What to Do Next??

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

GET READY! This is potentially a long one.

Closing has not been my forte lately.

This cute girl who transferred here was digging me. Hard. Her best friend (who she has known since middle school) introduced me to her.

The 3 of us went out for Thai food once, and I started to build a rapport with her.

She told me about how she hooked up with this one guy I know and how he’s a douchebag and she hates him.

Fast forward a little bit, we go on an unofficial date – a buffalo wing dinner, 40 oz. of beer pregame, and a comedian (the dude from Cash Cab).

Then, she wanted to watch a movie. We did it in the common room with a couple of other people. Most of them left, and I started flirting with her a little bit. Then, her best friend (who lives on the same floor that we were watching the movie) texted her because she wanted to tell her about an accidental sexcapade she had with some random guy. She went. Then, she came out. Our plan was to go to one of the science buildings and take stuff from it (hey, I’m not a saint), but it was almost 2 in the morning. She asked for me to walk her home. I got to her room, and she made me tea.

I thought about kissing her briefly, but then I thought “this girl’s a little too weird for me and comes across as a princess (won’t get into how I came to that conclusion).”

Anyways, she’s owed me brownies for a while, and I started bothering her about it. FINALLY, she got a measuring cup (she refused to make them without a measuring cup), and last weekend, she was going to make them for me, but didn’t because she had a lot of work (end of semester is here). Instead, we hung out in her room for about 2 hours, and she showed me this cool new study spot in her dorm (I go there everyday now).

We were going to go to a hibachi restaurant with a lot of friends, but she bailed because she wanted to have dinner with Hillel House, and she said she was planning on running for office.

When I went back to my dorm a little pissed because I wanted Hibachi, her best friend saw me and said “I thought you had a date night w/ Kate (we’ll use the name Kate).”

A couple of days later, I go to hangout with her. She has a few friends there, and about after ten minutes of me being there, they suddenly ALL excuse themselves (I happened to be sitting next to Kate on her bed at this time). As soon as they left, I suggested we go down to the study lounge.

That night, a friend of mine who knows her had his fraternity formal and came back drunk (not belligerent). We started talking about girls because he was a little pissed that he took a girl that was REALLY cute and nice, but didn’t reveal that she had a boyfriend until the dance.

I started talking about Kate and how I get the Princess vibe and I don’t like that it seems she has an alcohol problem. He says she seems prude (the night we had our comedy date, she said she doesn’t have sex and her ex-boyfriend waited 4 yrs for it). We were pretty loud, and there’s a small chance that her best friend overheard us. The drunk kid has been instructed to play dumb if anyone asks any questions. He’s going to say that I think she’s cool and enjoy hanging out with her, and leave it at that.

The next day, I text Kate, asking if she has a blank CD so I can save my iMovie. She replies a few hours later, “Sorry I don’t.” Very bland response…OK…

Her best friend (who, by the way, is a major head case) starts acting pretty nasty to me (I’ve been friends with this girl (although we do get pissed at each other quite a lot) for about a year, before I met Kate).

I go to the study lounge, and after a few hours, I BBM her asking her to come visit me real quick (she’s literally one floor above the lounge). The message is marked as ‘read,’ but she never responds to me.

Where did I mess up? Is it because I didn’t act with her? Honestly, I wasn’t that interested but now that it looks like I lost her, I kind of am? Also, the last time I hung out with her, she mentioned dresses that she would wear ‘if a guy took her to a formal’ (I’m not in Greek life, she knows, and only Greeks have formals), so I’m beginning to think the guy she calls a “douchebag” is now back in her life.

I’m playing it cold shoulder. I tried to be nice to her friend, she wasn’t having it, so I told her “whatever, goodbye.” I refuse to talk to either one of them right now.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

OH and to make this about pheros, 1xAMMO to the chest, 1xIH 2x to other pec.

I was thinking about next time I see her, just change Ammo to TUTH, and IH to 2xCTTM2. Just to spice things up a little bit and have a more ‘fun and carefree’ than ‘honest’ type of vibe.

2

The best solution IMO is just to give her the cold shoulder, and focus your attention on some other girls for a while. “Princess syndrome” girls always want what they can’t have and when you make yourself too available they’ll walk all over you. I’ve seen this time and time again with some of my friends. I personally don’t waste my time with those types of girls unless they’re buying me dinner and taking me out for drinks. Even then I keep them in my friend zone.

In regards to the pheros situation, princess syndrome girls generally don’t respond well to TUTH IMO. TUTH works best when you know you have a good shot with your target. Sure TUTH will make “prudes” a little more willing to do things but it isn’t going to be enough on its own to get you laid. If you’re truly heart set on winning the princess over, I’d take the IH out of the picture and try Ammo+A314.

3

I’ll consider it.

I essentially had her, I think it was just me not making a move. I guess I want her more now that it seems like shes gotten rid of me hahaha.

Still, I’m not gonna chase her. She’s gotta chase me if she wants me. Otherwise, it’s on to the next one.

4

Lakerman,

You seem like an insightful intelligent guy.

This seems to be a pattern with you.

You acknowledge that closing is a problem.

Kino? P51 posted a great link to vin dicarlos escalation ladder. Not saying kino escalation is enough but maybe you answered your question when you said you thought about kissing her and you didnt.

Just something to think about.

5

Hmmm…
I have the same problem all the time (but I am the one with the gf) hahaha I can’t close because one way or an other my cover either gets blown or I am too late. My personality is a very IG vibe, very respectable and a “cute” and “teddy bear” vibe with the ladies. The only time this disappears is when I PRETEND to be drunker than I am (I am usually dad for my friends) or when I am amph’d and just simply dont care.

Anyways you seem to have the edge that I lack, so my game is most likely different than yours. I try to be suave and cunning but I feel like a douche, I cant change who I am and if a girl doesnt like me for me then she can f**k off and I dont need her.

She seems to caught wind of something foul… if there is or not I dont know, but maybe try having a serious convo with her, catch her off guard, make her brownies or something, something that shows that you miss her. You dont need to kiss her ass or anything but just throw your line out for a bit and then reel her in!

that is just my 3 cents for ya
~Tea

6

Yeah, I have an “older guy” vibe, kind of sexual (girls have told me that my presence alone is seductive–kind of cool), funny, easy-going, friendly, smooth, and a little bit of a jerk sometimes.

I feel like girls would like that mix. I think they do for a while, but b/c I prolong the “lets get down and dirty,” they grow a little uninterested.

7

I think for a lot of guys the problem is closing the girl (my problem as well) basically its the level of conversation you are having with her. I’m not talking seeking commonalities, that I learned doesn’t work with women.

In short you can’t be afraid to escalate the conversation towards a more sexual but friendly zone (if that makes sense).

But if she came off as a prude and made her last bf wait 4 years :open_mouth:…I say move on.

8

Idk some girls are worth that wait and I respect that greatly, but yea if all you want is sex I’d say move on, she doesn’t seem like that type and that’s where I feel thats she got closed up

9

I agree with andromun. Never be afraid to escalate a conversation. a lot of men, especially younger men, think women like this romantic, make love kind of crap. In truth, while some do, MOST DONT. From talking with lots of women over the years, I have found that when you talk about things like "a little hair tugging, hard, pounding, good sex, they like it more and you get a better response from them. When was the last time you talked about candles and rose petals and got laid?

Her comment about making him wait 4 years is just a control issue. Either that or she is a good Christian in which case you need to decide if she is really worth the wait. She would have to be really special for me to wait 4 years, lol. I would definitly have a few on the site during the wait.

If it were me, I would just tell her, “look…Enough BS. I like you. I would really like to be with you but I’m not into games. If you have no interest in ever being with me, let me know so we can quit wasting both of our time.” This will give her a sense of urgency that if she does like you, she is on the edge of not having you. Then pretty much leave it at that and go about your business. See if she comes after you.

10

Yeah, I guess y’all are right -___-

11

Ok… let’s review…

Lol. I do have to say… are you listening to yourself? I don’t see how closing is the actual issue here. Heck… I’ve refused to close and actually made the girl close before just for the heck of it. shrugs

There are a few mistakes that I see (keep in mind that I am biased and could be totally or at least somewhat inaccurate). Let’s go about this one by one.

You got off to a good start. There were going well. You rose the level of anticipation and so forth. You gave her a hard time. You flirted a little. The story goes on. Just because she “doesn’t have sex” does mean she can’t get turned on, like to flirt, cuddle, kiss, make-out, etc., or have a sensual side.

The other guy could be back in. You might have missed your window. It’s true. But I’m not sure that that was the case. It was unusual that her friend thought you were supposed to be on a date night and yet she didn’t make it. Maybe he was making his move to get her back? I don’t know. But clearly she was talking about you and considered you two dating by now or otherwise her friend would have no knowledge of it, much less refer to it that way.

Here is the killer. A couple of days later… that was likely planned. Let’s review. You finally had a moment alone, you were sitting next to her, ON HER BED, IN HER ROOM, ALONE. I’m not saying get it on with the girl. Not at all. Not in the least. She seems to have boundaries and any gentlemen should and would rightly respect that. But no sex doesn’t mean you can’t flirt, kiss, invader her personal space, or do something to show you are interested.

I’m not hating. I swear. But study lounge? She practically handed you the keys. When you are in that position, the very least you should have done was suggest you two go to the movies or go on a date elsewhere. But eek. You got to at least flirt at that point. Tease her. At least make her think that you might actually make a move and then stop before you do. Or get on a subject that has a sexual tint to it. Something simple. Maybe even something joking. But you were in the perfect spot. Granted, you can read her. If she is feeling or things are getting/seeming awkward then you suggest study lounge. But generally not before.

Otherwise, your lead up to this point is great. But I don’t think that’s what woudl have done it. Trust me… you may or may not have lost an opportunity but I don’t think it was the end of things.

Ok. Key. I could say in general, never talk negatively about anyone you are interested AT SCHOOL or with anyone else than your closest and most trustworthy of friends. School is just too small of a place… even at a college level. shrugs Or at least, that’s my opinion.

I think you hit the nail on the coffin. The bestfriend heard one way or another. Maybe another girl overheard you and spread it down. Or the bf. Or maybe even that girl was heading to see you to surprise you (maybe she felt bad or confused) and overheard you. Keep in mind that news and things said tend to move in chains (especially through the female population).

Why I believe it is clear is that following section. Even if you “didn’t close” I’d say a girl is rarely going to shut down on you like that. What’s more, even if she did there is no reason that her friend would ALSO be so nasty out of the blue. She’s sending you a definite message. It wasn’t like you made an unwanted move and got rejected and came off like a creep so they’re shunning you. So that means that they don’t like something else you DID (not didn’t do).

You could always ask the friend or ask the girl herself in person or whatever. But I think you might be experiencing burnt bridge syndrome here. Is it salvageable? Not unless you can actually figure out what is up. If they overheard you then you might be pretty hardpressed because princess types aren’t going to like being talked about like that. If it is something else you did or didn’t do, you might be able to make up for it. One of those “make it up to you” type situations. That’s something that’s actually pretty easy with princess types a lot. The standard flowers, candy, card type stuff often works. They like cliches. shakes head A dozen roses, let me make it up to you with a nice dinner. Blah blah blah.

The thing is… the extent of pravada attached to your “apology” depends on what actually happened. Also, if there should actually be an apology necessary for an actual wrong/misunderstanding or if it’s just her overreacting. I’ve found women are experts at telling everything but the truth so even figuring out what this is actually about could be an uphill battle.

So yes. You can play it two ways. Screw it. Wait it out a few weeks/months and hit her back up. Or move on… Or you could actually pursue an answer. To be honest, it sounds exactly like the type of reason you’d get after saying some “crap” about her that gets back to her.

Sometimes, though, I’ve found that the best course of action is often the most obvious. Why not text her, “Hey. Are you mad at me or something? I thought things were going good. What’s up? I haven’t heard from you in a while.” You can alter it (shorter or longer, more subtle friendly tone or more of a been dating tone). At any rate, I don’t see how it could hurt to ask. At least you will hopefully know whether to move on or not.

The only downside is she might not reply or if she is “ballzy” she might call you on your comments that she’s heard. That’s where it can get sticky. Because if you deny it but she actually heard to say it, yikes. If you deny it and her bf heard it then you are calling her a liar… and who do you think is going to win in that battle? It could get messy… yikes! So… best course of action… idk.

If that did happen and she calls you on it I’d fish. Find out who told her or who said that questioning her as if you are the victim of false information. After you’ve gotten to what she actually knows… then you can decide your next move. You should say you meant it in a good way. :confused: That’s a weak one. Probably your best possible defense is to say that you were talking about another girl from your past (probably won’t work if you were too specific) or were just trying to cheer up your drunk buddy so he didn’t do anything crazy.

BUT the most successful way is if you have some “speech craft”. You cleverly mix praise with insults. To the effect, of yeah… I kinda think this way about you because you are great at this this and this… but when we did this you came off this way. It might not necessarily be true but I got this impression and it kinda rubbed me the wrong way. But I could be way off base. Am I? Kinda thing. You have to do that delicately though because it can turn south real fast if done wrong. But done right and you can weather the storm while putting her on notice (and possible seeing some changes in future interactions).

Eek… it’s a bad little hole to be in. The easiest thing can sometimes be to eject and move on. But I don’t see what’s the harm in finding out what’s actually up. Don’t take my word for it… but if you don’t hear from her for a week or two I’d probably try to see what’s going on with her and if there’s any way you two can smooth things out. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh… and I agree… Ammo and a314. A314 and TUTH both have none… just A314 is going to have you the more desired effects from it in my opinion if you are going to go that route. :stuck_out_tongue: My opinion… granted… :stuck_out_tongue:

12

P.S. I was thinking about it and it hit me. The other course of action… maybe a tad less honest… (if you are quick on your feet) is to actually address exactly what was “heard”. You can take things point by point and review it as “that’s not what I said” or “meant” or “how I said it” or whatever. Then twist it to “what you actually meant/said” … blah blah blah… something a little more flattering. Not everything is going to come off totally nice more should you alter everything to sound nice. But at the very least you can cushion the blow of your words a little and apologize for your actions. You didn’t mean to hurt her feeling and then list some good things about her and maybe point to some good experiences you’ve had. Maybe ask for a do-over or start things over. It really depends on knowing the girl in this situation as far as what would make her feel better.

At any rate… keep in mind… two things. Sometimes people just get really busy or are going through other things in life that have nothing at all to do with you but that mean they kinda “disappear” for a while or withdraw. Likewise, some girls like to just create drama where there is none just to make their lives interesting… or because they are crazy… or both. So yeah. That’s why I say asking is usually the first step because from there you can usually figure out what’s going on (or if it’s a reasonable reason you’ll find out that right away and be able to stop stressing). :smiley:

13

Thanks for your input! Greatly appreciated!

Actually, in the past couple of days, I’m being led to believe that NO ONE heard anything. Also, that ‘bf’ isn’t in her life at all.

Her best friend who, like I said, is a head case, is mad at everyone on the floor and is acting pouty. I kind of told her I was done with her BS b/c I’m so nice to her and she’s mean to me, so I don’t want to talk to her unless she’s going to be nice.

Today, the girl butt dialed me. I didn’t pick up. She BBMed me and said “Sorry I buttdialed you” and I didn’t respond… she’s fully aware I read the BBM.

So, I look at the things I have going for me. I’m a good looking guy, people love me, I have a nice body :smiley:, six pack of steal, and I’m very easy going. The girl knows that I can get a girl if I want one (I actually believe a possible issue she may have is that I have a lot of beautiful female friends).

So, I’m going to take what I know, and run with it. I’m going to make her unimportant unless she comes out and seeks me. And a phone call won’t cut it b/c I’m not responding to her phone calls. She knows where I live.

14

sike! I texted her. told her what you told me to tell her word4word.

15

She told me she wasn’t mad at me and called me a weirdo, I told her I was normal, she was the one who was weird and her ass woke me up this morning, I asked her if she went out tonight, she told me where, and then I told her, ‘look, real reason I texted why is our friend acting so nasty to everyone lately?’ she said she hasn’t spoken to her in a while so she doesnt know, and then i basically just said “oh ok,” and now it looks like shes talking to someone (i’m assuming our friend).

not a tone of a girl that wants to get lucky with me. but also, its 1AM… and shes probably drunk…

16

LOL! No! You had it going good! Don’t deflect! lol!

Ok. Tease 101. You’ll find the same thing even wit pickup artists… don’t ask me why but taking shots at girls get their attention… if you do it right and don’t overdue it. I like it. You called her a weirdo back. Looks like you got her attention. I think the text did, too. Being called a wierdo is actually a good thing. Don’t ask me way (again)… but it’s almost like getting a pet name or something in a weird way. If you haven’t done anything actually weird… just think of how it would come out. One of those sheepish playful “weirdo” with a bit of an eye roll and a smile. :wink:

So she butt dialed you this morning or actually dialed/txted you this morning on purpose? If it was purposeful that’s a good sign which means your teasing/poking got her attention. (In fact, even the buttdial could be a shy deflection to the act that she felt dumb for trying when you didn’t answer your phone and was trying to cover it up.) It’s like you are building up some rapport and tension. But then you deflected it to her friend. “The reason wasn’t that I might be interested in catch up with you or really cared if or why you were too busy for me lately. It was because I was really wonder what was up with your friend. I’m more interested in her than you.” That’s how that deflection reads. I’d say that kinda crushes your legwork a bit.

Maybe she was waiting to see before she moved back to “our friend” but that “clear signal” of disinterest possibly capped it for her. Shrugs I imagine you could probably still get her… but playing aloof when you haven’t made any actual move or signalled any interest is doubtfully going to have her coming to you.

Let’s review.

She’s a princess? The prince sweeps the princess off her feet.

She’s made/you’ve had opportunities to make your move? No move was made. Signal the disinterest? What would you think in her shoes?

You have lots of beautiful friends that are girls? You not making any moves probably means that you aren’t interested in her like that. After all, you’ve got all these other beautiful women around you. Why would she want to take a chance and get herself hurt or look stupid when you don’t seem to really be likely to care/accept?

She’s possibly back talking with “our friend”? He’s safe. She already at least knows that he likes her. He might suck but at least she knows she won’t have to deal with the fear of rejection or sit there wondering what wrong with her/way he won’t make a move.

Those are my thoughts on the latest at least. I’m no expert of no female psych (I don’t think most females even are :wink: )… but those are the possible things that I could see going through her head at this point. Is it too late? Do you really care? Are you still interested in talking to her?

I don’t know how seriously she’s possibly talking with this other guy. I’m guessing if you wanted to you could hit her up out of the blue and find some excuse to hang with her. Or if you actually spent enough time to know some of the things you like… maybe say that you are headed to whatever and see if she wants to come along. She may blow you off or honestly be busy (sounds like she’s a busy girl at times) but if she’s free and interested she might be game. You can catch up with her and chat. Find out exactly what the bf/dating/etc. status is possibly if you do it slickly. What you been up to lately? What’s new? I heard blah blah blah… maybe…

After the initial conversation you could hang out more or elsewhere or be spontaneous (she sounds like the type) and have some fun. Invading personal space early on even if just momentary is a good thing if successful, mind you.

But at any rate… if this were to progress and say at some point now or in the future you two went out to the movies or even just had a few drinks and watched a movies at her or your place, closing is going to come up. The easy way to do it? I’d say simple throwing your arm over. If you are timid to do that… maybe ask for permission. Maybe a “do you care?” Suggest that, “I’ve found it is just a way better and more comfortable way to watch a movie.” I don’t know what girl that actually is interested would turn you down. It just doesn’t happen at least 90% of the time. If the girl does, you can make her feel dumb (IN A NONE MEAN WAY) or kind spin the guilt trip angle. Maybe shift that body away in a bit of a pouty, arms folded, puppy dog way. There’s plenty of counter responses you could take her.

But more than likely, she won’t have a problem with it (unless she’s just not attracted to you that way or there’s another dude in the mix). The key to this is that you are establishing a new boundary. Once you break that space barrier, every time after that point that barrier no longer exists. You don’t have to close. Start cuddling to a movie regularly (or whenever you watch one with her) and either she’ll close or the close will just happen naturally.

Where you go from there is up to you. But that’s the most effective thing that I’ve found. Establishing new physical boundaries is the smartest way to get to the close. There is no need to rush it. In fact, since you have nomes, you might as well not. Getting in close will simply give them an even better chance to work their full magic at close range. Waiting to close builds anticipation and lets it feel natural instead of rushed or forced. It just will feel more “right,” as they would say. :wink:

Again. Things I’ve found. My opinions. Could be off-base. Not there to see all this or the people involved. But those are my thoughts. shrugs Take um or leave um. :stuck_out_tongue: