That’s why stepping right back from her and minimising all communication will actually help to focus her thoughts, one way or the other.
It also gives you a chance to gather your emotions-up, heal somewhat and deal with them too. Splits are hellishly upsetting even without the extra issues you have in play. It will help you in the long run and again, approaching her as stable, in-control of your feelings and with a non-needy/expecting emotional frame may actually help you seem more attractive and trustworthy to her
Yeah I can see that all this makes sense. But in a way I am just annoyed about the fact that everything seems to be going nice and it all went to hell suddenly. In retrospect there was one moment where I acted a bit annoyed about something she said and maybe this got her thinking. On the other hand she should have considered that I was going through I hard break-up for her so it would make sense if I was more sensitive in some ways…
I’ve been researching into to “fallout” effect of certain mixes. I guess this is pretty much what I am trying to achieve here, right ?
Seeing as this takes a bit of time to achieve, should I introduce a sexual in our first limited interaction to make her feel a bit stronger towards me ? Or am I thinking in the wrong lines here ?
Also, this might be important. I’ve read many fallout threads and the effects on women. What I have to say is that those exact effects were at play between me and this girl when we met. Friendly at first, then started to hang out more and more, she was going out of her way to see me more, being touchy and cuddly and after our first intimate contacts she really started to tell me how she never felt this way before, how this tension between us was new to her, how much I made her relax when we were having sex and she was able to enjoy it more than ever. Also started making plans for the future, us living together, telling me that she loved me, waiting for me after class just to see me, going to seminars together, walking by my office all the time…You get the picture. And all this was WITHOUT any pheromones…
So seeing how things turned to hell, do you think this effect could be reproduced again with the aid of -mones, or should I take a completely different approach this time ?
Yes, in essence you are using a fallout mix - but its more to try and restore her trust/confidence in you than outright attraction. Everything you said relier pointed in this direction.
To this end, I’d suggest you lay-off the sexual until she’s in a position to respond to it positively. Work is a difficult place for sexuals - its not like you can get down to it on your desks, so in a more restrained environment it becomes much more likely that a woman will become uncomfortable with any arousal and draw back - or at worst find you pushy or even flat-out creepy.
For now, projecting status, closeness, dependable and trusting qualities in work/college until she’s more comfortable with being with you in a more social and therefore potentially sexual environment when you add the sexual. Also, whilst it can take considerable time for fallout to set-in with some women, the trust/status and connection qualities can manifest themselves much faster. Which is one of the reasons I find A314/IH/P74 superb around very difficult people at work when I often don’t have much time to get them on my side - albeit I’d be using a higher dose of P74 to emphasise the close/friendly qualities rather than any potentially attractive aspects.
And yes, it can be reproduced again with mones - sometimes more quickly than you might expect but they will build best over at least a few exposures and it is important to break contact for some time to draw her feelings to the point where it will work best and so you can resume contact with the best frame of mind.
It is worth considering a different approach but its hard to see one that would do well in a work/college environment. In the fun/social sphere, a lightweight/crushy “heat of the moment” type of engaging sexual based on something like A1/Meo-Est is viable but these are both much more difficult pheros to use, with potential problems for you and you need to get her out there in the first place. And swapping majorly between mixes is not that advisable as you should to keep at least your base mix fairly consistent for a while. Steering/sexual elements can be changed fairly freely.
By the time I will see her again it will be almost a month without seeing each other. As I said before I will just surprise her in a way with an excuse of returning a book she gave me. I don’t know what I can expect from A314/IH/P74 in this situation. How much time would I need to be close to her to have the -mones work (even subconsciously and maybe after I am gone too).
I like that fact that this mixture is about building trust/bonding, but my first concern would be to just make her less distant and just willing to chat a bit. Maybe If I see a positive reaction I could tell her to have lunch with me and some other people that we are in the same project… But maybe she will just deny that. In our final conversation she had said that she had better avoid me as long as I still have feelings for her so it will not be awkward between us…
A month is fine. I’ve waited a lot longer before meeting someone again and done well from it and not that long ago I had an ex of many, many years reconnect most positively when exposed to that sig - three times over about six weeks.
They will be working but yes, it could take several exposures before they really manifest themselves but they will be working the moment you get in diffusion range from her. How long a subject can take between detecting a phero and expressing a response can vary quite a bit but, esp if there are other issues in the way but on some level it will be affecting her.
That’s partly why the IH/P74 is suggested - its closeness/connection/sharing or “boyfriending” properties will contribute to just that and the IH helps bring that “I could talk to you about anything” feel to the mix. I’d give it a few exposures before asking her to lunch though - and hopefully the signature will help stimulate her natural curiosity/desire to see you. It would be better if she asked to see you herself - its starting to “invest” in you again. Don’t hope or expect anything more than just normal politeness/pleasantries the first couple of times you see her.
Its actually to your advantage to be fairly restrained (but still positive, not downbeat) and not to get drawn too far into conversation to begin with. The ex, breezing-in all happy and like nothing ever happened is almost a cliche on how not to do-it.
Well asking her for lunch or whatever is just my means of exposing her to my -mone sig. Else I have no chance or excuse or running into her… Unless somehow the first exposure does something magical I don’t see why she should try to hang out with me again…
If that’s going to be your only chance, take it - but keep it as informal as possible. Don’t worry about the length of time too much - its more the repeated exposure/removal cycle that important here.
Again its better if you are not seen to be looking for an excuse to just be around her for any reason. Being able to walk away is actually a surprisingly powerful attraction/attention-getter.
Well I could probably get away with talking to her two times with excuse of returning stuff to her. Probably a lunch with colleagues too. After that I will be away for about a month before i will see her again for a 3-day seminar… I have a quilt that she lent to me and I will have to return it before I leave. Probably drop it at her place or office. Could I put some kind of -mone on it or this would be pointless without my presence there ?
That’s a good timescale for now - Room for you and your pheros to make an impact and reinforce it with periods that encourage her to miss you/wonder what-if inbetween. Also time to work-on different doses of A314 to see what works best overall.
No, don’t spray the quilt!
You do want her to associate the pheros with you physically - so another reason to minimise all contact except in person.
Spraying on materials is difficult for several reasons, first is that pheros need heat to diffuse well, then some types of fiber or laundry conditioner can trap pheros very effectively, which means very little diffusion and they can stink after a while.
Then the whole issue of scent divorced from a person can be trouble - Scents can be a powerful eotional trigger and if she’s conflicted, things can go very badly. I’ve seen women truly repulsed when an ex has perfumed a letter or similar with his cologne - even where she “loved it” previously. Don’t tempt fate here.
I’d also suggest you have alook through the cosmetic products you use - Try and ditch any that contain triclosan or “antibacterial” as these can be very damaging to pheros. Esp in lotions/moisturisers, hair and body sprays, anti-persps etc.
Slimming things back to a simple deo/anti-persp and good quality cologne will help minimise damage, the better quality end of the market tends to be less laden with phero-destroying chemicals.
I’ve still been researching fallout mixes. I decided that my fallout mix would have to be A314 (oil) / IH / P74
I am still a bit concerned though because fallout effects start to manifest after many exposures (normally after about 5-6 contacts)
My interactions with her will be very short, she is actively avoiding me. So I would have to make the most of the time I spend with her. Would a mix that would bring forward sexual desire would be bad, especially seeing as we had this amazing tension between us every time we were together. Or is this something that can actually go away that easily between two people ? Personally I don’t really believe that it can, but it definitely can be consciously suppressed if there are other issues involved.
From what I’ve been reading so far, for the fallout effect to happen you would have to be around each other and have an actual talk, a long one preferably, with her doing most of the talking. But I don’t think she would be willing to do that with me. My rationale here is that if I went for something sensual/sexual so she can be reminded of how it felt to be around each other, wouldn’t that make a greater impact in the short time we interacted ? I mean if she sees me and she is arouses she will keep thinking of me more directly…
Any thoughts on my rumblings would be appreciated experienced people
How long it takes can vary widely between women - I’d say that could be the lower end of the timescale. Some can take a lot longer/many more exposures.
Personally, I don’t think you have a problem with sexual attraction and her. Its the lack of trust/loss of status that clouded things and that is what the mix is aimed at supporting.
That she’s actively avoiding you says a few things - It could well be guilt, self-doubt/second thoughts about ditching you or a result of the tension you mention. IME women don’t usually don’t have any great problem about not avoiding you if it is a straightforward loss of attraction - in fact they almost seem to go the opposite direction then and try to pull you-in as an orbiter as soon as they can. All of these are powerful emotional switches that can go either way and as things are still a bit raw, I’m concerned that too much of a sexual element could very likely go the wrong way. This is why I suggest you wait and see how she responds to just your base mix for a few exposures, or keep the sexual for a more social environment where she will likely be more relaxed
The moderation in your base mix is good and there is a small amount of Androstenone in A314 already - not enough to be overtly sexual but enough to underline things in a decidedly masculine manner. With any established attraction, that should be just enough.
Talk and fallouts - Nope! I’ve established one on pheros and eye-contact/body language alone and frankly she’s amongst of the strongest/fastest developing I’ve yet had. I’m waiting for her to finish work right now and whilst she’s not said anything, her body language, particularly her ass has said plenty!
On other occasions I’ve had a few secondary fallouts who have had barely any attention from me. This is one of the reasons I stopped wearing A314/IH/P74 on a regular basis at work - The number of women fawning over me was getting noticed and not in a good way. I save it for events/short term/specific use now.
Although saying that, some conversation does help in most cases and for now, the basics that help you start talking again would be enough - then you try to move it to a more relaxed/sexual direction - so its not in your interest to push too quick, or use too aggressive a signature until she steps-up a bit.
So on a note unrelated to pheromones. I will be going to this party tonight, and I kind of have a date with my neighbor. A young cute chinese girl with a hot body… So the thing is that the colleagues of the girl of my interest will be there, she will not as she is in another country now. Should I be flirtatious and touchy with this girl ? She will most definitely find out about it from one of her colleagues. Could this be to my advantage or could it backfire in light of all the trust/will-not-allow-my-heart-to-be-broken-twice-by-the-same-guy mentality… ??
Difficult one this - Normally, being seen enjoying yourself with other women is considered a very powerful interest re-generator for ex’s and I must say that it has worked supremely well for me in the past.
However, given the trust/committment issues in play with you main target, I’m not so convinced and it could go either way with her - but if it gets her colleagues tounges wagging against you, then it could be more in your favour than aginst.
A quick thought - You mention this girl is Chinese and you said the other girl was from abroad - Is she Asian or any other significant ethnicity? This could be an important factor affecting your phero choice - Although A314/IH/P74 is a good solid base mix around several races and for Asians, particualrly Han Chinese/Japanese, Androsterone (A314 or IG) is very often your friend and Androstenone should be kept to a much smaller steering role compared to Western women (although there can be exceptions)
In the meantime, hope you had a good party whatever.
The girl I was going to the party with was Chinese. The girl of my interest is Dutch. Good to know about the Asian women too, as the Chinese girl is really into me it seems. She is a bit young though (22) and with no sexual experience whatsoever…
2-3 drops A314, 2-4 sprays IH and 15-40mcg P74 pretty much covers the range for me.
Most typically it was 2 drops A314, 2 sprays IH and 20mcg P74 but it would be varied as the situation required - more for events or when the big guns were about and a bit less for day to day stuff.
Then it could be further sexualised for outside work with some TUTH, NPA or IJ, often with P83 as a secondary/disinhibitor in more raunchy/physical situations, 30-60mcg depending on the overtness of the sexual.
Well as it turns out the Asian girl is really into me. Don’t need any pheros. But anyway I would not pursue her. Still really in love with the Dutch girl and breaking another girl’s heart would only make me feel worse…
