Congruence? What's That?

What is congruency? We talk about this alot but do we really do a good job of explaining it to a newbie? Do we really understand what goes into congruency ourselves? I looked up an array of definitions to find one that matched my idea of congruent/congruous/congruence. There is the purely mathematical “congruent figures have the exact same size and shape”. Then there is the more legalizish “Congruence is the degree of match between two codes”. My favorite is “Agreement of character (parameter)”.

Before I lay out my thoughts, let me invite anyone who wishes to pick this apart, add their opinions, or otherwise improve it. I know that’s what a forum is all about but what I am hoping for here is that we can somehow distill this subject down into some quick advisory points for newcomers that go beyond our normal advice of “be congruent with your signature and you’ll get better results.”

I see several areas (or characters/parameters) that should have a degree of agreement. The closer they are in agreement the better pheromones work.

1.)Persona: this is the person wearing the pheromones, physical appearance, personality, tone of voice, bearing, manners, wardrobe, style the whole works. The more of ones self that can be brought into agreement with the person’s “ideal” of him/herself the better. The pheromones worn should then match the persona as a whole. I think this is what we mean most of the time when we say “be congruent”.

2.)Target: This is the person or group the pheromone wearer wants to interact with. Both the persona and the pheromones worn have to take into account the traits of the target.

3.)Task: The interaction itself needs to match the target, the persona, and the pheromones.

4.)Environment: Consider the difference of a big gregarious guy wearing 5 sprays of ammo to a smoky packed nightclub and the same guy wearing 5 sprays of ammo in a small car with his girlfriend on a warm afternoon. This is probably more a matter of amount than type.

5.) The pheromones themselves. They need to work together and work with the other 4 parameters.

This is where I’m at in thinking about this. Help me out. Does this cover the parameters? Can it be simplified? You younger guys GQ, Nbully ect how do we put this across in a way that applies and appeals to a college freshman :cool: . Deep thinkers, come on sigma, visionary pull this apart put it back together :confused: . Communicators Madison Tate, Mark-in-Dallas gimme some words that bring this home :smiley: . Men of experience and wisdom Gegogi, Bosshank, Gone with the Wind, weigh in with sagacity :wink: . Ladies, Bella, Tisha, Kitten what’s your take, how does it apply to the fairer sex :slight_smile: .

I put out some names not to leave anyone out but for the sake of example and challenge. The challenge applies to everybody who reads this. Think on this subject for a day or a week and put your insight up here. It’s a big subject.

Let’s put some meat on this bone we toss around. It will help us and it will help those we are welcoming daily to this world.

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Just a little thought about 1)

When we are not congruent with ourselves, we are kind of not being ourselves… like trying to be something you aren’t.. it ends up being fake.

I think Pheromones can help you improve yourself to become what you want to be in the long run, keeping congruent on the way.

Excellant post renny :slight_smile: Reps and I am making it a sticky because its a word used alot here in the forum and new people need to understand how it allpies to wearing there mone products. :wink:

Tisha

Great post Renny! I have always wondered if congruency is really necessary as sometimes I see results reinforcing that belief and sometimes conflicting with that belief.

There are lot of reports on the forum where it seems that even when you are dressed down but wearing a pheromone that communicates high status, you might start getting complements regarding your refined dressing. So it seems that in these cases pheromone message trumped the visual message and we can argue that congruence wasn’t necessary. There are hundreds of similar examples.

In other examples we have someone wearing a fun gregarious pheromone and then standing in a corner with a scowl (due to some personal reasons or just their serious nature) and then saying people were not being social with them. This is clearly a case where visual presentation trumped the pheromone message. There are hundreds of examples for this scenario as well.

Presenting our best foot forward in appearance (body language, clothes, hygeine etc.) and manners (behavior, language etc.) definitely helps in reaping most positives of pheromone use.

We also need to be conscious of the fact that pheromones affect the wearer as well so we need to have very good control of our appearance and manners and the ability to block the self effects, so, for example, even when wearing Instant Jerk we are not behaving like a jerk and just coming across as a high on testosterone super confident guy who gets lots of women!

Where does that leave us on the question of congruence…

I feel there is a threshold or rather a balance of visual and pheromonal vibe where one vibe might dominate another and override the target’s judgement about the person.

Hi Renny, excellent post you have there.

Just a few of my own thoughts on the matter. Regarding Persona when we often say act congruent, we seem to tell the newbie to go for the stereotypical Alpha male attitude. I honestly dont think this is correct. Alpha males are as varied as people themselves, you dont need to walk around with your chest puffed up and act like man-god. Being congruent in this sense can mean being a quietly confident person, being your own alpha male. The one that you can be and not the one you have to pretend to be. I think this allows the user to be more natural and to achieve something genuine and worthwhile within themselves.

The other three points I agree with whole-heartedly and if I come up with some points regarding them, I’ll put in my 2 cents :slight_smile:

One other point, consistency seems to be a big factor at least with me anyhow. People have to keep the interactions consistant, for example, imagine you meet a girl, give off a perfect vibe that suits you and you hit a milestone, whether its making out, having sex etc, you lose the vibe or your nerves go, kinda like reverting back to your usual self (has happened to me once or twice when I started out). This will leave people thinking your fake. Hence why its essential when you become one with your ‘Alpha-ness’ (I made up that term!:roll_eyes:) its natural and not something you’ve read in a book. In the long term it’ll be easier to maintain and you wont have to keep up a pretence since eventually you’ll become that person. Its more like self-development rather than a short term, unworkable solution. And most importantly of all, you’ll be consistant in the long run!!

Anyhoo, those are my thoughts, great post. Rep points to you!

Rattle

Ok I am going to weigh in on what congruent means to me in the phero world. I wanted to think on it a while first LOL.

Basically it matching your actions to the signal your sending out phermonally.

I have noticed and I am sure I am not the only person who has, that in life the image you project with your body stance, appearance, actions helps to convey who you are to the world around you. pheromones also can help convey who you are by sending a signal picked up by others and delivered to the brain without them being conscious of how the signal is delivered.

When you wear pheromones, for them to work to your best advantage you need to act or be congruent with the signal your sending. If you dont it causes confusion and people wont react at all.

For instance

A314, with this mix you will notice the difference of being congruent and not being congruent the most IMO.

A314 ups your status it creates an alpha aura, the leader of the group. What would the alpha male do in most instances ? He would take the lead, he would not wait for a approach, he would approach. He would not wait to be told what to do, he would tell others what to do. Because pheromones are just a small part of a bigger picture all your other actions work in conjunction to make the picture whole. With out the whole picture people only get a brief glimps of what you trying to project.

Its the same with the ladies products. You can wear something sexy but if you hide it from the world they wont notice it. When you wear something like instant sexiness carry yourself like a sexy women. I am not saying be a slut but take care of yourself. Have a open body stance that in itself is sexy. Smile, make eye contact. All of these things while they seem simple and comman convey something about you to others.

Instant Openness another big one… It will make people more chatty but only if your open to them chatting with you. If people get mixed signals like the urge or desire to chat with you but visually see that you have no interest or will to speak to them they wont respond.

I know we get alot of shy people here so being congruent may not seem easy to some. The pheromones will help to make it easier. They do effect you as they will effect others. Sure after a while you become used to those self effects and don’t notice them as much but they do effect you. Small efforts can go a long way. If your to shy to approach or start the conversation then practice making eye contact or just looking directly at someone and smiling. You will be surprised how far a simple smile can take you.

Does this mean that pheromones wont work unless you act a certain way ? No they will still work just not to your advantage. Its the difference between the subtle hits and the harder blatant hits that you read from experienced users. Some could say…well the reactions may just be from my changing my behavior and not the pheromones. Once you use them and practice portraying a certain persona you will clearly see when the pheromones are at play and when its just your changing actions.

I can use… lets say copulins to arouse my husband. They work and 9 out of 10 times he will become aroused. He will start to show subtle signals that I pick up on because I know him so well. Now if I become more congruent with the signal I am sending. Lets say I rub up against him in passing. Get caught looking at certain parts of his anatomy to long ( my favorite cue LOL) I can change those subtle reactions he was showing into something more blatant and obvious. He will react far more strongly. Would he have reacted this way if I was not wearing the pheromones and I stared at his package and rubbed up against him ?? I hate to say it but probably 50% of the time no. We have attraction of course but we have been married a long time LOL . With the pheromones I have a 90% success rate of getting my way so to speak LOL

pheromones are just a small part of attraction. Just as a great smile, fascinating personality or hot body is just parts of a larger picture. Its when you pull all the pieces of the picture together that you make the master piece.

This is being congruent. Mones will work either way. They will effect people on some level whether your hot or not. Whether your styling or not. Congruence just separates the mild subtle reactions from the big blatant hits.

Interesting topic! One thing I think that is relevant here is that you can try to ‘act congruently’ all you like, say to a high-A314 or to a high-Androstenone pheromone signature, but if your Testosterone and/or Serotonin levels are low (see below) then it will be an uphill struggle to keep the ‘act’ up…

Do You Mind?: Aggressive Personalities, or, The Magic of Testosterone

"Tuesday, January 23, 2007
Aggressive Personalities, or, The Magic of Testosterone

Last week I talked about the role of stress hormones and the ANS in aggression. I’m particularly interested in the effects of stress on aggression because my Div III (thesis) looks at the effects of stress on another behavior, altruism. But clearly there are a lot of other factors influencing aggression. A second model of aggression is the serotonin/testosterone model.

There are many different types of aggression, from the rough and tumble play of young siblings to horrific acts of war. Sometimes it can be hard to recognize, but it’s there, nonetheless - I’m excited by the recent focus on aggression in middle school girls. While there are thousands of different ways to be aggressive, researchers have found that there are two main aggressive personality types. These types are so common and so distinctive that you can easily see them in fiction as well as real life, including in the best-selling Harry Potter novels.

James Potter is the title character’s father. Harry is an orphan, and at first, all he knows about James is that he was a star athlete, the Head Boy of his class, and that he went on to be an Auror (a glamorous sort of magical FBI agent). As Harry grows, he finds out that James wasn’t as perfect as he first seemed. James, one of the most popular boys in the school, was fond of attacking other students verbally and with magic. In one scene, he and his friend use magic to hold outcast Severus Snape upside down so his underwear is exposed for everyone to see.

Severus Snape is one of Harry’s professors. Snape went to school at the same time as James Potter, and still hates him, even though the elder Potter has been dead for over ten years. Snape uses his position of power to pick on Harry, making him serve unnecessary detentions and verbally jabbing at the young orphan’s emotional wounds. Harry is not the only one Snape attacks, however. He also picks on Harry’s classmates, other professors, and anyone else he takes a dislike to. He often attacks even when it would be to his benefit not to, making him unpopular with most of his students and peers.

James Potter exhibits what psychologists have termed controlled aggression. Controlled aggression is a dominance behavior, used by someone to advance in a social hierarchy or to maintain their high position. Controlled aggression is almost always provoked by some sort of percieved challenge by the victim. In animals, this might be a threat call or a low-ranking male’s attempt to mate with a dominant male’s female. For James Potter, it was likely Snape’s refusal to acknowledge and respect his position as the most popular boy in school. While controlled aggression is not always justified, it generally is a means to an end, rather than an end itself. This type of aggression is also called instrumental aggression.

Severus Snape, on the other hand, generally exhibits impulsive aggression. Impulsive aggression is caused by strong emotions such as anger and is aimed at hurting someone - that is, the aggression serves no other purpose. Perhaps because of its emotional nature, impulsive aggression is more likely to be physical and violent, but it by no means always is (likewise, controlled aggression can be incredibly violent). Snape generally restricts his aggression to hurtful comments and abuse of power, but he is often described as just barely restraining himself. One gets the sense that if Snape was not afraid of being kicked out of Hogwarts (or constrained by a magical debt - don’t ask), he would have physically attacked Harry a long time ago.

Obviously any two people, fictional or otherwise, will have other biological and environmental factors influencing their behavior. People can be both controlled and impulsive aggressors, sometimes even simultaneously. But let’s assume that James Potter and Severus Snape are perfect prototypes of the controlled aggressor and the impulsive aggressor. How do they differ, physiologically?

Testosterone is one of the most well-known hormones, and it is certainly the substrate most associated with aggression. Testosterone is the primary male sex hormone, and its presence drives a lot of the changes that distinguish men from women. Some people explain the higher rates of aggression in males than females by calling it a secondary sex characteristic of testosterone, like one’s voice dropping, or growing facial hair. Of course, it’s not that simple. While levels of testosterone in animals are generally correlated with aggression, many studies in humans have failed to find the expected association. A study of eighteen highly aggressive young boys who had been institutionalized for their violent behavior found no abnormalities in testosterone levels when compared to healthy controls (Constantino et al, 1993). Studies of older children and adults, looking at both extreme behaviors (in institutionalized subjects) and behaviors within the norm (children rated as more aggressive by parents, teachers and peers) have failed to find a correlation (Susman et al, 1987, Olweus et al, 1988, Inoff-Germain, 1998). At the same time, a number of studies have found something. In particular, James Dabbs published a number of prison studies showing that testosterone levels in inmates were correlated with the violence of the crime that landed them in jail as well as their behavior there.

The conflicting literature left everyone a bit confused. Several theories have been proposed to explain why testosterone and aggression are only sometimes linked, including the one I’m going to talk about here: the dominance hypothesis.

The dominance hypothesis is best explained by Mazur and Booth (1998). They define dominance behavior as action with the intent of achieving or maintaining status and the power, influence, and benefits that come with status. For simplicity’s sake, we can consider dominance behavior and controlled aggression to be essentially the same thing. Mazur and Booth propose that testosterone levels are only linked to dominance behavior and not other forms (ie, impulsive) aggression.

This hypothesis has gotten a lot of experimental support. A 1996 study (Schaal et al) looked at behavioral assessments of nearly two hundred boys. While there was no relationship between testosterone and aggression per se, there was a strong correlation with “leadership” behaviors but no correlation with physically aggressive behaviors. Also, when previous studies are re-analyzed and types of aggressive behavior parcelled out, a pattern begins to emerge. The Olweus study cited above found testosterone was higher in those who responded to provocation (“When a teacher criticizes me, I tend to answer back and protest”) but not to simple aggressiveness (“I fight with other boys at school”). In the Inoff-Germain study, they found testosterone was linked an ability to deal with their anger and express it acceptibly and non-explosively. This did not mean they were passive. There was a signifiant negative correlation between testosterone and a failure to respond to being aggressed against.

In response to these studies, a new physiological model was made, to distinguish between controlled and impulsive aggression. This model drew upon a body of work showing that low serotonin levels led to general impulsive behavior. Researchers surmised that people who were impulsively aggressive had low serotonin levels. People who exhibited dominance behavior, on the other hand, were driven by testosterone. High serotonin levels allowed them to control their impulses and to use their aggression to establish dominance. A study in chimpanzees found that unprovoked assaults and biting was associated not with high testosterone but low serotonin, and that dominance behaviors such as mounting of other males were associated with high testosterone and high serotonin levels.

Let’s go back to our two wizards. If we were able to analyze blood samples from James and Severus - or, for even better accuracy, cerebrospinal fluid - we might expect that James would have both high serotonin levels and high testosterone levels, whereas Severus would have low serotonin. The prediction of low serotonin also fits with Severus’s description as often looking better and upset. While I would hesitate to diagnose Snape as clinically depressed, his unhappiness fits with the association between low serotonin levels and depression.

Obviously it is a stretch to talk about the neurochemistry of fictional characters, but hopefully these examples have helped explain one of the current models of aggression for you."

I think alot of people assume that being alpha and being aggressive are the same thing. They are not. I know many alphas who I would not call aggressive at all and I know many aggressive males that are not alphas.

You dont have to be aggressive to be congruent even with A314. You just need to give certain simple cues thats its allright to approuch the alpha male. You also need to take on some of the leadership quailties. People tend to defer to the alpha male when they are wanting to know something or do something. They wait for cues from him. If your sitting there looking like you dont want to be approuched ( unhappy look, closed stance, wont look people in the eye, ect ect ) then your not being congruent with A314 and you wont have the best results with it. I dont consider smiling, being open and friendly, looking people in the eye, ect ect as being aggressive really.

Its all a matter of confidence and projecting that confidence with your actions. I wouldnt call it acting and in many cases just by displaying confidence you become more confident. Congruency is matching your action not acting like something your not.

Like I mentioned even shy people can give off enough simple cues to make a mix congruent. It really has nothing to do with being aggressive.

Tisha

If I understand the idea behind this, part of being congruent involves ensuring that we drink plenty of fluids, eat a healthy diet and exercise. If someone has a medical/psychophysiological condition they need to address that as best they can. Those are the things we can control.

I don’t think it is entirely true that we are what our genes make us. Freewill plays a far more important role in who we are. I do believe that we occasionally get someone here who needs therapy more than pheromones. For most people though, I think that the most important thing is the skillset.

Practicing the skill of making and maintaining eye contact with as many people as possible is an example. If someone is suffering from depression this could be beyond their capability until they get the depression under control. For most of us, however, eye contact is a skill that requires conscious practice for a short period of time and habitual conciousness for a longer period until it becomes second nature.

Posture, mannerism, and speech are other skills that can be learned. I’ve certainly found that my desire to maximize the effects that I get from pheromones has been an incentive to improve these skills.

To me being congruent means being more conscious of who I am and what my goals are and what I need to do to get there.

Great post Visionary. This is the kind of info I was hoping to accumulate in this thread. Thanks.

Visionary, what a great post! I really agree that no matter how you define alpha, you can’t just turn it on. Some have got it…probably due to their natural hormone levels…and the rest (majority) have their work cut out for them. My doubt is that there is definitely a feedback loop between your success + happiness + stress levels to your hormone levels, the reason why really successful people come across as alpha without even trying.

I think if someone is naturally not an alpha then they can fake it by imitating the behaviors and body language of a natural alpha until their hormone levels catch up to make those traits natural. Until that happens they will always seem incongruent/uncomfortable in their skin and come across as posers.

Great post Renny, all too true!

+Reps.

Being congruent and matching your signature will not only aid in the pheros effectiveness but it will also give you that little boost that makes you feel great and more confidents in yourself.

Thanks Baldman, what does “being congruent” mean to you. I’m finding that I learn something from everyone who posts to this thread. I like the idea that Phoenix posted about… being true to yourself first.

Thanks everyone for the reps…I’m glad so many feel strongly on this subject.

To me being congruent to the pheromones you’re wearing isn’t even close to being fake.

To me its the ability to let go of any inhibitions you may have that are an obstacle to you being at your best, only having a little friend (the pheros) to act as a sort of safety net and reinforce, to yourself and others, what it is that you are projecting.

IMO being congruent is an art that needs to be injected into the situation but remain very subtle. Just be yourself but ‘lose yourself’ to the moment knowing the pheromones have your back and are working with you. If you see congruency as meaning you need to be something you aren’t then you won’t get very far at all. Like I said congruency is about losing inhibitions and just being at your best in a way that suits the pheromones you are wearing at any given time. This needs to be done within the confines of who and what you are already, going further will only result in you feeling more inhibited and you’ll lose congruency completely.

A few examples of a good use of congruency:

Ammo (Sexy) - Don’t go out there with a “You’ll be lucky to get me… Now impress me” attitude. Just throw in a cheeky smile, hold eye contact slightly longer than you normally would and don’t worry about what she’ll think about it. If you show no doubt in your actions she’ll have no reason at all to doubt them either. It won’t even enter her mind. NEVER try and impress her with stories or showing off. It’ll blow you out of the water everytime. For women who are worth your time… There is no better lubricant than just being yourself… And being happy with it.

A314 (strong and confident) - Keep your head held high, watch your body language. Normally self confidence and good strong body language seems enough to let let the A314 do its thing. Another important part though is what you DON’T do. Don’t try and control a situation and be overbearing, just be comfortable in your own skin and let anything inhibiting you to that end melt away, don’t second guess the things you say and just lose yourself to it knowing the A314 is picking up the slack.

Again, In my honest opinion, for congruency to be the least bit effective it needs to remain very subtle, otherwise its just going to look like your trying too hard and you’ll get nowhere. Remain yourself while injecting very small gestures here and there that reinforce the effects of the pheros you’re wearing.

Thats just my opinion… And you know what they say about opinions…

They’re like arseholes… Everyone has one and they all stink. :slight_smile:.

Exactly :smiley:

Excellant post Baldman Reps

Tisha

Congruence. It seems so essential to the science of pheromones that it is elemental. Like when people use homeopathic treatments. They must take into account personality, race, etc. for the treatments to be effective. Efficacy is achieved by taking the person as a whole into consideration. That’s congruence, and the same thing applies to pheromones.
After using the collection I have for over a month I think that the issue of congruence is unavoidable. The whole pheromone science is both biological and anthropological. I know there have been previous posts discussing pheremones and their influence on natural selection in human evolution. The difference between us now and the cavemen I guess would be intention. We are conciously adding these pheromones to our signature to actively influence others in some way.

The factors you guys have been talking about are so important to consider when using these pheros. I think what everyone is doing here is grossly underestimated. The course of everyone’s lives has changed in some small way when they come in contact with the pheromones.

Renny et. al. I totally agree with you on all your points. I’m certainly going to start documenting my reactions more carefully to coincide with the points you list. I really want to take it in a more scientific direction.

Also, I really would like to find a post listing the breakdown of ingredients in the products. That would really help me understand the reactions I’m getting (self and others!).

Those are all very good and informative posts that are really worthy to read!

The congruence is a very interesting and important point for phero testers. I think that only a few product will required alot of conformity between the messages given by pheromones and the actual personality of the wearer. Like most of us already know, with A314 for example, you really need to try to be the leader and have more authority so the product will really help. It is just an weak enhancer if there is no effort.

However, most products doesn’t require much of congruence. Like instant shine will always work toward others unless you look extremely depressed, which counter the positive effects. Instant openness will always put people in a talking/thinking mood, unless you zap ur mouth and don’t reply to others at all. So with most product, being yourself will get you better results in my opinion, since the pheros lead and steer your personality, not the other way around unlike A314.

Just a few thoughts about 1.) persona, kind of similar and same direction as many other members who just posted.

A lot of what pheromones do is speak to our unconscious mind about a given STATE. How we package ourselves, how we hold ourselves, dress ourselves, act should be in some congruent (close to the same) as the message of our pheromone statement. Or it just won’t TAKE.

All the best,

April

Great posts, folks.

What I’m really interested in here (being relatively new to Androtics, but not to mones) is how much the results I see are from self-effects (affecting my own congruency) and how much is truly down to affecting directly those around me through their sensory apparatus.

I sometimes feel that in my case, alot comes from either the self-effects or my observations/interpretations of what I observe that then spurs me on. “That big guy is giving me more respect than normal because he’s moving out of my way because of the A314 he can smell on me” or “he’s moving out of my way because I am approaching him in a way that is congruent with A314 - assertive, alpha”.

Congruency does come from within, but I sometimes feel that certain mones can increase congruency in me, but there does have to be something there to begin with.

Hmmm.:roll_eyes:

Alot of people ask that question. I personally think, does it matter?

Results are results.

Great post. Subtle reps to you :cool: