Polite Discussion of Allegedly Falsified Reports

Lounge
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Moderator’s Notes:

*The following posts were split from another thread and moved to the Lounge. Otherwise, I haven’t touched it. Some members have deleted their contributions to this thread on their own volition. *

Disclosure: I’m not sure what to title it. In the spirit of fairness and descriptiveness, “Polite Discussion of Allegedly Falsified Reports” may do the trick. “Polite Discussion” so we can keep the discourse polite. “Allegedly”, because no one person can easily prove these are “Falsified Reports”.

If we cannot keep this discussion polite, we will use our discretion to moderate it if necessary. Readers use their discretion when reading and believing individual member’s product use claims.

Cordially,
Brian

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These are random cocktail servers with their backs turned, ignoring you. They serve drinks and wear skimpy outfits. That’s their job. Really. Hand them a $5 spot. They might even smile at you for real. This is not game dude, this is tragic.

Lolita Alert: (Lolita (1962 film) - Wikipedia) :open_mouth:

How many posts is that about HS teens now? Like 10-20?

The YouTube above is a bunch of random disco peeps and some dude shooting smack in a Memphis alley. Where are the make out sessions with hot chicks? Is this a made up story again?

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Why are you commenting on these old posts?

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The author of this thread said:

“I used to make up some outrageous claims with some molecules just to see how many others would follow suit. It became kind of a game with some of us.”

The story presented seems dubious at best. It really belongs in the Lounge. There are a number of outrageous claims in the thread. But the photos and videos don’t depict the cirumstances in the narrative. Instead, numerous women generally walking past and ignoring the photographer. Therefore, based upon reasonable common sense, chances are this is simply another fictional thread manufactured as a “kind of a game,” intended for comedic effect.

In all the UF/Stealth experiments, none even come close to this level of hyperbole–not by a country mile.

Even though these happened a few years ago, people read them–the hundreds of new people who join monthly. Is it any wonder the mainstream media and scientists still do not take pheromones seriously?

“Why are you commenting on these old posts?” I felt like it. If you find them emotionally disturbing, I wouldn’t be offended if you feel you must avert your eyes.

More specific answer. Browsing the other day, I come across a proprietor of a pheromone co. Claims to be a Full Member of a global society of professional chemists. But, one cannot be a member without being a trained chemist. And the thought occurs: “Is there nothing person wouldn’t do or say to sell pheromones?” This owner/proprietor isn’t a chemist. No, it’s one in a series of online posts spanning years and years of innacurate, half-truth information. It’s time for the misinformation to stop.

Nevetheless, if the original poster could simple identify the truthful posts and the joke posts, the task of moving jokes to the Lounge could be expedited. And someone reading this in the future won’t be confused or bamboozled by it.

THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED OR WANT MORE PHEROMONE HYPE. If anything, it wants more common sense and reality. This thead isn’t even in the same galaxy as common sense. Not to mention the number of erotic posts about school teens. That kind of stuff really doesn’t even belong online.

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Well let me help you out. UF is one of the reasons that I no longer wear mones. I don’t remember which one it was, you can read through my notes next if you would like. I’m sure I kept detailed reports.

But I keenly recall that UF stinks. I mean they smell bad. Like piss. The first hit I got was from a female friend that knew I was testing this pack and she told me in the hall to stop looking at her like that and that I was being unprofessional at work. She was dead serious and was mad at me all day. All I did was smile and say good morning. So yea, UF has some pretty ridiculous potential. I don’t know if Steve was exaggerating here. He was pretty serious about testing this pack. Any questions? Would you like to go through my threads now too?

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Your report seems very sincere. Here is the key fact, Josie: you’re not the person who admitted–and never apologized–for making fake posts, something which is against the basic rules for reporting users. The purpose of the experiment was to gather accurate data. Your data is accurate. When people post false reports, it distorts all of the data. More to the point, I believe you, Josie. Your posts, and those of 99% of users are genuine, sometimes with an occasional hint of comedy. The original premise of the thread was a test report, but much of it reads like a sexual fantasy story. I don’t believe it. The author of the original post, I don’t believe what he says happened actually did.

Therefore, since his original right to post the thread is no less equal than my right to call BS, I invoke that right. I express my opinion. My opinion is that most ordinary people would find it to be ridiculous, especially from someone who admits having typed countless faked threads. And does not apologize for it.

“Any questions? Would you like to go through my threads now too?” No. I don’t doubt your honesty. And your position on fake posts? In favor or against? However– If I found a post that didn’t make sense or add up, I might query you. If you claimed to be a chemist, I might ask your credentials, especially if you said something that didn’t make sense or was factually wrong.

Now, again, let me say you seem like an honest fellow. But, understand a simple truth of humanity: People lie. And it is only our critical thinking skills that offer any protection from distorted data.

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MMDI, curious to know …

What happened that’s got you all fired up?

You’re not really going to bump all of SteveO’s old posts, are you?

Do what you must … I’m just curious. Thanks.

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Actually this is excellent reporting - and it has a clear ring of accuracy that confirms what little we were told about UF before its release - You clearly identified it an Androstenone heavy/overt sexual product and her response was absolutely in line with what can happen when you wear an overt sexual in a very unsuitable environment - This is not a reason to stop using mones though, all it says is that you helped establish the boundaries for using this MX and now you should move it to a more social/uninhibited situation and maybe look to trying something more balanced and less overtly sexual at work - and your findings will undoubtedly be as valuable with that too.

A bad report - honestly given and explained is every bit as valuable as endless amounts of glowing praise. :slight_smile:

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  1. The purpose of the thread was to report upon a research experiment, funded in part only via reporting users, who receive deep discounts with little profit margin.

  2. The author of the original post admitted an undetermined number of “made up” posts spanning several years.

  3. Since very few other reports even come close to the glamour, pomp and splendour of the original post, reasonable folks would conclude it to was made up.

  4. As an experiment, the data has been permanently corrupted. It is impossible to know whether the test data are genuine observations. My instincts are that JosieW is correct and that the OP is not.

  5. This is why influential people carry a great leadership burden (A314). They can choose to be Reichsminister Goebbels or Franklin D. Roosevelt. Spread democracy or spread National Socialist propaganda.

  6. Due to conformity bias, people will disregard their own observations in favor of the popular one:

Solomon Asch highlighted a phenomenon now known as “conformity”. A subject sees a puzzle–Which of the lines A, B, and C is the same size as the line X? The gotcha is that the subject is seated alongside a number of other people looking at the diagram?seemingly other subjects, actually confederates of the experimenter. The other “subjects” in the experiment say that line C seems to be the same size as X. The real subject is seated next-to-last. How many people, placed in this situation, would say “C”?giving an obviously incorrect answer that agrees with the unanimous answer of the other subjects?

Three-quarters of the subjects in Asch’s experiment gave a “conforming” (false) answer at least once. A third of the subjects conformed more than half the time.
Interviews after the experiment showed that while most subjects claimed to have not really believed their conforming answers, some said they’d really thought that the conforming option was the correct one.

Asch’s Conformity Experiment - Less Wrong

  1. The sexual hero in the original post actually set back 5 years of research and $10K’s in product development. This is why medical experiments are double blinded, to prevent research tampering due to ego or money.

  2. Answering your question, M&M, this OP belongs in the Lounge, as the fiction it is. The OP might suppose that I might not be smart enough to see through it. That I wouldn’t know he isn’t a Regular Member of the American Chemical Society–because he isn’t a bloody chemist! So, if he could start speaking more honestly, and stop using ACS logo inappropriately, that might persuade me. Otherwise, I will create a Lounge thread, flag every probable fake post, and request they all be moved, for good cause stated (dishonesty). As a courtesy to those who have email subscriptions.

  3. At any time, the individual could come forward, apologize for the fake posts, flag them, and request an admin move them. However, since the OP shamelessly sees nothing wrong with 7 years of ruined experiments and corrupted data, I don’t suppose his ego would permit such a mea culpa.

  4. The emperor has no clothes. There is an Oz (real pheromones), but there is no Wizard. The Wizard of this Pheromone Oz was only ever a fiction. Look. Do you see a master PUA and mones expert–someone who gets laid every weekend? No. Because it very likely did not happen. What did happen? A cult fiction. Oh yeah, the products work. Thanks that Dancing Joker has a way to sell his potions. Where do you think those XS potions come from?

Where are the girls–the love action–the moves of the (alleged) master PUA? There aren’t any. Was it a “made up” story? Sure looks that way.

Post Script:

In contrast to one public figure, we have Garry at LAL. I read online a quoted email that contains one of the most profound statements you will see in ten years about how mones work. My experiments show they might not work all through the nose. He understands clearly how self effects work, as did MadTater. I don’t know Garry personally, but we need more attitudes like that and less Wizardry. If the product is good, it doesn’t need a Penthouse story to sell it. No Gilderoy Lockhart!

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So, being that it was, at the time, The House of Androtics, in which Steveo worked for, and SteveO said it, and it was allowed, what is that REALLY saying, M?

THE END

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Are you saying Androtics knowingly sanctioned false reports?

There’s no evidence they did. The author of this thread admitted, in his own words, on his own site, not telling the truth. He also claims to be a member of the American Chemical Society. Let’s see the membership papers. Let’s see the chemistry degree. Or is that made up too.

What’s your take on fake reports? Are you in favor or against?

What’s your take on people who claim to be professional scientists but are not actually? Are you in favor of it or against it? :slight_smile:

There is a word in the dictionary for people who admit not telling the truth and who also have no shame about their conduct, despite the fact that it was their duty to uphold accurate testing and to coach, mentor and train other users how to do it the right way. The honest way. There is a four-letter word for people who don’t tell the truth. Rhymes with “fryer.” And the author of this thread is, by his own words, that person.

Is this quote real or not? If it is, only the person who wrote it is responsible. Androtics didn’t do it, so please don’t put the blame on them.

“I used to make up some outrageous claims with some molecules just to see how many others would follow suit.”

I know it’s hard to deal with M&M, but you know the truth. The truth is that many, many threads authored by the guy that wrote that were probably highly fictional. It was a dupe, a trick, a put on, a flim flam. That quote was posted 6 months ago. He doesn’t deny one word. Not one. Androtics didn’t write that. He did. You know who the others are? The others, M&M, are you. He made it up, to see if he could fool you. He did.

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NOPE. I AIN’T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! But I am saying … THIS WAS NEVER STEVE’S HOUSE. He worked here. “Always make the attempt to look past the walls of life, and you’ll note a whole new world opens up.” — M&M

As for the fake reports … SEX SALES, too; and I don’t want anyone burning NEGATIVE energy, because as good as some of us think we are, it messes up their day/moment.

Still, testing confirms most things. And to me, testing has always been fun! :wink: The proof is in the pudding, and I’m very happy with the results of my testing through the years.

One second on NEGATIVE ENERGY is a second wasted, M. Don’t give in to it. Just saying. :cool:

P.S. I’m so very ready for some FOOTBALL! :smiley:

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I would like to pipe up a little about the reasoning as to why Sir SteveO is MIA.

It’s because of this hypebeast nature that he set us back at least 2 or 3 years. It was terrifying to watch the way decisions were made shortly after I was signed on. Everyone was moving in fear as to what threat Steve would come up with next, despite the fact he wasn’t here. We cleaned up a lot of bad vibes, it’s just a process of recovering from it.

So, your doubts aren’t unfounded, and trust me on this one, happier to see him gone. He was sort of a blight to our way of transparent growth, falsifying results for the web result of everyone onboard having a good time. It made him look good to AD leadership. Leading AD to put trust in him. But all I have seen is a madman lying through his teeth.

He skirts the ever dangerous line between fact and fiction, and takes the bell curve with him.

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Makes sense.

The ONLY way one can move forward, is to let go of yesterday. That’s ALL I was really trying to say to MMMDI.

Anyway, EVERYBODY keep hanging in there!

Oh, and why you’re here, I asked THE MX353 QUESTION almost 4 months ago, and got no reply. I hate it when my questions go unanswered. Is John no longer in the picture, either? :open_mouth:

To be continued …

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Brian brought a bunch of positive changes with him, including my goofy ass. But to inhale we have to exhale first.

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I have to say that from my first visit, something “just didn’t click” about SteveO and his stories. As I’ve said before, I had some wild experiences with Andron in the 80s. Some rivaled anything SteveO wrote, but his stories just didn’t fit my experiences in any way I could relate to, and speaking as a guy whose game was merely ‘pretty decent’ back in the day (good enough to annoy my friends, but I’m glad it wasn’t much better, because I might have really screwed up my life – let’s just say I found females more significantly distracting than the average young guy), SteveO’s stories just never sounded like the accounts of a guy who’d actually “lived in that town”.

But he was considered credible by the community (who presumably knew him), and he had some plausible, credible info, so I always assumed I just hadn’t seen the posts that would have made it all make sense to me. The archives are vast, after all.

Now, it seems that maybe his enthusiasm go the better of him. Admitting that does you credit. I’ve been on the internet since long before the Web existed, and have adminned a sizeable BBS (millions of posts) on the side. I know some of the strange ways the Net affects people, so I don’t hold that against him (or you) too much, but this revelation DID keep me from submitting an order I was about to make with his new company. I’m not saying I won’t try their stuff, which seems well-reviewed, but I’m definitely going to lurk those boards for a while, with more caution.

I hope no phero-newbie reading this is dissuaded by my skepticism, but as I have often said, they aren’t magic potions. You have to work the mix (and find the right mix to work), so you should do as much homework as you can (using every tool at your disposal, including your personal judgements on the reports) before committing to the extended experimentation necessary to truly “learn” a given mix. I’ve found Androtics a reliable source of effective ingredients, but it’s up to me to choose which paint that will look good on my house or which ingredient that will improve my recipe. I’ll be living with that best guess for a while, before I find out for sure

I get a strong sense that he’d have gone down that path even if he hadn’t been hired by you. It’s just the nature of that beast, especially on the Internet.

I realize that MMMDI’s actions may seem annoying or excessive to some, but I’m glad he’s persevering. We can ALL only benefit as a result

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Just to add here :

first it wont help us much to discuss if there is data screwed up or not ..

next is that you now should try to figure out which noob or whatever person did post incorrect data because he maybe was on roids or on medicine or was sporting a builtup .. ever thought about it ?

And finally there are quite a lot of people out there that never gave much to what Steve reported or said .. take me for example ..

Ahm yes and when talking about Gilderoy Lockhart .. one should read the Harry Potter Wiki .. glad that i found a character that represents soo many shades of personalities :smiley:

Pago

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It is most important to focus on the conduct rather than a specifc person. Intentional misinformation in consumer products is always wrong.

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/8-companies-sold-you-lies-67640.html

Reporting Users receive a discount in exchange for providing honest, candid information. The only absolute requirement is that the report not be intentionally dishonest. Dishonest data is worthless.

The author of this thread admitted knowingly and shamelessly violating the policy whilst receiving discounted molecules for years. It is requested, to demonstrate zero tolerance for intentionally posting fake reports, that the thread author shoud have “Busy Licking My Eyebrows” replaced with:

Banned

There has been no apology. Where there is no remorse, there can be no forgiveness. Such a decision is not only justified but appropriate to the circumstances. When rules are broken, a penalty is required. For an ordinary user, loss of the reporting discount is the correct penalty. For severe, willful or repeat violations, a ban may be, in rare cases, warranted. Now is such a case.

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And my LAST COMMENT on the subject is …

“IF ONLY ALL THE WRONG DOERS OF THE WORLD WOULD APOLOGIZE. BUT IT ONLY MATTERS IF THEY MEANT IT, AND NOT JUST SAYING IT.” — M&M

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Hey there, SteveO. Ready to quit pretending you’re a “Member” of the American Chemical Society? Last time I checked, a person had to have a degree in chem or similar field to even apply for membership. Let’s see the certificate. Or is that made up as well.