Date Night - Long Time Coming

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

So, I have a date the day after V-Day with a girl that I pretty much have been chasing since December 2012.

To make a LONG story short, we met in Dec. 2012 at college, I graduated, we spoke for hours everyday for 2 months. February 2, 2013, she invited me to her dorm room where I had her naked on top of me but said ‘no’ to sex b/c I REALLY liked her and, history shows, sex too early with me never goes down well, I go abroad for 4 months, a month into the trip she tells me she doesn’t want a relationship with me and we aren’t compatible.

After 5 months of no talking, she starts tweeting at me and talking to me VERY, VERY scarcely. Usually arguing (that was sort of the nature of our relationship, we both like the banter).

I go visit college, see her at local bar, both of us are drunk, I go and talk to her, she’s snarky to me, friends separate us. Next day, she messages me and apologizes. We start talking again, both of us VERY guarded.

We are supposed to go to do something together (in context of “just friends”), but she gets a concussion the day before. I go hang out with her in her dorm. Nothing happens. We reschedule.

I hang out with her a couple of days before we are supposed to go out again. I am wearing:
4 sprays P83
2 sprays AMMO
2 sprays IH x2

She made it a POINT for me to know I was friend-zoned. I called her a day before we are supposed to go out and tell her it’s not going to happen. She is obviously upset. I tell her I like her, and I can’t hang out with her unless it’s in the context of a date because “frankly, I want to have sex with you.” She understands.

We don’t talk for about a month.

Then she starts talking to me and she compliments me for always being so honest and upfront with her, yadda yadda. We get closer.

She goes on a trip abroad for a month. During the trip, she messages me about how “everyone looks just like you” and “you’d fit in SO well here.” I tell her we should travel together, she seems like she’s on board.

I told her how I wanted to go to this wolf reservation. She wants to come with. Her exact words were “PICK ME PICK ME.” It’s a date (I called it a date and she said “you’re on”).

My question is, what should I wear? In the past, I’ve been pretty obvious and aggressive with her, how much should I tone that down? (I’ve read to make physical contact, but when does it become too much physical contact)?

For all the annoying ones that might ask, yes, I am talking to other girls, it’s just this one is my #1. Also, yes, I will be disappointed if it doesn’t work out, but I’m always prepared to drop her, if necessary.

2

I’m not a relationship expert by any means. It would seem like you two compliment each other very well. With the type of banter you have going back and forth, it looks like both of you are into each other, but guarded quite well. The arguing looks to me like she feels quite an emotional connection with you, otherwise she probably wouldn’t be so emotionally charged with the banter.

Since the mix you mentioned wearing before seemed to elicit an instant friendzone, I’m thinking the nols in IH and Ammo, then magnified with the p83 contributed somewhat to that. Some more experienced phero users should chime in if I’m close to correct or not. For a different approach, myself and wildflower have been singing the praises of mx353 (mx292) here lately. It would probably be worth your time to at least try it out. Magic stuff, both social and sexual. It has been very consistent for me.

With what you currently have, I’m thinking maybe a mix including A314, IS, P83. Then as the sexual tension builds, maybe a shot of TUTH. Maybe pago or still18 could chime in and put together an option for you as well.

I definitely think the mix needs to be more overtly sexual this time, since that seems to be in alignment with you and your situation, and that synergy will make the mix much more effective, I’m betting.

3

Hi there, Lakerman!

I’d be cautious about this. The phrase “it’s a date” is usually figurative, it’s not a way to make it solidly understood that you are on a for-real romantic date. I suggest some more straight-talk and make sure she understands that you are considering this to be a date-date.

The use of that phrase is not the only reason I’m advising caution. You’ve made your intentions very clear to her, and then she ditched you for a month. When you didn’t want to sleep with her yet because you didn’t want to mess things up, she snubbed you and acted passive-aggressively rather than respecting your wish to do right by her. She specifically friend-zoned you, fully aware of your intentions, and yet still wants attention from you.

I’m sorry to say, but there is something that girls often do when they don’t have a serious relationship in their life. They get their emotional fulfillment and affirmation from guys that they KNOW have a thing for them, yet they have no desire to be with. It’s a pseudo-relationship: they get their emotional needs met without a commitment. Like the emotional version of “friends with benefits”. When a guy doesn’t realize this is happening and holds out hope that he’s getting somewhere, he usually gets strung along and hurt in the end. I’m not saying that she is definitely doing this, but I would be really surprised if she wasn’t. Please don’t get hurt.

4

Yeah I’m wrestling with this.

There’s a 45 year old woman that I’ve befriended who I find is very similar to her (like a 24 years older version of her). She thinks everything is going well, this girl just is completely lost when it comes to relationships, but wants me to still remain guarded.

Some nights she’ll message me on Facebook (our primary means of communication) at 2 or 3 AM just saying “ugh I’m bored,” I’ll read it, then I just won’t respond. I only talk to her when I want to talk to her.

The girl is not very ‘girly,’ and she is VERY lost when it comes to relationships. She admits this herself. She even claims to have attachment disorders.

Lately, she has been sending me ‘online IOIs,’ but then will do something to sort of guard herself.

For example, I mention to my parents (we’re Hispanic) how my friend is in Costa Rica and tells me that “everyone looks like me,” and they said “a girl who thinks everyone looks like you? She likes you…”

Or recently, we were talking about relationships in terms of a car metaphor. She stopped the metaphor because it “could get mixed/dangerous quickly.” She told me she thinks her trip to CR really helped her see everything in a new late, and she is able to get over all the BS now. I told her “you have all the answers in you, you just have to quiet the noise, and find it within yourself. I know you’ll be great and you’ll be able to figure things out. I just feel it.”

Her response was: “I NEVER EVER EVER send emoticons, but I feel obligated to: <3 thank you.”

Then a couple of days later, I told her that I saw the movie “Her,” and how I think she’d like it because it really relates to her thesis research. She says, “already on my list! Thanks!”

No more than 2 days later, she posts as a status on FB: “Does anybody have a working link for the movie “Her?””

She CLEARLY saw I was online, but didn’t ask me. This is her guarding herself. I didn’t respond. There’s a guy that I know she had a thing for last summer (lives 8 hours away from her – not a worry) that likes a lot of her stuff on Facebook. I NEVER, EVER do.

She leaves me very subtle clues. She doesn’t put any of her CR pictures online because before she left I told her that I wanted to see them all. I wanted to join Teach for America, she told me she was considering it too. She plays silly games like the one previously mentioned (I don’t fall for ANY of them). I’m almost AFRAID to ask her if it’s going to be a date because I feel as if it’s understood, and me reaffirming would be considered “needy.”

The whole thing is a mess, but she’s worth the mess. I know she has never been in a serious relationship, I know that she can get A LOT of guys if she wanted (I actually have seen guys hit on her at bars), but she’s incapable of having sex w/o some sort of emotional attachment.

Honestly, yes, we complement each other INCREDIBLY well, are really perfect for each other, I see it, but I don’t know if she does. I’m considering if I get a whiff of “friendzone” on our way to our date, that I’m taking the next exit back home.

5

Honestly, “completely lost” is the normal state of being at 21.

Being “girly” has nothing to do with acting and thinking in ways that are commonly female. I’m speaking from experience because I used to do that EXACT “emotional string-along” thing I just described. I’ve never been girly. It took a lot of growing up before I realized how I was hurting people and I made the decision to change my ways. Playing games is a sign of emotional immaturity, and it is disrespectful to the person they’re aimed at.

Please forgive my candor, but it sounds like she is keeping you exactly where she wants you. Giving you enough attention to keep you focused on her, but stopping you if you get close enough to require that she give back.

6

" she is VERY lost when it comes to relationships. She admits this herself. She even claims to have attachment disorders."

:confused: Ummmm…this sentence just JUMPED OUT at me with prolific meaning; she sounds like a cold-coquette with “attachment disorders” to boot :open_mouth:

Not the sort of gal that gives 110% of herself to a loving relationship I’d guess. Do you think you deserve better emotionally? Personally I’d friend-zone her & open my heart/mind to a lady who is actually capable of returning my love. Can mones compensate for a DSM V disorder or two?

Best wishes Laker, just sayin :slight_smile:

7

If it were really understood, then you wouldn’t feel afraid or conflicted. “Understood” is rarely associated with “unspoken”. Communication is never needy. On the contrary, it’s necessary in order to avoid embarrassing misunderstandings and to stop “games” in their tracks. Communicating can feel awkward if you’re not used to it, but it is seriously the most important skill to develop in life.

8

I think the Monday before (5 days from now), I’m going to drop a “hey! So I’ll pick you up at 5 on Saturday?” line to her.

She’s back at school, and we’re at a very weird phase. We don’t talk much, but I think that’s OK. Last week, we spoke on Sunday, and then she messaged me on Friday. I’m waiting for her to say something to me. Usually, she initiates the convos (as of late).

9

I must say that I’m completely with MissD on this - Huge clanging alarm bells from this one. Proceed with caution and a healthy amount of “fuck-you” here - Literally and figuratively!

And women sending these kinds of mixed signal can be very attractive - Potential disorder or not, you need to be aware of what these tactics can do to you and keep yourself in clear perspective!

10

No they can’t!

However, they can make life very interesting in a car crash/rollercoaster sort of way and if you get the right mones, mood and get the woman concerned on a stong positive-feelings/emotion-rush, things can get very very wild indeed.

11

Do not ever get taken-in by this one - every woman I’ve ever known to spout this particular line has been lying through their teeth!

And I’ve been on both sides of this fence for this over the years - as the poor sod being strung-along on the promise of something “perfect” and as the non-serious but regular shag of someone who doesn’t consider non-committed sex as sex at all!

And another thing I’ve learned here is the ability some women have to establish and break an “emotional attachment” in just as long as it takes to get exactly the sort of sex they want, rationalise it away, end things and then look to re-establish the “connection” whenever it suits them.

Which is all fine if you are in control of yourself enough to recognise it for what it is and there is nobody else in the picture getting hurt - and there often is. Don’t assume you are the only guy getting the treatment from her - there are often several in a holding pattern!

12

I’ve been on and off this website for years, and you seem to have been here FOREVER.

So, I’m going to ask you, in my shoes, what would you do? Keep in mind she and I have a date the day after Valentine’s Day, and I know for a fact she isn’t a girl who “dates.”

13

I feel the best thing Lakerman did was to NOT shag this land mine, he’d be paying a heavy emotional toll right now if he had. She knows that he has One-itis over her & she is running game on him like the Seahawks did to Denver :frowning: Everything i read in his very descriptive posts scares the shit out of me; frankly I would just lick my wounds & then get on with my mones & attraction tactics & find a woman to make me forget all about this one!

I’m on your side Lakerman, believe it or not. I’ve seen the damage that girls like this can do, I’d give her just about a month or two before you realize you’ve bit off more than you can chew. These skirts always seem to carry the Bedroom Blues :frowning::angry:

14

And that itself should tell you something profound! :wink:

OK, so long as you are well aware she’s a potential hand grenade and ready to keep control of any emotional upheaval she may cause as no matter how ideal she seems, the chances of your having a stable/successful relationship with her are slim, then I’d tend to go-in with something pretty extreme and stop pussyfooting.

You know what she likes, so its up to you if you go social/sexy, or status/sexual - And just have one hell of a time, look to nothing more than the moment, stir-up every emotion you you can muster in her (which is no more than she’s doing to you already) - then take the mix very sexual indeed (ie TUTH) and push-it. It will then either be all-on or all-off and if its the latter, you walk away there and then.

If you have any cops, this is one situation where I’d say they are ideal. IME, its amazing what can happen to a woman like this when they get the hint of another woman on-you. Very often they will suddenly find you very sexual after all. :slight_smile:

15

I’ve been through a few of these women - I tend to be a bit more bloody-minded about them now and just go by the feelings that stir in moment.

But yes, your point is equally valid - If Lakerman is in any way likely to get wrung-out by her, then he should just have a pleasant “date” and look elsewhere.

16

Mobo, u & I are a BIT OLDER (LOL) than our friend Lakerman & have a different perspective now that comes from having been on the receiving end of these particular women’s barbed whips, truth be told we actually kind of liked it, but I’ll bet YOU never fell in love with a ‘hand grenade’, you fell in lust, & as long as that dame delivers right on time, then it’s all good, but I was never one to jump through flaming hoops just for the ‘possibility’ of raunchy sex with dangling jangling strings attached. Unfortunately our bro Lakerman has some deep feelings & I feel unrealistic hopes for this ‘possibility’ & that could do him some damage but he’s a big boy & can just dust hisself off after employing ample TUTH to attempt to seal the deal. If that doesnt work then there HAS to be a point where a self respecting stud just gets up & walks away…NEXT!! :stuck_out_tongue::smiley:

17

@mobocaster
@Roy Dillon

Thanks guys! SO very helpful.

I think I’m still going to go through with the date (I think that’s what you guys are advising), see what happens, and if it ends and I’m not satisfied with how it ended, throw up the deuces and move on.

I really do think this girl is different. I know how cliche and idealistic that sounds, but she REALLY isn’t like any girl I’ve met. I wish I had the words to describe that without sounding like a guy who is putting a girl on a pedestal, but I don’t. The second we met, I was actually dating another girl, and I remember I felt as if something inside of me exploded. I left the room, came back, and repeated the EXACT thing she JUST said. It’s as if we are on the same page, same word, same everything…when things are going well.

When we were talking for a while (right before she tried to have sex with me), she asked me what I thought was an ideal relationship (and my ideal relationship is COMPLETELY non-traditional). Her response was “whoa…you just described MY perfect relationship.”

Things are weird with her. Like it scares me. We have EVERYTHING in common (and it goes deeper than “favorite movies” or “favorite music,” our ideologies, morals, dreams and ambitions are very, VERY similar), but yet we are different enough to keep things interesting (she comes from a low-income, Jewish household, I come from a high-income Hispanic household).

Even when we were FIGHTING she told me she thought it was weird how much we just get each other.

Rereading this, I know I sound like a hopeless, idealistic romantic, but I just can’t find the words to describe it.

It’s all very exciting and frightening. I would be SO disappointed if it doesn’t work out next Saturday, but I feel as if it will. But if it doesn’t, I will walk away. I’ll be disappointed in her, more than anything, but I will walk away and won’t blame her for any of it.

18

Lol, you guys are fantastic!

Bud, what you’re describing is a chameleon. Girls can be a lot more skilled at perception and emotional manipulation than men give them credit for. What a chameleon does is take your temperature (feel out where you are and what you want) and then match you. It makes you feel like you’ve found “the one”, and your “soul mate”. But trust me, a chameleon knows she has this skill and uses it on others, too. She knows just the right moments to drop bombs so that they are the most effective (such as when you are fighting, and emotions are high). If she truly felt a once-in-a-lifetime connection like you do, she wouldn’t leave you in the dust for months at a time.

19

In all fairness (not trying to be argumentative, but still), the first 5 month break was instilled by me. I deleted her from social networking sites. She actually responded to me in a forum we are both a part of, and started Favoriting and arguing with me over Twitter.

The second “1 month” break was after I told her I think we should go our separate ways, and she basically said, “OK, I won’t bother you,” but one drunk night, she messaged me about how miserable she was at school. I didn’t act as a shoulder to lean on, per se, but I sort of listened to what she had to say.

I even asked her for advice about another girl that I had a small-time crush on, and I think that threw her off BIG time.

Also, this idea of ‘chameleon’ upsets me, but I don’t for a second doubt it’s truth. How does one know when a girl is being genuine then?

20

Fuck, I could have written that, more or less word for word - a few years longer ago than I’d care to remember.

The upshot was seven years of emotional heaven and hell. Total rollercoaster/train-wreck of a relationship that left me totally adrift for how I could relate/respond to women and cope in a normal relationship. It took a very long and painful time to get my head straight again after her.

Be very careful of any potential partner who mirrors you so closely and seems to have this “amazing” kind of connection. Its seldom what it seems and as usual, MissD is spot-on.

And six years of later, we happened on each other by chance and it nearly all happened again. Only this time, I knew to trust myself and my misgivings better and was ready and able to bail when the initial blissful “honeymoon period” came to an end about eighteen months later.