Into the mind of men for a moment?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hello there fellas! Im in a bind about my ex at the moment, and wrote about it in my journal… Astrea suggested I reach out to the men of this forum to get their thoughts, and so here I am :slight_smile: A huge part of my intent with delving into the use of pheromones is to move things forward with my ex. There a lot more detail in my journal if youre interested, but for a rundown of things…

We were together for about 2 years, planning on moving in together and talking marriage, his lead, his idea…no prompting from me but I was thrilled. And then, very suddenly it was over. He needed a break, which turned into our breakup and I was pretty devastated.

Hes in his late 30’s, never married, no kids, child of a messy divorce, and from what I know of his dating history, terrified of commitment. He wanted to remain friends, I did not and was too angry and hurt to even hold a normal conversation with him for about a year. In all this time, he still tried talking to me, seeing me, doing things for me and still always told me that he loved me.

In the past 6 months, Ive warmed back up, we’ve started seeing more of each other, and then now in the past couple months here, we’ve started going back on dates, and for the first time since our breakup, have gone out also with my daughter, and planning some trips together this summer. But, we arent back together.

We havnt had sex, but weve been intimate, we do kiss, hug..thats the extent of it. Its just his personality that its a turn off for me to be cheeky or put the moves on him…he was like that even when we were together though…but he hasnt put any moves on me either…and he hasnt made a move towards us being official in any way.

Hes always telling me how much he loves me, that hes proud of me (Im a single mom, and though I lost my job recently, have been busting butt with my freelance work to keep afloat here) and he has gone out of his way to be there for me and help me in any kind of way he can. Hes very affectionate and sweet towards me, always wanting or trying to do things for me…Basically, he acts like my bf, but without the sex or the title.

Thats a lot of why Im turning to pheromones here, it seems, feels to me that there is something there…and looking for a way to spark or kick start things. Our friends and family think its just a matter of time before we are back together…I dont know what to think though, Im very lost to why he would be the way he is towards me, and how hard hes worked to get to this point where we are talking and I will go out with him again, but then stop short at making things official.

On here from some of the ladies, it doesnt look good for us and Im setting myself up to be hurt again. Im curious to see what the opinions for the guys are on this too, like what would make you behave this way…anything genuine? Something else at play here? What the motivation here could be? Is it a lost cause? I would really appreciate your thoughts!!!

2

Hey OutreDame :slight_smile:
I did read your journal just like I promised and it’s actually kinda weird what your ex is going through.

I’m sure he has his solid reasons for not to be committed in a serious relationship right now since he is in his late 30’s. May be it’s that he would feel like he wouldn’t be able to handle the stress of you and your children? I’m talking financially and/or emotionally. If you think that’s the case, do you think you’re able to explain to him that things are not going to be as bad as he thinks? may be that’s all what you need to address.

May be he moved on and he is seeing a new woman? You know a man in his late 30’s wouldn’t pass by any chance that he gets and you stopped talking to him for a whole year. I actually felt the same when my “ex” and I stopped talking and out of nowhere she was talking back to me and it seriously just didn’t click for me anymore..

Anyway, I would say try not talking to him for a week. If he calls you and checks on you.. I would say meet up and talk to him about making things official and what are the reason behind his decisions? If he doesn’t call you I guess he’s got enough to deal with :confused:

3

You are very brave and to be commended for your willingness to work things through with him.

I think this guy has issues with intimacy that go beyond what pheromones will solve, and you’ll probably get more useful information at some other message board since these issues are not quick fix that cannot be medicated over with a pheromone product.

He might have unresolved issues with intimacy rooted in either abandonment or rejection. I’d ask about his parents. Were they the original parents he was born to? If so, perhaps there is an unresolved intergenerational wound that is being handed down. Like some adult alcoholics have parents who were alcoholics. Or some adult narcissists have parents who were narcissists. Some adults eat to self-medicate. Some drink. Was there abuse in his family at all? It could be sexual, physical, or emotional.

And you mentioned his dating history? He’s terrified of commitment? I think you should try and find out what kinds of girls he was inadvertently attracting into his life. Maybe there is a pattern. The girls he used to attract were similar to the “dysfunctional” family patterns he learned to be comfortable with at an early age.

You want to get to the root of his fear of commitment and face the pain from inside his soul head on. It will be painful for him to do this, since he is in his late 30’s and presumably still acting out on old coping mechanisms.

Those coping mechanisms are not his true self though. They are outdated remnants of his false self. I think that’s why you said, “it feels to me that there is something there”. It’s possible that you see the potential based from a psychologically functional and healthy adult and he can’t experience that same faith because he is still operating out of old outdated coping mechanisms that are emotional in nature. His distancing is probably a REACTIVE based coping mechanism to avoid pain. It’s probably emotional in nature, learned at an early age, and thus no longer valid.

He needs to respond like an adult and get to the root of what events in his life generated those coping mechanisms (by looking into his childhood with his family, by looking at his past dating partners). Maybe there you will discover truly grounded hope–if he is willing to help himself.

Just my two cents and good luck to you :slight_smile:

4

I’m gonna side with creditech on this one…mainly because it resonates with me personally.
I have intimacy issues, I’ve known this for quite sometime and I’m dealing with them.
When someone gets close I push them away. I find reasons to instigate an argument and I run…but I’ve spent a lot of time working on that part of me, so right now I may start to run, but I don’t. This has caused me to be confused at times when I am working on something in terms of a relationship. I am trying to figure out if I am running or if this person is truly toxic to me and I need to run for reals…LOL.

There was some kind of rejection in his life that caused this. More than likely something with his mother, but it could be from anywhere. It was such a traumatic event that it still affects him to this day.
Mine…I was a mama’s boy til 9. My mother took me everywhere, I was her favorite etc. Then she left my dad, and essentially left me. She threatened to take her own life on numerous occasions, and she often told me she wanted me to hear it or see it. When she finally did take her own life in 2003, you can imagine that left as Chris Farley would say…“a mark.”

I attract a version of my mother more often than not when I’m dating. Its scary how similar they are, and the result is the same in a lot of these cases. A woman emotionally vacant, so I keep going after them because that is what I’m trying to “win,” and prove my worthiness.

Sorry if it sounds like I’m derailing onto my own issues. I’m just trying to illustrate how deeply this could go, and I don’t know what will fix it with this guy. Maybe counseling, and then even couples counseling.

The question I want to throw back to you is, why are you attracting such a man into your life? And why is he attracting women like you into his?
Sorry, I’m not trying to sound accusatory. What I am trying to say is, there’s a reason he came back to you. There’s an ending to a story he’s trying to write. It may not be a pretty ending, a fairy tale ending if you will. You guys may have business to finish up that you didn’t get to the first time around so you can make a clean break. Or maybe its because you two will get together, I don’t know.

How much hurt are you willing to go through? How many wasted days and nights alone, confused and angry because your heart and head are tied up into someone who can’t give you what it is you want, need and desire?
I’ve been there. I wasted almost two years on one person…“waiting.” Because they asked. During that period I got hurt like nobodies business, often…too fucking often. And in turn, because I would grow resentful, I would hurt her back…often…too fucking often.

These are hard questions to answer. I have found in the end what the answer always is…options.
If you’re not out dating others, start. Take up a hobby, pursue goals and your passions. Once you start filling your life with your own happiness, you may find that you really don’t “need” that one particular person. I found out I didn’t need her.

This man, like all others that we meet on our path came to teach you a lesson. Learn it, then move forward, otherwise you will continue to meet the same guy over and over.

Good luck…I’ll be sending positive thoughts your way.

5

Dude, that is devastating. My heart truly feels for you. And your honesty is inspiring. Science has now proven that throughout infancy and childhood, the associations you become accustomed to get neurologically imprinted into your physiology and brain at a cellular level. During infancy and youth, Pavlovian Conditioning isn’t just learned on a mental level. It gets registered on a cellular level because your body and brain are still growing. Add in that infants and youth are largely intuitive and emotional creatures. They don’t have the benefit of a sophisticated rationally objective response system to life’s adversities. Sadly, when adversity occurs, they are often left to their own devices because the parents are either emotionally or physically absent.

In my case, I was adopted. Abandoned under a cloak of secrecy by my birth mother to foster care for 2 years. Abandoned by foster care to my adopted grandmother for 6 months. Abandoned up my adopted grandmother to my adopted parents at 2 years 9 months.

Therefore, I used to struggle with abandonment issues big time. Emotionally, love used to mean that person would abandon me like the 3 major women in my life did before I was 3 years old. With a lot of self help, I’ve been able to work through this more though – and don’t push girls away or distance myself. But the temptation to emotionally REACT instead of RESPOND like an adult is still there.

I also have core identity issues. I don’t know my genetic ancestry, my lineage, so there is no sense of biological continuity in my life. I didn’t have family members to mirror back to me genetic similarities. Couldn’t look at anyone and say, I have his eyes, her hands, her mannerisms. Survival to me as a child was based purely out of nurture (nature vs nurture) and in terms of relationships, means I struggle with boundaries. I got so good at pleasing my adoptive parents because I didn’t want them to abandon me, I wound up ignoring my own inner desires. While I’m aware of these challenges now, I have to be alert to setting healthy boundaries in relationships now.

So staying on topic, these issues we face in childhood from within our families most definitely affect how we behave as adults in our relationships. The fact that the associations and experiences get imprinted at a cellular level means that often times, these outdated coping mechanisms are still controlling our adult lives. In my case, it’d be that 3 year old boy controlling my adult destiny. NOT something that is very attractive at all! :slight_smile:

6

Comin atcha from the perspective of the third party in this scenario…your kid.
My mom was a single mother, did the best she could to handle me by herself and I’ll always be grateful. Thing is, I saw a lot of men come and go in her life. Usually the going part was after they finally met me and the concept of “instant family” became a little too real for them. I remember a lot of nights hearing my mom cry in her room because another boyfriend broke up with her.

Kids are smarter than a lot of people give them credit for and I knew deep down the men were leaving because of me, and in a childs simple logic I figured my being around was causing my mom pain…so I ran away from home. Obviously I was eventually found and things worked out over time but you’d be surprised at how self sacrificing a child can be if they think their very existence is causing pain for the most important person in their world.

The point of all of this…he needs to man the fuck up and stop being a wishy washy weakling that can’t make up his mind what he wants from life. Even if he doesn’t leave again, his indecisiveness indicates a weakness that while there may very well be a tragic story behind it…it’s not your problem and it sure as shit ain’t your kids problem. Until he grows a pair he’s no good to either of you and seeing him always with one foot pointed at the door and you in pain because of it will only risk helping your child to grow up with abandonment issues of their own.
His problems are exactly that, HIS. Maybe once he works them out he’ll be a whole person that can be a good husband and father, but do you want you child to grow attached to a father figure that might wake up tomorrow and decide he needs some time for himself?

7

As with mones and mixes, we can ONLY give you our opinions, and more than often, they are WRONG. :o

My view on LOVE … it rocks!

Sounds like there’s some serious DAMAGE going on. ‘How can you NOT wanna bite the one you love?’ is how I see it. :roll_eyes:

The mind is a very tricky creature. It will make things appear the way you WANT them to appear. Only to find that you’ve tricked yourself. From reading your post, you already KNOW you’re in the wrong place, but wanting things to be the way you’re WANTING things to be … you keep trying.

I always say, DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY. If you wanna give mones a try, with hopes that it will stir up the naughty beast in this fella, hoping it will change things, and he’ll become the man in the relationship, you want him to be … GO FOR IT! Something else I always say, ‘There comes a time in everybody’s life when enough becomes enough.’

Good luck; and I hope it turns out with you smiling from cheek-to-cheek … 4eva! :wink:

8

Thank you SO much! All of you said things that hit so very close to home, and your personal stories helped a lot too…I really appreciate you sharing because I know things like this, with our past and childhool are not easy to talk about and face.

@PheroJack: I know that what he had with my daughter and I as a family meant the world to him and he still refers to us as the fam. He was very worried about how my daughter felt about not being able to see him, as if shes his and he and I divorced. It was not intentional on my part, but he was very hurt but its not like he can pick and choose what parts of the relationship hed like to hold onto, the “dad” role came, and also went with the “boyfriend” role.

I do know that hes dated and was with someone, but the thing is..I didnt start talking to him again out of the blue…he never stopped trying to talk to me…And now that we have been talking and going out, he’s acting like we did when we first dated like hes trying to win me over. Even then though, I wasnt giving in to his sexual advances til I knew there was something there. This time, its like everything except hes not even trying with sex or with solidifying a relationship.

He’s been initiating all the contact with me so far, and I know if I go silent and even two days go by not hearing from me he will be at ends. But yeah, I do think I need to be blunt and put it on the table by asking him what his intentions are and and to make a decision to us being official or not.

@Creditech: You are totally on point with his issues. His parents divorce was about 5 years of nothing less than torture for him and the other kids. And even to this day like 20+ years later, his mom, step-mom and dad are still at war with each other. And yes, the women hes dated have all had issues very close to that of both his mom and step-mom. Even the girl he had started dating after me is all kinds of messed up, much like the girls he dated before me (financial issues, anger issues, substance abuse issues, cheating on him, stright up crazy acting, etc etc)

I was so insulted that after years of telling me how proud he was of me, what a breathe of fresh air I was and etc, that he went on to be with the same type that made his life miserable. But…hes used to being miserable and I get the feeling, thats what hes comfortable with cause thats what he sort of expects and knows how to deal with. I was the odd one out…

@Thegentleman: Omg that really is devestating! I cant even imagine…have you been to counseling or anything to cope with that? Or have someone to talk to to help get through it?

For your throwback question, I have my issues too…and unfortunately they sort of compliment his. My sister who has heard everything from day one to now has told me, I dont know what kid of hold that guy has on you. And his family has told me the same, that I have some kind of hold on him too. My father died when I was 2, my mother took it out on me and would flat out say she she wishes I wasnt born, and just…didnt feel like being my mom anymore and I ended up with my sister who finished raising me. Ive been in two other long term relationships, and in both, they…just didnt feel like it anymore. still said they loved me, that I did nothing wrong and that I was a wonderful wife/gf, they just didnt feel like it. In a lot of ways, I think I attract guys who are going to leave me…the commitment phobes.

From what I can tell, Im the very first of my kind hes ever dated…I dont have any of the issues that the women hes been with have had, but crazily enough, I think thats what worked against me…I didnt have enough issues! Ive been told that I represent to him what he thinks is an ideal life, an ideal family, an ideal wife/gf…but its too surreal for him, to be with someone who isnt one problem after another and that there has to be some catch. Like on some level, he doesnt trust it, and its not the real deal.

And yeah, I do see and realize it…until, unless he gets past his issues, this will just be a circle, of him wanting something with me, but at the same time not trusting it and wanting to back away. I really do see your logic here, he may just be playing something out in his mind and with me to resolve something, and then once he does, if he does, then move on to a fresh start with someone else. As you can see, I have my own issues to work through too.

@Radman: Ive trid to be really careful with who I let into kiddos life, into my own actually as well. Shes only met 3 guys…my ex husband, the guy we lived with for 5 years, and this guy. My one off random dates and such shes never met…Ive really tried my best to protect her from seeing guys come and go all the time, but not sure its any better that guys who have been a solid part of our lives have gone anyway.

With my ex-husband, she was 4 then and did blame herself for the divorce, that was really what made me make the decision to be very careful with who I let into our lives. thankfully, with both of my ex-bfs…they were very clear with her and me that she was not a part of why they left, and both of them still wanted to be a part of her life even after things were over between us.

Still, like I said earlier, he cant pick and choose that he wants the family and to be a “dad” but not want the relatiosnhip or to be “the man in my life”. This really is all or none, I deserve more than that and she does too.

@M&M: You really made me smile lol Ooh, I think I am playing with a bit of fire here, trying to stir up the naughty beast in him as you put it…lol! I will admit it…the sex between us was always amaaaazing! That woudl make me super happy, for the short term anyway sigh

All in all, Ive gotta say, I really do love and care about him. I would love it for us to be back together, but at the same time, a lot of that is the confusing signals hes sending me…treating me like the gf, stirring up the same feelings and emottions I have for him, but then falling short of making things official. But while the heart is all a go go, the head is hesistant and needs clarification one way or another.

And Im prepared for it, that if we never do end up back together, its not like I want to banish him from my life and forget about him…he means more to me than that, not speaking romantically, just as a person, and who he is to me…he genuinely matters to me, and from the things he has done for me even since our breakup, Im sure I matter to him too. But yeah, him being conflicted isnt doing me any good. One way or another, with or without him, Im going to seek a solid loving relationship because that is what I want for myself.

Sorry this was all so long!!! Idid want to address all of you though, cause I really appreciate the thought you put in and how much you all shared. And you’ve all given me a lot to think about, and to put things into perspective more. Thank you!!!