it is or isnt already a common display she shows anyway, see if I’m reading general kindness from her or some genuine interest in my person even while talking to her. By the time I do that I’m so in my head that Im not even focused on her anymore and the game is over by the time I come to any reasonable conclusion. Anyway I get it. Women’s egos take a hit everytime they show body language to a dude they like or may seem to want to get to know and no materialization comes from the men’s side of things. I have to thank all the women that dont simply sit idly waiting for the man to imply, invoke, and commemorate whats transpiring between them all the time.

I’m venting a little dont mind me :cool:

7

TAF 5mcg, Stat!

8

That right there! :cool:

Now, for more of M to the M’s thoughts.

With the way the world’s going, books on HOW TO TALK TO WOMEN, HOW TO KISS WOMEN, etc. etc. Problem is, people read it, and then they start living their lives by it. When I was growing up, I was told I was an EXCELLENT kisser by lots of girls, and I never held their faces! Helloooooo! Kiss somebody now, and not hold their face, and you’re the sorriest kisser in the world. SOCIETY.

All over the place, I read women saying that the best sex organ is the brain. Well, whoop-dee-doo! Isn’t that how it is for EVERYBODY! Boobs to brain … pushes blood to the dangalang! Helloooooo!

Now, for my closing statement. “”“IF”“” someone is really interested in someone, sleep or no sleep, sick or not sick, 90 pAcent of the people would break their necks to spend time with the other person. There is NO SUCH THING as a 50-50 relationship, but there is when it comes to EFFORT! :wink:

My two cents, and don’t even think about trying to get another cent for a cost of living allowance~ :roll_eyes:

And please, P … do NOT STOP hanging out at your spot … smile, speak and joke with her, and keep on living. When you get home, and lock the door, and close the curtains, you can kick the trash can or something. :stuck_out_tongue:

9

A water with no ice and a tea with ice for the gentleman down the bar please!

I’m not gonna stop, no way.

It’s just not, she called my ass out in front of people, and I’ll have to hand in my man card if I show up at her shift, I don’t care if we were hanging out and dating, I still wouldn’t show unless she budged. I go there anyway, I friends that work there so I just go on those days, I just don’t come on her shift, if worse come to worse, I’ll wait it out till the end of the year. That way I’ll at least save face.

10

The drinks are on point! :smiley:

Do what helps you sleep at night, P. 'Cause in the end, tis you that has to live with you. :wink:

Saving face is overrated! :cool:

Wishing you nuttin, but good luck!

11

P51 I think you are doing the right thing by letting it drift apart. In my past I have always fallen for girls who haven’t had enough time for me, and I never understood it. H (my gf) told me this when we broke up back in June and this really opened my eyes
Don’t make someone a priority when you are only an option and I finally understood what that meant, you might share the same feelings but she isnt obviously willing to put in the same amount as you are and honestly that isnt cool or right and you deserve far better! I had a fling during the summer with an other girl, I seriously fell in love with her by day 2. She was my buddy’s 2nd girl and he gave me full permission to have at her because he obviously had his own gf. So I did, drama happened and my friend and her didnt talk for awhile, well he would wants sexts from her and she would refuse. Anyways she started school and told me time would be tight. Some mad drama happened and my friends gf found out about him cheating on her and he blamed it on me. I havent talked to him in months because he said some hurtful things that I didnt appreciate. Anyways She called me a few days ago saying how my bestfriend misses me and that I should call him. They have been hanging out alot and she left me out. Her feelings were identical to mine back in the summer. This made me realize that she was being dumb, I don’t deserve that from her, I have a awesome loving gf who even though isn’t perfect, she always makes time for me! You did the right thing P51 for sure! Let her regret that awesome man she passed up instead of you regretting the girl. She doesn’t deserve you man! Keep strong!
Tea~

12

Oh for the love of the goddess you guys analyze every situation reading things into them that may not have anything to do with anything. Its a wonder you dont drive yourselves crazy LOL

First things first ((((P51)))), Do you like going to the Bar ? Do you have a good time there ? Did you start going to that bar so you can meet this particular girl ?

My guess is no on that last one but yes for the rest. Do not avoid the bar because she told you that you cant stay away unless you really just dont feel like going. I know you think that if you go during her shift she wins but its the opposite really. Then she controlled your will. If its your will to go to the bar and have fun go for gods sake and if she says something about it neg her.

Girl… “Ahh I told you, you couldnt stay away”

P51…" Why would I stay away, my friends hang out here and I enjoy the company even when your here"

Girl will be thinking… “Even when I’m here” what the hell does that mean.

Say it in a fun teasing tone then turn your ass around and hang with your friends and let her think about it. The text messages will start flying as soon as she is off work.

Is she not friend worthy ? Even if things dont work out she was your friend before you guys talked about dating. If you never date does that mean you must avoid her shift, stop the fun friendship you developed and drift apart. Why ? How does that serve you ? Hey all that flirting can go a long way with … what the hell do we call it ? HV or just showing your in demand. We have a phrase for it we use here but I cant think of it right now.

From reading what you wrote I would say your friendship with this girl has naturally and progressively become deeper. I dont think you came off as Beta at all not that being Beta is a bad thing. Plenty of great women prefer the Beta men. I dont think she was trying to test you or yank you along. Men tease women for attention and women tease men for attention. My intuition tells me there is genuine interest there but your schedules are just a bit off.

Did you set a time and place or say you would call her later about a date ? I can see your thinking if she was supposed to meet you or you were supposed to pick her up and go out that night and she was clear on this but if you didnt have a set plan other then just to call her later then I wouldn’t consider it bailing. My one concern is that she doesn’t feel good a lot. Again I dont think that necessarily has anything to do with you but do you want to get involved with a girl who is sick all the time ? I would just call her out on it if your unsure. Sometimes straight and to the point is the best way. “You seem to be sick a awful lot, If your not interested just say so, and I will make other plans” This shows your not waiting around for her to feel better and will move your interest elsewhere if she doesn’t get with the program. It also shows you care about your friend being sick so much.

I agree it should be a two way street but she has made attempts. She put her number in his phone. She asked him to stay awhile after meeting his friend. She texts back.

C’mere and let me spank you !! LOL You do not shape people into what you want them to be. That’s the best way to cause resentment and end up in divorce if the relationship ever gets that far. You shape the relationship (not the person) to fit both your needs and the persons needs.

While I totally agree with your tango metaphor leading doesn’t mean controlling the situation. It means directing the situation. The leader has to adapt to the flow of his dancer just as she has to adapt to his flow or they will be all off kilter. If he just pushes her around the floor they will just fall flat on there asses.

Why is the sky blue ? Because you were told it was blue and you believed it. Maybe that color up there is not blue at all. Maybe its something else. You choose the color of the sky.

Tisha

13

You know, it always helps to get a female’s perspective on it. You’re right, I do have a lot of fun over there, and I was overthinking it waaaay too much. I was there last night and had a fun awesome time. For the most part most of the girls that work there like us. We’re fun, we have a good time, and we aren’t creepers like most of the guys that come in there.

She is definitely friend worthy. I do like her as a person, she’s someone you can just hang out with and have fun with. Our friendship did progress very well and I’m guessing it’s just that connection that people have sometimes that they connect with. There are plenty of gorgeous girls there that I know and could probably get to know, it’s just my intended purpose there wasn’t for that. It came out of no where how we started to get to know each other more than just a bartender-patron relationship. I was a bartender a while back and I still have friends to this day from meeting them there.

There was no set time and place, I just said I would call her that day. I never looked at it the way you said it and you’re right, there was no definitive plans. She didn’t bail when we set something up.

As for the HV with flirting, I had a friend who was all over me last night. I met her there cause she was there with her boy toy (don’t ask why I didn’t initiate) and the other bartender who works with her saw, some of the girls there saw, and it might have either looked really good for me that a really good looking girl was on me, or that I look like I’m a player who can’t respect boundaries.

If I see her tonight, my friend is having his bday there, then I’ll joke around and keep it light.

Always appreciate the feedback tisha

14

Opinions:

Did I give it enough effort?
Absolutely dude! You obviously tried to make plans and did the whole comfort and flirting stages. If anything it seems like she wants you around more, but doesn’t give ANY effort to meeting up or anything. I know a lot of bartenders and yea the hours are difficult, but unless you’re trying to meet at 10am there shouldn’t be a problem unless she’s just drinking too much ya know? You put yourself out there and showed how you felt and that you had interest without being too pushy and although she didnt turn you down she was certainly not giving enough effort.

Am I taking the right approach to this and just letting it drift apart naturally?
Yea I would keep doing what you’re doing. If she tries to connect with you or go out with you just judge your answer by how you feel or if you want to try it again. If not just let it fade naturally.

Should I have made more of a definite stance where I wanted us to go?

I didn’t cause where she works, everyone goes to and I didn’t want that awkwardness.

I feel like I made the right decision. I ask because my friends are biased because she saw how much flirting her and I did both in person and online.

Yea well flirting is easy and another thing altogether. you were actually putting yourself out there and trying to make something happen, she was flirting, but little else. If anything maybe she just needs time to deal with the ex’s and feel a bit more settled as it kind of sounds like she’s stressed out. Just give it space and explore new territory and she’ll make her own decisions.

hope it helps man, girls are crazy :slight_smile:

15

Helps a lot, thanks Empath.

16

I as a guy, I agree mostly with what Tisha said. She beat me to the punch, as I always like to play devil’s advocate, because as a guy, I don’t want to hear a typical man’s response.

I will add to what she said, that relationships that build on a good solid foundation of friendship are usually the best ones you have. In your case, you have that friendship foundation and it evolved to something more.

I am sure she knows you give high value to people and women around you. Keeping her on her toes is a good thing, you are sending the message that “I am in demand, and have plenty of options”, but at the same time, giving her that “special” attention would assure her that you are not a player. Just don’t go overboard or give her a sleazy player line…lol just something genuine from the heart.

Using the Clay metaphor, when two people are working on the same piece of clay, they will take turns in creating that piece of art, and each will add to it their own artistic and finishing touches. One may be more artistic and visionary than the other, and will be the one who leads the whole thing. Therefore, I think you have to be creative a bit and give her the opportunity to show you how she feels toward you, with some guidance from you.

To me she seems interested, as Trisha said it best, she has made efforts to respond and make it known that she wants you to be around. However, it seems to me that she has some fears or reservations and afraid of being alone with you? Think about it, she is flirty when she is at work, or behind the phone. These are her “safe zones”. But when it comes to meet you, something comes up. Now, I am not saying she is doing this on purpose, but sometimes our subconscious does induce certain “preventive” measures (in her case sleeping or sickness). Remember how we used to get sick and feel tired in the morning when we were in grade school on the day of a test or some major project was due? LOL

Here are some suggestions to make her feel “safe” if that is her fear, and at the same time gives her the chance to get closer. Make it a point to go visit her towards the end of her shift, and invite her to go for coffee or have a drink somewhere else. If she says she is sick, show her you are concerned, and maybe offer to bring her something to help relieve her.

It’s hard following the responses of the others who all gave you good solid advice, so I apologize for rambling, and probably didn’t add any value. LOL

17

No you definitely did.

I really do appreciate the input from all of you, getting perspective from people who have been there before really helps me get my thinking straight.

18

Well she just text me to let her know where I’ll be tonight cause she’ll be out for the first time in a long time on a friday.

We’ll see how this goes

19

Good luck bro!!!

20

Yea dude good luck, let us know how things turn out.