Mones for working the ex - an Alpha Female

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hi all,
It’s just occurred to me recently that some pheromone advice for working over an Alpha Female may be rather handy, so does anyone have any opinions? I’m 25, she’s 26.

Woman in question is very sexual, though always on the pill, so not entirely responsive to NONE. We’re friends, and work together at the moment. She’s very bubbly, loud, likes to lead, though is somewhat very insecure deep down, and she really loves the losers. Tells me I could get anyone I want, and she isn’t good enough. She thinks she deserves the crud. I’m sure this is ringing a lot of guy’s bells… you know the type. Get to know her though, and it’s just not her looks that are amazing. Underneath there’s an amazingly awesome woman.

Me, I’m MR nice guy. I’m confident, reserved, always around to help, though am not overly cocky and don’t have much of an ego. She entrusts me with a lot of personal information and at one point, she had no qualms telling me I was easily the best guy she had ever been with. Sex… looks… the way I treated her… you name it. Since she dates asshats, no-one has or will come close. I witness this firsthand, as does many others. She has said at times, I can be intimidating or I make her nervous. Which I find interesting as I am very laid back and we often relaxed a lot. Something she rarely does with her busy ‘own boss’ schedule.

I’ve hit her with the works so far. Your AMMO’s and Shines and IH’s etc. TUTH. Not much has gotten blatant hits. So considering her Alpha mentality, I’m thinking of upping the ante.

Instant Jerk, with just a hit of Shine or IO.

I have also considered IG, though she didn’t respond too well to A314, so I’m guessing the masculine and dependable vibe I already have, is enough in that department.

What is my best method of approach here? Do I OUT-Alpha her? To make her submissive to me? Or try to make myself not so nice in an irresistible kind of way? I suppose my main aim here is trying to escape the friendship or workship zone.

2

Hi, I’m just trying to understand, if she has such hi opinions of you, picking her up should be easy no?

However I’d give A1 and p83 a go, there’s plenty of post about the two molecules here on the forum if you do a search, A1 is particularly good for picking up alpha women IME.

3

Hi NewBeeri,

Take my advice with a pinch of salt (you only have read my journal to know what a pickle I get myself into every day :smiley:)

It sounds to me like you are in the freindzone.

maybe time to turn bad boy. If she’s not that responsive to ENONE then maybe try P75

4

I’m actually wondering if this is a backhanded way of telling him to go and pick-up anyone but her? Not that I’ve heard this one a few times before, oh no!

However, if BewBeeri is going to rise to the challenge, I’m thinking on two approaches:

MX297/none - TUTH probably. And P83 would be useful here. As might P75 as a none complement/alternative. Not alpha at all but hell of a good time/sexy vibe that can make all sorts of women throw caution to the wind and IME, MX297 is superb around women who have issues with alphaness or can be cowed by it.

A314/IJ - For that Alpha that means it vibe. And P83 and A1 could be very useful in this mix. I’ve found the rather devastating effects an A314/P83/NPA and A314/IJ/P83 combo has had on my ex before and she displayed some similar qualities. :wink:

5

It’s not that I think he should pick up someone else, its just that he seems to tick all her boxes so why would’ nt she want him, the whole your to good for me thing sounds like a polite way of saying I’m not interested, I could be wrong though, good luck to the guy.

6

It’s definitely a friendzone situation and it’s not the fact that she isn’t so much into me, which I know she is, it’s more that it’s just easier to keep me where I am, while I still give her what I do (help etc) than dealing with the full emotions at hand. Picking her up is extremely easy. I have always been able to say probably no more than 6 or 7 words to her that would turn her on so much it will make her need to change her underwear. But I’m respectful enough not to push the point until I know things aren’t going to be regretted. Which may even be my problem in a way. And she isn’t waiting for me to make the move. But she’s one of those women who has no idea what she wants, which can really f@#k with a guy’s mind. Especially considering she is three things.
An Alpha.
Quite insecure/low self esteem.
And puts others ahead of herself. Every. single. time.

Her last boyfriend cheated on her with two women at a time, and it really quite messed her up. You can understand the apprehension when a nice guy like me comes along that could actually care for and be entrusted to her heart. And I think that scares the shit out of her. I’ve never met someone so intriguing, maybe that’s why I can’t let this go… I dunno. But she’s definitely worth it. A shot, at least.

Thanks btw, guys!

7

You are her girlfriend bud. I hate to be that guy to say it, but I will.

She tells you all her dirty little secrets, has a fun time with you, shares personal information, and BAM! You confess your love. She gets freaked out and never talks to you again. I have done it, it sucks Mones will not fix this.

Women do not chose who they are attracted to. You may be the perfect fit logically, but she feels nothing.

You need to get out of the friend zone. It is often impossible. This is the only way I have ever seen it done or done it myself.

Step one, be distant and cold for a while.
Step two, Be social and have fun with other people who she knows (Other coworkers) so word gets back to her, dating another gal helps as well.
Step three, ask her to go out on a date or to relax over a drink.
Step 4, flirt as soon as you see her.
Step 5, make the flirting sexual/sexual flirting so she knows you mean business

After this, you swing. You hit or miss. But it is how you get out of the friend zone. The distance and seeing other people puts you in a higher light and makes her miss you. The flirting makes her feel attracted.

The mones help smooth this all out. A1 and P83 as THE GHOST suggested are attractants and space removers in a sexual manor. Once you slkeep with her you are no longer ‘just’ friends. Remember this.

The better answer, as Mobocaster gave some gems as well) is dependent on the type of guy she likes. Is he cocky, confident, Alpha and touchy? I would go with A314, A1 and P83.

If he is a fun, sexy and confident guy I would go with MX297, P75 or TuTH and P83.

Become the man she is attracted to sexually, let your ideal self shine as your personality, and she is yours. She does not need to love you to feel attraction for you, but she does need to feel attraction to love you.

You can win her over. It is going to be a lot of work, and can ruin the friendship. The real question is, will this be worth it?

8

Yes, it is. You will never know unless you try.

9

Did I miss something? The title reads that she’s his EX. IF that’s the case, UNLESS he did something really stupid, IH should be a big help in knowing the UNKNOWNs. To be, or not to be. That be the question. :roll_eyes:

IF that’s not the case, yup, sounds like YOU COULD HAVE ANYONE HE WANTS, and I’M NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU, could be the hint of the week. UNLESS!!! She was digging for info on such a thought. AS THE WORLD TURNS.

10

It’s such a confusing situation because, we have slept together as friends. I made that move and succeeded, closed that deal out a few months ago, and then things got distant again. And the sex was nothing short of A M A Z I N G. This is a woman who will BEG me for sex, even when she has a massive migrainesque headache, because she enjoys it that much. But then again, sex isn’t EVERYthing in a relationship between two people.

The man she is sexually attracted to IS me, in every way, but also the man she never thinks she can never fully have (low self esteem and being dumped on by that type of guy before). She’s even said such to me, before. So on an emotional level, it’s easier to go for the jerks (and I’m talking jerks. Fat, rude, arrogant, childish, selfish. Pathetic attempts of men) because she makes herself the prize instead of vice versa. Gawd damn, I always seem to go for the damaged women!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

I definitely think playing off her alpha mentality is key here. I know she thinks I’m trustworthy, attractive, supportive etc. There are few socials that give little gain as the connection is there. But I think busting out the ‘I’m not Mr Nice Guy all the time, and you better recognise and respect that’ is the way to go. I would love to give the A314 a few more goes too, but I hate the smell. Very peeish. Appreciate all the help and replies too btw :slight_smile:

11

Woah, pump the brakes! This isnt an ex who put you into the friend zone, its a sex buddy who will still put out but does not want a relationship! Different ball game then.

She thinks you are too high quality for her. Low self esteem plus a great looking gal gives her instant validation from men, but they either struggle to get close or they are the wrong type of guy and use her.

I think this is going on. I have only seldom seen in occur. She is so low self esteem that she thinks you are too good for her. She goes out and states it. By doing that she is rationalizing that she does not like you because you do not like her. It makes no sense, but its is how most women protect themselves and disqualify men.

By Not pulling the trigger and pushing the sexuality she gets a blow to her fragile self esteem. With you, only your opinion matters, you are higher value, Although in other environments she gets attention and validation, it is gone when she is solo with you and she needs that attention,

It is a cat and mouse game, which gets her hot. It is only fun when you do niot get the prize, But you hold out for so long, she tries to rationalize you two cant work out.

It does not sound like a crush effect, or high status would work. I would go with IH for solid and deep communication and P83. This is as much for self effects as on her. I would personally use P75 under my nose to bring out the primal instincts inside, so you will pull the trigger.

She wants yoiu, you need to strike when the iron is hot. Yu cant go to her and say you love her as it will freak her out, but you can become intimate and solidify is as a relationship. A relationship based on sex is easier to segue into a normal relationship than a friendship.

12

She may be a gutsy, in your face woman and great in a whole lot of ways but this says a lot of things to me and not one of them are Alpha!

However, most are glaring red flags and screaming alarms. There could be some serious, much deeper issues here and you are only getting to see her version and the very tip of the iceberg so yes, I fear she might be very damaged indeed.

By all means go for the odd good time if you want but protect yourself carefully and do not develop any kind of serious emotional connection to this woman because I’d say it will be a near certainty that whenever you start to get somewhere stable with her, she will kick-back at you in the hardest way she can. The thing she very likely fears the most is getting what she really wants and then having to actually deal with it. There is a reason she always goes for those guys and its not just low self-esteem. I’d reckon that control and the very extreme and dissonant feelings thay cause in her are just two aspects of this.

13

Her self esteem is just fine.

Mr nice guy doesnt do it for Alpha women. You either need a man that can out dominant her which your not doing or a man who is basically an ass hat because even though they are jerks they are domineering. So while you can easily feed her sexual needs your not cutting it when it comes to natural alphas need for challange.

See… a male with the higher Alpha dominant perosnality gives her something to strive for, he’s a challange and high alphas can be a-holes to. Take my husband for instance LOL

With the dominate ass hat men she again has something to strive for. She can express her own dominating qualities easily on these guys. They still have a dominant quality.

With Mr Nice guy your sort of stuck in limbo. Its like playing tennis with someone whose skill is exactly the same as yours. The balls just go back and forth forever and ever and ever. No challenge and it gets boring. You dont feel anything.

I would say her self esteem is fully in tact and she knows herself quite well. I am sorry I am not encouraging people to be assholes. Its just that I am an Alpha personality and nice guys tend to bore the life out of me.

Channel your inner asshole … snort :wink:

Tisha

14

So shall we agree on IJ/A314 then?

Thats what I use when I feel like letting my inner bastard out to play! :smiley:

15

Wicked replies guys, and well noted! :smiley: KIMBA I think you’ve pretty much got it down. I think, she genuinely feels, as if I SHOULD NOT like her. She doesn’t feel worthy.

Believe me though guys, the Alpha qualities are definitely there. There’s just a whole lot of other ones going on too.

“The thing she very likely fears the most is getting what she really wants and then having to actually deal with it”

And this is spot on too. We once spoke about everything that she likes and wants in a man etc. And the answer came back as me. And eventually worked into the understanding that it was too good to be true, especially considering as no one was ever as understanding as me.
She’s definitely damaged. Ain’t no doubt. But not beyond repair. Least I don’t think. I’ve put a little distance between us for the short term moment. Then I’m going to hit the Jerk. :stuck_out_tongue:

16

Btw guys… so what am I hitting up in my Instant Jerk mix?

IJ with IO to buffer (don’t seem to want the beta of IH?)
IJ and 314 (too strong?)
IJ and IG?
IJ and Shine, and/or IO?
IJ and Ammo?

I really want to try to go completely naked with just IJ but I think I need somewhat of a buffer, just to be sure. IO on chest, IJ on neck and Shine in hair is what I had most been set on.

I’m not sure why I’m thinking it… but somehow I think if IJ still had copulins it would be more effective on her. Perhaps just because she was literally head over heels for a guy who was sleeping with two other women at the same time as her. Or perhaps just because I’ve somewhat lost the plot.

17

I’d go with IH and IJ and then I’d be brutally honest with her and you “yell” at her like an asshole would and you tell her you’re not a door mat to be walked all over by her and that you’re going to screw her silly that next time shes a bad girl and disrespects you like that again. You lay the law down haha To me she sounds like someone to have a lot of fun with but you have that fun and go find someone better to maybe even make her jealous or you just move on. With the new better girl I’d be honest and tell her whats up with your ex and some pros can either work the jealousy into major sexy time or even threesomes with those crazy chicas. Anyways acting like all the jerks is easy and sometimes a lot of fun to just let loose and say what you wanna say.

Maybe even start adding in stipulations when she “begs” for sex. Hell maybe make her bring a friend even. I think you could milk the situation for what its worth. Help her cheat on these fools maybe.

But you gotta remember, nice guys aren’t innocent. Nice guys are being manipulative too by always buying shit for girls to get the sex from them

18

Yeah I was actually considering that the other day. Nice guys are manipulative in their own way, but I suppose it’s human nature.

Oh don’t you worry, I always play on the stipulations of sex. She gets it how I want to give it to her. And when. And it just so happens that’s the way she LOVES it. I have no problems getting message after message the next day and subsequents, saying how amazing and ‘precipative’… if you catch my drift… things get when she even thinks about it. But the problem is, that isn’t everything. It’s a card I can only half hold. She is just as completely content to have no sex at all, or terrible sex, by hanging onto the asshat guys that fill those other needs.

I know it’s easy to say… BE those needs. Fill what they do. But when they’re such losers, it’s hard to pin down exactly what it is. I’ve started thinking it’s that jerkiness that meets her Alpha in some way. It HAS to be the case. There is no other reason.

What we had was purely JUST very sexual at times too. We went from friends of 2.5 years, to f@#k buddies, to dating, to not dating, to f@#k buddies, to kinda dating, now back to somewhat of just friends. And damn it if I don’t want another crack to get things back again. Guy’s gotta face the challenge I suppose. Stubborn bastards, we are :stuck_out_tongue:

19

Btw, I’m going to give the Jerk a test run tomorrow :slight_smile: I wonder if that could have been a problem all along? Men seem to get along with me like no tomorrow and really respect me (possible no threat due to low NONE?) While I’ll admit it’s pretty damn hard to get women to see me in the right light (again, no sexual trigger?).
Results to come.

20

The only pheros I’ve found worth pairing with IJ are A314 in a larger than normal dose, A1 and TAC for its sexual enhancement rather than steering properties.

Otherwise the imbalance between the none in IJ and its steering and the other pheros is just too much to get even appreciable steering effects that don’t detract from the essential IJ vibe. The A314 however will broaden it and deepen it into the jerk who really means/has something going for him. A1 will help make her like and want more of your arseholeish tendencies and TAC, well, that’s for later-on! :wink:

You could always add some Cops to help recreate the old IJ - Tisha and someone else have posted valuable info on this in past threads. :slight_smile: