…cat string theory… let her play with your string every now and then… but wiggle it… she will like that…
that sounds so dirty…
Avoid the friend zone? Some of my thoughts.
Be realistic
Beauty and the Beast is not something you can model your social life on. Several factors will determine compatibility, but most people will know if that special him/her are in their league, close to it or just way out of range. Even if they are in the same league or close, not everyone works. But these are guidelines, not rules. If one is an overweight goth slacker and the other is an overachieving model type that is physical perfection, maybe not such a good match. If you aren’t good at self-evaluating, ask a trusted friend, “hey, do I have a shot?”. I have been attracted to women that I thought were beyond reach and succeeded and I’ve been rejected by women that I thought were mine for the asking. You really never know, but be honest with yourself to start.
Stand your ground
You are interacting and doing social things with a girl you like and want to pursue romantically, make your intentions clear (or at least NOT FRIENDS) and in most cases it is better not to do things under false presences ’ as a friend" or you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you come in as a friend and think you are going to change things, you are playing a low percentage game. If you are rejected as someone they are interested in, then it is time to see the next step.
Know when to move on
If a girl isn’t interested or interested enough, throw some economics/human nature at her.
Her: “Oh that Vaccine, he’s nice, but…”
Vaccine: Hmm. Her pot isn’t exactly boiling for me, so adios!
exit Vaccine
[Meanwhile, with Vaccine gone human nature kicks in, as does Economics]
Her: Where’d Vaccine go? I miss him. I want to spend time with him.
(Economics: The scarcer something is, the higher its value)
(Human Nature: Give her the gift of missing you. If you are always there, there is no challenge, no value, no mystery)
If that works, take it from there. If it doesn’t, well, you’ve made yourself scarce and that’s akin to being gone, so keep on that track and move on.
Final Thoughts
The friend zone contains only one kind of friend, a friend that wants to be romantic. It is a cage for those people that we do not want to be romantic with ever but we just don’t want to say, “that’s never going to happen” for our reasons, some decent, others cruel.
I write this after watching a “nice guy” do everything wrong for months and I felt for him. He just wasted his time, money and self-respect. It was PAINFUL to watch. We all wanted him to move on, all the girls though he was a “great guy”, but he just kept fooling himself that:
a) he had a shot ( he just didn’t)
b) sending flowers and buying drinks would change things
c) offering to do anything she asked would make her change her mind - nope, not at all.
This is a bad thing for guys, it is demoralizing to many, removes your attention to other girls that might be receptive to you, wastes your time/money/effort and others around see you as that kind of guy. It is poison. Don’t do it. If you don’t, everyone will be happier for it.
Very Last Thought
There can be may reasons why someone may not be open to your advances. To raise the odds, take control over whatever you can and that will put you in a better position. Here are a few things you can control:
Be yourself.
If you put on an act, you won’t be able to/want to sustain it.
Take care of yourself.
Hygiene is paramount. Dress/style yourself for who you are, but look your best. Exercise is important. Everyone likes someone that is in shape. People with great physiques will be seen as attractive, though they might not actually have an attractive face. We’ve all seen people that wouldn’t be attractive if they weren’t in good shape, as well as seeing that person that would be very attractive if they lost xxxx pounds. Present your best physical self you can.
Don’t be dull
Have some interests, have something to say, be well read or up on current events. If all you do is collect comic books, that might not be the best topic of interest for most girls. It is helpful to have something in common or something interesting to discuss.
I hope this is of some value to people out there and it keeps you out of the friend zone.
…logical
This used to be my problem too. I guess it was a confidence thing - confidence was definitely something I needed to work on, and once I started working on it, my success went through the roof (this was - partly - coupled with me discovering Androtics) what a difference not even two years can make.
What didn’t help me personally was all the pickup material I read giving vague, general and often cryptic advice: show less interest and attention, don’t be needy, give her the gift of missing you, let her chase, etc, etc. What I didn’t realise is that I was already showing too little interest - I wasn’t turning up with any bait, and after reading PUA material I wasn’t even turning up with a fishing rod. PUA material has helped me a lot, but it took me a long time to internalise it and really get it. I got worse before I got better - I did pretty much instantly remove a lot of self defeating behaviour and gain a basic understanding of female psychology however, so PUA material is something I’d recommend but be weary of how you interpret it at first.
Basically to avoid the friend zone (sorry, can’t help with escaping it) when you first meet a girl show her (don’t tell her) that you are interested in her, also demonstrate that you are a friendly enough guy (smile). Eventually during an interaction you have to qualify, in fact I find you have to repeatedly qualify all the way until the start of a relationship – this may sound paradoxical when compared to the ‘baiting’ theory, but really when done correctly, it is baiting. You state what you like about the person and then return to whatever you were talking about before. The guy who finds himself in the friendzone is probably either doing too much qualifying or none at all (as it was in my case), it’s a balancing act – qualifying is baiting.
This might help makes things a little clearer: Under Qualified
My final tip is pheromone related and is a testament to how much they can enhance how you are perceived (90/10 
).When wearing something like Ammo a lot of girls will have a harder time believing that you are interested in her, consequently you may have to bait more than usual, demonstrate more interest - but still not too much. The reason for this - I think - is because a lot of girls perceive you as more being more attractive, higher value, than they perceive themselves to be (even the beautiful, high self esteem girls) Ammo really does seem to make you very attractive in the eyes of a lot of girls, so all I can say is qualify and Kino (Kino could also be considered baiting and qualifying)
Ok, life long experience here. Never been in the friend zone…ever 
Relates somewhat to being an alpha, but not quite.
Two easy ideas:
Say what you mean, mean what you say. If you can’t do that, ignore them. If it makes you uncomfortable, you don’t actually like the person. There’s no logic to it, if you feel uncomfortable approaching someone, its gonna make them uncomfortable too. I know, this is totally not what conventional logic says, but this ain’t logic, this is just being you. Go for what you want…they may be a bit on the big side, or pimply, or has a big nose,(edit:or has kids lol) but that is who you want so accept that, because that is the only way to grow, and that person will grow with you. Besides, dating is about fun and personal growth, not long term comittment…until further notice. like you can’t let someone go and end up getting married.
Notion two…personal growth. You can’t get what you want in life without growth. Physical prowess, mental power, spiritual contact, social sensitivity. This is where you ditch your safety zone and go for it. Confidence and oppurtunity with the opposite sex and dating will expand commensurately without any effort in that department.
Thats it…“try” with yourself, “do” with others. Trying yourself gives you that inner locus and will improve your being over time. Trying with others gives a helpless outer locus, reinforces desperation, and all sorts of bad things.
So, interestingly enough, the best way to stay out of the friend zone is to ignore girls and stick with meditating on sudoku puzzles while on a treadmill with a friend.
thanks everyone!
a lot of pretty good stuff to look into!
the probem i have also is knowing if they are interested in me and when to make the “MOVE”. im pretty good at the cocky funny stuff and flirting already and not overdoing it, but if anyone has more ideas/tips on that then cool. i have a problem of when to ask for a date/number etc.. im just not sure of when the time is apropriate.im not just gonna go up and ask cause that just seems wrong to me and seems to give an ultimatum to the girl and put them off. ive seen those pick up artist shows and tried to implement some of the strategies but never can get the courage up to ask for the number etc.. anybody have some good examples of indicators of interest that women do other than the basics of hair pulling etc.?? cause if i feel theres no interest from them and i dont notice any even if they are interested i tend to just give up or move on. i just cant recognise if they are interested,shy or totaly plain uninterested in me ..
pheromones have helped me be more outgoing and relaxed more than i used to be with women ,but i still kinda struggle…thanks for all the great advice everyone!!
keep it coming!
Jasmin started an awesome thread in the MEN’s Pheromone Advice, Tricks and Tips forum. How to Tell a Woman is Interested In You -- The Master "Indicators of Interest List"
I thought myself pretty good at picking up IOI’s from the ladies, but there were a few throughout the thread that I didn’t realize.
Knowing when to make the move is a tricky thing. Too early without enough intel, and you’re just another guy hitting on her. Wait too long and it’s death via the friends box. Just be yourself, and keep working on your confidence. Then when you notice a few IOI’s and you’ve got a on few secret sprays there won’t be any trouble saying, “So when are you going to let me take you to dinner…”
You have to take a risk and ask. The best thing is to use what is natural to you. You can’t expect what works for some to work for you, there is no one-size-fits-all for an approach. Even for the same person. I mean that I might have a different method depending up the girl I am talking to. I have met women that are easy going and I just come out and say something like, " I enjoy your company and I want to take you out next week". I stop and watch her reaction. In my dating life, that works very well for me. I have had girls decline, but most everyone said yes. Other times I am funny and with the right girl I might do something like this: (looking at her with suspicion and fake disgust) “No.. I will not take you to sushi at 8PM on Wednesday!” You get the idea. I do not do that with a lot of girls and I haven’t used that in a long time (fresh breakup) and when I do it is because it fits the situation for ME.
It takes guts to make yourself vulnerable to being rejected. If you don’t get rejected, then you aren’t asking enough girls out is what we used to say. The point is everyone will have someone say no. Just move on.
The best advise in figuring out what to say is that even if you are repeating someone else’s game, at least make it seem natural for you. Otherwise you sound like the MOVIEPHONE guy. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO OUT WITH ME, PRESS ONE… It will sound canned and you will seem insincere.
Oh, and this is just my two cents. I bet there are guys that use inane and vapid lines that work just as well for them. I’m with dialate, with one difference, I’ve never been in the friend zone in my adult life. If I want something more and it isn’t happening, I don’t take the title of “friend” and hope for her to come around, I move on.
Clarification: FWB is not the friend zone. Girls in the past have said, “oh, we are just friends” of me, but we were intimate. Being “just friends” with a girl means that you are just like her other girl friends, except you don’t have a vagina.
cool stuff guys! anyone have good pick up lines i can use that dont sound corney? thanks!!
High risk/Fun pickup lines for easy girls
“Nice tits, wanna fuck?” (classic)
“Yeah I’m a referee. I ain’t got no stripes but I can make that pussy whistle” (might work on a black girl)
“Lets go, this dick ain’t gonna suck itself”
“Hi I’m a oceanographer, and its time to free willy”
“I’m horny.” (matter of factly…you’d be surprised how well this works)
Those are funny. Yeah, high risk indeed. The straight forward can work, but come on, that’s a bit advanced. Don’t go throwing that stuff to him! He’ll get slapped.
Nice shoes, want a fuck?
you must have a mirror in your pants because i can see myself in there
lol theres sum cracker pick uplines out there! 
ive never been brave enuff to try any of these myself hehe
What’s that adage about the difference between bravery and stupidity?
hmmm very true! VERY TRUE
you need to be more sexually aggressive and state your intentions but in a not so serious way. More of a push pull, telling her why you like her but taking it away by saying something that she isnt. Creates confusion and intrigue
Its not about bravery or stupidity, if you feel like you can get away with it do it, as long as you’re having fun
Not for you or me, but if someone is asking these kinds of questions, I suspect it is.
Not everyone is socially aware to the same degree. What you can pull off will depend on far to many factors to list.
I get the sense that whatever you carry off, it is in your nature and would seem natural and appropriate, while those reading the suggestions do not have the same nature and can’t pull it off the same way.
I agree about having fun.
but baby steps..
Dialate, I wanna hear more about the “I’m horny” and how/when that’s done and what results you have seen.
I haven’t read the other posts… have not got the time right this minute… but what I do to avoid the friend zone is simply to make it impossible for her to treat me like “just a friend”. I do what friends would not. I’m forward about being interested in/aroused by her and I flat out tell her I do not want to be just her friend. It’s pretty simple, really.
“Look, I don’t want to be just your friend, so if that’s all you want, I’ll have to decline the offer. I want to see you and be more than your friend. We can be friends too, but I am primarily interested in being more than friends. Just friends isn’t going to work for me.”
If course I don’t make her think all I want is sex… unless, of course, all I want is sex! Which is pretty rare, because I discovered a long time ago that “just sex” is worse than “just friends” for me. I tend to want a relationship of some sort if I’m thinking sex.
But seriously, it’s pretty easy to avoid the friend zone. Just tell her what you do and do not want, straight up, with no apologies. If all she wants is friends, and you want to be bf/gf or lovers or whatever, then just say it’s not gonna work for you and be on your way.
That is a very valid point. Why should we lie to a girl by saying “Yea we can be friends”, when both know you see her more than that. Just be straight forward. Besides, girls like it when a guy is straightforward on his intentions. This is one thing Im beginning to see in most of my interactions.